₦airaland Forum

oprahchomy:
We should be careful the way we castigate and speak wrongly against men of god because you may be offending god burnt offerings and sacrifice are no longer accepted read your bible very well if you dont understand or accept dont partake rather than making conflicting statements,but those that partake understand the kingdomprinciples its working for them.Afterall the money are used for church maintenance,the needy too.so what will you say about first fruit ,are you aware that some people will give their firstfruits this month of january the first salary, when you see them prospering you will still speak evil.

With respect to you. I guess you probably dont understand the bible yourself. Am not into Holier than thou for the son of the living God hates self righteousness. The law and prophets are types and shadows of the real thing to come, which is Jesus. When you talked about first fruit, Jesus in the old testament is typifying the first fruit. Today's preacher interpreted to money. Please read Hebrews 10:1 to end. And also, Christ has fulfilled the FIRSTFRUIT of the OT.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Cor. 15:23

Pastor Kun:
@Goshen360
God bless you for this your relentless exposition on the fraud called tithes that as grown to become a monster in our churches and put God's children under bondage. As believers we have to keep contending for the truth and exposing those giving christianity a bad name cause of their greed.

Thank you. God bless you my PastorKun. You hardly see Jesus talked about money except for the area of tax and he used wisdom and said, Give unto caeser what belongs to caeser. The Kingdom of God must increase no matter what happens but more than anything, we need the end time messages filled with revelation instead of tradition of christianity. The church needs money but money has been the focus of many ministries today and we need to stand up against this even though we are not famous yet. I tell you the truth, should any of the famous pastors get this tithe revelation and decides to change, telling his congregation no more tithe, the same followers will come back here on nairaland and tell us tithe is not needed, that shows you how people are following pastors, not Jesus. My brother, we need work together. The bible says, a little leaven leavens up the whole lump, I need to go do your part and lets work together to spread this truth, if you are convinced on this matter. Please, print out my article and share with friends and family and let them study it on their own too. we are not trying to force believes into people but be an eye opener to our generation. God bless you, continue in the service of the Lord.

Am just seeing this thread anyway. In the name of God, I wonder if this "Joagbaje" guy is a true Christian. I don't mean to be rude anyway but am saying, if a man of God does something wrong under heaven and just because you attend his church and you come to defend such wrongs, I wonder what kind of Christian are you. Am so sorry this is happening. To see evil or wrongs and don't say it as it is, is evil itself.

olowolekan:
@Goshen.
Well my brother,May the Lord help us.You know what the Lord says in Mal 3:8-10.Mat 23:23.Please ,please and please pray now before this tithing is too late.Where I worship,we  dont contribute anything on sundays and we dont talk about money in Apostolic Faith Church.Sorry for mentioning my Church.Excert for while I was in Port-harcourt,no one has ever seen me drop my tithe.I am telling you the truth and nothing but the truth.In new testament,believer in Acts pay all.They laid all at the apostle feet.I am not a pastor but anyone who fails to pay tithe is a robber.

[b]CAN YOU PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS THE BELIEVERS PAID TITHE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. I AM WILLING TO HUMBLY LEARN THE TRUTH. WAITING FOR YOU SIR. THERE IS ALWAYS A PLACE FOR MONEY IN THE WORK OF GOD AND IN MINISTRY. THE BELIEVERS ARE WILLING IN HEART AND BROUGHT FREE WILL OFFERINGS OR GIVING. I HAVE SAID IT AND WE CAN LOOK INTO THE WORD OF GOD FOR OURSELVES. ALSO I SAID, IF ALL YOU GIVE TO GOD IS TITHE ALONE, THEN YOUR SALVATION IS QUESTIONABLE. GOD CAN TELL YOU TO GIVE ALL YOUR MONEY TO HIM, THEN YOU OBEY. OUTSIDE OF THAT, FREE WILL GIVING IS WHAT YOU SEE ALL THROUGH THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH, NOT GRUDGINGLY BUT AS EVERYONE PROPOSE IN HIS HEART AND ACCORDING AS THE LORD HAD BLESSED. THIS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT ORDER. THINGS ARE TIGHT FOR SOME PEOPLE B'COS ALL THEY GIVE TO GOD IS TITHE ONLY AND NOTHING MORE. I USED TO TITHE BEFORE BUT MY REVELATION JUST GOT BEYOND THAT. SIR, AM WAITING FOR YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS BELIEVERS PAID TITHES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT SO I CAN LEARN THE TRUTH.[/b]

honeric01:
uhmmm

if the churches clamoring on collecting tithes want to continue, then they should also be ready to pay all church workers too especially the choristers and the instrumentalists since they are also the levites and have claims to the tithe money.

also the widows and the widowers

also the fatherless, orphans and the sick.

that's what was going on in the "malachi 3" era.

GOD BLESS YOU. YOU ARE VERY CORRECT. FLESH AND BLOOD HAD NOT REVEALED TO YOU BUT OUR FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN. MANY PEOPLE QUOTE MALACHI BUT DON'T EVEN HAVE REVELATION ON MALACHI.

olowolekan:
Tithe and offering is biblical.[/b]You pay your tithes to God not pastors.You are not to decide how it is used.[b]This tithing of a thing will lead many to hell. Simple instruction from God. if you refuse to pay your tithe, then you are a robber and no robber will make Heaven.I[/b]f you have any problem as per tithing,please pray to God for guidance.Tithing should be secret.put it in envelope and drop.Write only tithe at the back.The lord that sees it in secret will reward you openly.You wont have the chance to restitute after death.Be wise.

