₦airaland Forum

OmoPastor:
When will these people stop being childish in spiritual financial principles of the kingdom? Tithe and first fruit came before the law! Giving to the poor is one of the ways of plugging into the kingdoms finances.

Do you mind if we handle this rightly? We are not arguing the word of God but to enlighten ourselves, if you are willing to be corrected.

Just tell me where there the law actually started from?

Old testament divided at follows, just to help you:

Gen 1 - Ex 19 (where the nation of Israel came out of Egypt) called Patriarch Age
Exodus 20 to John 21:25 called the Age of Law
Acts of the Apostle to Revelation is the Christian Age

Now if you say, Tithes and firs fruit came before the law, it means you agree that we focus our discussion btw Gen 1 to Ex 19. It also mean, you fall to the category of those who say tithe paying is done not as to the Law age but as to the Patriarch age, right? Ok. Show me where tithe and first fruit occurred therein and we will look at it together. I know all the verses you are going to quote but will rather let you bring it up.

God bless you.

Joagbaje:
@ BERNIMOORE and FXKing2012


You're missing the whole point. Jesus was saying the Pharisees are too petty ,they gave tithes  even out of 10 kobo!.but yet they left out justice etc. He wasn't speaking against tithe. He was talking about balance. That has been my point .

Try read it in living bible.

Matthew 23:23
23 What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

Hope it's clear to you now

My brother, you are my good friend even though we disagree in the area of tithe. However, we are to learn from one another because the bible says, iron sharpens iron. Jesus was still living under the Old testament in the book of Matthew while he was setting up order for the new testament that will take effect after his death; for where there is no death of a testator, a testament or will is of no effect and besides, He was talking to the Pharisees and "WOE". I can go on and on regarding tithe but the truth is, Now that Jesus already fulfilled the law, why are we still trying to keep it ONLY in this area of tithe? I hope you answer me.

I just said, I personally do not like politics anyway. Anyone who can do it without being stain as a christian should go on. The fact that the man you mentioned did that horrible thing doesn't mean others cannot do it successfully as a christian.

^^^ You are right. God looks at the inward but man look on the outside.

OmoPastor:
The reason for this post is that I have seen an ordained pastor that went into politics with genuine intention but ended up snatching the ballot box on the day of election! He actually joined his party in rigging the election just for him to get a juicy post in the party.

I personally do not like politics anyway. However, any child of God who can do it faithfully is not condemned in the word of God.

Firstfruit and Lastfruit or whatever. ANY CHURCH OR MOG THAT MAKES GIVING COMPULSORY IS WOLVES IN SHEEP CLOTHING AND AFTER MONEY IN THE MINISTRY, says the word of God. I TRUST GOD TO EXPOSE MANY FALSE TEACHERS IN THESE LAST DAYS. WATCH OUT.

There is nothing wrong in Christians, pastor or not a pastor, to participate in politics. What is wrong is a Christian doing what politicians do. You can participate in politics without being corrupt like them. Remember, you are in the world but not of the world.

@ Pastor Kun

GOD BLESS YOU SO MUCH AND MAY YOU INCREASE IN THE WORD AND LIFE.

^^^ Yes, morality has died in our society because men behind pulpits have also prosti.tuted themselves with the world , hence they cannot preach against worldliness and a house divided against itself cannot stand. My heart bleeds that many are just running after prosperity gospel and are being snared everywhere by false prophets, forgetting or leaving "seek ye first the kingdom of God" And you know the kingdom of God is not in meat and drinking but in righteousness, "

God help us all.

God bless you.

^^^ God bless you greatly. Believe me, a time is coming and the time is now when knowledge will increase and any man deceiving God's people will be exposed. I HAVE WRITTEN ARTICLE ON TITHE AND REMAIN ON IT, TITHE IS NOT PART OF OUR FINANCIAL CHRISTIAN OBLIGATIONS IN TODAY'S CHRISTIAN AGE. MANY MEN OF GOD TEACH THIS LEAVING THE OTHER PARTS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT JUST TO FINANCE THEIR DENOMINATIONS AND UNGODLY PROJECTS.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

[quote author=liaslo++ link=topic=862878.msg10118466#msg10118466 date=1328350222]john 9:5
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”


after he is no longer in the world, what den is HE?[/quote]True and genuine Christians are the light of the world after He is no longer in the world. matt 5:14

^^^ I see all these nonsense among preachers in the USA. Jesus is the only way to the father (God). I can say that anywhere and time.

Same message I have been preaching. Tithes is no more required in the Christian age (new testament). Many moG are not just being truthful in these area. They teach it as a means to finance their denomination and ungodly projects. The only thing we have in Christian age is "GIVING". Giving to the poor, orphans, widows and the work of God. You can also give to a moG, if being led by the Holy Ghost. Why, they that are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God, and not a moG begging or asking you to give to him. Clear picture of the widow of Zerephat, it was God who spoke to the widow and Elijah at the same time.

Why do we Christians argue so much about this subject of "giving"? The words of our Master is clear enough without a rocket science or tongue speaking to understand it.

