₦airaland Forum

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No mind us - tithe teachers and anti-tithers. The tithe teachers are the ones looking for trouble all the time because they want to collect money from God's people. They will threaten God's people with curse in Malachi - That's a way of 'forcing' people to tithe 10% of their income.

We're only here to tell them the NT NEVER instructed Christians to tithe but to give and it doesn't have to be 10% but as any man is blessed. Our message is quite simple! As long as they keep coming up to threaten with curse, we shall not hold our peace also.

potentpraise: All? read from 16... You do lots of selective reading that also leads you to selective comprehension= Selective understanding

What am I selecting? Nothing! I said, Lot was part of the ALL that Abraham recovered. Is that not?

And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

If Lot was part of the ALL that was recovered, then that is taken as Abraham's 100% income. I'm still trying to let you see that TENTH doesn't EQUAL TITHE.

Now, Abraham has 100% from war right and the tithe according to your definition is 10%, which is 10 in this case. Right!

Now, take Lot and his goods out of the 100%. Saying we're left with 80% (taken out of the whole 100%)

Now, your initial definition of tithe would have been 10 taken the 100% of income BUT by 'tenth part'. The servants of Abraham had taken or eaten some parts, lots and his goods is out (from the same 100%) Abraham then gave 'tenth' part from the remaining of the division - THAT IS NOT TITHE ANYMORE, because from what the tithe was given or paid had reduced from 100% to say 75%. What Abraham was giving then was 'tenth' part of the 75 remaining percent.

Image123: are you kidding me? so you pay your tenth but not your tithe? did you drink something likely to contain some alcohol?

No, na ogogoro I drink Tenth part is NOT tithe. You need lecture. It's already going on in the other thread!

potentpraise: You are your brother Goshen360 are just catching fun.. Lot was not tithed but the goods they got from the people that kidnapped Lots

BUT Lot was part of the ALL.....which means INCOME for Abraham. NO

potentpraise: While Lot was not part of the spoils: the goods recovered from a battle, the men and slaves were part of the tithes paid. Slaves in those days were commodity or we say property. So if they are property and they are goods, including the women, that means 10% of their total number could have been given to Melchisedec to help him carry the tithes that was given to him to wherever he was going and also to help him with some errands.

Except if you want to change english word then we will go with your definition, but as long as universal definition of tithes means the tenth percent then i am very correct. O

Interestingly, people are reading you and you're simply helping to make my point come alive. Now, you've said my total income say it's $100 just like everything Abraham got from the war was his total income, including Lot his brother. I was telling you that 'tithe' does NOT equal 'tenth'. Now, if Abraham takes out Lot from his total income (in this case), he is left with say 90% and now, you're saying Abraham then GAVE tithe from the 90%.

Very simply and plain, Abraham DIDN'T give tithe ANYMORE, he gave TENTH. Tenth is a tenth part AFTER division. That is, after taking out his brother and his brother's goods. He also gave back to King of Sodom the rest which is another portion of the division. He only gave a tenth part from the goods to Melchizedek, THAT IS NOT TITHE! Tithe is 10% of the TOTAL.

Now, you people that teach tithes, TAKEN YOUR TOTAL INCOME into this case of Abraham, do you also give the rest of 90% to the equivalent of the king of Sodom your boss .

YES ooooooooooooooo. God CANNOT CURSE AND BLESS AT THE SAME TIME. It's either you're out or in; you cannot be outside and inside at the SAME time. Either you are dry or wet; you cannot be under a shower and say you're dry. Either you're full or empty. God has ALREADY blessed us in the NT - It's NOT by tithing! They should stop threatening God's people with tithe curses of Malachi 3:9-10.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith. - Galatians 3:13-14

You see, BLESSED!

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: - Ephesians 1:3

Again, BLESSED!

How can we be ALREADY blessed and they still tell us we're CURSED God cannot bless and curse at the same time.

