₦airaland Forum

muyoto:
Let me get something straight: If I give my 10% [i]willingly [/i]to my church, is it tithing or giving?

When you keep giving it with the mindset of you giving tithe, your blessing is not manifested because you are doing the right thing in a wrong way. You cannot give tithe as willful giving. Giving is different from tithing. Your giving can be more than what you call 10% or less, not necessarily 10% and also, not doing it as sunday sunday traditions. It is as much as you are willing and as much as you are blessed plus as you desire in your heart, not grudgingly or by force but willingly. You will then see God's manifestation in blessing.

AS A CHRISTIAN AND BECAUSE OF MANY FALSE/ MAN-MADE TEACHINGS AND DOCTRINES, I DECIDED TO DISCIPLE MYSELF AND DIG DEEP INTO THE WORD OF GOD. I USED TO PAY TITHE IN THE PAST BUT I FOUND OUT IN GOD'S WORD THAT TITHING DOESN'T BLESS THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH BUT FREE WILL GIVING DOES. PEOPLE OF GOD, MANY CHRISTIANS TODAY ARE NOT BLESSED B'COS THEY ARE TITHING AS RELIGIOUS ACTIVITIES THAT ARE YOKED ON THEM BY RELIGIOUS LEADERS. FREE WILL GIVING BLESSES NOT TITHE. MANY CHRISTIANS WOULD BELIEVE AND FOLLOW THEIR PASTOR/RELIGIOUS LEADERS RATHER THAN FOLLOW GOD AND HIS WORD. JUST BECAUSE A PASTOR LEADS YOU OR IS FAMOUS DOESN'T MEAN HE IS 100% RIGHT IN WHAT HE TEACHES. PLEASE STUDY THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF, IT MIGHT TAKE YOU SOME TIME TO GET THE TRUTH BUT SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH IN GOD'S WORD. I DID THIS INTENSIVE STUDY HERE:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-848459.0.html

One of their ways is also tithing. I dealt with tithing intensively. It s fraud in the church. Thanks

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https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-848459.0.html

I dealth with isssue of tithing in d church. it is fraud. Am a christian and born again, I did paid tithe up till recent that I found this truth. This is the reason why people are still poor because tithe to churches dont make people rich as the money are not channeled to right mind of God. Also, such advertisement is a Babylonia way of life, it is business structure and even those churches that have a lot of branches and ask their braches bring all tithes to headquaters are all into same system. All these Babylonian system entered the church after the main Apostles of Jesus all died and another kinds of spirit entered the church. Jesus never taught his disciples to tithe as it was not difficult for Jesus to do so. Jesus said, GIVE. Giving is different from tithing. We are the generation that seek the Lord and we will pull down the business structures of these wolves in sheep's clothing, it a matter of time.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-848459.0.html

I HAVE DEALT INTENSIVELY WITH THE TOPIC OF TITHE. IT IS A NEW WAY OF FRAUD IN THE MODERN CHURCH. IT WASNT PRACTICED BY THE EARLY APOSTLES OF JESUS. JESUS SPENT FEW YEARS IN MINISTRY, HOW COME YOU DID ASK YOURSELF OR YOUR PASTOR, IF IT WAS HARD FOR JESUS TO TEACH HIS APOSTLE TITHING? TITHING DOESN'T BLESS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH, WILL FREE GIVING DOES BLESS ABUNDANTLY.

2buff:
^^ No-one said anything about them paying "tithes to government". From what I remember they payed tithes to other ministries (a word which I defined earlier).
As God permitted it, society has evolved to the poiunt of Non-profit orgs being exempt from taxes, at least in this part of the world.

My dear brother, I cant remember Jesus asking us to pay tithe at all, not even to the point of paying to other ministries. We are staying within the context of the word of God. If they are giving to other ministries, that will mean to fulfill the word of God. Are you telling us what the bible says or what your denomination said? am not rude anyway. Giving is clearly different from tithing. Again, denominations or church that established business or profit oriented establishments are supposed to pay taxes to the government from such profit profit establishments, not doing that is not giving what belongs to Caesar to Caesar. I believe you are a student of the bible.

2buff:
And I have heard Oyedepo affirm that the church itself tithes. This, among other things, explains why that church still remains so successful through all this "stuff".


Cheers

To be honest with you in the light of God's word. THE CHURCH ITSELF IS WRONG TO PAY TITHE TO GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER. WHAT CHRIST DEMAND IS TAXES TO GOVERNMENT. PERCENTAGE OF TAXES IS MORE THAN 10% AS TO A CHURCH PAYING TITHE. SO IF THE CHURCH REALLY WANTS TO SINCERE AND TRUTHFUL, SHE SHOULD BE PAYING TAXES INSTEAD OF TITHE. THIS IS A CLEAR GIMMICK TO STILL CONTINUE TO LURE GOD'S PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO PAY TITHES TO THE DENOMINATION. WE CAN GO ON AND ON TO SEE THIS FROM THE WORD OF GOD.

