Scholar8200:

So you believe Heaven is Abraham's bosom?

You are truly confused,
Now just show me where the Bible said righteous in Abraham's blossom will be transferred to heaven.
By the way are they before going to the heaven?
Thanks.

Scholar8200:


?Where did I say that Abraham was in Heaven before Jesus came

Hmmmm na waoo, that means the story is a parable an illustration.
Obviously Abraham wasn't in heaven when Jesus told the story.
Check footnote of Jerusalem Bible to see it's a story.
Stop running from pillar to post.

I have asked you before,
Why did Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom?

Must a Camel pass through the needle's eye for a rich man to make the kingdom?
No, it's practically impossible.
So Jesus uses illustrations, stories to teach people. Sometimes the stories are exaggerated or hyperbolic.

Scholar8200:


?Where did I say that Abraham was in Heaven before Jesus came

Hmmmm na waoo, that means the story is a parable an illustration.
Obviously Abraham wasn't in heaven when Jesus told the story.
Check footnote of Jerusalem Bible to see it's a story.
Stop running from pillar to post.

I have asked you before,
Why did Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom?

Must a Camel pass through the needle's eye for a rich man to make the kingdom?
No, it's practically impossible.
So Jesus uses illustrations, stories, sometimes the stories are exaggerated or hyperbolic.

analice107:

The problem you JW have is the doctrine of Materialism. Eternal life is there all ready, but were man will spend it is the reason Christ came.
When we shed off the flesh, there's a life to live.

Apst Paul talks about it as Mortality put on immortality.
This flesh is mortality, we right now in this flesh are not yet living the life of immortality because, we are still in the Material, physical realm, but when we die, we shall move to the realm of immortality. There no one dies. That's when or Immortal souls will start it's eternal living. Where is the bone of contention.

What is the eternal life which Christ came to give? It's eternal life in heaven with God in his Kingdom.
not in hellfire with Satan and his Angels. Christ came to save us from the eternal life in hell. Kapish?

Luke 20:, 34-36
... And Jesus said to them, The people of this world and present age marry and are given in marriage; But those who are considered worthy to gain that other world and that future age and to attain to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage; For they cannot die again, but they are angel-like and equal to angels. And being like Angel sharers in the resurrection, they are sons of God.

But whichever way you look at it man is mortal hence Christ's sacrifice to grant man immortality.

Bible portion that prove man is mortal.

Bible > Psalms > Chapter 9 > Verse 20
◄ Psalm 9:20 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Strike them with terror, LORD; let the nations know they are only mortal.

New Living Translation
Make them tremble in fear, O LORD. Let the nations know they are merely human. Interlude

English Standard Version
Put them in fear, O LORD! Let the nations know that they are but men! Selah

New American Standard Bible
Put them in fear, O LORD; Let the nations know that they are but men. Selah.

King James Bible
Put them in fear, O LORD: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Put terror in them, LORD; let the nations know they are only men. Selah

International Standard Version
Make them afraid, LORD, Let the nations know that they are only human. Interlude

NET Bible
Terrify them, LORD! Let the nations know they are mere mortals! (Selah)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Establish a lawgiver for them, who shall instruct the nations that they are children of men.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Strike them with terror, O LORD. Let the nations know that they are [only] mortal. [Selah]


Different translations but same meaning.
Mortal, human, children of men, all showing man is motarl.

analice107:


Jessicha, how did Cain got to know that his sin wasn't hidden? God revealed that to him, how? Because the blood of Abel cried for Vengeance, but from where? Could it be from here?
Revelation 6:9 When the Lamb broke open the fifth seal, I saw at the foot of the altar the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed for [adhering to] the Word of God and for the testimony they had borne.

And, does blood have a voice? Could it also mean that because the life force which is the spirit of every man is in the blood? Lev. 1:14.

Genesis 4:6,7 clearly shows that Cain was already aware of sins and that God is displeased with him.
Verse 7 shows that after God's warning he went ahead and killed his brother.

Again it was not Abel's cry that made Cain realize his sins, it was God himself.
4:16 says after he was made to realize his sins and the consequences he went away from God's presence.

