₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: But which parent did Adam and Eve bring?

Sir, you're simply going back to my VERY point. See, we need to put everything the institutionalized church taught us into scriptural scrutiny. In the start, I said, IN THE EYES OF GOD, the two adults that 'consent' to marry are already married. Now, because God later gave institution to marriage that THEREFORE SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER....This where our parents comes in. First, it is in the EYES OF GOD when a man FINDS A WIFE, he finds a good thing. God was the witness or 'consent' to that of Adam. In our time today, it first God that we pledge our marriage vow before meaning....IN THE EYES OF GOD. Then from our parents. There's not 'formal' thing needed. When 'love making' happens in such consents, it is NOT illicit s.ex anymore because God already sees it as marriage and BOTH parents does also.

striktlymi: Na hin b say no body go marry for Africa be that ni!

You never read am for law of Moses ni?

striktlymi: I need to understand this before I comment on it.

Are you saying that I can go to the parents of whomever I want yo get married to and as soon as I get their 'Yes' I take her home as wife?

What about your own parents? I said BOTH parents. If your own parent no like the lady....you have work to do then. There no consent from BOTH parents then. You take it cool then, nothing should be between y'both.

ijawkid: At least you go pay that bride price first.....no be just for parents to say ""YES"" we gree for you to marry our daughter.....actions and following the laid down laws of the land must be adhered to......

And isn't the registering of ones marraige in the court like a requirement from ceaser??..............pay back ceasers things to ceaser bro.......

You want make I cain you ni. I said, under the law of Moses, in order to pay dowry, the man must lay with the woman. That's the pre-requisite for paying dowry. Otherwise, no dowry o....if no laying. Abi I wan buy market make I no see how product be ni.....

christemmbassey: Kai religious ppl don take over, it must be like this, it must be like that. The truth about the whole matter is - sex is meant for a MAN and his Wife,outside that it is fornication/adultery and sin, now how the man take get de wife na anoda matter enterly, whether he steal am o, elope with am o, they dash am o etc, marriage na marriage, afterall if they want dlvorse how they take marry nm matter, i have seen 2ppl who met during the naija civil war married no ceremony, very happy, born cool guys and they stay happily married.

Every body needs to READ this please. This is the point I'm making. When two people have the consent of BOTH parents, THEY ARE MARRIED IN THE EYES OF GOD. How the man gets his wife is irrelevant. In this case, the parents have given consent to both. They are free to make love. That's not illicit s.ex ANYMORE and it's not fornication. You people should not let the institutionalized church say you must do this or do that do be husband and wife.

striktlymi: I agree that the only consent we need is that given by God but the problem will be how do we determine this? I have seen cases where after the parents consent the man or lady fall for someone else.

Don't you think that it would be appropriate to have some formal ceremony just like the one Jesus attended. At least then this consent is made formal. Remember too that there was a case where Jesus asked someone he healed to still go to a priest to be certified okay.

striktlymi: I don't think there is any need to invite a lot of people for the church blessing I talk about. One can go with the spouse and may be parents as witnesses.

The elaborate thingy is really not needed!

Your two post are contradictory sir. That's what I'm saying - The parents are the witness and the gave consent for both. They two are married then meaning, they're already given in marriage. The formal things is just ceremony. It doesn't mean the people that were already consented by parents and given in marriage aren't married. If these people 'make love' it is NOT illicit s.ex. That's the point I'm making.

ijawkid: Nobody went to church.......let's remove church out of this...its kinda irrelevant as far as marraige is concerned....na jara be that.....court comes into this discussion because ceaser demands it.....abi you no go give wetin belong to ceaser??.............

My own is pay bride price(which covers parental consent) and register your marraige according to the law........these are requisites bro...........you can't run away from them and claim God in heaven just approves of you sleeping with a girl because you casualy met with the girls parents and they agree to take you in as there son-in-law............

So far, you made the MOST reasonable sense so far. That dowry be paid and forget all other formal ceremony. But ceaser no demand anything o. Where ceaser demand am? Or you're saying give unto ceaser what belongs to ceaser? If that's what you're saying, then you're right for the register aspect.

