IMAliyu: Out of curiosity, do you simply just don't believe in Christianity and the Christian conception of God. Or do you just in general reject the existence of a God in whatever way people define the word?
it would depend on how god is defined. for example if you say you believe god to be the energy that keeps the universe alive. i could accept that. if you say your god is the sun, i could accept that. if you say your god is the conscience in every human, i could accept that. these are definations that are within a scope that is realistic. the moment you start adding attributes to your god that you cannot prove, then there is a problem. for example if you said god is the sun, that is good... then you take it further and say the sun created heaven and earth, you begin to get silly,.. then you say this sun talks to you and commands you to do things,... hmmm... that is were religion comes in. religions make claims that cannot be substantiated, that are illogical and impractical. you can choose to just worship the sun because it is integral to life on earth, no problem because i understand why you made that decision even though i would not go along with you to worship the sun. so it totally depends on how you define god.
ItsReal: Also , you mentioned some stuff about the Muslim women. If you happen to know about Islam and you are not just a news hearer only, even you will debunk the claims that Muslim women are oppressed.
I believe the question of women being oppressed any started about less than a 100 tears ago. Yeah, go and make your research into the time when females started agitating for recognition in the society or equal represention.
If you read the encyclopaedia, you find out that the word woman is used by the English swim in a woe man, this is congruent to the belief of the Christians that Eve ,the wife of Adam lured her husband to eat the apple. They saw her and the women folks as the reason for their problems on earth.
In a verse of the Quran, Allah mentioned a case study of what happens with the Jews, Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 139: وَقَالُوا مَا فِي بُطُونِ هَٰذِهِ الْأَنْعَامِ خَالِصَةٌ لِّذُكُورِنَا وَمُحَرَّمٌ عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِنَا وَإِن يَكُن مَّيْتَةً فَهُمْ فِيهِ شُرَكَاءُ سَيَجْزِيهِمْ وَصْفَهُمْ إِنَّهُ حَكِيمٌ عَلِيمٌ
And they say: What is in the wombs of these cattle is specially for our males, and forbidden to our wives, and if it be stillborn, then they are all partners in it; He will reward them for their attributing (falsehood to Allah); surely He is Wise, Knowing.
also, before the messengership of prophet Muhammed, people would kill their female child. They saw them as bad luck (or just they English called them: the unfortunate man) Here is the verse on that; Surah Al-Anaam, Verse 140: قَدْ خَسِرَ الَّذِينَ قَتَلُوا أَوْلَادَهُمْ سَفَهًا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَحَرَّمُوا مَا رَزَقَهُمُ اللَّهُ افْتِرَاءً عَلَى اللَّهِ قَدْ ضَلُّوا وَمَا كَانُوا مُهْتَدِينَ
They are lost indeed who kill their children foolishly without knowledge, and forbid what Allah has given to them forging a lie against Allah; they have indeed gone astray, and they are not the followers of the right course.
Mainly, I think the question should be that what is oppression to you? is oppression to you when you see a woman covered in hijab and not half naked, or when she takes care of her home and family while the husband goes out to look for food for the family.
any of the two you choose, it will amaze you to find out just about Less than a hundred years ago, even every sane person all over the world were fully clothed with out walking almost naked in the streets. Also, all women were housewives too.
so ask yourself this question, is it that when western countries are guilty of something u term as oppression now , you turn away and put no blame on them but point fingers at Muslims for the same thing.
that's the reason why I said if you know about islam,you wouldn't mention this at all. before the prophet muhammad, women's don't get any share of the inheritance at all. in fact , they were deemed as property of the husband just as people still do in the yoruba tribe where upon the death of a man, a family member can take over ownership of the wife.
on the issue of inheritance, women in Islam are to take inheritance from almost all possible relatives even though they are meant to be catered for by their fathers followed by their husbands in the event of marriage. this is as opposed to the male who can only take inheritance from some specific close relatives only.
not to make this long, I will conclude by saying the women of the disbelievers had no women right and they just of recent started clamoring for things women in Islam have been benefiting from since more than a thousand years ago.
but unfortunately, instead of them to recognize the Muslim women as their predecessors who had the rights they were looking for, they wanted more ( feminism ) and they started depicting Muslim women as the uncivilized oppressed woman.
i do not agree with you sir. in islam, a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man. this is a fact!. it is a fact that muslim men think they have the right to put women straight even to the extent of beating them. just to mention a few sir.
ItsReal: Lemme start from the bottom, all religions see people who disbelieve in their teaching as an opponent, I repeat ,All religions. So singling out Islam on this regard is unjustly.
To the Christian, a Muslim is an infidel. In fact , the word infidel was first used by Crusaders who ravaged wars against Muslims and Jews. To the Jewish man, if you are not a jew, you are not among the chosen ones, you are disbeliever. And in Islam , if you heard about the messengership of prophet Muhammad and yet you disbelieve, you are a disbeliever. However, Islam regards people who were on the teachings of prophet Musa (moses) b4 the advent of Jesus as muslims and the real Christians who worship God and not Jesus b4 the advent of prophet Muhammed as muslims.