JMAN05:


none shud pay. heb 7:12

Are you a carpenter my brother?



You just nailed it!!!

Scholar8200:

Yes, we will rule the Earth at the Millenial reign
Revelation 20:1-3

Before then, they ALL will be in Heaven Revelation 7:9, Rev 19:9

Let me pretend I agree with you, but the Bible said they were bought from earth with the blood of the lamb.

Is possible for one to make heaven when the lamb has not been slaughtered?
Remember we are talking about Abraham.
Who was long dead before Christ came and sacrificed himself.

Scholar8200:
which portion?

What about that Bible portion that suggested hell is abyss or bottomless pit?

Scholar8200:
Did you not read that Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire? Realise that Hell/Sheol has the bottomless pit (Revelations 9:1,2) as a part.

You said hell/Sheol has the bottomless pit.

That's not what the Bible said, hell/Sheol is the world of the dead and it's not a physical place.

While abyss is a different place, not a place of the dead. A bottomless pit, or place of restraint.
Someone maybe alive and be in abyss, when it was opened in revelations 9:1-3 it was figurative locusts that came out not dead people.
Chapter of Revelations shows that satan will be cast and chained into abyss and will be released after the one thousand year reign of Christ.

Scholar8200:
Abraham's bosom is not heaven.

Matthew 27:52 read and learn
What is the abyss? The pit is one of the synonyms for Sheol!
http://biblehub.com/strongs/hebrew/7585.htm abyss means bottomless, an adjective describing the pit!

Abyss is not the same as hell,hades,Sheol,grave or the world of mankind where even righteous ones are according to the scriptures.

When it was opened in revelations 9:1,2 it was even locust that came out interestingly the Bible didn't mention dead people.

You mix everything together.

Satan will even be cast into abyss before the one thousand year reign of Christ.

Scholar8200:
Those who were martyred in Revelations 6 were not found in Abraham's bosom but in Heaven. The Innumerable company of those redeemed in Revelations 7 were found at the Throne, not Abraham's bosom. Now Bible speaks of the resurrection of saints after Christ resurrected, did they just resurrect and went back to the grave? NO!

So you are saying the righteous ones has started resurrecting to heaven even from Abraham's time?

Scholar8200:
The context in Psalm 9:17 obviously shows (as Strong's concordance ) that Sheol here is more than the grave but the bottomless pit.

And what about that portion suggests that Sheol or world of the dead is a bottomless pit?
Na waoo

I

Scholar8200:
Before the resurrection of Christ.

Abraham wasn't in heaven before Christ death, that one is certain.
The door of going to heaven was opened to humans after the death of Christ (John 3:13)shows that no man has ascended to heaven except Jesus that came from heaven.

Revelations 5:9,10 shows that Christ was slaughtered and with his BLOOD he bought people from earth and made to be a kingdom and priest and they are to rule the earth!
Stop misinterpreting the Bible.

Scholar8200:
Did you not read that Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire? Realise that Hell/Sheol has the bottomless pit (Revelations 9:1,2) as a part.

The Bible didn't say these things, you are the implying it is so.
When the abys was opened (the Bible is talking about abys here not hell/Sheol as you said) according to verse 3 what came out?
Did the dead people came out? If it is the grave,Sheol or hell as you said.
The Bible told us locusts not dead ones or people.
Read your Bible well.

[quote author=Babayoutoomuch post=44934434][/quote]

Did you read my post at all?

K

Scholar8200:
Interesting, resurrected as spirits!

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Corinth 15:51-54

So those who dont sleep will be changed to spirit? Vs 53 shows the change, mortal flesh puts on immortality. NOBODY will be changed to spirit.

Must you breed confusion?
The Bible shows that flesh and blood cannot dwel in heaven and you are saying your flesh will now put immortality and go to heaven.

The last two verses shows man is mortal and must change or put on immortality.

And you are saying it's flesh, are you going to heaven with a physical but immortal body?

You like mixing things up, take it easy.
Gehena is different from lake of fire.