But do you know that the requirement to pay dowry under the law is to 'make love' with your intending spouse?

[quote author=Bélla3]Okay let me ask you,

Can this couple that are being intimate cancel the marriage if they wish?[/quote]There's no wedding in 'formal' ceremony in what I'm saying. You like wedding too much. No worry, I will make sure I attend yours with plenty dollars

striktlymi: Bro Goshen,

Going to church does not imply that the pastor is the one who gives his consent. In every marital act, the consent of God is needed. Adam and Eve had this consent directly hence there was no need for any other blessing but in our time we go to church to have God bless the union not the pastor.

Remember that even what we go to do in church is not strictly the marriage but a confirmation of God's blessings in the community of God's people.

NO, there's nowhere in scripture that say if God has already given consent or approve the consent of the intending couple, they 'should' still go to church or pastor for marriage. It's strictly the two consenting adults and their parents. Will you mind showing us from scriptures where pastors are to bless what God had already confirmed? What I'm saying is, when 'love making', not illicit s.ex take place within such 'parental consent' and that of the consent of the adults, it is not fornication. In the eye of God and the eyes of their consenting parents, they are already married.

What say ye?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]I will grant you this that there was no mention of "pastor/preist's consent in the bible.[/quote]Okay, fine. what then is the original 'consent' for marriage then?

ijawkid: The thing easy...just pay bride price and then go court go register according to the law of ceaser.............

E be like goshen problem na wether him must go church or not.............

Which people are those that goes to church or court in the bible in order to marry? Show me one and let me quit this thread. And I will openly apologize for whatever I have said. You people don't wanna even listen to the point I'm talking.

Snowwy: Do not get it twisted Goshen. Consent to marry is NOT marriage.

God created a help meet for Adam, specially packaged wife. That was the first place wife was used. Gen 2:24

If you are not sleeping with your wife or husband, you are commiting sin. shikena. Whatever definition you have to the word Husband or Wife, na you sabi.
I rest my case.

You're talking like that because you're taking marriage that there must be 'formal' ceremony. I do not think there MUST be formal ceremony. The 'consent' of both parents has put the two consenting adults in marriage. The ceremony is ONLY a 'formal' thing.

[quote author=Bélla3]Marriage in eden?? Yes, God was the officiator and witness.
Since they have gotten consent to marry why not make it legal?? Oga GOSHEN[/quote]Exactly what I'm saying - THERE WASN'T ANY 'FORMAL' CEREMONY in Eden between Adam and Eve because when God brought Eve to Adam, and Adam accepted, IN THE EYES OF GOD, they're already married - They're husband and wife. There wasn't ANY 'former' ceremony. Formal ceremony is for modern day way, that's not the way God sees it. In such case, Adam 'making love' with his wife IS NOT fornication.

What say ye?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]This is a very irrelevant question with the intent to mislead. Can you show us any other man in the bible who God created his wife direct from his rib so that we can properly compare the "context"?[/quote]You just made my point. I'm saying - IN THE EYES OF GOD, such people are already married. We only bring in the consent of parents today because what followed in the commandment of God was - therefore shall a man leave his FATHER AND MOTHER....that's where parental consent comes in.

What say ye?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]They don't need to go to church and marry sef. if the thing dey hold them too much that they can't wait, they can call their pastor and witnesses to marry them over the phone or skype the wedding sharp sharp. You are just seeking loopholes. As long as they are not married, they are fornicating.[/quote]NO, I disagree - It's not the pastor that 'consent' to marriage. It is whoever find a wife finds a good thing and parents giving their 'consent'. Where does scripture say PASTOR MUST bless me and my partner before I marry? Show me scripture and I promise to quit this argument (reasoning).

[quote author=Bélla3]The thing tire you? The thing kill me o.
It is very clear christians are ready to go any length to twist the bible.[/quote]Abeg make una cool down joor. Haba. Let's look into scripture and reason out our Christian faith in the Spirit of truth. What I'm saying is a man and woman with consent to marry and consent from parents, even without 'formal' marriage ceremony when they 'make love' is not pre-marital se.x because in the eyes of God, they're already married otherwise, there would have being 'formal' marriage ceremony when God instituted marriage in Eden but there was none.