^ Haaaaaaaa, Brother mi. Haaaaaaaaaa. Well, I believe he is still a brother but he is mixing truth with error. Even the false brothers in the Bible were still called brothers or brethren. No matter what he does and even if we don't agree, he's still my brother till Christ comes.

Image123: payyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy your tithes, tight_fisted souls.

Which 'tithe'? Or you meant 'TENTH' part The last time I checked, 'tithe' was cancelled but 'tenth', then you're talking.....

^^^ My brother. You dey make me laff too much o. TITHE OF ALL.....in context right?

Verse 16 tells us the ALL that was recovered - And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people.

So Abraham tithed 10% of 'Lot is brother' also? Did he tithe 10% of the women also? and of the people? The last time I checked, Lot was still walking in the next chapter had it being he was also tithed inclusive the 10%. YES or NO?

You don't want to agree that what Abraham gave was TENTH PART, NOT TITHE according to Hebrews 7:1-2, KJV

For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Abraham could not have PAID 'tithe' (if it means 10%) BUT he GAVE 'tenth'. As we could see, Lot wasn't part of the ALL, hence he could not have paid 10% but 'tenth' part of what was divided from ALL what he recovered from war.

^ Thanks bro. Just did that at ease at your advice.

Image123: you want make i catch you, i go catch you, next week.

Chei, see people even my very own brother(s) wan catch me for my own words.... . I know say na joke you dey joke but I don dey alert now sha....as you don talk am now.

OLAADEGBU: Because you said that it is not offering doesn't mean that it's not. You may wish to call it charitable givings or alms but some call it tithes and offerings and is used in paying the full time ministers and for taking care of the gospel needs.

If you like call it offering. Nowhere does the NT refers offerings to MONEY given to worship places. Show us from scriptures that offerings = MONEY and let's stop going back and forth. Very simple!

OLAADEGBU: This is an example of a principle of a systematic and regular form of giving for the overall work of God. [size=20pt]The word store that you omitted has the same meaning as storehouse that is in Malachi 3:10[/size] where God's people have the responsibility to support the work of God and not leave it to the whims and caprices of charitable givers.

You should know better before you made the above statement. Since you also like going into Greek and Hebrews from Dr. Henry's teachings. Here is it for you,

The Hebrews word and meaning for 'storehouse' is NOT the same as the Greek meaning of the Greek word for 'store' as used in 1 Corinthians 16:2.

STOREHOUSE, from here: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/malachi/passage.aspx?q=malachi+3:9-10

Lexicon and dictionary opened here: http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/owtsar.html

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Definition
treasure, storehouse treasure (gold, silver, etc) store, supplies of food or drink treasure-house, treasury treasure-house storehouse, magazine treasury magazine of weapons (fig. of God's armoury) storehouses (of God for rain, snow, hail, wind, sea)


STORE as used in 1 Corinthians 16:2,

1) to gather and lay up, to heap up, store up
a) to accumulate riches
b) to keep in store, store up, reserve
2) metaph. so to live from day to day as to increase either the bitterness or the happiness of one's consequent lot.

How then does both words mean the same thing. Maybe next you will say 'storehouse' = 'The Church' Yes?

OLAADEGBU: Legalistic tithing is your own Strawman.

Strawman's job again.


So you are now free to commit adultery and robbery, no?

The law of Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death. Adultery is NOWHERE encouraged in the NT. Robbery is NOWHERE encouraged in the NT. We don't commit adultery NOT because the law said so but according to the law of Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, NOT according to the law of Moses.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labor, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needs. - Ephesians 4:28

The law of Spirit of Life in Christ is NOW written in our heart NOT on STONES brother. This is what you said was revealed but was concealed in the OT. That is it! I can go on and on.

^ Yes! Na so naw. I dey do research many times so when I stumble on some good website. I save it and go through it. . No worry, you're safe....with Gosheni

Tgirl4real: Lol

I Y-am H-Innocent.

