₦airaland Forum

@ Enigma,

I sent you an urgent PM, kindly reply ASAP. Thanks.

Bidam: On the contrary. I am rather open to learning than you are.Anyway stick to your beliefs.let God be the judge of your faith.don't always hang on the opinions of the crowd to get the loudest ovation.The way to Jesus is narrow and lonely not wide with popularity.That's my understanding of who God is.

You always talk as if God just drop from heaven and speak to people. THE WORD is there for us to know the mind of God. The Spirit uses the platform of the word to communicate with us. As you read this my comment, say you heard a voice telling you to go bath in the river 7 times like Naaman, won't you ask such spirit if you are a Leper? Because the last time I checked, it was a Leper that was told to go bath 7 times in the river.

My point is, the word is completed for and when you go beyond what is written, you break scriptures you claim to uphold. This is a simple truth! There's nowhere in scripture that the NEW TESTAMENT believers were COMMANDED TO TITHE but rather, it was dis-annulled. I have shown you many scripture that THE OLD COVENANT\TESTAMENT is completely DIFFERENT from the NEW COVENANT\TESTAMENT.

When you step back to listen to the Lord more and reducing your time here, please study the word more and let God use the word to guide you. Everything written in the word is NOT everything for our APPLICATION. Bless you!

Ishilove: If they need more candidates then maybe you should nominate yourself, striky durling

Or make me sef nominate myself join. I can't understand the need for more candidates when we already have more than 3 candidates.

christemmbassey: ;Dlatest edition of matt23:23

Man of God, I have told you in the past and will repeat it again - na comedian you suppose go do ooo. LWKMD!!! ...real hard.

^ Yes, I know. Stepped out and replying immediately.

Bidam: Go siddon..If you have words to say NOT against the Spirit,Tithing is explicitly and unequivocally a clear biblical injunction so i am not going against the words of Jesus(Mathew 23:23)once again i will rather believe Jesus conviction in my heart for all scriptures are given by His inspiration and is profitable for conviction unto righteousness.

I give you TWO versions of Matthew 23:23 in a zoom mode.

1. Jesus talking to the SCRIBES & PHARISEES in this mode - SCRIBE & PHARISEE version:

New American Standard Bible
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.



2. Jesus talking to the APOSTLES & THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, that wasn't birth yet at this time - APOSTLES & CHURCH version:

New American Standard Bible
"Woe to you, Apostles and the Church\Body of Christ, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

How does it read in your ears?

And this gospel of ANTI-tithe shall spread all over nations, then shall the tithe captives be set free! I will add to your write up later @ OP.

christemmbassey: bros, i tire o. Gdmorning, how's God's blessings over there?

Already blessed, just manifesting and walking in that blessing. Not trying to pay tithe to be blessed and not expecting windows of heaven to be opened because it was already opened over Christ and since then, never closed on believers. Glory to God!

DrummaBoy: Internet is messing up. U will find it when you return

No, but I can check on my phone though. I will see if it's something I have to reply from phone or wait till I return from work. Enjoy Your Friday bro. Thanks.

@ D'boy,

I haven't received the email yet. I guess I have to go now. I will reply from my phone at work. Take care bro.

christemmbassey: so tithe money has taken d place of d holy spirit? Wonders shall never end.

idnoble135: @Goshen, issokay. But it wont do any good trying to unlearn me what i know
You too have a great friday!

LOLZ. It means you don't have open mind on discussing issues. You believe what you know is what is right and so do I. Then we have to look at it together with an open mind. Anyway, I will still reply when I return from work.

^ Okay bro. I will get but getting ready to step out. I will wait for you and reply immediately. Thanks.

It's all because of Christ, His sacrifice, the cross and the finished works. Now, God is 'reconciling' the whole world to himself!

Bidam: The Spirit whispers and convicts; the enemy yells and condemns.The Spirit appeals to truth; the enemy to fear.The Spirit asks to be invited; the enemy demands to be listened to and obeyed.The Spirit invokes love,power,and a sound mind;the enemy fosters separation,self-righteousness and confusion.

As for the tithes,I'd rather believe the Holy Spirit conviction in my heart than a thousand yells and condemnation against it.Let God be the judge of my conscience.Thanks.