^^^ As much as I agree with you on the above issue. The point remains, is it biblical to indoctrinate God's people to still practice tithe in the new testament, remember new testament started in Acts of the Apostles. If we see where the church from paid tithe from Acts of the Apostle to Revelation, show me and we look at it together. The truth is tithe today of teaching and traditions of men.

Introduction

Please don’t be quick to crucify me. Please give a little time to learn the word of God as I have taken time to research this out of the word of God. I am a Christian (born again) and I have decided to open the books of the Bible like the early Christian to see if church practices in our today's world are right. The tithe is a subject that is very dear to most church leaders. Those denominations that can get their members to actually bring in a full 10% of gross income can create very powerful forces far beyond their strength in numbers. One will not find the modern church tithe authorized in the Old Covenant, nor in the New Covenant.

Certainly, the history of the modern church which started in the book of Acts of the Apostles never practiced tithing as early believers. I hope to show you in this article that while many church fund-raising organizations and Christian financial counseling ministries tell us that not paying "the tithe" is robbing God, the actual Biblical facts are that those who teach tithing as a Christian doctrine are, in fact, the ones who are "robbing God." Many Christian leaders and denominations say that those who do not tithe are robbing God and will suffer curses for not doing so. Their idea is that the church is full of God robbers, that is, people who do not tithe 10 per cent of their income.

I am going to make a statement that will probably shock many Christians who have been in church for a long period of time and feel they know the bible pretty well. I hope this statement encourages the reader to "see for themselves" that this statement is 100 per cent biblically true. My hope is that when we see how far off Scriptural ground we have come in such basic Christian teachings as giving, we will renew our desire to study to "show ourselves approved." Here is the statement: The tithe as taught by most Christian denominations and leaders as being 10 per cent of gross or net income is not contained on the pages of the Bible! Again, most Christians leaders have simply held to tithing because it is a part in the Old Testament that suits them to raise more funds for their denominations and build their man empires. Furthermore, it reveals some aspects of Moses Law which they would prefer laymen not study too thoroughly. When a Christian truly begins to see the difference between the Old Covenant and New, deceitful ministers who use portions of the Old Covenant to hold God’s people in bondage, will become manifest. They do not want to be exposed.

They all refer to the same handful of Scriptures to justify their position. I will use the same scriptures as an examples of which are used to support their view and then show how these scriptures have not only been grossly taken out of context, but even these scriptures out of context do not support the teaching of tithing being 10% of income. We will then study the history of tithing in the Old Testament, the early church view on the subject, and what I have studied and believe is the correct biblical view on giving. PLEASE GET YOUR BIBLE TO OPEN ALONG. THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT BUT EXPOSITION AND IT IS GOING TO BE A STUDY TIME.

Body

Those who teach that Christians are obligated to tithe can be categorized into two main groups:

1. Those who say we are still under the Mosaic Law or portions of it.

2. Those who say the tithe is part of the Abrahamic Covenant which is pre-Mosaic law.

The latter group says the Abrahamic Covenant, being a covenant of faith, is valid for the church. They say Abraham was a tither. Therefore, we should tithe.

Pre – Mosaic Law

Abel

In Genesis 4:3-7. Cain brought forth an offering from the fruit of the ground to the LORD and Abel brought the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. The LORD respected Abel and his offering, but He did not respect Cain and his offering, which caused Cain to become very angry.

The passage mentioned above, there is not a hint as to the amount being offered. Both fruit of the ground and flocks are acceptable offerings. One could point out that Abel brought blood and Cain did not. One could perhaps make something of the fact that Abel gave of his "first-born" while nothing is said about Cain’s offering. We could attempt to "spiritualize" here, meaning Abel offering as first-born which is spiritualized as a type of Christ but if we let the Scripture stand as it is with a "literal" interpretation, we do not have a "Biblical tithe" here. We have two offerings; one acceptable—one unacceptable. Hebrews 11: 4.

Abraham

We come to Abraham and his offering to Melchizedek, the king of Salem. There are those who say that, while we are not under the Mosaic Law, we Christians are children of faith. Our father in this faith is Abraham. They say that Abraham was a tither and therefore we must be tithers. Genesis 14 deals with a battle between 9 kings, five against four. Abraham, with 318 of his men, went after the four kings who spoiled the king of Sodom and the king of Gomorrah. Abraham defeated the kings, and set his nephew Lot free. On the way back with all the spoils of war, the king of Salem met Abraham in the king’s valley.

Here a mysterious king of Salem, priest of the God Most High, brought out bread and wine and blessed Abram. Abram then gave a tenth of those spoils to Melchizedek. Again, if we put this in spiritual content, Melchizedek is a type of Christ and king of Salem but Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Heb 7: 1- End, emphasis on 12-14, 17. Also remember was rich in Gen. 13:2 and we are not told it was by paying tithe that he became rich neither are we told he paid tithe before the account in Genesis 14.