Yes, I know you are. We don't have dirty minds. To those who are pure, all things are pure. No worry, you be my sister. I don see gnir for your hand. #Hug

potentpraise: A word like i said earlier could mean different thing at different sentence or phrase. On the 10th of the month, on the 10th of the year meant the 10th day of the month and year.

The 10th of your income, the 10th of your salary meant different thing which is 10% of your income and salary

This is where you're wrong! Say if I earn 100 dollars as income in a month. I pay say 15USD as rent. I pay tuition. I pay transportaion or gas. etc Say everything divided accordingly, then I can take a TENTH PART of my income which DOES NOT EQUAL 10% in keeping with my income (1 Corinthians 16:2, NIV) and give that 'tenth part' to the worship places or my neighbour or my family members......That's why Zikky said that about 'tenth part'

Snowwy: @Goshen,

Run off? I should not be surprised by the way you make allegations then start apologising later.

I know you will run in the end! I have learned not to make any further allegation that prompts me to apologize. Whatever issue you have with that is your own issue. I will only discuss the subject matter without even name calling or what have you, okay.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

I will just advise you to drop your double standards, you find it easy to define words outside the bible but raise eyebrows at others that do.

I don't understand what you meant by 'double standard'. Care to explain please.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

There are enough discussions on tithe already so raising a fresh topics will not change the mind of people whether in favour or against, only the Holy Spirit can.

So I'm the one that started this fresh topic right? And you claimed I often accuse people and later apologize. The fact that I apologise is not a weakness. I simply admit where I'm wrong by calling names within our discussion. What else I apologize for? That I'm teaching what I know? Don't we have the right to reason along together what we know? As long as you guys stop telling Christians to pay tithe, then this matter will be laid to rest. The Op start a thread and I gave my best advice, so what's the issue that you're referring to 'raising a fresh topics'? Do you see me start a tithe TOPIC in the recent or contribute to threads being opened? Na wha for you o.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

The OP asked a question which is being answered. So arguing on whether or not to give tithe or offering is not the issue.

The question of the OP is being answered but it is your other/our brother that responded to my comment that brought this argument. How else do I explain that to you to? Didn't you see that? Please, stop reading me with biased mind simply because we don't agree on some doctrinal issues. Feel free to reason scriptures with me, if need be.

Snowwy: @Goshen,

Therefore, staying on this thread? Naaa! Just passing through. Just take the advice I gave.

Your advice here is not valid. If it valid I will humbly submit as you know me. Telling Christians to tithe is wrong and as long as you guys keeping coming out with that, we will always reason it out with you. It doesn't matter how many times it's being said. I'm not the one starting fresh tithe topic, it's being over flogged but if any discussion on it comes, don't I have the right to talk? Or you think it's everything I apologize for. If I'm wrong, I will humbly apology, it doesn't diminish anything from me.

potentpraise: Again i say.. you either do it deliberately or you do not understand what is going on..
How do you relate 10% with Number 10?

10 PERCENT Meant if everything is divided into 10 places

if you are talking about a year you are talking about 12 months and lets do little maths here

10% of 12 months =1.2 month.. Here is the formula should you have reason to use it to pay your tithes

Formula to pay my tithe ke? So God God don start dey give formula? The example I gave you about 12. Isn't 12 a number. Okay, let's take another one. 30 days a month. So 30 taken as number. 10% of 30 is 3 BUT 'tenth' or 'tenth part of 30 is 10 or tenth day. NO?

potentpraise: Zikkyy:
Goshen360's initial post (below) is valid.

ANS
If himself directly or indirectly admitted that his argument has been refuted

How and where did I directly or indirectly admitted? What kind of allegation is this?

Snowwy: @OP, I think you already know the answer, it is in your question.

@Goshen,
You never cease to surprise me. We have had a discussion on this and you dissappeared when you ran out of contradicting yourself. I will advise you leave matters you do not understand. It is just candid advise.