E be like say that new book wey you dey read na eim you get these ^ words from and you wan come take that one cajole people here abi? Anyway, those words are heavy and right but the final usage and intent is wrong sir - The Spirit will never tell you to do what is against the word as he uses the word as a platform for leading. Prove all things and hold unto that which is good is not out of place. Abeg try again later!

@ idnoble135,

I will attend to ALL your post when I return from work today again - you're taking much of time from me to attend tothis topic but it's okay. At least we are teaching and looking at scriptures together. I will have enough time for you and your post but it's going to be like same time of yesterday. You might be getting ready to go to bed when I'm ready to explain with scriptures. If I start replying now at this time where I reside, I will be late for work. Enjoy Your Friday!

Glamglam: So you are saying, Christians are not meant to fall under anointing? But during deliverance, the possessed could do all manner of things?

Also, it's quite interesting how you interpreted Acts 2 saying the Apostles were not acting drunk. Really the Bible can be interpreted in different ways to different readers

So you are saying, Christians are not meant to fall under anointing?

Who is a Christian and what spirit is knocking a Christian down? What I'm saying here is simple - A Christian can consciously bow down in worship to God, cry tear...of joy, roll on the floor etc as the Holy Spirit leads but some spirit knocking a Christian down? Why would the Holy Spirit knock you down? For what reason? Those I found being knocked down in scriptures are demon possessed and unbelievers, not Christians.

But during deliverance, the possessed could do all manner of things?

This is where we have issues. I don't believe neither do I accept the teachings that Christians can have the Holy Spirit in them and at the same time be possessed by demons. That's an insult to the Holy Spirit and the finished works of Christ. I'm not talking about just a church goer or and unbelievers but a Christian. A Christian is already DELIVERED and then not left empty but now the Holy Spirit reside within.

Who hath deliverED us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. Colossians 1:13


Also, it's quite interesting how you interpreted Acts 2 saying the Apostles were not acting drunk. Really the Bible can be interpreted in different ways to different readers

If they were LITERALLY drunk with wine or ogogoro, then Peter lied under the Holy Spirit. The people around didn't understand what was happening to the Apostle and hence, they 'assume' it to be drunkenness. If you're saying the Apostles were literally drunk with wine or ogogoro, then you validate with scriptures.

New International Version
Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."

New Living Translation
But others in the crowd ridiculed them, saying, "They're just drunk, that's all!"

English Standard Version
But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

New American Standard Bible
But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine."

Acts 2:13

AND Peter said, replying to their mockery,

New International Version
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! Acts 2:14-15

If the Apostles were LITERALLY drunk, then Peter and the scriptures lied. Those were mockery statement not the actual that the disciples were drunk. That's not my own 'interpretation' but what it is and written in scripture. You have it ^ up there.

Candour: Drummaboy

I had to cut short my self imposed ban from nairaland to applaud your treatise up there.If only christians will put in their thinking caps.becoming believers does not equate to handing our brains over to super men in the mold of MOG.

When churches fall over themselves to compete with the secular world, i have to agree a strange spirit has taken over.

Coincidentally, i have a discussion tommorow with an area pastor of the RCCG whom my sweet mum and younger sister reported my anti tithe stance to.i really want to hear what new revelation he has on this issue.

Thumbs up once again bro.

God bless u plenty

LWKMD!!!

I can tell you what will happen in that discussion. I have made one RCCG pastor to quit the organization. The brother was my mentor when I was young in the Lord, when I just came to Christ. I called him from the States here and spent like 2 hours with him on phone and lectured someone who was and sometimes is still my mentor. By the time I was through with my teachings with him, I completely agreed with me and I told him to go study more on what I have said. The next 2-3 weeks after he had also studied the subject again, he called me that he quit the RCCG because his conscience will not allow him continue to teach tithe while he remains a pastor there.

@ Candour,

What will happen is when you do have the discussion with the area pastor is, he will be convinced and even his eyes will be open to the truth but because he also get his salary from such tithe; he might try to use subtle words to calm you down and try to cover up for RCCG and the leadership. You must endeavour to let him understand, holding the word in unrighteousness is deceit and such should not be mentioned among God's people.

We hope to get the feedback though.