"GIVE AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN TO YOU, "

If you are born again and Spirit filled, the Holy Ghost will teach you. All you have to do is obey. Blessings come after obedience. If you choose to give to your pastors as led by the Holy Ghost, so be it. If you choose to give to poor, needy, orphans, widows, parent etc, as led by the Holy Ghost or even your heart, so be it. They that are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

The problem today is, many Christians will not just study the bible for themselves but will rather listen to self teaching and bible twisting pastors that are teaching out of greedy motives. Also, many Christians are snared out of their own greed for money. The bible say, Godliness with contentment is a GREAT GAIN. When a pastor teaches giving and don't tell you to give to the poor, orphan, widows, your parent but only teach you giving to bring to church or sow all kinds of seeds to the pastor or church alone, SUCH PASTOR IS FAKE AND AFTER MONEY ALONE. HOWEVER, TITHE IS NO MORE COMMANDED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIAN AGE THAT WE LIVE TODAY. We are now in the CHRISTIAN AGE, NOT UNDER THE PATRIARCH, LAW OR THE PROPHETS. Giving is biblical to the new testament Christians of today.

@ Joagbaje,

I sent you a adding request on yahoo. I hope we chat and reason together in the word of God. If you are not available now, you can add me and we chat later. mine is goshen360@yahoo.co.uk.

Shalom!

Luke 6:38, New Living Translation: Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full--pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back."

Giving is done as an act of obedience and love for God. When we give, we know from the word of God that we will receive or that God somehow will bless us in return but we are not to give with main motive of receiving back. If we do that, that will mean we are trading something for something, therefore making religion out of Christianity. Hence, our primary purpose/motive of giving will not be love from our heart,obedience to God and His word. The sovereignty of God determines our blessing when we act in obedience of giving. PLEASE GO AHEAD AND DO WHAT GOD WHISPERS TO YOUR HEART. I'M NOT AGAINST GIVING IN ANYWAY.

^^^ Are you a farmer? Farmers sow and expect to reap and even the harvest depends on God. It shows you don't even understand what I said. We are talking about giving here. We don't give to God with expectation of getting back. We give to God because we love God, it is the nature of God in us. We give in obedience to God's word.

Joagbaje:
Anything giving with expectation of a harvest  is a seed. Money or material. Money was given as seed several times in the bible

2 Corinthians 9:10
Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

Here you go again, We don't give with expectation to receive back and that is the greed that is used to snare God's people to give. We give as a nature of God and that we also love God. We also give because we are blessed not to be bless. We also give as obedient to God and His word.

Also, the bible verse you quote does not in any way indicate money is referred to as seed. He that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food and multiply your SEED SOWN. Stop taking scriptures out of context my brother, I LOVE YOU STILL.

OmoPastor:
@ plaettonyou first give yourself which is where many christians only give part of themselves to God

this is very vital cos your giving must not be done with murmurings but joyfully. where many miss it is when they want to know how monies that come into church is spent but i do not advise even my enemies to try this cos as a giver, my final destination is when i drop the seed and as i turn back all i see is my progress and prosperity.

My brother, please and please stop referring to money as seed or seed as money. It is UNSCRIPTURAL. Seed was referred to as many things in the bible but never money. You can as well refer to your s.p.e.r.m as seed cos it also referred to as seed in the bible and you can also sow it as well into the church or offering box. Nowhere money was referred to as seed. Giving is giving and it can be anything.

@ caropy,

Very true picture of how the word of God operates. Just like the widow of Zerephat. God told Elijah, Go to Zerephat, for I (God) have commanded her to feed you, ", It was God who commanded the widow to give and also God spoke to Elijah to go feed there. This is clear in obeying the voice of God. This is where we get blessed and not a gimmicks of pastors today. As a christian, there is an inner voice that will always speak to us to do something for God, obedience to that as being led by the Holy Spirit returns abundant blessings on us. I have experienced this also many times but it is not the same as pastors twisting scriptures.

1 Corinthians 13:3,
English Revised Version:
And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

James 1:27 ESV

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

New International Version: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

New Living Translation: Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

@ Joagbaje,
Again, that firstlings that Abel brought was pointing to Christ as a type. You can give money now and not disputing that but new order of first fruit is now Christ being fulfilled as the type in the Old testament even before the law and in the law of Moses. Does it surprise you that scriptures also called Christ a second Adam? meaning, he redeemed the first image and likeness of the first man, Adam, that fell.

There is certainly a place for money and giving money in the ministry but Christ has fulfilled the first fruit thing. Simply, a pastor should tell God's people the needs of the local church and allow God's people give as they are blessed, propose in their heart, cheerfully and willingly. This is what God loves and blesses. We do not argue the word of God but enlighten ourselves. However, let those who believe in so called first fruits keep doing it, all to the glory of God.

Hebrews 13:15
15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

[quote][/quote]Now, same Hebrews 13:15, NIV: Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise - the fruit of lips that confess his name.