What say ye?

Snowwy: @Goshen,
You have already answered your question. It is pre-marital sex.

S.ex. within marriage is the only God-approved intimacy, so if you are equating parental consent to mean marriage and the parents agree that you both are married (not going to marry o), the bride too knows she is married, then you are married. In today's world, people take a step further to get court and church validations.

But if you guys and family are thinking of holding a wedding, just as Christ attended one, and it is in that wedding that you and your small world can attest that you are married, then any act of intimacy before it is sin.

Summary, sex is only approved in marriage by God. That is what you have been told here on and on. All these bringing scenarios into it will not help you.

Yes, I agree but can you show us where Adam did 'formal' marriage by going to church or court before 'knowing' Eve to start bearing children I want us to reason in bible context.

Ishilove: Yes it is baba nla fornication. If perchance something happens and the couple break up and move on to other people, and somethin happens again and the partners break again, meanwhile they have been banging each other's brains out because they are "committed to marry each other". If it takes three or four different breakups before they finally settle down, will they sleep with all three or four different people?

Sex outside the confines of marriage is wrong. Let us not try to rationalise sin. Sin is sin.

You're saying "IF" something happens they didn't marry. What if nothing happens and they still marry? You're only talking of the 'formalized' marriage ceremony. When parents of both gives consent and they unmarried people are committed to marrying one another, in the eyes of God, they're already married. We only do ceremony for 'formal' purpose. In such case, is such pre-FORMAL marriage 'love making' a fornication?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Then if they are so "committed" to marriage and parents' marital consent is already given, they might as well wait and marry. The pre-marital sex here is absolutely unnecessary.[/quote]So you're saying until they go to church to marry, they aren't marry yet even though the parents have given consent? Is that what you're saying?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Yes it is illicit sex. They are not married. Promise of marriage does not automatically equal marriage.[/quote]I didn't say 'promise' of marriage. I said, committed to being marry with consent from both parents. Will such s.ex or love making in such case be called fornication (illicit s.ex)?

christemmbassey: a very careful NO.

What're you saying NO to please? Kindly follow up with words. That's where I'm going o

[quote author=Mr_Anony]If fornication is illicit sex and any lust outside marriage is illicit lust, then it follows that any sex whatsoever outside marriage will equally fall under the category of illicit sex. Simple logic[/quote]On the above, lemme ask you a question. If a man and a woman is committed to marrying one another with consent and from both parents but have not yet married, having pre-marriage s.ex or making love to one another; is that a fornication that is, is that an illicit s.ex?

christemmbassey: my broda, i dont know if you 've seen my opinion, in my view as a christian, sex should be between A MAN AND HIS WIFE, outside that, it is illicit, fornication/adultery therefor a sin, its is not food, but highly spiritual activity that welds or joins two halves to become one. It is a kolnonia of two spirits, i suspect okeyxyz, pls allow the Spirit of God to teach you not how well you can explain any man's writtings, it is not theology pls.

That's what I'm saying - Two unmarried people can commit fornication (that is, illicit or abuse or unlawful s.ex) but we have to put it in the context and then we leave it as it is. I'm not trying to use theology though but we can't understand context when we don't really understand what the words means, then how do we apply the word?

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Good answer...so if lust between two single unmarried people is sin, is there a type of s[color=#000000]e[/color]x that is without lust?[/quote]I will put everything in place with the right use of words as we proceed. Cool down bro.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]You have spoken well...now answer me this: Is lust between two single unmarried people a sin? Yes or no?[/quote]Lust is SIN. - That's where the 'illicit' s.ex we are talking about comes in. Maybe okeyxyz will answer for himself but that's my answer according to scriptures.

I will follow up with many and intensive teaching thereafter. I'm trying to collate a verifiable study materials for everyone to access online. Thank you!

Omo Alata: but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Did Adam and Eve die physically? NO

Did they die spiritually? YES - there was a divide between God and man which Jesus had to rectify.

When MFM prays, "Every strongman from my foundation, die!", they/we are simply praying that they should die [size=20pt]spiritually[/size] in our lives i.e. they can no longer operate in our lives. Of course, these strongmen will still be roaming up and down the town inflicting other poor souls, but because of the divide you have created between you and them, they'll no longer be able to touch you!