^ You my fewd just like to dey give me plenty job to do sha. You too like me o. Abeg make you leaf Obadiah777 make him dey receive breeze for now. I've been reading his recent heretic statements, we go deal with him when the time comes. Make you relax.

idnoble135: And then, i'd add this finally. Falling under the anointing can happen in three ways. I would use a bible illustration to explain what i mean.
Paul was called of God to preach the goodnews. He is of God. This is the first category. So, falling under the anointing can be of God.
But some people preached another gospel, foreign to that of the Lord Jesus. Gal 1:8-9. Thats of the devil, its a fake of the real thing. This section could also be likened that some of the "falling under the anointing" are by diabolical means.
Then next, some preached, not because they felt God leading them to, or because the devil commissioned them. It is out of their own will. Phil 1:15,16.
Can we say because there are some gospels that are of the devil or preached by men, we should abandon the gospel altogether? No! Same way with "falling under the anointing".
Paul talked about the "demonstration of the Spirit and of power". 1 Cor 2:4. He also talks about the "manifestation of the Spirit". 1 COR 12:7.
The Spirit of God can manifest as He pleases. Dont try to put the Spirit into your box of reasoning. Dont try to set up defined ways that you expect Him to operate.
And to add, many people would often criticize what they have not experience. Rather than just criticizing, lets go back and wait on the Lord. He will reveal Himself to us.

Like I said, I'm never against manifestation\demonstration and gifts of the Spirit but does that include knocking believers down every now and then? When Christians are FILLED with the Spirit, the evidence is what was listed as the result or FRUITS of the Spirit and among such is SELF control, Galatians 5:22-23 . It is not even the Holy Spirit that controls you but you yourSELF controlling yourself by the help of the Holy Spirit - that's why it is called SELF control.

You will NEVER read the Holy Spirit COME UPON in the New Testament aside from the book of Acts (Acts being a transitional book). In this case, transition from the Spirit COMING UPON to the Spirit being within. You read Peter being FILLED with the Holy Spirit in the same Acts 4:8. Can Holy Spirit coming UPON do a FILLING? The Holy Spirit coming upon is for specific purpose and when such purpose is accomplished in the OT, the Spirit departs. That's not the case with the NT, He resides within and operates\flow from within and does not knock us down.

idnoble135: And then, to add, the anointing is strong. The glory is awesome.
It is possible to fall under the anointing. The power could be so strong that people fall, because many a time, the anointing comes so strongly that you just can stand it. Its that tangible!
Look at Daniel, he had a taste of the anointing and could not stand it. In his words, he said, "there remained no strength in me..... then i was in a deep sleep sleep on my face and my face towards the ground". He could not stand the power. Read up the story in Daniel chapter 10.
Then, lets make comparison. The three synoptic gospel contains the account of the transfiguration on the mount.
Check the scriptures in Matthew 17, Mark 9 from verse 2, and Luke 9, starting from verse 28. And we are told that the glory overshadowed them.
Literally telling us, that they were enveloped in the anointing. And we have a feel of it by Jesus himself. And with this, we may say it was something regular that happened in the ministry of Jesus.
The gospel of st. John tells us that when Jesus was to be arrested, a brief conversation came up. It goes thus:
"4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went
out and asked them, “Who is
it you want?”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And
Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they
drew back and fell to the
ground." (NIV).
Did you read that? Bible said said they fell to the ground. That means, something did happen. The soldiers could not have fallen to the ground just like that. They did not come to play. And observe the word "FELL".
So thats it bro, falling under the anointing is real and is for us today.

The people that fell, are they Christians? After they fell, did that change anything or they still went ahead to carry out their evil intentions to betray\arrest Christ? They weren't Christians and like I said, you will never find Christians in scriptures falling not nothing. They (Christians) are the carrier of the anointing, they don't fall like crazy! Why don't the men of God themselves that claims to carry this anointing upon them also fall - they should be the one falling since they are the ones the anointing is coming upon first. All people Jesus delivered, were possessed and could do anything like falling into fire, cutting themselves, harm themselves - such is not said of Christians.