One thing is clear in this passage, these "spoils" were not the properties of Abraham and Abraham kept nothing! Furthermore, there is no reference in the bible that Abraham gave the king of Salem anything else, ever. In other words, there is no continuous tradition as practiced in today’s church prior to or after this event of giving a tenth of the spoils of war to the king Melchizedek. In addition, there is no directive anywhere in the Scriptures which grants the right for any human being to place themselves into the priesthood of Melchizedek commanding tithes of God’s people! The jump from this event to the modern day tradition of offering tithes to a pastor or head of an organization claiming this fulfills the event in Genesis is going way beyond literalism and way beyond "spiritualizing." It is nothing short of twisting the Scriptures for self-gain. Abraham didn’t give a "full tithe" of ten per cent. Abram gave it ALL away! It should also be noted, these spoils went to this mysterious king of Salem, not to a pastor, denominational headquarters, etc. There is not one record that Abraham did anything like this again. There is nothing in the bible up to this point to indicate that God wanted a tenth of everything a person owned. If He did want that, it seems it wouldn’t have been too difficult to simply state that He did, but He didn’t. Abraham offered a free-will offering of spoils of war to a mysterious king.

"I will take nothing from a thread to a sandal strap, and that I will not take anything that is yours, lest you should say, ‘I have made Abram rich.’" (Gen. 14:23)

The prophetic people here cannot see that, God was abolishing or not interested in slavery which is why God delivered Israelites from Egypt. Melchizedek as a type of Christ received everything Abraham conquered from the war because they became slaves and God is never interested in slavery so, he received everything from Abraham.

Abraham took several animals and cut them in half when making an agreement with God. Why do we not do the same in our modern Christianity yet we claim Abraham faith as to tithing. Why are tithing teachers so selective as to which ancient traditions they wish to place upon the backs of God’s people just because it suites their canal mind? We must rightly divide the Word of God of truth. Why do those who teach and practice tithing no longer practice slavery, and the killing of women and children as revealed previously? Well, perhaps they do, but most of the slaves do not realize they are slaves to a system which places burdens upon the backs of God’s people that He never placed upon their backs! Few Christians are aware of how spiritually dead they really until they come out of the graveyards in which they worship. The Abrahamic Covenant: The ratification of what we call the Abrahamic Covenant or the Covenant of Faith is found in Genesis 15. Not one single word is found about tithing. Many Christians who thinks they "decided" to follow Jesus, still doesn’t know what the Abrahamic Covenant is all about.

Jacob

We see the word tithe is found in Genesis 28:20-22.

"If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all you give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

If Abraham had taught his children to tithe, then Jacob had no business trying to make a deal with God. "You take good care of me and I’ll give you back 10 per cent." Jacob would have given tithe without conditions to God should Abraham had taught him tithe as commandment of God. Jacob, the heel-grabber made a conditional promise to God. We do not find God answering Jacob. There certainly is no indication whatsoever that any of his attempt to make a deal with God has anything to do with us apart from the fact that many of us seem to have the same nature Jacob had. We seem to play the same games with God that Jacob played. There are many truths we can learn from Jacob who would one day become Israel, but tithing is not something we can learn from him as there is not a single record that God commanded him to tithe and not a single record that he ever did tithe again as a way of today church continuous traditional practice.

The Mosaic Tithe

"Whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." The penalty is death! James 2:10

Those who want to use the Mosaic tithing system to finance their churches, ministers and ministries are not willing to accept the rest of the package. I am afraid it was, is, and always will be a package deal, all or none. If you don’t believe me, see what Paul called the Ten Commandments in 2 Corinthians 3:5-7.

"Our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious."

Old Testament studies tell us that tracing the "tithe" and how it was administered is "obscure." Yet many ministers quote two or three passages out of Leviticus, Exodus, or Malachi and tell us "tithing” and it should go to your local ‘church.’" Those of you who want to see for yourself rather just believing a preacher or a self made pastor because he said so rather than believing the word of God, will discover the following:

• No tithe of any kind is found in the book of the covenant given by Moses which consist the Ten Commandments and various civil and religious requirements. Funds to provide for these activities came from free-will offerings. (Ex. Chapters 20-23, Ex. 34:22,29; 36:3,7)

• Tithing system was instituted in Lev. 27:30-33 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’s. It is holy to the LORD. If a man wants at all to redeem any of his tithes, he shall add one-fifth to it. And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD."

• Please note some very important things here. The tithe was specifically directed to the "land, whether of the seed of the land or the fruit of the tree," and the animals which ate of the land. God specifically did not mention the fishing, mining, tent-making, lumber, or various professional occupations even as we have today. The focus was a tenth of the seed and fruit of the land. Also note that if a person wanted to pay money instead of the actual produce, he had to pay 20 per cent more! Obviously money was not what God was after. Furthermore, regarding the animals, it was the tenth one which passed under the rod which was to be tithed. A man with less than 10 animals did not have to tithe his animals! Also note, he could not redeem the animals, that is, he could not give money instead of the actual animal.