Are you a student of the bible? I don't mean to be rude anyway. My brother, I don't debate the word of God but rather study the word, rightly divide the word of truth and follow/obey the truth. Just b'cos is written in the bible doesn't make it biblical teaching for new testament Christians today. If it is so, then we need follow other Mosaic laws also. We are to worship God in spirit and [b]in truth, John 4.24. The truth is, no one goes to hell without paying tithe as you mentioned. Where in the bible did Jesus say if you don't pay tithe, you are a robber and therefore you are candidate of hell. My brother, please get revelation. and relationship. It hurts the Lord when worshipers worship in ignorance. Is it your pastor who told you you go to hell without paying tithe or you are the one that read that from your bible? Jesus was on the mount of transfiguration with Elijah and Moses. Jesus representing Grace and salvation. Elijah representing Prophet and Moses representing the law. God spoke, this (Jesus) is my beloved son, HEAR YE HIM. This is the truth and this is the revelation. Tithe in the law is as good as other religious ceremonial functions that Christ has taken away and doesn't produce fruit to a believer under the new testament. It is a religious and financial bondage on God's people and traditions of men being taught in the Church today, it didn't start with the early Apostles of Christ. Giving (free will giving) is what Christ preached and also the Apostles.

oludy:
And I hate it when you say I shouldn't judge. Am not judging, I am just testing all spirits by the word of God.

My 2 cents.

Blessed are you for flesh and blood had not revealed this to you.


Acts 20:30

And from among you yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverted things to draw away the disciples after them.

Galatians 1:7

Which is not another gospel, only there are some who trouble you and desire to pervert the gospel of Christ.

Jude 1:4

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who of old have been written of beforehand for this judgment, [b]ungodly men, perverting the grace of our God into licentiousness [/b]and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=848459.msg10046589#msg10046589 date=1327512043]If it has been identified that these monsters are frudsters,should the people continue to pay their tithes to them ?[/quote]My brother, I want to tell you by the Spirit of God, that God is building His church and the gates of hell will never prevail. The knowledge will fill the earth and the truth will prevail. Gradually, people will come to revelation of this truth. Do your part, and I will do my part and gradually, it will spread all over again. If you dont mind, I will like you to print my article and distribute it to your friends you will like to talk to about this subject and let's educate people. This is how the truth will prevail and people will willing drop this issue of tithing. I tell you, it is financial bondage in the new testament church order form by Christ. Thank you.

^^^ God bless you. Just as many Christians would rather follow what their Pastors preach than to study for themselves. As basis of tithe was on food, let's assume we don't all do agriculture as their are many professions today which translated into money. The truth is, we are no more under the law and the preachers keep picking the tithe aspect of the law alone and sit on it. we need to rightly divide the word of truth. It won't be too difficult for Jesus to teach His disciples to tithe. It won't be too difficult for early Apostles to teach or continue in tithing should Jesus had taught it. I used to tithe in the past but recently found out it is just religious ceremony and doesn't produce new testament fruit in a believer.

Pre – Mosaic Law

Abel

In Genesis 4:3-7. Cain brought forth an offering from the fruit of the ground to the LORD and Abel brought the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. The LORD respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering, which caused Cain to become very angry.

The passage mentioned above, there is not a hint as to the amount being offered. Both fruit of the ground and flocks are acceptable offerings. One could point out that Abel brought blood and Cain did not. One could perhaps make something of the fact that Abel gave of his "first-born" while nothing is said about Cain’s offering. We could attempt to "spiritualize" here, meaning Abel offering as first-born which is spiritualized as a type of Christ but if we let the Scripture stand as it is with a "literal" interpretation, we do not have a "Biblical tithe" here. We have two offerings; one acceptable—one unacceptable. Hebrews 11: 4.

Abraham

We come to Abraham and his offering to Melchizedek, the king of Salem. There are those who say that, while we are not under the Mosaic Law, we Christians are children of faith. Our father in this faith is Abraham. They say that Abraham was a tither and therefore we must be tithers. Genesis 14 deals with a battle between 9 kings, five against four. Abraham, with 318 of his men, went after the four kings who spoiled the king of Sodom and the king of Gomorrah. Abraham defeated the kings, and set his nephew Lot free. On the way back with all the spoils of war, the king of Salem met Abraham in the king’s valley.

Here a mysterious king of Salem, priest of the God Most High, brought out bread and wine and blessed Abram. Abram then gave a tenth of those spoils to Melchizedek. Again, if we put this in spiritual content, Melchizedek is a type of Christ and king of Salem but Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Heb 7: 1- End, emphasis on 12-14, 17. Also remember was rich in Gen. 13:2 and we are not told it was by paying tithe that he became rich neither are we told he paid tithe before the account in Genesis 14.

[b]One thing is clear in this passage, these "spoils" were not the properties of Abraham and Abraham kept nothing! Furthermore, there is no reference in the bible that Abraham gave the king of Salem anything else, ever. In other words, there is no continuous tradition as practiced in today’s church prior to or after this event of giving a tenth of the spoils of war to the king Melchizedek. In addition, there is no directive anywhere in the Scriptures which grants the right for any human being to place themselves into the priesthood of Melchizedek commanding tithes of God’s people! The jump from this event to the modern day tradition of offering tithes to a pastor or head of an organization claiming this fulfills the event in Genesis is going way beyond literalism and way beyond "spiritualizing." It is nothing short of twisting the Scriptures for self-gain. Abraham didn’t give a "full tithe" of ten per cent. Abram gave it ALL away! It should also be noted, these spoils went to this mysterious king of Salem, not to a pastor, denominational headquarters, etc. There is not one record that Abraham did anything like this again. There is nothing in the bible up to this point to indicate that God wanted a tenth of everything a person owned. If He did want that, it seems it wouldn’t have been too difficult to simply state that He did, but He didn’t. Abraham offered a free-will offering of spoils of war to a mysterious king.