Welcome back! I hope you will stay this time. I can't remember when I disappeared o. One thing about you is that, you start here now and the next thing is you will run off. I hope you stay this time.

^ This is not argument for arguing sake or what have you. Let's begin to put the difference (tenth and tithe) into use now. For instance, there're 12 months in a year. The 'tenth' month is October. Are you telling us that 'tithe' (10%) of 12 is will automatically be EQUAL 10 (10th) month?

^
Our brother needs to first understand there's difference between TENTH and TITHE first before he can argue successfully and teach the truth.

@ Moderators, Please, does the new version of Nairaland permits you guys to see user's IP address from your end over there?

potentpraise: Dictionary defines tithes :
Sometimes, tithes. the tenth part of agricultural produce or personal income set apart as an offering to God or for works of mercy, or the same amount regarded as an obligation or tax for the support of the church, priesthood, or the like. Reference: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tithes+?s=t

He was a priest like the chapter explain, He was not Jesus .. He was being referenced to

Circular dictionary to define God's word?

Okay, lemme begin with this verses so you see the differences,

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; (vs 2)

This might shock you also,

Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, [even] a tenth [part] of the tithe. - Numbers 18:26

can you see TENTH and TITHE in the same verse addressed to the LEVITES? Do 'tenth' (part) and 'tithe' mean the same thing? God gave a commandment to take tithes (not tenth). It was a commandment - The same God cancells the commandment when He cancelled the Levitical Priesthood says Hebrews 7:18.

OLAADEGBU: Who said tithes is offering? If you can twist what I said to something else how much more of twisting what God has said. What I said was that Tithes and Offerings are forms of giving. Let me break it down further, tithes is a form of giving, offering is also a form of giving and my question was why do you choose offering and reject tithes since both are forms of giving? Since you do not seem to understand the applications of spiritual principles that Christians use let me refer you to how Apostle Paul who is a real Apostle (unlike some today who like to think that they are apostles and let us see how he applied the OT to the NT:

"Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn." (Deuteronomy 25:4)

I have said it before and will say it again. What we give in worship places today when we come together is NEVER offering. It is religion that calls it offering. The NT simple teaches we should set aside 'certain portion' of our money for God when we come together. That's where our giving to our worship places comes in. If I'm talking out of scripture, then will you mind to show us where OFFERING = MONEY DONATIONS in worship places other than this scriptures.

New Living Translation (©2007)
On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don't wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once. - 1 Corinthians 16:2

OLAADEGBU: Your are still fixated on the law of tithing, why don't you learn the principles behind it and then apply it to your christian life and service.

The principle behind tithe is that we should support those who minister and labour in the word. That is supported in the NT BUT did Paul mentioned it MUST be by tithing to them? Supporting them could be in whatever form. That's the principle behind it, not by the means of legalistic tithing.

OLAADEGBU: If the priesthood of Levi wasn't abolished what was? the Moral Law? This is what Christ said to the contrary:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17-19).

All of you that are teaching men to break these commandments by saying that it is abolished thinking it is a licence to sin would be accountable according to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you now agree that the Levitical priesthood is abolished? If you agree, then does the tithe ascribed to the Levitical priesthood still stand or remained unabolished? The Levitical priesthood + offering sacrifice + burnt offering + interceding + tithe are ALL inseparable. When you talk of Levitical Priesthood, you talk of the above. All others are gone but only tithe remains right?

Besides, What is Moral Law? And lemme me show you that the whole law is gone!

potentpraise: If you see that the priesthood was related to Melchisedec and it was reference that he collected tithes and the order of Melchisedec is related to Jesus.. You should also know the author was more concern about the Israelite to see Jesus as the new priest.

So if its reference to Melchisedec and he also collected tithes, the tithes is not abolished.

Melchizedek collected tithe or TENTH? And who was He? Christ?