• When looking at all the Scriptures in the Bible that deal with tithing, only the owners of the land and animals had to tithe those items. Servants or slaves who worked that land did not tithe; the produce did not belong to them.

• As Israel changed from nomads in the wilderness to a nation with boundaries and set cities, the regulations on tithing changed showing again there was never a set "Biblical tithe." Deuteronomy Chapters 12 and 14 tell us of some of the changes. Deuteronomy 12:8 tells us, "Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here (prior to entering Canaan) this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes." When Israel entered Canaan, they then set up a system which would distribute tithes, taxes, offerings, etc., which would logistically take care of a country 200 by 50 miles in area.

• Due to the inconvenience of having to carry grain and animals perhaps as far as 100 miles, the 20 per cent surcharge for converting to cash was dropped. (Deut. 14:24,25) Furthermore, they were allowed to "spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household." (Deut. 14:26)

• Deuteronomy Chapter 14:23 says in every third year the tithe of the produce was to be laid up for the Levite and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, that they may eat and be satisfied. Please note, we are talking about people not going hungry.

• One of the purposes for the tithe was to provide for the Levites. The Levites received a smaller allotment of land than the other tribes. The Levites provided not only much of the religious functions of the community, but judicial, governmental, and educational as well. In other words, the tithe was also used for secular purposes. Levites were often musicians, administrators, architects, judges, teachers, scribes, doctors, what we would call "professional people" today. The Levite would tithe the tithe given him and give that to the priests. The priests did not have to tithe. I realize most people equate Levites with priests, but somewhere in the history of Israel, two different classes developed.

• Those responsible for getting money out of their congregations often use Scriptures not even dealing with the tithe to teach tithing. The laws centering on first-fruits and first-born are different from the laws around the tithe. For firstlings, see Num. 3:12, 13, 40-45; 8:16-18. For first-fruits, see Lev. 23:10-14; Num. 18:12-28. If we re-institute all these Mosaic Laws dealing with trying to get something out of God’s people, why not re-institute all of them? Of course, that would be ridiculous. We would have to start slaughtering lambs and killing rebellious children. Remember, he who fails in one point of the Mosaic Law, is guilty of it all!

• When the children of Israel were in their land, they were required to come to Jerusalem for three feasts each year. A portion of their tithe was to be used for them to rejoice! 10 per cent of gross income in addition to hefty federal, state, and local taxes is nothing to rejoice about especially since most churches don’t allow one to use a portion of the tithe to "rejoice with wine or similar drink." The Mosaic Law commanded the children of Israel to come to Jerusalem three times a year. How many pastors force their congregations to take a trip to Jerusalem three times a year. This was just as binding as the Biblical tithe.

• In the seventh year, there was to be no planting, no reaping, and no tithing. (Lev. 25:1-7) Do tithe-preaching pastors give their congregation a break every 7 years? I haven’t met one yet. (I tell you they didn’t get their tithing teachings from the Bible!)

• The Levites did not live completely off the tithe. They only ministered in the temple twice a year for a week at a time. (Ex. 23:14-17; Lev. 23; Deut. 16:16) They were allotted quite a bit of land around their home cities. (Num. 35:4) These fields belonged to the Levites for a perpetual possession. (Lev. 25:34)

• Only Levites could receive the tithe! Jesus Christ himself could not receive the tithe because He was from the tribe of Judah. The Levites are gone. Even modern Jews cannot tithe to them anymore.

• The Mosaic Law was till the “Promised Seed” should come and that was Jesus, the Messiah.

Malachi 3:8-10

"Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed you?’ "In tithes and offerings. For you have robbed me. Even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food/meat in my house, and try me now in this," says the Lord of hosts, "If I will not open for you such a blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it.’"

If I try to spiritualize this text, we will get the full picture but let us leave it literally within text. Again, you can’t take scriptures out of context and sit on some verses to establish a doctrine. Please read the whole Malachi 3 and see what God is saying. ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION: EVER SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN TITHING TO YOUR PASTOR/DENOMINATION THINKING YOU ARE TITHING TO GOD, HAS THE BLESSING THAT FOLLOWS AFTER IN MAL 3:11-12 FOLLOWED AFTER? HAVE YOU BECOME SO BLESSED THAT ALL NATIONS CALLED YOU BLESSED?

The main focus of tithing throughout the Old Testament was food!!! Food for the Levite, food for the stranger, food for the widow, food for the orphan and God doesn’t change the subject in Malachi. The subject is still "food in My house." It is very sad that it never occurs to pastors of churches that the early church wasn’t concerned about choir robes, pews, organs, pastor retirement funds, building funds, retreats, new carpets, etc. They didn’t have any of these things nor did they want any of this stuff! Pastors who are so interested in that 10 per cent off the top are usually building their own kingdom which usually requires a lot of money. Jesus is building His church in an entirely different way, and He doesn’t need padded pews, stained glass and steeples to get the job done.