idnoble135: @Goshen, we can use the word anointing and power interchangeably. Because bible also uses the word "power" in the description that it is in us. Ephe 3:20.
So like i said, the old testament experienced the anointing upon because the Power of God came upon them to achieve some extra ordinary feat like samson or to prophesy like the old prophets of old.
And in the new testament also, the anointing dwells in us which is far greater than that of the old testament because the anointing dwells in us. I use the word greater because the anointing in us abides in us forever, unlike that of the old testament whereby the anointing comes upon them for a season.
Having said this, i would now refer us to James 5:16b, which says, "The
earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of
a righteous man
makes tremendous
power available
[dynamic in its
working]".
So you see, it talks about some thing different. We know the power of God is in us. But we here we are told that we need to tarry in prayer to access this power. This brings it me that, the ability of the old testament(i.e) the anointing that was talked about is still available. We did not need to do anything to recieve the anointing within(provided we are believers), but we are told we would tarry in prayer to access the anointing upon.
So this indicates two levels of empowerment.
Jesus himself recieved the Holy Spirit. Luke 3:22. But he went to the wilderness again to fast and pray. And then, note what the scripture says, "And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit". Luke 4:14
The anointing upon is vital for those who have recieved a special ministry(like the ministry Paul talked about in Col 4:17) of the Lord.
So that explains that the anointing is within us. But there is also a special anointing(that of the old testament) also that is still relevant to our time.
*still typing*

As I meditate to discuss this topic with you, the LORD wanted me to ask you these questions:

1. Why do you need two anointing - the one upon and the one within?

2. What does the anointing coming upon does that the one within does not do?

3. What did Christ meant when he said, "out of your belly shall flow rivers of living waters"?

idnoble135: @Goshen, you talked about asking the Holy Spirit to move.
Though i dont do that, i dont have any problem with that.
In Gen 1, we are told the Spirit of God moved.
"....And the Spirit of God moved over the surface of the deep" Gen 1:2
We clearly know that the Spirit of God is also omnipresent. Psalm 139:7. So why did the Spirit had to move even though He was present? Because, that is what precede any great work or blessing that God would do. God did not say anything till the Spirit moved. And it is important to note that it is move of the Spirit that started the creation process. So it is safe to say, if our meetings would yield great fruits, the Spirit of God must be given liberty. Some pastors can say, "Spirit move...." a thousand times. To me, nothing is wrong with that. I see it as an invitation to the Spirit of God to have His course in the meeting. And some pastors dont need to say such. But we must bear in mind that God relates with us all in diverse yet impartial way.

When Pastors say things such as Holy Spirit MOOOOOVEEEEE. Such is to tell the Holy Spirit at their (pastor's) will rather than the Spirit's will.

New Living Translation
It is the one and only Spirit who distributes all these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have. 1 Corinthians 12:11

New Living Translation
And God confirmed the message by giving signs and wonders and various miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit whenever he chose. Hebrews 2:4

The gifts and its manifestation is not in the hand of the pastor or carrier to deceives when such gift functions, but the Holy Spirit decides. That ^ up there is scriptures for you.

superior1: Acts 6:6
They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you

2 Timothy 1:6
6For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

Laying of hands is very scriptural and useful in dedication, commission and impartation of the anointing




Some ministers do get it wrong in their manner of ministeration. I remember reading somewhere how Benny Hinn got rebuked by an elder to stop throwing his suit at people to impart them with the anointing. We can't however throw away the baby with bath water. Ministers do lay hand on people asking for Holy Spirit impartation or commissioning them for the work of the ministry. It is very scriptural.

1 Timothy 4:14
Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you

2 Timothy 1:6
6For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.




No, i disagree on this. On the day of Pentecost like i stated earlier, we have reasons to believe the Apostles got DRUNK with the anointing and the impartation of the Holy Spirit so much some Jews said they have taken NEW wine (New wine most probably intoxicates more). If the Apostles were merely speaking divers of languages and conducted themselves properly, they wont be called drunk men (talkless of being drunk with new wine). A drunk man do not only fall but roll on the floor, stagger, laugh etc.

Acts 2
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.


One of the attributes of the Holy Spirit that we can deduce from the bible is that He Manifests, He shows His presence and He cant be limited to human explanation of being poised.

Acts 2
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

To Elijah, He came like a still small voice but on the day of Pentecost, he came like the rushing of a MIGHTY wind,
1. Rush

2. Mighty wind

3. With audible sound
In today's vocab, we will say He descended like a Tsunami That is sure different from Elijah's experience and yet it is the same Holy Spirit.

I have split you comments into 3 and will respond according.

1. You quotes where the Apostles laid hands on the men appointed - did we read those men were knocked down? I'm not disputing laying of hand here but we discussing falling down, so called falling under anointing or slain in the spirit.