We clearly see how you quote scriptures that has nothing to this topic. This verse is clear enough that, Through Jesus (that have being made our perfect figure), we should continue in worship (praise giving, thanksgiving) to God. This is talking about worship and not all of this first fruit thing. I maintain act of giving as taught by Christ and the Apostles. Jesus only simply said, "Give and it shall be given to you, " and so are the Apostles. Today, we fashion out many things from the bible just to favour ourselves, our ministry, our denominations and ungodly programmes. Let us stop putting burden on people that Christ has not placed on them. If God really sent you, God will make provision for the vision. I do not intend to talk so much on this any more. Be it unto you according to your faith.

Shalom!

@ Joagbaje,

God is on His throne watching and we will all give account of our work on earth someday. The word of God is truth and please stop telling people lies. There is place for money and giving in ministry and it is clear enough for all of us to read and study it from the book of acts of Apostles and other epistles. CHRIST IS OUR FRUIT FRUIT WHICH IS A TYPE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

1 Cor. 15:20-23: “But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.”

Very sorrowful that those who claim to have revelation of God's word certainly do not have nothing. I do not say this to down look anyone but religious leader are lovers of money and some of them actually wants means to finance their self called mission. Anyway, it is to the doing the work of God and am happy the gospel is being preached. The gospel was preached to me at a time and I have come to be a believer.

Old testaments are type and shadows of the real thing to come. God gave instruction to the Children of Israel to about first fruit in order to train up the heart of the Israelites in the way of OBEDIENCE. The truth of the matter is, greedy people for return of money are snared out of their own greed by greedy men of God. They say, sow seed and expect abundance in return. What do you expect from greedy people that wants more money to do? They will rush to first fruit and all kinds of seed sowing. Christ is the first fruit that God was pointing to in the old testament.

1 Cor. 15:20-23: “But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.”

There is certainly a place for giving in the church of God and I maintain that. Cheerful and willfull giving is what the early church practiced and that is what we ought to be doing. There is church or ministry here in the USA and UK (name withheld). The only thing they come on TV to preach is people sowing seed, in the name of spreading the gospel. All of the time i watch their invited preachers (names withheld), they always lift scriptures to backup their claim, use all sorts of date and numbers calling it prophetic numbers. They can say sow 365$ or Euro to mean 365 days of something something, they can say sow 2212 to mean February 2 2012. I watch them and I shake my head. They even promise you get 24hours miracle after sowing such seed as if they are the ones that gives the miracles. Also, they don't preach the gospel or come to ask for money except only on weekends when to me, they know people have their pay cheques every Friday in the USA here. This same ministry I talked about can air a particular same message like 4 times in a month. They will say sow seed of first fruit at once or sow it over the period of three months. If it is God who really ask for these first fruits, why do you tell people to give it over a certain period, breaking it down to ease burden? The Bible requires we hear the word and decide, not preachers telling us what exact figure or amount to give. When we love God, we will give freely and cheerfully to God's work and our poor neighbors.

plaetton:
I doubt if this Op is giving anything. He is a reciever and not a giver.
Genuine givers dont promote their intention to give before doing so. Fishy.
looks like a snake oil salesman trying to promote his product.
If he had any christian blood running through his veins, he would look around him and give to the so many needy in his midst.

Right on the spot. True and genuine Christians don't advertise themselves to the world. The world knows them by their fruit and deeds. That is how the name Christians came to be, because they were acting and behaving like Christ.

God help us. Babylonian system had eaten deep into Christianity and people cant even see themselves in the mirror of God's word.

And why do you have to bring it here to tell us before you even do it? I tell you the truth, you have your reward already before men. Do your giving in secret and your heavenly father that sees in the secret will reward you openly.

God have mercy.

I clearly understand scriptures beyond the quotes you are giving my brother, that is with no pride. What am saying is simple, When you are in Christ, being born again, the old things that are passed away also includes the curse that might be on any man. Now, you talked to the young man that started this post to get some deliverance after he is born again and that is where am concerned. The Old things that passed away includes curses and every old things you might think of. When the bible says old things, it really means old things except for when someone doesn't believe that old things are really passed away and the person still carry the consciousness that old curses are still working on him or her. This is what i wanted you to clear.

R.I.P. May their gentle souls rest in peace.

[quote author=i.chuka link=topic=858505.msg10114396#msg10114396 date=1328288959]@goshen360.
Death is a curse in our body that originated from sin/disobedience in the garden of Eden,any man born of human descent(of a man's will, of a man,of blood,) inherited it.[/quote]how does this translate to being cursed personally? What you are saying is a general issue that came from Adam. Jesus resurrection because he wasn't the seed of man and woman but seed of God. The poster is talking about breaking curse. I understand from the bible that, the spirit of a man is man himself, that is the original man. When God said, Adam the day you eat this fruit you will die. Adam eat and was still walking. Is God a liar? No. Adam died a spiritual death, cut off from God. So when a man becomes genuinely born again, Old things are passed away, including old curses of his life.

.

^^^The bible verse you just quoted never said a man is cursed in his body. It was the ground cursed for man's sake. Let us let that as it is but now, we have a new Adam.

So is a man still cursed after being born again? Remember, being born again takes place in the spirit of a man and you said the curse is in the body of a man. How come the body is still cursed after the spirit is born again unto God?

I really want to teach you the truth, and that is the reason am taking time to understand you very well. ok. Can you answer the above question again.