The next time a pastor has one of the elders, deacons, traveling financial counselor, or evangelist put the guilt on you about tithing, buy a truckload of wheat and dump it on the pulpit and see his reaction. "Food in my house." You would have fulfilled the Old Testament Law perfectly, if you were a landowner and it wasn’t the 7th year. If you brought the truckload in on the seventh year, you would have broken the law and would have been under a curse. This is not to say there is no proper place for money in ministries. Of course, there are many financial needs even in Holy Spirit directed works. How this money is raised and how well it is managed and for what purpose is the real issue.

New Covenant / Testament Tithing or free will giving?

"But woe unto you, Pharisee! For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment, and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Luke 11:42 and Matthew 23:23)

Jesus was born under the law. The law would not pass away, not even one jot or title until all things be fulfilled. Just because Jesus spoke in Matthew and Luke does not mean it is New Covenant teaching. The New Covenant is not the set of books from Matthew to Revelation! The New Covenant was not ratified until Jesus offered up His blood in heaven which was after His resurrection. Prior to that, the Old Covenant, and the Levitical Priesthood was still in effect. Hence, Jesus was fulfuling the Law of Moses and also the Prophets as the Law are shadows of the real thing to come, Jesus and fulfilling prophecies by the Prophets as the Mesiah. Jesus was fulfilling Law and prophets while in the process of establishing the New Covenant. (Hebrews 9:15-20 proves this truth) Jesus Himself said to do what those who sit in Moses seat said to do, but don’t do what they do. So, if they claim Jesus was justifying tithe in Matthew 23:23, how come He tells His disciples, today’s Christians not to do what they do in Matt. 23:1-4.

First, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees here and not His disciples as there were six (6) categories of “Woes” Jesus gave to the Pharisees, Luke 11: 37-52. Why do teachers of tithe take tithes only among the 6 woes and not the rest of the woes? It should be pointed out at this time, that Jesus condemned the Pharisee who tithed even the smallest of seeds, but neglected other parts of the law dealing with proper judgment and the love of God as constituted in the laws of Moses: Food for the Levite, food for the stranger, food for the widow, food for the orphan Keep in mind that when Jesus told the people to do what those in Moses seat commanded that He was not condoning their commands and actions. He was acknowledging the authority that God set up. The Levitical priesthood was the valid agency set up by God Himself. But when the tree did not produce the fruit of the kingdom, He cursed it. When one studies the fruit of the Law of Moses and the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil, one will find great similarities and powerful truths. The law tells us what is good and evil, but it still can only bring us death for by the law "shall no one be justified."

Luke 18:12-14.

Another account of a tither in the improperly named "New Testament" occurs in Luke 18:12-14. Between the tither who "fasted twice a week and give tithes of all that I possess" and the publican, a sinner—it was the sinner who "went to his house justified" and not the tither. The writer of Hebrews spends a great deal of time explaining that the old system is but a "copy and shadow of the heavenly things." (Hebrews 8:5)

"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshippers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: ‘Sacrifice and offering you did not desire. But a body you have prepared for me, " (Hebrews 10:1-5)

How the early church was financed

The New Testament church actually started in the Acts of the Apostles after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Men and women, as many as were willing hearted, willing offering unto the Lord , They brought free offerings. The stuff they had was sufficient for all the work to make it, and too much." When our Father’s people give according to His heart and do the work He has called us to do in His way, those offerings of the heart will be sufficient and more than sufficient. The keys are the willing heart and the proper work. Paul did not receive Tithes. Jesus never received tithes neither did we have record of Jesus paying tithes also. The life of Jesus should be a perfect example to us on giving. If He collected tithes, perhaps, a minister could make a reasonable argument for collecting tithes, but He did not. "Though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich." (2 Cor. 8:9) "Freely have ye received, freely give." (Matt. 10:

Those teaching tithing as a New Covenant law or principle are actually the very ones who are robbing God, robbing God’s people hence robbing God. How? Am glad you ask. Well, as many passages of Scriptures make abundantly clear, under the New Covenant, there is a new temple, new priesthood, and a new law. The Old Covenant had Levites and priests; the New Covenant has apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. The New Covenant has "gifts of men." (Eph. 4: It also gave through the Holy Spirit "gifts to men." We find some of them listed in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12. This is the main list Pentecostals and Charismatic use to prove supernatural gifts are for today. Unfortunately, too few are aware of another list of gifts equally needful and equally New Testament. We find that list in Romans Chapter 12:4-8. Non-Charismatic and Pentecostals are probably more familiar with this list. One of the gifts listed is the gift of giving.

"Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophesy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness." (Rom. 12:

Now if the Holy Spirit divides the gifts as He wills, then different members of the body do different things and are equipped differently to do their job. The tithe demands, according to tithe proponents, 10 per cent off the top from everyone. But there are those who are specifically given the "gift of giving." What if God blesses a man in a business venture that makes that man a billionaire. What if God has given him the gift of giving and he is to give away 99 per cent of what he earns? But when he is taught that if you are a tither you are doing great, he will not actually give the full amount of what God called him to give! The man then ends up boasting in giving his ten per cent, is nominated to be treasurer of the church, and yet is not bearing the fullness of the gift he has been given to bless the body of Christ and the world. I believe there have been men and women in the body of Christ who should have given billions of dollars away who, because of this false teaching on tithing, have fallen short in fulfilling their giving.

So those who teach the tithe have lead many to live by the Mosaic Law instead of being lead by the Holy Spirit.
Those who teach the modern day tithe rob God’s people of the rest which He promised them. Christians striving to keep the Mosaic Law while at the same time trying to live the life of Grace are the most miserable of creatures. You see, Christians lead by the Holy Spirit cease from their works and enter into the works of the Lord prepared for them from the foundation of the world. A tither cannot enter this rest. They are always giving to something which will build a man’s kingdom, something which will produce pride instead of the fruit of righteousness.

Any work our Father gives us to do, He also gives us the means to do it. They are His works and we are blessed to partake in them. There is no striving even though the works may be difficult. But the works, which come from this law and grace mixture, of which this modern tithing teaching is certainly a part—these works are laborious indeed—except perhaps for the one who is collecting the proceeds from them and using them for their own kingdom building program—a kingdom made in the image of man that is destined to fall. Babylon is not being built by ancient Babylonians anymore; the building of the tower of Babel has been taken over by christendom.

A person who teaches tithing robs God’s people from hearing from God Himself about what and whom to give to each and every day. Someone who pays their taxes, and gives 10 per cent of their income to their pastor, plus offerings for missions, building fund, bake and rummage sales, etc., because the law or tradition of their organization pressures them to do so, is likely to develop an attitude that their giving is finished at the offering plate. They are so drained of finances that when Jesus arrives at their door for a piece of bread, their response might be, "Oh, I gave already at the church!" Laws such as the modern tithing law, instituted by either ignorant or deceiving ministers keep God’s children from hearing what they should be doing on a day to day basis! Tithing Teachers are robbing God’s people. Now repent and stop it! His mercy endures forever! Go to the fountain of Grace and discover how to enter into His rest yourself!

"Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them." (Ezekiel 34:2-4)

"My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; they have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill. They have forgotten their resting place. All who found them have devoured them." (Jeremiah 50:6-7)

This world needs Christians full of the works of the Lord prepared from the foundation of the world, not weak, beaten, and fleeced sheep who look like they haven’t had a day’s rest since they became Christians because they are always so busy building their minister’s kingdom while thinking they are doing God’s work. Yes, Mr. or Mrs. or Reverend Tithe Collector, I am being very hard right now. But so have you been! It is time for it to stop! Now! I am not speaking from a "holier than thou" position here.

Giving is done freely

Much of what goes on in the name of Christ is nothing more than wood, hay, and stubble. If you are giving out of fear or curse placed on you by hard task masters (often in the form of ministers), or giving in order to get more back or a host of other reasons for giving stemming from fear and selfishness, then you are free to stop giving. He can keep this universe going without your help, financial or otherwise. God does not want your money! It is all His anyway. We just keep forgetting that. Perhaps the grave is a good reminder of that fact. See how much of what you think is yours will still belong to you on the other side of the grave. Some of us will be amazed at our emptiness, how little we actually have gathered in this lifetime. It is not too late to begin gathering things that will be yours to keep on the other side. Begin to ask the Holy Spirit about these kinds of possessions.

God wants our hearts. And when He has our hearts, He will fill them with Himself and we will give because that is His nature. He is a giver. Apart from His giving, the universe would cease to exist. It is by the giving of Himself that all things are sustained. He wants to give Himself through us. Why? Because He wants to bless us! He wants us to experience what it is to be like Him. He pours Himself out to the object of His love. As we give Him to the world through our obedience to the Law of the New Covenant, the law of Love (John 15:12, 13), we give from His will, His gifts, His nature, His fruit, and we partake of it as we give it. He wants you to pass it on, and He wants to give it back. How?

"’I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." (Matt. 25:35-40)

Summary

Come to think of it. What is God worth in your life? Only 10% of your financial income? Certainly not. If all you give to God is just 10%, then your salvation is questionable if you are born again because the nature of our God is giving. John 3:16. In summary, because the tithe as taught by modern churches is not the New Testament way of giving, it will not produce the fruit of the New Covenant, neither for the people who tithe, nor the "programs" for which the money is used. Should we give? Graciously and abundantly! Should we support those who true and genuine minister(s) the Gospel? Yes, even to the point of giving "double honor." They who preach the Gospel have a right to live from the Gospel (1Cor.9:3-13), even though it is often abused today.

All Christians must never forget, however, that those in leadership and those not in leadership are priests, a royal priesthood. You, my dear Christian brother or sister, are to be a blessing to the world because you are ladened with gifts from above which He has called you to manifest in the earth. It is time to stop supporting wolves in sheep's clothing and be about your Father’s business. This will restore the joy of your salvation.