Scholar8200:
That the fire is not quenched is repeated in Revelation 14:10,11 so is that place also Gehenna?

10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 14:10,11

Scholar8200:

Ezekiel 28:2
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God;

While the body of the message may have a dual application, error starts when we choose to ignore one of the focus.

Does that take away the fact that the portion has a broader application or grander fulfilment?

Scholar8200:

Take a deep breath and read below:


And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark9:47,48

The story of Lazarus shows where Christ had in mind! Besides, since Jesus use of parables was to reveal things hid from the foundation of the world(has NOTHING to do with the pharisees and the unfortunate jews), I dont see what you are still trying to prove.

My brother that book of mark, Jesus was refering to Gehenna.
You don start again.
Read that place very well, before starting the same yesterday's assertions of yours all over again.

Scholar8200:
Abraham's bosom is not the final abode of the righteous, that is what Reveations 19,21,22 reveals! So this point is irrelevant.

Una don change am again, what of the hellfire or the rich man?
Another hellfire still dey?

Scholar8200:
At resurrection, we are raised with an incorruptible, immortal body. See 1 Corinth 15 and 1 Thess 4.

Stop deceiving yourself there the Bible talks about being resurrected as a spirit, if we are spirits whats the essence of resurrecting people to become spirits again?

dorox:


Of what purpose is the resurrection if at death we never truly die but just shed our mortal bodies?

Resurrection means to bring back to life or to revive, that's why we entertain the hope of resurrection because we know that even if we die we will live again if we do Gods will.
Maybe they are telling us that's a different type of resurrection. Lol, my eyes have seen it all in nairaland, like they are now telling us that hellfire is now a spiritual fire.

dorox:

They are trying very hard to avoid these difficult questions about hell and what it says about their notion of God.

Abi you no see am like that?
Jesus is life and it's God's wish and will that all men be saved, that's he sent his son Jesus and made other provisions to give us life.
If i refuse to live it won't be fair if God now decides to give me life by force or now decides i live forever just to torment me or burn me continuously for aeons of years, forever.
Its not fair to me and surely it would be disturbing to any reasonable person.

Sarang:


Oh! I actually respected you cos I thought you are learned.
You don't know that (?) signifies question mark?
or just trying to maneuver my writing?
I was asking you who told you that Jehovah's witnesses believes that Jesus is God.

oops! You surprises me with your lies.
even rocking my name up and down with another misinterpretation and lies..

Bros abeg.
I am a Jw till thy kingdom come.

Thats how they behave, they can twist even what you have shown them in the Bible just to discredit the JWs. They don't know they are doing themselves.
People are already begining see what they are, haters and liers.

analice107:

What if we look at it this way?
Am a mother, Angela is my daughter. I discover Angie pilfer, I call Angie in and tell her, my daughter, whatever I have is yours, anytime you need anything, come to me, pls don't take what belongs to others without letting them know. When they loose their stuff, it hurts them because they need their stuff. Even if it's mine, still tell me, I won't stop you from take g it, just let me know, beside stealing is very wrong, it brings shame and People would find it hard to trust you, and you need people to trust, pls my daughter don't again okay? Angie says, yes mummy.
But anytime Angie sees something and when no one is around, she will take it. Little by little it grew. When she was too young to understand the consequences, I talked to her, repeatedly. When she grew older I spanked her for others to see am not condoning her pilfering. Yet, this child won't stop. Everyday neighbours cry out because Angie haven followed their kids to their houses Angie had stolen their money.
My home is now known as a home of thieves. Now anytime something gets missing, all fingers are pointed towards my house.
One day, I couldn't take it anymore, I wear my shorts and tie my wrapper firmly on top of it and say, Angie today go be today. Enough of the embarrassment and shame then I get down on her real good. Call me whatever you like, that's your business.

