Dtruthspeaker: I have answered you already up where I said right from your childhood, you have seen that when you did evil and wickedness to a person, you got wickedness in return.
So also, when you did the good, you also got the good.
Also, you also saw that when you did not do any wrong or wicked thing, NO ONE HAD A RIGHT OR EVEN POWER TO DO YOU ANY WICKEDNESS AT ALL.
No man could ever had set these laws for these Laws are experienced all over the world exactly as The Bible had declared.
still does not prove god. people do evil and get away with it, people do good and get nothing or evil in return. people suffer consequences for their actions when the actions lead to events connected to their future. how does this prove god? and which god cos karma is even from hinduism
Pelecius: I never said all what you claim I said. I have explained myself, but you are bent on not learning it. Rather, you are forcing how you understand it on me. It doesn't work that way my friend.
Then you resorted to adhominem, just for the fact that you don't understand what we have both explained.
yeye. your posts are there for everyone to read. what is atheist wannabe. a phrase you made up and want to force it's baseless meaning on everyone? i will repeat myself. the only way an atheist wannabe can exist if for that so called wannabe to actually believe in the existence of god while pretending not to. any other thing you say is nonsense. it is simple english ogbeni. people who try to complicate simple things are frauds
Dtruthspeaker: See how you show you knew nothing at beginning when you thought you were a Christ Follower such that you ask this foolish question?
It is exactly as you knew since you were a child that if you did any wicked thing to another, you are automatically qualified for a wickedness to be done to you.
lol. you that knows, can you tell me how you got to know God's commands? at least if i dont even learn, someone else would learn from your sensible post and not be mislead by me. so please go ahead and tell us what god ever wrote
Ynix: Reading the bible does not make one a Christian for your information. Knowledge is like a river or ocean if you don't have the capacity to manage it, you will be consumed
na so. that's how you keep hopping from one excuse to another. as if people do not actually breakdown and become born again after reading the bible. as if you have any other authority that educates you on what you should belief. i guess Punch Newspaper must be your source of your christian knowledge.
This evening I told a religious dude that insincere corrupt crooked politicians also pray
He replied saying God doesn't answer them That the rich also cry(perhaps Saraki is less comfortable than people in the slums making him less cheerful � ) That I deserve to be negatively affected by the excesses of the people in government (all tiers and arms) because I never voted or contested for any public post That I am not suffering from the economic regress as a result of a caring God's inexistence or that it has nothing to do with a caring God's inexistence
Imagine such nonsense!!!
He expects me not to complain about nonsense because there's nothing I can do about nonsense after saying God is aware of nonsense and permits nonsense despite the uselessness of nonsense!!!!!!!
What on Earth is the meaning of this nonsense in which those that refuse to be accountable and responsible for their own nonsense accuse others of being irresponsible towards what they never caused for themselves or what they couldn't avoid amidst such nonsense
he does not want you to complain, but he would be glad if you were praying obviously. i am willing to take the money of any christian, muslim or anyone as long as the only punishment i would suffer are prayers they would pray against me.
Pelecius: Thank you o I don't know what is hard in understanding simple terms such as that.
we aint saying same thing. the difference is as clear as night and day. You are saying an atheist wannabe can exist who actually does not believe in god. i am saying such cannot exist. an atheist wannabe can only exist if he actually believes in god. so how can some one who does not believe in the existence of any god be an atheist wannabe? then what is a real atheist then?
you two are suffering from poor education. an elementary level grasp of english is sufficient for you to know we aint saying the same thing
you just learned the word i see. putting it to use in all you recent posts. good job, that is how to become more conversant with the use of new words you learn, you use them in sentences.
Dtruthspeaker: Since you say no, there is nothing more for me to say for it is apparent that you do not know that a person can not be both Hot and Cold at the same period of time.
If you are not hot, then you are cold.
If you are cold, then you are not hot.
If you are inside the house, you are not outside the house
So it is here, if you avoid all evil, then you do no wrong and if you do know wrong, then you do righteousness.
All these are clearly off point for you are just raising excuses as to why you do not want to Obey God's Clear and Direct Instruction of fleeing from evil, which is your problem, not mine.