"I will take nothing from a thread to a sandal strap, and that I will not take anything that is yours, lest you should say, ‘I have made Abram rich.’" (Gen. 14:23)

The prophetic people here cannot see that, God was abolishing or not interested in slavery which is why God delivered Israelites from Egypt. Melchizedek as a type of Christ received everything Abraham conquered from the war because they became slaves and God is never interested in slavery so, he received everything from Abraham.

Abraham took several animals and cut them in half when making an agreement with God. Why do we not do the same in our modern Christianity yet we claim Abraham faith as to tithing. Why are tithing teachers so selective as to which ancient traditions they wish to place upon the backs of God’s people just because it suites their canal mind? We must rightly divide the Word of God of truth. Why do those who teach and practice tithing no longer practice slavery, and the killing of women and children as revealed previously? Well, perhaps they do, but most of the slaves do not realize they are slaves to a system which places burdens upon the backs of God’s people that He never placed upon their backs! Few Christians are aware of how spiritually dead they really until they come out of the graveyards in which they worship. The Abrahamic Covenant: The ratification of what we call the Abrahamic Covenant or the Covenant of Faith is found in Genesis 15. Not one single word is found about tithing. Many Christians who thinks they "decided" to follow Jesus, still doesn’t know what the Abrahamic Covenant is all about.[/b]

Jacob

We see the word tithe is found in Genesis 28:20-22.

"If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all you give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

If Abraham had taught his children to tithe, then Jacob had no business trying to make a deal with God. "You take good care of me and I’ll give you back 10 per cent." Jacob would have given tithe without conditions to God should Abraham had taught him tithe as commandment of God. Jacob, the heel-grabber made a conditional promise to God. We do not find God answering Jacob. There certainly is no indication whatsoever that any of his attempt to make a deal with God has anything to do with us apart from the fact that many of us seem to have the same nature Jacob had. We seem to play the same games with God that Jacob played. There are many truths we can learn from Jacob who would one day become Israel, but tithing is not something we can learn from him as there is not a single record that God commanded him to tithe and not a single record that he ever did tithe again as a way of today church continuous traditional practice.

The Mosaic Tithe

"Whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." The penalty is death! James 2:10

Those who want to use the Mosaic tithing system to finance their churches, ministers and ministries are not willing to accept the rest of the package. I am afraid it was, is, and always will be a package deal, all or none. If you don’t believe me, see what Paul called the Ten Commandments in 2 Corinthians 3:5-7.

"Our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious."

Old Testament studies tell us that tracing the "tithe" and how it was administered is "obscure." Yet many ministers quote two or three passages out of Leviticus, Exodus, or Malachi and tell us "tithing” and it should go to your local ‘church.’" Those of you who want to see for yourself rather just believing a preacher or a self made pastor because he said so rather than believing the word of God, will discover the following:

•   No tithe of any kind is found in the book of the covenant given by Moses which consist the Ten Commandments and various civil and religious requirements. Funds to provide for these activities came from free-will offerings. (Ex. Chapters 20-23, Ex. 34:22,29; 36:3,7)

•   Tithing system was instituted in Lev. 27:30-33 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’s. It is holy to the LORD. If a man wants at all to redeem any of his tithes, he shall add one-fifth to it. And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD."

•    Please note some very important things here. The tithe was specifically directed to the "land, whether of the seed of the land or the fruit of the tree," and the animals which ate of the land. God specifically did not mention the fishing, mining, tent-making, lumber, or various professional occupations even as we have today. The focus was a tenth of the seed and fruit of the land. Also note that if a person wanted to pay money instead of the actual produce, he had to pay 20 per cent more! Obviously money was not what God was after. Furthermore, regarding the animals, it was the tenth one which passed under the rod which was to be tithed. A man with less than 10 animals did not have to tithe his animals! Also note, he could not redeem the animals, that is, he could not give money instead of the actual animal.

•   When looking at all the Scriptures in the Bible that deal with tithing, only the owners of the land and animals had to tithe those items. Servants or slaves who worked that land did not tithe; the produce did not belong to them.

•   As Israel changed from nomads in the wilderness to a nation with boundaries and set cities, the regulations on tithing changed showing again there was never a set "Biblical tithe." Deuteronomy Chapters 12 and 14 tell us of some of the changes. Deuteronomy 12:8 tells us, "Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here (prior to entering Canaan) this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes." When Israel entered Canaan, they then set up a system which would distribute tithes, taxes, offerings, etc., which would logistically take care of a country 200 by 50 miles in area.

•   Due to the inconvenience of having to carry grain and animals perhaps as far as 100 miles, the 20 per cent surcharge for converting to cash was dropped. (Deut. 14:24,25) Furthermore, they were allowed to "spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household." (Deut. 14:26)

•   Deuteronomy Chapter 14:23 says in every third year the tithe of the produce was to be laid up for the Levite and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, that they may eat and be satisfied. Please note, we are talking about people not going hungry.