2. Again, I'm not disputing laying on of hand to impart spiritual gifts and commission people for ministry but when such is done, does it say men that hands was laid on start to fall and somersault?

3. Again, you are reading Acts 2 in the superlative. The men were mocking them. If Peter could stand up and say they (the Apostles) were NOT drunk; it means they WERE NOT DRUNK neither their acts turned loosed. It means the statement of those around was a mockery statement. If you saying a drunk man staggers, laughs etc. If they were drunk in real life, Peter would have been the first to lie in that scene.

superior1: The physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit in the Apostles on the day of pentecost was such that some of the Jews concluded the Apostles were drunk, Peter had to tell them they weren't (He even told them It was too early to drink so they could believe him this further proving there were signs of intoxication among the Apostles). A drunk man is likely to fall, stagger, shout, dance etc

Acts 2:12-13
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

When you read Ephesians 5 vs 18
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit

You will see Paul making a statement that suggest it is possible to be drunk in the Holy Spirit

There are divers manifestation of the Holy Spirit, falling under the Holy Spirit is part of it(it doesn't however mean some ministers and members don't fake it. It also doesn't mean all falling can be ascribed to the Holy Spirit)

I have sat under ministration were men of calm nature (people who do not have any reason to want to fake anything) suddenly started laughing, jumping, falling etc. These are professionals who are not even members of the ministry!!

LWKMD!!!

The scripture is very clear. The passage you referring to says, Peter told them they weren't drunk and that explains the other side that the other people where simply mocking the Holy Spirit that came on them as a fire to refer to what happened as though the Apostles were drunk. When the Holy Spirit came on them like a fire, did the Apostles falls flat or were they knocked down? Who was laying hands on who (in the case of the Apostles) for anyone to fall?

Every Christian need a DOWNLOAD OF THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH INTO THEIR LIVES to dis-infect themselves from what they have been taught in the past. It doesn't matter who your teachers are, the Berean Christians must challenge every teachings of Paul the Apostle so they can hold fast what is that good and acceptable unto God.

potentpraise: As for your giving to known and unknown, if you have not given to me, you have not giving at all. You are still not giving enough compare to how much you are making, so my friend do something, pass me some western union and better still, give some free recharge cards to some christian brothers in Nigeria..lol

My friend, I actually forgot to mention this part and it shows we are both in the Spirit. I had wanted to ask the same question that, abi na because the western union nefa reach your side na eim no make you believe wetin I dey talk? Ol Boy, you don try small sha. But when you drop that tithe collection, I go include you for my list of western union. You suppose don get better pepper from the tithe naw....LWKMD! Anyway, e fit tay small before the thing reach you o my guy, many people dey wait for line make e reach their turn but make you fast and pray to you no go wait like that man by the pool of Bethesda

idnoble135: I thought you abandoned the thread.
Am really feeling sleepy

Don't worry, go and sleep. The talk will not finish immediately. I'm a very busy person and I'm still attending to other issues on the computer right now even as I attend to this thread. I will have to read you and others to know know where I'm going to contribute. We don't have to be rigid on our presentation but let's just do the teachings and allow the Spirit of God to minister to readers. I was actually at work and just got home, that's why I was away from the thread for like 8-9 hours...my work schedule.

Go and sleep. You will read me when you wake up and I will be online in the morning like 10am GMT, Nigeria time. We can further the discussion. I will contribute tonight though but you might be deep asleep then because I have to finish other things online first before I sidon berekete for nairaland.

Thank you.

Mehn, this topic don waka reach FP. LORD! Lemme see how I can follow up. I have to go through the thread from where I left.

These days, so many interesting topics here and this is one of them @ OP. I love this topic. God is the same but work under different times and dispensation. The NT is COMPLETELY different from the OT but same God.

Under the OT, God was dealing with just national Israel but under the NT, the whole world using Israel as a foreshadow of what is to come.

We are not called to ministry or minister the OT but the NT. The Old was a shadow and template for the new but all scriptures given by inspiration of God and we believe the New as we also believe the Old.

The covenant of the New is ratified by the blood of Christ, not of goats and bulls. That's why it is a better covenant. The loving God of the New is also a consuming fire.

idnoble135: ^
True there is something called "anointing within" us. But there is something also called "anointing upon".
I'd reply you when in about 2hours time. Am not with my bible.