I have clearly laid what righteousness is as disclosed by the Bible and you have not controverted it.
The mere fact that you do not like Cold Hard Truth of it is immaterial.
It's your bed and it is you who shall pay on it, I'm done!
you mean man made rules? abi which rules have you ever seen god give (written or spoken)?
Pelecius: Alright. Let's dissect these. you are absolutely right that triggered me because it was totally stupid Like I said, if one doesn't understand a concept, it does not follow that such person call such concept stupid. That'll be laughable
the only way a wannabe atheist can exist is for that wannabe atheist to actually believe in God This is just false. You may start by checking the meaning of wannabe, then read my previous response. I already explained it by using Christianity as an example. FACT: a wannabe atheist is not one who believe in God and is still an atheist.
so you just used a lot of words to say nothing in this explanation It's not wrong to ask, if one doesn't understand a thing. That you don't understand what I wrote does not equate to explaning nothing.
obviously you think being an atheist must be cool hence there must be wannabe atheists right? Smiles. It's this type of statement (bolded) that makes me use words like wannabe atheists. If you really know what it take to be an atheist, you wouldn't write such statement.
what is the reason for your wannabe thingy. In simple terms, belonging to a group without having indepth knowledge about such group. Just trying to fit in to such group. Like I said in the first post, being an atheist is beyond rejecting God just as being a Christian is more than mere believing in God.
and yeah, you say i should not attack you (because i called you a wannabe christian) funny you want to call others names but dont want to be called names. you clown Calling me a wannabe Christian won't bother me. You only jumped again to conclusion, without asking how you attacked the messenger. From what you wrote here, your last sentence is not an attack, but same can't be said for the previous statements. So that was what I referred to. All those words, just because you didn't understand the message. It wasn't necessary
you are just contradicting yourself and making no sense. it is like saying that you are a wannabe human. the only way i am a wannabe atheist if for me to actually believe in god, anything else you say is nonsense
FreedomArmy: so what do you think is the original of the biological information found in the DNA
can you tell us what the original of the dna is, you seem to have this precious information. i would like to learn if you dont mind (except it is a secret you must guide with your life)
Ynix: The books you read have finally confused you, let me be sincere I believe I went farther than you, please do not allow knowledge that are just fact to deceive you
confused him? if an atheist reads the bible and becomes born again, i am sure you would say "the books you have read has set you free". he has read the bible and compared to the other books he later read, the bible was not making much sense. perhaps you also need to read and leave your cave
CharisEleos: You obviously don't have a solid spiritual background and spiritual mentor from inception. Even when you grew up and became an adult, you were not properly guided spiritually to accepting Christ.
Lastly, youve not had a personal conviction with God.
The major problem here is that You have only been a church goer who was never spiritualy deep-rooted In the word despite pretending all along to read the word and do as you're told to do.
Where you lost it was when your father failed to explain the part where you said God promised not to destroy the world with flood but you see it happening. Your parents too may not even understand the Bible well enough to explain very well; Reason I said earlier that you lacked a solid spiritual foundation and mentor.
To what God meant about not destroying the world with flood.
Now, this is not in any way referring to the floods you see these days as the former was used to destroy the whole world while the one your are referring to happens and affects only a fraction of the world. Note the difference. These are caused by natural disasters and not in any way connected with God.
So try to understand and differentiate the things done by God and the ones that are caused by human or natural factors. I wonder why your dad could not explain a simple thing as this to you if he was truly a regenerated Christian.
Finally, Christianity is not only by reading books, but by having a personal encounter and conviction with God ( Paul former Saul of Tarsus) Then you won't need anyone to beg you to remain a Christian because whoever the Father choses, no one can snatch away. Until then, Shalom.
they have come again! they talk as if they grew up with the person they are accusing. miss know it all. how do you know he does not have a solid background. probably you are not even a serious christian. probably you are one of those church girls that does not even read her bible, probably you are one of those that lives in sin. probably he was a man after god's heart and you are just a church goer. yet you come to tell him who he must be because you must be him
Workch: It’s no surprise that I am an atheist, but one thing people don’t know about me is that I was a Christian for 28years. Yes 28years.