On the issue of blasphemy, I said it before, all religions and society has a law in form of punishment against blasphemy. All these western countries recently abolished their own blasphemy laws when the people started asking for the church to be excluded from government (secularism). You can Google this easily. Similar to this is the case of apostasy. To know more, endeavor to read more.
I will complete the response soon ,MA ba3 is about to go off
you are right. i do not dispute this that other religion are also guilty. but why are muslims still blood thirsty in this day and age and live in denial about the blood thirst.
AntiChristian: The comment you posted talked only about Sokoto and you generalize that destructively on majority of Muslims in the north!
Which kind logic be this?
And who made you guys like this?
i was born in kano, schooled in sokoto and jos and lived a while in Kaduna. i know the north he spoke about sokoto cos that is his experience and it is same for every state there. sokoto is in fact one of the most peaceful states there, yet extremism is still a problem. you are just hopping to avoid confronting the main issues. your aim is obviously to create a distraction from the issue
The issue of extra judicial killing is quite easy to comprehend.
I think the problem starts with a not-so-correct view that restricts the islamic religion to just a religion within the four walls of the mosque.
Instead, Islam is more of a complete way of life of the Muslims which includes the worship of God aspect, day to day life dealings and societal conducts based on the Islamic law.
So in the Islamic law, their's provision for the Islamic courts responsible for hearing criminal and customary cases. It is the sole responsibility of the Islamic court to pronounce judgment on a suspected criminal after evidence has been presented.
The individuals are not on any case allow to carry out jungle justice as that would usually lead to more harm than good.
So pertaining to the thread created by Seun, the man he was referencing is infact liable to being arrested (if he is still free) for inciting the people to take laws into their hands. So such a person's action shouldn't be used to determine what the average Muslim believes.
Furthermore, the presence of people like that man and other people (most especially youths ) who are ever ready to go the jungle justice way necessitates the existence of Hisbah. The Hisbah manages such affairs just as police would prevent people from taking laws into their own hands instead of taking it to the court of law.
In summary, we have laws guiding all of our affairs. Also , we have a governmental system where there are laid down procedures to tackle each occurrence. There is no room for individuals to take up judgment to themselves. The Hisbah acts as the police who charge suspect criminals to the sharia court of law.
Lastly, a misconception I see often is that when Islam says this is the punishment for a crime, people think it is the individuals who care out the punishment and totally forget that Muslims have a robust legal system. If a person is found guilty of taking judgment into his hands, they will be charged to the sharia court as a criminal also. An event that exemplifies this is a case that happen about 1000 years ago in the Islamic empire. A man was displaying magic to a large audience. Note that sorcery and magic is not allow in Islam. so what happened was that while the magician was cutting and fixing back his head with a sword, one particular Muslim man ( all the people are Muslims o) came behind him. As soon as the magician fixed his head back to the body ,the man used his own sword to cut it back and was saying it loudly for all to hear that the man should fix it back if he is real.
Long story short, the man was arrested immediately too. Eventhough, the punishment for sorcery and magic is death, he took judgment to himself instead of reporting the case to the authorities.
I hope you now understand.
no you are talking. i appreciate you taking time to explain as best as you understood the matter. the core problem here is the denial of the issues. i know a lot of muslims do not support extreme measures in defence of religion, but they pretend as if the problem is not there. that is why i posted that video, you see the muslims dodging every question and whitewashing as if the religion is perfect and the adherents are perfect. as if it is not a fact that majority of clerics support extreme measures in issues that pertains abuse of the religion of islam. why tell such obvious lies? i have seen so many cases of people pretending as if women in muslim countries are not being treated as if they are minors and second class citizens. this and so many issues that most muslims would not admit are issues. yet we keep seeing support for these abuses, so who are the people that keep propagating these hate and abuse of women, non believers, apostates, blasphemers etc
petra1: Wrong . Had Mirror Has denied the faith by his will. His salvation is lost. The bible says we should not pray for such a person.
1 John 5:16 (NKJV) 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
Heb 6:4 — Heb 6:6 (KJV Strong's) 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Image123: i have known you and engaged with you for over 5 years. i have never asked or wanted you to prove that you were a Christian. Get your brain in order or has devourer devoured your memory?
AntiChristian: You are generalizing a video with a different theme as your topic.
Why can't you simply answer the 5 questions I asked?
The summation is that problem exists but it's not religious!
Codepain: The Sheik should be cautioned against such unguarded utterances. Displicined? maybe. Overwhelming majority of Sokoto residents are pleased with maximum penalty for blasphemers. infact Hanging such offender is in line with values, traditions and religion of Sokoto people. Same way a teaspoon of cocaine powder draw max penalty in some non–islamic countries. It is only people from afar that are concerned by such laws. Muslims can stomach anything but not disrespect to what they considered Sacred.
this is a comment from your fellow muslim that totally agrees that majority of muslims in the north support extrajudicial killings as long as it concerns their religion.