•   One of the purposes for the tithe was to provide for the Levites. The Levites received a smaller allotment of land than the other tribes. The Levites provided not only much of the religious functions of the community, but judicial, governmental, and educational as well. In other words, the tithe was also used for secular purposes. Levites were often musicians, administrators, architects, judges, teachers, scribes, doctors, what we would call "professional people" today. The Levite would tithe the tithe given him and give that to the priests. The priests did not have to tithe. I realize most people equate Levites with priests, but somewhere in the history of Israel, two different classes developed.

•   Those responsible for getting money out of their congregations often use Scriptures not even dealing with the tithe to teach tithing. The laws centering on first-fruits and first-born are different from the laws around the tithe. For firstlings, see Num. 3:12, 13, 40-45; 8:16-18. For first-fruits, see Lev. 23:10-14; Num. 18:12-28. If we re-institute all these Mosaic Laws dealing with trying to get something out of God’s people, why not re-institute all of them? Of course, that would be ridiculous. We would have to start slaughtering lambs and killing rebellious children. Remember, he who fails in one point of the Mosaic Law, is guilty of it all!

•   When the children of Israel were in their land, they were required to come to Jerusalem for three feasts each year. A portion of their tithe was to be used for them to rejoice! 10 per cent of gross income in addition to hefty federal, state, and local taxes is nothing to rejoice about especially since most churches don’t allow one to use a portion of the tithe to "rejoice with wine or similar drink." The Mosaic Law commanded the children of Israel to come to Jerusalem three times a year. How many pastors force their congregations to take a trip to Jerusalem three times a year. This was just as binding as the Biblical tithe.

•   In the seventh year, there was to be no planting, no reaping, and no tithing. (Lev. 25:1-7) Do tithe-preaching pastors give their congregation a break every 7 years? I haven’t met one yet. (I tell you they didn’t get their tithing teachings from the Bible!)

•   The Levites did not live completely off the tithe. They only ministered in the temple twice a year for a week at a time. (Ex. 23:14-17; Lev. 23; Deut. 16:16) They were allotted quite a bit of land around their home cities. (Num. 35:4) These fields belonged to the Levites for a perpetual possession. (Lev. 25:34)

•   Only Levites could receive the tithe! Jesus Christ himself could not receive the tithe because He was from the tribe of Judah. The Levites are gone. Even modern Jews cannot tithe to them anymore.

•   The Mosaic Law was till the “Promised Seed” should come and that was Jesus, the Messiah.

Malachi 3:8-10

"Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed you?’ "In tithes and offerings. For you have robbed me. Even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food/meat in my house, and try me now in this," says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you such a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.’"

If I try to spiritualize this text, we will get the full picture but let us leave it literally within context. Again, you can’t take scriptures out of context and sit on some verses to establish a doctrine. Please read the whole Malachi 3 and see what God is saying. ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION: EVER SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN TITHING TO YOUR PASTOR/DENOMINATION THINKING YOU ARE TITHING TO GOD, HAS THE BLESSING THAT FOLLOWS AFTER IN MAL 3:11-12 FOLLOWED AFTER? HAVE YOU BECOME SO BLESSED THAT ALL NATIONS CALLED YOU BLESSED? IT IS JUST A RELIGIOUS ROUTINE BASED ON IGNORANT.

The main focus of tithing throughout the Old Testament was food!!! Food for the Levites (which are no more today), food for the stranger, food for the widow, food for the orphan and God doesn’t change the subject in Malachi. The subject is still "food in My house." It is very sad that it never occurs to pastors of churches that the early church wasn’t concerned about choir robes, pews, organs, pastor retirement funds, building funds, retreats, new carpets, etc. They didn’t have any of these things nor did they want any of this stuff! Pastors who are so interested in that 10 per cent off the top are usually building their own kingdom which usually requires a lot of money. Jesus is building His church in an entirely different way, and He doesn’t need padded pews, stained glass and steeples to get the job done.

The next time a pastor has one of the elders, deacons, traveling financial counselor, or evangelist put the guilt on you about tithing, buy a truckload of wheat and dump it on the pulpit and see his reaction. "Food in my house." You would have fulfilled the Old Testament Law perfectly, if you were a landowner and it wasn’t the 7th year. If you brought the truckload in on the seventh year, you would have broken the law and would have been under a curse. This is not to say there is no proper place for money in ministries. Of course, there are many financial needs even in Holy Spirit directed works. How this money is raised and how well it is managed and for what purpose is the real issue.

New Covenant / Testament Tithing or free will giving?

"But woe unto you, Pharisee! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment, and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Luke 11:42 and Matthew 23:23)

[b]Jesus was born under the law. The law would not pass away, not even one jot or title until all things be fulfilled. Just because Jesus spoke in Matthew and Luke does not mean it is New Covenant teaching. The New Covenant is not the set of books from Matthew to Revelation! The New Covenant was not ratified until Jesus offered up His blood in heaven which was after His resurrection. Prior to that, the Old Covenant, and the Levitical Priesthood was still in effect. Hence, Jesus was fulfuling the Law of Moses and also the Prophets as the Law are shadows of the real thing to come, Jesus and fulfilling prophecies by the Prophets as the Mesiah. Jesus was fulfilling Law and prophets while in the process of establishing the New Covenant. (Hebrews 9:15-20 proves this truth) Jesus Himself said to do what those who sit in Moses seat said to do, but don’t do what they do. So, if they claim Jesus was justifying tithe in Matthew 23:23, how come He tells His disciples, today’s Christians not to do what they do in Matt. 23:1-4. [/b]