I was not just a Christian, I had full membership in my church and was a member of the choir. I was born into a Christian home, we had morning and evening devotions everyday as a child. My dad personally tried indoctrinating us a lot, we read the Bible every single day and then he explains but seriously even as a child a lot of the stories didn’t add up but I was scared that I was being blasphemous. I remember a day my dad was teaching us about Noah’s flood and then we got to that point where god said he’s using the rainbow as a sign to remind humanity that he would never destroy earth with flood. Even as a 9years old, that part didn’t make sense to me, because I see it in the news frequently of flood destroying farms, properties and even killing people. I asked my dad and he didn’t give me a reasonable explanation. As a teenager, I started teaching Sunday school to kids in church, I taught them that god never change but in my mind, I wasn’t convinced because while reading the Bible, there many instances of god changing his mind and even regretting his decisions. I always think about it that the god of Old Testament seems different from what is portrayed in the New Testament, something changed. I kept a lot of things to myself because people around were so religious and would quickly rebuke me for such reasoning. As time goes on, I joined the choir, I learn drums and keyboard, I sang choir ministrations and even wrote songs for my church choir. All these while, it wasn’t clear, I was just scared to come out fully.
I got admitted into the university to study biochemistry. Being someone that is very inquisitive, I started asking so many questions in respect to the relationship between living organisms. After having background knowledge in genetics, molecular biology and biological metabolism, it was clear that every living thing are the same basically. At this point, I didn’t even understand the theory of evolution properly but I had seen the a fairly clear picture. I had to go back and then study the theory of evolution properly (took weeks), because the impression I had from secondary school was that an ape turned into human. Our biology teachers, just like every other biology teachers in Nigerian schools, were so bad at teaching the theory of evolution. Seems like a lot of them didn’t even understand it.
Fast forward, I graduated, I still believed god existed. since after I properly studied the theory of evolution, I started holding the notion that God presided over evolution and the Bible is somehow consistent with the theory of evolution. This idea was born out of the sheer fear of not wanting to sound blasphemous to my beloved ones. After I graduated, I started reading wide, I didn’t like physics in school but I started reading physics (specifically quantum and astrophysics), I discovered about Big Bang theory, theory of relativity, string theory etc, it took a lot of time before I could grasp them but when I did, it became clearer that the Bible is not consistent with anything in reality.
It was difficult for me to accept this truth because I didn’t want to be seen as a blasphemer, not until I had the opportunity to run my masters degree abroad in clinical biochemistry. I met with lot of renown and brilliant people in the field of biochemistry. They were realistic in their beliefs and will not believe anything unless you can back it with evidence. I became bolder with time, we shared ideas as I studied. Th society gives everyone liberty and I was very free to come out clean with my realistic traits. A lot of my lecturers didn’t believe in god. I became a full fledged atheist in Europe by the time I finished my program.
Today, I have done several works and I still keep reading to find the truth, so far I haven’t seen anything consistent with the Christian God. I am back in Nigeria and trust me, I don’t have lot of friends for this reason. I have just two friends and they are both agnostic ( I made them agnostic because they are open minded and also brilliant Phd holders in biochemistry).
same way my sister lost her faith. She started to read, started asking questions. wanted her faith to make sense and not believe just because she was asked to believe. when people actually want their faith to be based on truth and not neccessity, they are bound to discover the falsehood of faith.
Image123: God dictates the terms, not you murrormirror. Just like an Employer employee, Teacher student, Owner possession, Creator created relationship. You don't run to your boss demanding that he addresses you in your village dialect, do you? Be reasonable.