Let me tell you something about my home. You do not, I repeat, do not, pick anything be it money or any other thing and bringing it home to my mother's house. When I was less than 10 was when I learned that lesson, I picked money,
No, I didn't steal it, I picked it, and I thought I was a good child so rough it back home a showed my mum, since it was the first time, My mum followed me to where I said I picked it, she said drop it there, I did, we went back home. Another time, I picked money again, I knew if I showed her, I was going to lose it, so I had it. I bought something with it and I was caught. Gracious Lord!!!! Till I leave this earth I won't forget what my mum did to me. What you described is minimal. She tied me up with a robe and actually put that pepper in my Anus and eyes and kept me in the hot sun, all the while screaming on top of her voice, no child of mine will be a thief. But I was crying and saying, I didn't steal it, she said, you will steal if you don't stop now.
When I was released, I advised myself against picking other things. Till this day, I don't pick things on the road.

Your mum actually rub pepper on your anus?
That's a bit harsh, she may have thought she's doing you good after all.
But a considerate mum doesn't have to go that far to purnish a child.

Though she set you free at the end.

But then we are talking about eternal torment or burning someone in hell.

Is it morally justified for Almighty God to create a permanent place to burn people for a sin committed within few years spent on earth?

What will God gain by burning people? Nothing!
What will he gain if he simply destroys them? Absolutely nothing!
Again God frown at the idea of burning people, he even condemned people that did and said it never was in his plans or never planned to do so!

Why resurrect sinners judge them and throw them into hell?
God isn't a sadist.

If refuse life or refuse to live by rejecting Jesus and God's provisions for life, will it be fair and morally right for God to insist I must be giving life only to be tormented?

How will I veiw a God who make effort to turn me into spirit and set spiritual fire to burn me forever? Cruel?

We are created in the image of God, meaning we can reflect his qualities or act like him.
If we can't go to the extreme just to punish our disobedient children, How much more God who is a perfection of love?

analice107:

Pls remind me the Ops question again.

Sorry network didn't allow me read your other coments, i got it now.

analice107:

Hahahahahahahaha. This guy. Why won't you talk about people enjoying in heaven for once? After all, they were all given the same opportunity to choose. One chose hellfire so he will burn. Why is that God's fault? See us here right now talking about this issue, why do you refuse to Accept Jesus and choose heaven? Why are you holding so tightly on hellfire? Do you think anything about it will change?
What business do you have with hellfire? Was it created for you? Are you Satan or a demon? Well, if you yoke yourself with them, where ever they go, you will go. Lekwa

You are not answering the op,s questions, you are rather compounding it.

DoctorAlien:


I no wan go that kind Heaven o

He shy away from answering these two questions ooo:

1: According to Ezekiel 28:13-18, Satan will be burnt to ashes. How is it you claim he will be alive burning forever? Or can ashes be alive?

2: Jesus said it's easier for a Camel to pass through the needle's eye than for a rich man to make the kingdom.
If parables are to be taken literally,
Does it mean a Camel can possibly pass through the needle's eyes?

Was Jesus saying that a Camel must pass through the eyes of a needle for a wealthy man to make the kingdom?

DoctorAlien:


I no wan go that kind Heaven o

My brother the thing tire me ooo

DoctorAlien:


Will eternity for righteous people be such that the wicked (supposedly also alive forever) will be within earshot disturbing their communion with GOD with their constant cries and be them begging for water?

The rich man begged to have somebody be sent to warn his brothers on earth. Who will the wicked beg to be sent and to whom are they going to be sent?

Ask him ooo, who will the wicked be begged to sent to and to who are they going to be sent to?

J

Scholar8200:
Go take your Bible serious. The rich man asked for water to cool his tongue and even requested Lazarus deep his finger!
Jesus said these, not me!

Those are parable not real event.
According to John 3:13 Jesus says no man has ascended to heaven except him that came down from heaven.
So neither Lazarus nor Abraham was in heaven when Jesus narrated the story.
If jesus story were to be taken literal it means someone in hellfire can see someone in heaven.
It also means someone in hellfire can as well talk to someone in heaven.

Scholar8200:
I see! So the fire will annihilate man but preserve worms alive!!!

You and worm again, where did you see worm?
Worm is in Gehenna not in hell.
Stop mixing things up.
So you can understand the Bible!