Conclusion

John 6: 68-69. But Simon Peter answered Him “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the son of the living God”.

Peter made this statement of revelation at the time when many disciples are walking away from Jesus because they thought Jesus was too rigid and difficult to understand/follow or be His disciples, remember Jesus also had 70 disciples. Many Christians today are walking away from the truth of the revelation of Jesus, following their religious leaders who have put so many burdens on them. Then Jesus said,

"Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30, New Living translation) Take the yoke of Jesus today and you will find out Christianity is easy.

"Remember this—meager sowing means meager reaping; generous sowing means generous reaping. Each person must make up his own mind what he is going to give. He must not give as if giving hurt him, or as if the money was being forced out of him. God loves a man who enjoys giving. God can give you more than enough of every good gift, enough for you to have plenty for yourselves always and in any circumstances, and to have enough left over to contribute to every good cause." (2 Cor. 9:6-

"You must love your enemies; you must be kind to them; you must lend without hope of getting anything back. If you do that, you will receive a rich reward, and you will be like the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and to the mean. You must show yourself merciful, as your Father is merciful. Do not make a habit of judging people, and you will not be judged yourselves. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Be generous, and you will find others generous to you. Good measure, close-packed, and shaken down, brimming over, will be poured into your lap. You will get in exactly the same proportion as you give." (Luke 6:35-38)

You don't embrace Christianity on conditions but on CONVICTIONS.

Go and read revelation. Christ message to the churches. Pls dont take some part of the scripture and dwell on it. We cannot continue in sin and demand grace to abound. Without Holliness, no man shall see God. Hence, onced saved is not forever saved. Salvation is each context means different things.

numo86:
Let payers of tithes ask themselves this serious questions,
1, why was d command to pay tithe instituted by God??
2, who were to recieve tithes
3, why did d apostles and early christians never pay tithe just like d nation of isreal did?
4, in what way are christians to fund Gods work today as was done in d 1st century??
, seriously examinin these questions will help us find out if christians are still under obligation to pay tithes or not,

1. God instituted tithe to carter for the poor, orphans, widows and levites in the old testament.
2. Same as (1) are to receive the tithes or the tithes to directed towards.
3. The Apostles and early christians never paid tithes cos is not a new testament order. Jesus rarely talked about money to his disciples and rarely taught money except for taxes.
4. Christians are to fund God's work today through offerings and willful giving according to their pockets.


Am writing a book on tithe and gimmick of the modern day pastors, the truth they are not speaking on tithes. Tithe is not demanded in the new testament church, hence it is modern day fraud in the church of God. Only willful giving and that is where the blessing of God lies, not in tithe. As a matter of fact, does God only worth ten percent only? certainly not.

Am compiling a book on tithe and the truth your pastor is not telling you. Tithe in the church today is fraud and it is not a way God blesses people. Pastors have hammered more on that cos it suites them. Jesus rarely talked about money to his disciples. I will upload my comprehensive details after am done with the research. Willful giving is what the new testament church is based on.

It appears to me that you are finding faults in Jesus. However, I will attempt to answers all your questions if you are willing to keep an open mind. I cant do much if your mind is made up in finding fault. The reason being that, a carnally mind person cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. However, I will want to know your stand in this statement then we can continue or not: Do you believe or accept the fact that, Jesus was operating under the old testament during His days while He was also setting up a new testament? for a testament is not in effect until the death of the testator. Heb 9:15-18. I will answer all of your questions on the above verses when I know if you accept the above fact or not.

ITbomb:
Do you mean he said all this in a church service?

Exactly, I hope you don't have issues with that being said in the church. Do you?

[quote author=FAST-LINK link=topic=846688.msg9971600#msg9971600 date=1326656394]What I'm yet to understand is why people are just picking on this man Bakare, Is he not a Nigeria with the right to vote and be voted for?
See, there's chaos in the whole country now, simply because of the wrong choice we made while choosing our leaders.
The only sin I can see on this pastor according to you guys is his interest in the Nigerian politics but lemme ask those of you that criticise him.
If righteous shy away from the battle of leadership in this world, how on earth is this world gonna be made a better place for you and me?[/quote]Thank you, we end up in all these mess because we allow thieves to rule us and we come back screaming.

weird mind:
Most of our religious leaders diffidently hide under some isolated verses in order to refrain from making a atand for the truth & justice twds any burning national issues. How can u claim to love your congregation when what touches and pricks them is none of your business? Real prophets/men of God confront the evil fangs that eat into members' lives. But Pastor Tunde Bakare is a distinct exception. Fools mistake his passion for the underdog as an ego trip or attention seeking bug,but the average intelligent Nigerian who bears the pains of mis-governance of our rulers know better. Those liches and parasites that have reduced the hitherto healthy stems of the Nigerian tree to brownish rottenness are eager to call the true Nigerian heroes names,

Pastor,you are one advocate for the oppressed that we all know and love. Keep on the good work; u are in good company with Martin Luther King Jr.,John the Baptist, Archbishop Tutu and many others.