as if this so called god even talks for itself. who can something that cannot talk or write for itself make any rules? even a dog makes rules that i would respect, at least it can bark and ask me to keep off and i would respect it
Pelecius: You clearly don't understand what I meant with wannabe atheists. Let me start with Christianity so you can understand my word usage, as it clearly does not correlate with what you said. (And there's no point in attacking the messenger if one doesn't UNDERSTAND the message). Just as there are folks who identify with Christianity, believe in God, attend services, etc, but don't really follow what the Bible says. That is, there's what makes one a Christian than just believing in God (after all, even the demons do). So also is atheism. It's not just mere subscribing to the no-God idea, it's a whole wide worldview in which many who identifies with it are really ignorant of
Anyway, looks like it's ONLY the "wannabe" word that triggered EMOTION here. Other blanket statement for your perception of Christianity seem to have been cleared, I want to believe
you are absolutely right that triggered me because it was totally stupid. the only way a wannabe atheist can exist is for that wannabe atheist to actually believe in God. so you just used a lot of words to say nothing in this explanation. obviously you think being an atheist must be cool hence there must be wannabe atheists right? or what is the reason for your wannabe thingy.
and yeah, you say i should not attack you (because i called you a wannabe christian) funny you want to call others names but dont want to be called names. you clown
GOD'S NOT DEAD, HE'S LIVING ON THE INSIDE; ROARING LIKE A LION! So in 2012, same year i finally concluded i was done with this faith thing after internal battles for the past 2 years, a movie was released -one of the biggest movies ever made by the Christian movie industry GOD'S NOT DEAD!!!
This movie was a sensation in the christian circle around the world, they jubilation, they celebrated, they finally found the answer they have been looking for.
IT SEEMED THE SCIENCE COMMUNITY AND ATHEIST COMMUNITY HAD BEEN GIVING THEM A REAL TOUGH TIME AND THEY WERE ALREADY LOSING HOPE OF GETTING MEANINGFUL DEFENSE FOR THEIR FAITH.
finally this movie took a "scientific" approach to proving God was alive. or did it? i watched the movie and honestly, it in no way proves that god is real.
The theme song for the movie (video above), by the Newsboys has been a sensation, with christians singing and jubilating as if they just found their god whom they actually thought was dead. this movie and song seemed to have brought god back to life.
so lets look at it does the song even make any sense?
the song says "god's not dead, he is living on the inside, roaring like a lion" this summarizes the whole christain faith. They have no prove for god, god is real because they say it is real, it is their opinion that must be taken as a fact. he is living inside them, meaning without them, there is no god. else why must they always be the ones speaking for god? they claim god is roaring like a lion, i guess they are the only ones hearing the roars, cos we hear no lion roaring through them. all christians are as ordinary as any other human,; be hindu, muslim, atheists any one of any race, class, religion. they are just humans. nothing is roaring like a lion in them except their imaginations.
are you a christian? is god living inside you? show me one thing that makes you special than other people of other faith or of no faith?
Kobojunkie: It does.... From the time of Adam, it has been so that those who do not believe in God were to perish the the grave/cease upon death- Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19. Adam was created a physical being(not spiritual) - from the clay of this earth - Genesis 2 vs 7 , and so his very existence is tied to the breath of life that God breathed in him at his creation. Given that Adam never ate of the tree of Life- meaning he had no after/eternal life bestowed on him- once that breath of life is gone from him, so also is his existence ceases and he becomes nothing but clay/dust again. This judgement/punishment/condemnation he, Adam, passed down to all of his progeny.
Jesus Christ, the one who brought eternal life, to all regardless of ancestry, explained that only those who believe in Him will have eternal life that He brings- John 3 vs 36. He did abolish God's previous judgement on mankind but came offering a way for those who will accept Him to obtain that which was lost to man through Adam - Life and Truth.
Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ remain condemned as they were previously judged by God - John 3 vs 16 - 19.