We are not dumb and know that spirits can not die KMT

You mean, even in your NEW SPIRITUAL nature and life IN CHRIST JESUS, you're still contaminated by SPIRITUAL STAINS

debosky: Not surprising. . . . the thread has gone the same way as the previous one. Lots of pontificating and often a failure to even attempt to understand what is being discussed.

Might as well merge this thread with the previous one.

Hey bro. I will make attempt to make it clear if there'll be not derail. At least we're all adult Christians. We should reason together.

Snowwy: Goshen,
How does someone misunderstand you and okeyxyz who basically said:

1. There is no sin when two unmarried consenting adults have intimacy So in other words you mean nothing wrong in two grown siblings being intimate as well.

2. There is no sin if a man or woman allows his spouse to have sex with someone else, 'afterall a man and woman have no authority over their bodies'

This is disturbing coming from a supposed christian!!!

Snowwy, you've REALLY misunderstood me; maybe PLUS others too. That is why kind of teaching is definitely going to mislead the young Christians if not properly handled because many will take it out of context, misunderstand and misuse what is said here.

First, you quoted me out of context with what I agree to what okeyxyz said. How do I mean? I NEVER agree to #2 above - That was okeyxyz's words. If I agreed to #2, kindly quote me.

2. I only agree to #1 within the definition of the word 'fornication' when I looked up the word. Now, I will proceed to apply the definition of the word, 'fornication' within the context of what I agree to. Maybe you'll find patience to allow me finish. Yes, two unmarried people can commit 'fornication' which in this case means 'illicit' s.ex BUT not all s.ex is 'illicit' thereby making it fornication.

Abeg cool down make we reason together

^ Ahhhhhhhhh, I now see people have misunderstood me or perhaps misunderstood okeyxyz. Okay, I will explain my point or myself for clarity and record purpose. Give me like 2 hours, I have to quickly do some assignment right now okay, my brother. I will be back. Thanks

^ But I didn't say that right? Was it me that said that?

highyo: All the devil in my house, in my family, die in the name of Jesus
Devil can not die and demons can not die. only God will destroy them at the end time
after judgment, hades(hell) and death will be cast into the lake of fire. there their judgment will begin. but now they can not be hurt by hell but at the end, they will be burnt by the lake of fire.
they are still waiting for their judgment

remember when Christ deliver a man with demon, he said, Jesus son ofb God, have you come to harm us before the appointed time? so for now they can not be harm. christain can only chase them away with the name of Jesus.

So warn Mountain of fire, Devil can not die, and demons can not die. only God will destroy them when the time come

You see how truth will set you free unlike the "hell fire" revelation you saw on the other thread. You see this is CONSISTENT with scriptures. You see, church people have left their 'reasoning' and became too or over spiritual. Maybe very soon, members of MFM will start calling you devil's advocate because you simply said the truth that devil cannot die but that's the truth. If the devil they prayed to die yesterday had indeed died yesterday, how come they still pray for another devil to die today? Jesus weeps.....

^ Many Christians believes that passage of John you quoted was referring to the devil as the thief BUT ALAS, You're RIGHT - It was talking about FALSE TEACHERS. Well, For record purpose, I LOVE DR. HENRY MORRIS and also have his study Bible. He is sure a good bible teacher no doubt BUT like the Bereans, I have learned to subject EVERY BIBLE TEACHERS to SOUND DOCTRINE. I have learned to examine what is taught if it is truth hence I will swallow anything poison.

On this subject of tithe and offering, Dr. Morris and brother Ola are missing it and I can subject them both to just two questions in order to test the truth of the doctrine of tithes and offerings. I hope our brother Ola will stay with his own thread when asked to explain the reasons for which he believes tithe and offering still apply to Christians today because I have just two simple questions that will nail this subject of tithe and offerings. Perhaps he will be set free from the tithe captives as well.

@ Brother Ola, Can I ask just two questions please please. If it's more that two questions, please, do not answer the third one. Lemme know when you're ready sir. I don't want to start putting this article under the NT scriptural examination line-by-line. Thank you bro.