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I do not argue that Hebrews 7 IS NOT talking about priesthood of Jesus better than that of Leviticals. That's not the argument here. The argument is, tithe was also included in this teachings of Hebrews 7 to drive home to the conclusion of the priesthood of Jesus Christ - That is, in Christ's priesthood once replaced also replaced the entirety of the levitical priesthood and everything ascribed to them.

Okay, lemme play a soft game here. If you say it was the priesthood that was nullified, will the tithe commanded to the levitical priesthood according to the law still remain if the priesthood is gone?

^ The language of vs 16 has revealed the truth of vs 5, lemme show you,

...have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law,..... (vs 5)

Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. (vs 16)

The commandment (singular) is taken as whole CONTAINED in the law (singular) of Moses. The 613 lawS is plural but everything therein is taken as a WHOLE or ONE wherein it contains commandmentS taken as a whole or ONE. You disagree?

potentpraise: First i am not dodging your question and i think with your second question you are been very specific.

The answer to your second question is NO... This is usage of plural and singular in a sentence. "ALL ARE COMMANDMENTS"
Chapter 7 verse 8 of Hebrew was specific as to COMMANDMENT(plural) no "S" So all it was talking about was the change of priesthood from Levi to Judah which also means from Aaron to Melchisedec that is now centered on Jesus as the high priest

God bless you. Now, lemme me show the reference is singular and it was referenced to tithe. Look at it,

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: vs 5

The commandment (in RED) is singular and is specific, TO TAKE TITHES.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. vs 18

Again, the commandment here in vs 18 is singular. Will it INCLUDED (but not limited to) TITHE or NOT?

christemmbassey: bro [size=20pt]Abraham never paid tithe, he gave a tenth[/size] of the spoils to melchizedeck as a 'gift' for coming to congratulate and bless him once and for all, if some one come to my house to congratulate me and i give him 1k out of my 10k as trans in appreciation is that a tithe? One can decide to give a dozen, a score or a tenth as a gift, but it is not meant for us to use and rob the guilibles. Bless u.

You see, these people that argues FOR tithe don't even know the difference between 'tenth' and 'tithe'. Yet, they just wanna argue,

@ Emmabassey,

I told you also, our brother Ola and other tithe teachers will keep going in circles. They will never answer the questions posed to them.

potentpraise: I think my response here should clarifies that: https://www.nairaland.com/1193734/god-accept-tithes-offerings-looters

We're still expounding on that thread!

^
I will not quote everything you said, but just this part,

potentpraise: Answer to your question

All in the table that Moses collected from God on the mount of Sinai are commandments, keep the sabbath day holy, leaven and unleaven, no one should bring blemish male goat for sacrifice all are commandments. But Hebrew 7 was not specifically talking about tithes. It was using the figurative and comparison of the lineage of Mechisedec and Aaron together that is why he used something common that they both did. Aaron and his sons the priests collected tithes and Melchizedek also collected tithes.. .. You will see that there was no comparison of burnt offering, because Mechisedec did not burn any. So the compare and contrast match well with tithes, but the main commandment of chapter 7 of Hebrew was that Jesus is the new highest priest who is now from the lineage of Judah.. He helps us carry our sin to God like Aaron and his sons did for the people of Israel in form of sin, burnt, trespass and peace offerings

First, you dodged my simple question. I asked you show tell me how many times 'commandment' is used in context of Hebrews 7 and to what is it referenced to/with in each usage.

Two, I understand PERFECTLY well that Hebrews 7 was on priesthood of Jesus Christ. I do understand that! Now, from your above and as highlight,

1. According to you and I quote, "[size=20pt]All[/size] in the table that Moses collected from God on the mount of Sinai [size=20pt]are commandments[/size], keep the sabbath day holy, leaven and unleaven, no one should bring blemish male goat for sacrifice [size=20pt]all are commandments[/size].

2. Will these COMMANDMENTS also include commandment to TAKE TITHES? - Yes or No?