Heaven and Hell are domains which exist in the Kingdom of God. In the same chapter of John, Jesus Christ explained that only those who are born-again can enter into the Kingdom of God -John 3 vs 1 - 8, and entry into the Kingdom is either through the broad gate that leads to destruction or the narrow gate that leads to true life- Matthew 7 vs 13- 14
you dont even know scriptures. do you even read your bible? or you are just desperately trying to defend your brand of christianity? John 3:16-19 New International Version 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
this simply means those who do not believe in him will perish and he went on in several other places to clarify that they would perish in the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But for the cowardly [b]and unbelieving [/b]and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
hope you can read yourself. clearly stated that we the unbelievers would burn in hell
Revelation 20:15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Dtruthspeaker: And This is Always you peoples' problem, YOU NEVER HAD THE FAITH (KNOWLEDGE) IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT YOU ALL THOUGHT YOU DID.
it is actually realizing that faith is dubious. my dear christian friends that have tried to get me back to the fold always are unable to give me any other reason to return but to just have faith in God. well i could ask them to also just have faith in the flying spag monster. the problem is not the faith, the problem is faith in what? faith in lies? faith in a man made god? or you have not yet realized your god is man made? if not man made tell me what evidence your god has presented for it's self, all the so called things your god has are all what men are saying on it's behalf, is your god dumb?
Truvelisback: If man was God. 1. U won't av been alive to write these things. 2. U would av been paying 4 the air u are breathing freely and u may not be able to afford it because it will be very expensive. And only the may be able to afford it.
you mean it is god that is giving us this air to breath? why?
Kobojunkie: There is a problem when you go around believing your Christian experience is the same as those of others around you. You become no different from those mindless goons out there you love to condemn is what.
1. Jesus Christ never asked any one to watch or listen to what you call Christian movies and gospel music to begin with so the emotional experiences you experience or previously experienced while listening to them has to do with you and your choice...not any of that which Jesus Christ in fact called on you to do.
i am beginning to see you have a problem with reading and comprehending.
Pelecius: I wonder how wannabe atheists enjoy self delusion, like the ones stated by op. I think it makes them feel good and "intellectually" fulfilled.
Most times, wannabe atheists objections are outright straw man. Let's consider his points.
1. Emotion is part of every human. Being a religious person (I'll argue for Christianity henceforth) does not make you more emotional than an atheist. First point. Secondly, it is not a MUST that you listen to gospel songs. And gospel songs don't ONLY talk of emotional stuff. You are assuming too much here. And most movies don't end in tragedy, gospel movies included. Or are you implying that movies where good overcome evils are gospel? The reality of being a sinner is not to appeal to anyone's emotion. The saving grace of Christ is evident as hard criminals turn to peaceful and loving people. If you are not happy with it, it doesn't make you right. On the other hand, you seem to have just expressed your own emotions (maybe to make you feel good)
2. To hope also is universal, whether an atheist or a theist. Just that what one hopes on differs. Again, you've stated two behaviors of humans generally, but tried to use it in disparaging religion. Your "hoping on the impossible" is a straw man for the Christian faith. There's the instructions for WORK + faith and that of WATCH + pray. Most wannabe atheists set up straw man to attack. So a Christian does not hope while doing nothing just as a scientist does not hope to get results without experiments.
3. Like you already stated, having a family or urge to belong to a family is also universal. Now, your last statement of wanting an apostate to leave miserably is unfounded claim. It's just in your head. In fact, it's not a Christian thing to do.
4. Irresponsibility This is where you just merely expressed your emotions. Your very first statement is another unfounded claim. You went on to prove it by other unfounded claims. Seems that your ignorance of what Christianity teaches is just overwhelming and you must of think that Christianity is limited to Nigerian culture where evil forces are the order of the day. Pick a Bible and study, it'll save you these unfounded claims you bring up.
5. Appeal to Authority. You seem to write this to justify your alleged atheism. Using the Bible truths to train up children is not wrong, except you show otherwise. It definitely contains moral absolutes with which we can build a sane society (most atheistic influence nations actually built their morals on religion, and I'm not saying atheists can't be moral - though, there's no justification for that). Your claim that atheist must work to earn his respect is even a Biblical principle also (Prov 24:22).
6. No need to think? This is where you got it all wrong. You just don't know what Christianity teaches, so you invent one to make yourself look sophisticated. The Bible encourages critical thinking and it was this that led to the rise of modern science (I believe you were not expecting this). Scriptures include: A. Test things and hold on to what's true. 1 Thess 5:21 B. Only fools believe just anything. Prov 24:15 C. The Berean Christians checked what Paul said to see if it's correct. Acts 17:11 And other scriptures.