The administration of Jonathan is finished because he is disconnected from the people he is supposed to lead. He is determinedly on the side of the looters, because he is himself a big time looter. Down with the PDP and other reprobates in the corridors of power who yap: "Mr President, it is a courageous decision,we stand by you." Shameless looters, thieves,conscienceless barons, power LovePeddlers without honour, being cheered on by religious & dubious characters in wolves' clothing,

FLESH AND BLOOD HAD NOT REVEALED THIS TRUTH TO YOU BUT GOD. THANK YOU. I MADE SAME POINT.

I guess Pastor Bakare makes more sense educating Nigerians than some MOG that sits back just to collect tithes and other religious offerings while they LovePeddler themselves with these corrupt government officials during election campaign. The silent revolution has already started, watch out.

God bless Pastor Bakare.

ok, try go off internet for a while and read the bible when you are about to sleep.

davidylan:
What about John the Baptist who openly confronted Herod for marrying his brother's wife? I agree that the bible enjoins us to pray for our rulers and those in authority but dont we also have the authority to stand against unrighteousness from those in power? Did not prophet Nathan stand up to David? Didnt Elijah stand up to King Ahab and his wife?

Yes, you are a student of the bible. The bible is balance my brother. You can stand against corrupt leaders without cursing, using cursy words etc or probably adding emotions as if you are already waiting for people's downfall or mistake so you can strike them. I hope you understand? Evil does not begat good as you cannot correct or address wrong doings in a wrong way, I think this is what we are talking about. I love Bakare because he speaks the truth against all this corrupt politicians but sometimes I feel his approach is wrong. I stand to be corrected if my view is wrong anyway but only from the light of the word of God.

You see a lot is very wrong in the church today. Hagin himself might preach this prosperity message in the right and true motive but men of greed today in the church had corrupt this teaching. I am seriously making complete research about each subject of today's christianity and hope to come out with biblical truth, dont want to depend on Hagin's book or any MOG but the Bible. I hope to explode in coming future. Imagine a preacher here in USA bring a casket into the church without any dead inside in casket and tell people to write what they want dead in their lives/past and put inside the casket and if the people dont have such, they should sow a "seed" into their future. I believe if it take a voice to manipulate folks in the church, it will also talk a voice to bring people back to true biblical teaching.

Yes, it is true we don't curse or use ungodly words against anyone not even when we are believers. I do not support that because it unlike Christ. However, to see evils and keep quiet is evil itself. Bakare might have done it now or in the past out of emotions, personal issues unknown to us or out of one thing or the other, I don't dispute that but I will not support him in using those words anyway cos i see from the light of the word of God. He should have done it in a better or more mature manner.

You see my brother, we the young Christians must be very careful of our leaders and don't support them even when they are wrong. This is one of the problem today in body of Christ. People come to this forum and defend their leaders even when these leaders are wrong from the clear word of God. Imagine a man of God make tithe compulsory for members of the church, declaring that no wedding will be conducted for non tithe payers because they are robbers, robbing God and his members come here to say this man of God is right, all in the name of touch not my anointed. Imagine a man of God slap someone in act of deliverance and his members come here to defend him. This is one issue we the young Christians should be careful about. So if your leader tells you to commit sin against God, such member can go ahead to commit sin just because a man of God cannot be wrong? Such members of these men of God even throw curses, threatens other posters on this forum with unimaginable curses such examples as seen being used by their leaders. I understand people take matters personal and hence, use ungodly words against some MOG but I will rather wish the God of such MOG fight for them than the members of these MOG misbehave on NL. These and many more are evils I have seen under heaven among Christians. I have many issues i carry as burden in my heart for present day Christianity but I will always wait for time to explode. Thank you my brethren in the Lord.

@ Poster,

Pls email me and let me share some revelations with you. You need not go back, ok. goshen360@yahoo.co.uk You can add me with that email on yahoo msger so we can chat,ok God bless you.

What exactly is your point in respect to that bible verse?

E ma gba oun ti o da la ye o, meaning dont allow evil reign on earth o. My people, pls stop olu**** as it is called because nemesis might caught up somehow and one becomes enemy of self. Thanks

God bless my people of Nigeria. We shall overcome.

989900:
Nothing concern you with posession, yellow, red, shots on target e.t.c. . . .   lol

Na so my brother, if them like make dem dey drible themselves say them dey score against Nigerians, we dey look and wait for them scores before we know weather game don over or not,yeye people

Na score board we dey wait for make we know the scores. Am not concerned about who is playing best, make game finish and make we see score board. Shikina

moshoodn:
Pump price back to #65. . . I no stay for sun in vain

GBAMM

Labour has gone in front of us o, not walking side by side with us. God of heaven, i hope this is not true.

989900:
If we let Labour walk by our side, NOT in front of us

I understand you my brother, lol