Okay. I await your response so we look at it together.

potentpraise: Mr Goshen360 when will you have time to contribute? You are begining to lie like those you are acquising.
May God help you. I am waiting for your sculpturally made analysis...not scripturally because i know, no analysis you will bring other than the one that you made and attached some unmeasurable quotes



How can you extablish that you are christian? Christianity is not about the belief in the religion or going to church. Its people who are christ-like: they have the characteristics of christ. Today is gone and you are yet to contribute is that your second day lie? Before you misquote Adeboye, you should ask yourself how many poor have you helped in nigeria or even on the street of NY?

Anyways, i am giving you the opportunity to reflect on this and come take some biblical lectures from me, so you can be confident that you are dealing with issues scripturally.. My good friend--lol

My good friend,

Long time. No vex abeg. If I say I will return to a topic and contribute, most times, I'm so busy and by the time I come back, the topic must have gone too far. Anyway, na busy-busy make me delay and by the time I return home, I'm too tired. Efen this one wey I wan talk sef, I nefa get time like that.

Anyway, the RCCG is putting people under undue pressure towards giving and such is not scriptural. Scripture does not permit ANY moG to mention or suggest any amount a believer is suppose to give - as a man purpose IN HIS HEART, SO LET HIM GIVE. When I was in OFFA, the system is, (and I know it still works that way) all tithes collected from all parishes are all sent to the national headquaters. Where does such practices exist in scripture? I first challenged that practices, not knowing I will one day become an anti-tithe. I questioned my pastor then, if you like make your research, he is Pastor H.C. Monyei and the Area Pastor, Oladoye. I questioned both of them why we must sent all tithes to the headquarters when the local parish is struggling to survive with finances.

The truth of the matter is, RCCG only invest money in parishes where their leaders know will generate more return in more lucrative areas; more or less like business investment strategies while they will leave their local non lucrative area parishes to struggle on their one and while struggling, must still remit all tithes to national headquarters. I though they teach that tithe must be remit to where one worship? If people don't worship in the national headquarter, why will they remit tithe to national headquarter? The same headquarter that we remit all tithe to will never allocate money for us when we needed to buy land, pews, etc. Not to boast about this, my sacrifices and commitments in the things of God are still in the memories of these two pastors I mentioned.

RCCG just built the present building last year or two, if I'm not mistaken and the same way, millions of people were asked to contribute by specifying certain amount to certain categories of people. That's unscriptural. If a man of God is to make know a project, he should just announce it and let the people decide what they going to give not the man of God making some special amount for the rich and some for the poor.

You talked about how many people (poor) I have help so far. I just laugh at you because that argument is out of evils in your heart. First, I don't have to announce my help to nobody. Second, I have a record here on this forum how I help people I have not even seen or met, except by this forum - I don't have to mention names. Listen, giving is part of my lifestyle and giving is living. If I do such help to people not in NY, how much more do you think I will do to helping people where I reside? You're just saying what you know nothing about my friend.

Anyway, long story short, RCCG is building empire NOT kingdom.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Which anointing are people falling under? Scripture says the 'anointing' is within you, 1 John 2:27. This anointing is nothing other than the Holy Spirit. It used to come upon people in the Old testament but now resides in us, believers. When people say they fall under anointing of a laying of hands of a moG, where is that coming from where the same Holy Spirit reside in you?

Now, that is different from when in worship or deep praises to God and the glory is over-whelming. That's the work of the Holy Spirit within you. The glory of God is so strong and can over-whelm a believer and in such case, one can bow in worship, cry, shout and even lay\roll on the floor by themselves without no one touching them or laying hands on them not that the Holy Spirit knocking people down when a moG touches them or blow some breeze in the microphone and say Holy Ghost, MOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEE. That's nonsense and insult to the Holy Spirit because which Holy Ghost are you telling to move? Was he standing still as he's already present in the gathering of believers? Are Pastors the ones to command the Holy Spirit to move when scripture says gifts of the Holy Spirit operates as the Spirit will?

Check all those falling in scriptures, it's either they are demon possessed (in these cases, demons at about to get out knocks them them) or those who by reference to the overwhelming glory of God, bow in worship. Most of these people are not even Christians. The Holy Spirit is not a monster knocking people down rather, one of the fruit of the Spirit is SELF CONTROL.