It turns out that wannabe atheists enjoy some delusions to feel good of their rebellion against God by cooking up what Christianity does not teach and rubbishing it. A simple logical fallacy called straw man. But those are easily knocked down (then they mostly shift ground to bring up another topic without acknowledging being wrong). Just as the scripture says: The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him. Prov 18 vs 17
what do you mean by wannabe atheist? you mean there are people who believe in god or lets even be specific, are Christians, yet come out to say there is no god or they dont believe in god? how is that even possible? are you even thinking at all or just want to talk for the sake of talking. just listen to your own crap. wanna be atheist my foot! you are an atheist just pretending to be an christian. you are a wanna be christian for sure.
Kobojunkie: According to the Bible teachings of Jesus Christ,
1. Heaven and Hell is also meant for those who believe in Jesus Christ, as the unbelievers are without eternal life with which to spend eternally in either of the two.
2. Heaven and Hell will only be open for business only after the return of Jesus Christ when He will then judge the works(not sins) of those who belong in His flock(believe in Him) . So all those who are dead in Christ will remain sleeping in there graves until then.
3. All those without Jesus Christ lack an afterlife / eternal life and so will cease to exist once they die since they all remain physical beings like their ancestor Adam - Genesis 3 vs 17 - 19
this is even worse than the normal christain bullcrap i hear. JW i guess
The song above is an embodiment of what keeps Christians in the faith. i can talk confidently about Christianity not because i hate Christianity more than other religions, but because i was a christian and that was my life.
As an Atheist i sometimes forget what it meant to be a christian and i wonder why people still buy into the absolute nonsense the christian faith is selling them... the truth is it is EXTREMELY HARD TO BE AN ATHEIST and here are the reasons.
1. Emotions. you need to listen to a good gospel song or watch a good gospel movie. the core is play on Emotions (most times they do it innocently not that they are evil) the emotions of you being weak and one super hero (god) caring so much for you, coming to take you out of your mess, out of your filth. you are so unworthy of love, you are a reject, a sinner, a cast away, yet this super hero loves you so much. As an atheist there is no supernatural love anywhere to lean on when you are down. You have to wear your big boy pants, pull up your sleeves and take responsible for your life. Trust me this is difficult as humans can be emotional. this is why we cannot expect people to drop their faith.
2. Hope. Hope of getting the impossible, hope of getting healing, hope for the poor, hope for the oppressed. this keeps people patient in their situations because they are waiting for a reward and any negative thoughts or consideration could provoke this god not to give them the reward anymore, so they keep hoping. it is the SUNK COST effect. they have invested so much time hoping they just cannot stop hoping.
3. Family just like cast aways find solace in gangs and cults, a feeling of comradeship and loyalty to one another, Religion brings people together, which is actually a good thing. people feel they belong to a family. An atheist had better have an actual family and friends that genuinely love him/her cos when you leave the church, they are simply looking forward to you having a miserable life so they can mock you for leaving god.
4. Irresponsibility being a christian is a ticket to being irresponsible. you always have something to blame for your problems; you can blame the devil, blame demons, blame ancestral curses. you are never the reason why things are not working out. when something bad happens to you you can ask people to pray for you explaining how some forces are working against you.
5. appeal to authority Parents love the power that the religion gives them. they can always use God and the Devil to threaten their children (subtly) so as to get them to be under their control and do their biding. Politicians use same, every one who stands to gain can use religion as a means to an end. Atheists have to actually work to earn respect, they cannot use the authority of god or the devil to demand respect or service they do not deserve.
6. No need to think. Thinking is actually very hard and a task people avoid. people want ready answers. just take a look back at your days in school, people are looking for area of concentration to read and prepare for exam, people are looking for ready answers for the questions. people just want to cram and pour, they do not want to really understand the topic and be able to thoroughly articulate the subject. that is same with religion. religion provides ready answers, you dont have to think, here are all the answers. as an atheist you have to think everything through, it is very very hard if you are not ready to challenge yourself.
emotions and the psychology that is involved in religion (christianity in particular) are extremely powerful. it is a fools paradise but a paradise all the same