In Luke 11:42 and Matthew 23:23, Jesus was confronting the Pharisees here and not His disciples as there were six (6) categories of “Woes” Jesus gave to the Pharisees, Luke 11: 37-52. Why do teachers of tithe take tithes only among the 6 woes and not the rest of the woes? It should be pointed out at this time, that Jesus condemned the Pharisee who tithed even the smallest of seeds, but neglected other parts of the law dealing with proper judgment and the love of God as constituted in the laws of Moses: Food for the Levite, food for the stranger, food for the widow, food for the orphan Keep in mind that when Jesus told the people to do what those in Moses seat commanded that He was not condoning their commands and actions. He was acknowledging the authority that God set up. The Levitical priesthood was the valid agency set up by God Himself. But when the tree did not produce the fruit of the kingdom, He cursed it. When one studies the fruit of the Law of Moses and the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil, one will find great similarities and powerful truths. The law tells us what is good and evil, but it still can only bring us death for by the law "shall no one be justified."

Luke 18:12-14.

Another account of a tither in the improperly named "New Testament" occurs in Luke 18:12-14. Between the tither who "fasted twice a week and give tithes of all that I possess" and the publican, a sinner—it was the sinner who "went to his house justified" and not the tither. The writer of Hebrews spends a great deal of time explaining that the old system is but a "copy and shadow of the heavenly things." (Hebrews 8:5)

"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshippers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: ‘Sacrifice and offering you did not desire. But a body you have prepared for me, " (Hebrews 10:1-5)

How the early church was financed

[b]The New Testament church actually started in the Acts of the Apostles after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Men and women, as many as were willing hearted, willing offering unto the Lord. They brought free offerings. The stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much." When our Father’s people give according to His heart and do the work He has called us to do in His way, those offerings of the heart will be sufficient and more than sufficient. The keys are the willing heart and the proper work. Paul did not receive Tithes. Jesus never received tithes neither did we have record of Jesus paying tithes also. The life of Jesus should be a perfect example to us on giving. If He collected tithes, perhaps, a minister could make a reasonable argument for collecting tithes, but He did not. "Though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich." (2 Cor. 8:9) "Freely have ye received, freely give." (Matt. 10:[/b]

Those teaching tithing as a New Covenant law or principle are actually the very ones who are robbing God, robbing God’s people hence robbing God. How? Am glad you ask. Well, as many passages of Scriptures make abundantly clear, under the New Covenant, there is a new temple, new priesthood, and a new law. The Old Covenant had Levites and priests; the New Covenant has apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The New Covenant has "gifts of men." (Eph. 4:10-14). It also gave through the Holy Spirit "gifts to men." We find some of them listed in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12. This is the main list Pentecostals and Charismatic use to prove supernatural gifts are for today. Unfortunately, too few are aware of another list of gifts equally needful and equally New Testament. We find that list in Romans Chapter 12:4-8, emphasis on verse 8. Non-Charismatic and Pentecostals are probably more familiar with this list. One of the gifts listed is the gift of giving.

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophesy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness." (Rom. 12:4-

Now if the Holy Spirit divides the gifts as He wills, then different members of the body do different things and are equipped differently to do their job. The tithe demands, according to tithe proponents, 10 per cent off the top from everyone. But there are those who are specifically given the "gift of giving." What if God blesses a man in a business venture that makes that man a billionaire. What if God has given him the gift of giving and he is to give away 99 per cent of what he earns? But when he is taught that if you are a tither you are doing great, he will not actually give the full amount of what God called him to give! The man then ends up boasting in giving his ten per cent, is nominated to be treasurer of the church, and yet is not bearing the fullness of the gift he has been given to bless the body of Christ and the world. I believe there have been men and women in the body of Christ who should have given billions of dollars away who, because of this false teaching on tithing, have fallen short in fulfilling their giving.

So those who teach the tithe have lead many to live by the Mosaic Law instead of being lead by the Holy Spirit.
Those who teach the modern day tithe rob God’s people of the rest which He promised them. Christians striving to keep the Mosaic Law while at the same time trying to live the life of Grace are the most miserable of creatures. You see, Christians lead by the Holy Spirit cease from their works and enter into the works of the Lord prepared for them from the foundation of the world. A tither cannot enter this rest. They are always giving to something which will build a man’s kingdom, something which will produce pride instead of the fruit of righteousness.

Any work our Father gives us to do, He also gives us the means to do it. I heard a famous preacher in the USA say, If a preacher don't collect tithe, how can he do the work of God. This shows the motives behind their doing the work or calling. They are His works and we are blessed to partake in them. There is no striving even though the works may be difficult. But the works, which come from this law and grace mixture, of which this modern tithing teaching is certainly a part—these works are laborious indeed—except perhaps for the one who is collecting the proceeds from them and using them for their own kingdom building program—a kingdom made in the image of man that is destined to fall. Babylon is not being built by ancient Babylonians anymore; the building of the tower of Babel has been taken over by christendom.

A person who teaches tithing robs God’s people from hearing from God Himself about what and whom to give to each and every day. Someone who pays their taxes, and gives 10 per cent of their income to their pastor, plus offerings for missions, building fund, bake and rummage sales, etc., because the law or tradition of their organization pressures them to do so, is likely to develop an attitude that their giving is finished at the offering plate. They are so drained of finances that when Jesus arrives at their door for a piece of bread, their response might be, "Oh, I gave already at the church!" Laws such as the modern tithing law, instituted by either ignorant or deceiving ministers keep God’s children from hearing what they should be doing on a day to day basis! Tithing Teachers are robbing God’s people. Now repent and stop it! His mercy endures forever! Go to the fountain of Grace and discover how to enter into His rest yourself!

"Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them." (Ezekiel 34:2-4)

"My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; they have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill. They have forgotten their resting place. All who found them have devoured them." (Jeremiah 50:6-7)

This world needs Christians full of the works of the Lord prepared from the foundation of the world, not weak, beaten, and fleeced sheep who look like they haven’t had a day’s rest since they became Christians because they are always so busy building their minister’s kingdom while thinking they are doing God’s work. Yes, Mr. or Mrs. or Reverend Tithe Collector, I am being very hard right now. But so have you been! It is time for it to stop! Now! I am not speaking from a "holier than thou" position here.

Giving is done freely

Much of what goes on in the name of Christ is nothing more than wood, hay, and stubble. If you are giving out of fear or curse placed on you by hard task masters (often in the form of ministers), or giving in order to get more back or a host of other reasons for giving stemming from fear and selfishness, then you are free to stop giving. He can keep this universe going without your help, financial or otherwise. God does not want your money! It is all His anyway. We just keep forgetting that. Perhaps the grave is a good reminder of that fact. See how much of what you think is yours will still belong to you on the other side of the grave. Some of us will be amazed at our emptiness, how little we actually have gathered in this lifetime. It is not too late to begin gathering things that will be yours to keep on the other side. Begin to ask the Holy Spirit about these kinds of possessions.

God wants our hearts. And when He has our hearts, He will fill them with Himself and we will give because that is His nature. He is a giver. Apart from His giving, the universe would cease to exist. It is by the giving of Himself that all things are sustained. He wants to give Himself through us. Why? Because He wants to bless us! He wants us to experience what it is to be like Him. He pours Himself out to the object of His love. As we give Him to the world through our obedience to the Law of the New Covenant, the law of Love (John 15:12, 13), we give from His will, His gifts, His nature, His fruit, and we partake of it as we give it. He wants you to pass it on,  and He wants to give it back. How?

"’I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took me in; I was Unclad and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or Unclad and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." (Matt. 25:35-40)

Summary

Come to think of it. What is God worth in your life? Only 10% of your financial income? Certainly not. If all you give to God is just 10%, then your salvation is questionable that is, if you are born again because the nature of our God is giving. John 3:16. In summary, because the tithe as taught by modern churches is not the New Testament way of giving, it will not produce the fruit of the New Covenant, neither for the people who tithe, nor the "programs" for which the money is used. Should we give? Graciously and abundantly! Should we support those who true and genuine minister(s) the Gospel? Yes, even to the point of giving "double honor." They who preach the Gospel have a right to live from the Gospel (1Cor.9:3-13), even though it is often abused today.

All Christians must never forget, however, that those in leadership and those not in leadership are priests, a royal priesthood. You, my dear Christian brother or sister, are to be a blessing to the world because you are ladened with gifts from above which He has called you to manifest in the earth. It is time to stop supporting wolves in sheep's clothing and be about your Father’s business. This will restore the joy of your salvation.

Conclusion

John 6: 68-69. But Simon Peter answered Him “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the son of the living God”.

Peter made this statement of revelation at the time when many disciples are walking away from Jesus because they thought Jesus was too rigid and difficult to understand/follow and be His disciples, remember Jesus also had 70 disciples. Many Christians today are walking away from the truth of the revelation of Jesus, following their religious leaders who have put so many burdens on them. Then Jesus said,

"Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30, New Living translation) Take the yoke of Jesus today and you will find out Christianity is easy.


"Remember this—meager sowing means meager reaping; generous sowing means generous reaping. Each person must make up his own mind what he is going to give. He must not give as if giving hurt him, or as if the money was being forced out of him. God loves a man who enjoys giving. God can give you more than enough of every good gift, enough for you to have plenty for yourselves always and in any circumstances, and to have enough left over to contribute to every good cause." (2 Cor. 9:6-

"You must love your enemies; you must be kind to them; you must lend without hope of getting anything back. If you do that, you will receive a rich reward, and you will be like the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and to the mean. You must show yourself merciful, as your Father is merciful. Do not make a habit of judging people, and you will not be judged yourselves. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Be generous, and you will find others generous to you. Good measure, close-packed, and shaken down, brimming over, will be poured into your lap. You will get in exactly the same proportion as you give." (Luke 6:35-38)

THANK YOU. I WILL HUMBLY RECEIVE ANY ADDITIONAL TRUTH ON THIS TOPIC. IF ANY BODY THINKS IT IS HERESY, LET US REASON TOGETHER IN THE LIGHT OF THE WORD OF GOD.

Jesus lives forever and let that "LagosShia" of a guy come read this story/testimony. God is God.

Godliness with contentment is a great gain.

@ Poster,

As much as commentaries are good, they also have limitations in the sense that they present another man's thought of bible verse. Please use them with limitations, ok. Pray that God, through the Holy Ghost give you meanings and revelation of the word of God. I have come to understand that if the bible is written under or by the inspiration of Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost will never contradict itself, hence the unity of the bible is perfect. However, we know in part and prophesy in part.

Natural, Spiritual and Carnal man is man himself. Man is a spirit (spirit man), he has a soul/mind(natural man) and lives in a body(carnal/flesh man). So, carnal man is controlled by the five senses. That is why the word says we do not walk by sight(one of the five senses) but by faith. The carnal man also manifest works of the flesh. The natural man operate in his mind/soul and Paul said, be ye transformed, by the renewing of your mind. The spirit man is the real man that worship and communicate with God. God is a Spirit and they that worship must worship in spirit and in truth.

I hope this helped you.

In your spirit.

I think Obama desires to do more for this country. I love his speech, courage and achievements so far. He can do more if given the chance for 2nd term. I watched it and it was impressive though. He has always being known for great speeches anyway.

BERNIMOORE:
[b]@Habiola,

And others who thinks riches as used in the bible all means material riches.

Can you differentiate btw Material riches,and spiritual riches,or do you think the riches used in the bible are authomatically material riches?.


Matthew 6:24.

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

THE ATTACHMENT OFTEN DEMANDED BY MATERIAL RICHES, MAKES IT ALMOST IMPOSIBLE TO SERVE GOD.
 
1 John 2:15-17
15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

IN CONCLUSION,MATERIAL RICHES TAKES ENORMOUS EFFORT TO PROTECT FROM BEING TAKEN AWAY,ASK RICH PEOPLE INCLUDING PASTORS,THEY DONT TRUST ANYBODY,AND THAT MAKES THEM ERRONEOUSLY BREACH ''THE PROCEEDURES OF HANDLINGS CHURCH FUNDS''IN THE BIBLE,FUNDS ARE USUALLY HANDLED BY QUALIFIED OLDER MEN,BUT CONTRARY TO THAT, THEY CHOOSE THEIR WIFE ABOVE THE RANKS OF OTHER PASTORS AS A SIGNATORY TO CHURCH FUNDS IN THE BANKS,OTHER MINISTERING PASTORS ARE UNDER THE CONTROL OF A WOMAN WHO IS ALSO A WIFE TO THE MAIN PASTOR, NAME ANY RICH PASTOR THAT DOES NOT HAVE THEIR WIVES IN THE FINANCIAL ASPECT OF THE CHURCH,

ARE WE RUNNING A PROFITABLE COMPANY?

OR IT IS EITHER YOU HAVE A PASTOR AND PASTOR MRS,HAVE YOU EVER ASK WHERE THE NOTION OF LADY OR WOMAN PASTOR COMES FROM?

IT VIOLENTLY VIOLATES THE BIBLE INSTRUCTION OF THE EARLY CHRISTIANS,READ YOURSELF;

1 corinthians 14;34,35

34, Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

NOW THIS RICH PASTORS CHOOSE TO VIOLATES THIS INSTRUCTION,SO AS TO PAVE
WAY FOR THEIR WIFE TO RISE IN THE RANKS OF LEADING PASTORS OF A CHURCH TO BECOME 2ND IN COMMAND,TO SECURE THE WEALTH OF MONEIES ''IN THE FAMILY NAME'',
AND THIS IS JUST THE NORMAL PRACTICES OF THE RICH PASTORS,THEY IGNORE THE PARTERN SET OUT IN THE BIBLE TO FORM THEIR OWN ''WEALTH SECURITY'' SO WHERE IS GODS HOLY SPIRIT?

OTHER PASTORS ARE JUST ''FIGURE HEAD'' AND HANDICAPPED,IN THE CHURCH.

CONSIDER WHAT JESUS SAID ABOUT A MAN WHO WANT TO SERVE GOD;


21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

JESUS EXPOSE THIS ATTACHMENT TO RICHES AS A GREAT BARRIER,AND HE HAS DRAWN A BATTLELINE THAT 'NO ONE CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS'',MATERIAL RICHES (DEMANDS ALL YOUR HEART AND CONCETRATION TO KEEP IT INCREASING) IS ''ONE MASTER,AND SERVING GOD TRUTHFULLY(DEMANDS YOU TO FORGO ALL VICES LIKE CHEATING,LYING,REFUSE BRIBE AND DISHONESTY IN ALL FORM)THAT  IS ''ANOTHER MASTER''

JESUS YOU CANNOT SLAVE FOR THE TWO MASTERS.BUT SOME ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT JESUS SAID AND THEY SAY YOU CAN SLAVE FOR BOTH.

SOME EVEN ARGUED THAT WHAT JESUS IS SAYING ONLY CONCERN RICHES ''NOT GIVEN BY GOD''

BUT THEN,KING SOLOMON ONLY ASK FOR WISDOM FROM GOD,BUT GOD GAVE HIM GREAT RICHES.WHAT HAPPENED WHEN HE CHOOSE TO BE DISTRACTED BY THE RICHES,HE GOT MARRIED TO BEAUTIFUL WOMEN WHO SERVE IDOLS,''BECAUSE HIS RICHES CAN AFFORD THAT''  HE FINNALLY TURN AWAY FRO GOD TO WORSHIP IDOLS IN HIS OLD AGE.

WHY CANT WE TELL OURSELVES THE TRUTH? PASTORS AND MATERIAL RICHES? DOES JESUS AND HIS DISCIPLES LIVED A RICH LIFE? JESUS WOULD HAVE OWNED WAGONS OF CAMELS OR DONKEYS,BUT APART FROM ONLY ONCE THAT HE USE TO FUFILL THE PROPHESY WHEN HE ENTERED JERUSALEM,HE NEVER SEE HAVING THEM AS A NECCESITY,EVEN APOSTLE PAUL LIVED A SACRIFICING LIFE AND BE A TENTMAKER NOT TO BE 'A BURDEN',HE SURFER SHIPWRECK SEVERALY AND LABOURED.

YOU CANT BE ROME,MORE THAN THE POPE.[/b]

pro01:
@ Topic

Simply because being rich and godly at the same time is bad enough, but having a luxurious taste (private jets, bullet-proof cars, mansions, bodyguards, etc) and yet claiming to be godly is outrageously obnoxious. My idea of forsaking the world to follow God and win souls for Him means that you MUST also forsake the petty enjjoyments of the world as well as worldly, sinful indulgences. The colonial-era missionaries proved this point excellently, and I would be inspired by their example if ever I receive the 'calling' to be a man of God. These modern day charlatans that live the rockstar, Forbes billionaire lifestyle and yet claim to be 'pastors' are despicable to say the least. If a pastor must be rich, then he should be a Mike Adenuga converted to a pastor - i.e. with verifiable prior business success before the calling. And even at that, he MUST adopt the Warren Buffet lifestyle in spite of his wealth. There is simply no room for ostentation in God's work.

Wealth fespecially ostentatious wealth) and salvation is mostly like oil and water: they simply don't mix.

GOD BLESS YOU GUYS.

Azibalua:
Your tithe is not a giving you make it is a payment it does not belong to you.

What exactly are you saying? Tithe is not required in the new testament church order by Jesus christ. Did you read the article at all and you can also do your study, ok. We dont follow what pastors preach but what the word of God says. I hope you get it form the word of God by yourself and for yourself.

God bless you brother. We will continue in the words of our Lord and Savoiur Jesus Christ. Many things are going on in the body of Christ and we are to contend for the faith that was handed to us. Am also working on a lot of things in the word of God. Many things we see being practiced in the church today are wrong and we will continue to teach ourselves and other Christians.

^^^ Thanks you and God bless you. A lot of things are just wrong in the church today and I hope to bring them to revelation on this forum as time come and God giving me the grace. In my study of the church history to now, The church that was started by the Apostles of Jesus didnt practiced a lot of things we practice in the church today. Most of today's practice started after the Apostles died and greedy men hijacked the church of Jesus. Hence, we find ourselves in this 21st century with a wrong laid down tradition that is contrary to the order of Jesus and of the 1st century Apostles. God help us. The bible had said, men will pervert the truth and we hope to contend for the truth.

Yes, wisdom is the principal thing.

MAYOWAAK:
In view of the state of insecurity in the nation - the gruesome, unprecedented bomb blasts in Kano, and the military occupation of Ojota - Save Nigeria Group (SNG) has decided to call off tomorrow's protest.

The safety and security of our teeming members, allies, friends, and members of the public remains our utmost concern at this time, and we cannot give occasion to the wanton and reckless among us to unleash more death and grief.

We remain a law-abiding group and we firmly believe in non-violent peaceful protests. We therefore ask all our members to go about their normal business and keep out of harm's way.

Further information will be communicated shortly. God bless and keep you all.

http://www.facebook.com/savenigeriagroup

May his gentle soul rest in peace. God help us from all these mess in Jesus' name. (Amen)

John 3:1-5, NLT

1: There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee.

2: After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. "Rabbi," he said, "we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you."

3: Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God."

4: "What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus. "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?"

5: Jesus replied, "I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.


Man is a spirit, he has a soul and lives in a body. Our real being is spiritual but we posses a mind/soul and have flesh or body through which we communicate with outside world. By our first birth we were corrupt, shapen in sin; therefore we must be made new creatures. We are shapen in iniquity and sin, which makes it necessary that our nature be changed (born anew, born again). Birth is the beginning of life; to be born again, is to begin to live anew, as those who have lived much amiss, or to little purpose. We must have a new nature, new principles, new affections, new aims.

Nicodemus misunderstood Jesus and Jesus explained it well in another more detailed way. Verse 3, is to see but verse 5 is to enter. To be born of water (word) of God and to be born of the Spirit. As we carry sin or iniquity nature, when we read or listen to the word of God, the Holy Spirit convict us of our sin in our spirit and circumcise our spirit unto God. A great change is made in the spirit of a sinner, by the power of the Holy Spirit. It means that something is done in us, and for us, which we cannot do for ourselves. When this happens, we know it by easily forsake our old way of life, we turn anew and forsake sinful things we used to do. When this happens, it said that such man is born again and the fruit (evidence) is seen in the life of such man.

The truth is, many of us don't know or understand the bible times/ages: Gen to exodus 19 was Patriarchal age. ex 20 to the death of Jesus was Jewish or Israel age. Acts of the Apostle to the 2nd coming of Christ is Christian age. Jesus lived was born and lived under the Jewish age and separated it from the Christian age by his death on the cross. Jesus never taught His disciples to tithe and the early church never tithed. Any pastor who threaten people, people should just understand that it will never be of effect in Jesus name.

Pastor Kun:
The fact remains that tithes as it is preached today, remains the biggest institutionalised fraud in the history of mankind and it constitutes a big embarrassment and contradiction to true believers of the gospel of our lord Jesus christ hence the need to fight it and expose it for the fraud it is.

You are in the spirit. Tithing as far as the new testament believers are concerned is Old testament segregation, where preachers take some part and leave some things. Doesn't it surprise us that it doesn't take Jesus to teach tithe if Jesus wanted us to practice it. Jesus didn't came for the "good" most today's preacher came for "food".