Image123: You're more ignorant than i estimated. i don't have to prove that i am a child of the King, you're free to cut a limb if it suits you. Artful dodger.
and yet you guys want me to prove i was a christian. ogbeni you are not a christian. maxindhouse is a christian.
AntiChristian: You are generalizing a video with a different theme as your topic.
Why can't you simply answer the 5 questions I asked?
The summation is that problem exists but it's not religious!
the questions has nothing to do with this thread. i should assume you can read since you can type. so asking irrelevant questions that has nothing to do with the thread should not demand an answer. https://www.nairaland.com/6668567/condemn-sheikh-bello-yabo-incitiment this is seun's thread read through and see for yourself those you where blind to see their support for extrajudicial killing
AntiChristian: I watched the video and can you explain how the title (and theme) is related to your topic?
Where does the hate come from in the video?
Who supports extrajudicial killings from the video?
And on Seun's thread who supported extrajudicial killings?
And how does Islam have anything to do with the killings?
i hope you can read? the topic of this thread is DISHONESTY OF MUSLIMS..... the muslims in the video where being dishonest claiming that there where no clerics that preached hate and that considered apostates should be killed. the pretend that there is nothing of such. you are trying to twist the narrative as you are avoiding addressing the issues i raised.
Image123: So much multitude of words but you couldn't answer the simple question. Did i lie? Do you think anyone a Christian who is not part of the JW?
this comment got me laughing, see them fighting for the right to be called the TRUE CHRISTIANS. lol. so who are the true christians?
MaxInDHouse: You yourself know for sure that i'm not doing this because of you. I'm here for HardMirror who thought he was practicing my faith (Christianity) while he was following misinformed churchgoers like you. Therefore i'll continue to repeat the fact that Hell (Grave) wouldn't have exist if Adam and Eve never sinned against God! So after sin has been destroyed both Death and Hell (Grave) will be casted into the lake of fire which means termination (symbol of inexistence) I'm here for HardMirror so if you want to prove that your traditional Hell is a real place let's see how you defend it not by quoting letters that you can't substantiate with efficacy but by explaining to make everyone SEE the sense in what you're saying! 2Timothy 2:15
please ignore that bloody liar. i dont agree with your points, but i appreciate that you are making efforts based on your own understanding. the problem is you are forcing your sentiments and not being objective, never the less, still see that you are sincere. as for saying your own brand of christianity is the true christianity, i see no difference in your christianity with what is generally practiced, so thinking you are a better christian is a fallacy
ItsReal: When the church accused galileo or what is the name of the guy charged with blasphemy for saying information found in the bible are not correct (the earth being flat) and he was about to be executed, you didn't find any fault in that. Apostates are known to be faced with the death penalty since a long time ago.
So for the fact that you Christians have chosen to abrogate these laws to gain cheap public or western acceptability, does that make the Muslims who hold onto their laws while giving no chance to compromise the black sheep.
A simple google search will enlightened you about the existence of your so called human rights abuses in Judaism and Christianity.
focus on the topic here. i asked you muslims a simple question, please give a direct answer to the question and stop saying because other religions do the same, i should not ask you why you do same. i am not a christian by the way
AntiChristian: I am not a British so wetin concern me?
"Do they need a British Islam?"
So we'll have to embrace a Nigerian Islam here too right?
Makes no sense!
And of what relevance is the topic to your topic here? Typical of people who paint all Muslims with the same brush!
this thread is about the BEHAVIOUR of the muslims in the video which is same with that of muslims here in nigeria and all around the world. why do majority of muslims hate so much but would pretend not to hate. i am really curious to why you say one thing in public and say another thing when with fellow muslims or when anonymous. that is what this thread is about. why were you all in support of extrajudicial killings on Seun's thread on the topic, but when you are asked in public where your identity is known, majority would say Islam has nothing to do with killings or those who promote such?
Dtruthspeaker: I dey see say all of una dey FEAR hell topics, why naw?
you only need to travel on by air to see the people who fear death, screaming Jesus every second. or travel by road and see how they will pray and bind demons that want to kill them and scream jesus anytime they see a trailer coming on the road. practically (not all this lies on nairaland) we know christians fear death the most even above muslims or any other religion
MaxInDHouse: Christianity is the result of God's promises to Abraham {Genesis 12:1-3} mankind need to be saved from sin and the arrangement must start somewhere, that's why God chose a man who is honest, faithful and loyal to the core (Abraham) God promised this man that through his descendants the whole earth will be redeemed but first a nation must emerge to serve as the prepared people that will welcome the seed of promise Messiah (Christ). After the Israelites have been established as that nation that will produce priests and kings to support the Christ's mission on earth. God began showing them His power and loyalty to their great grandfather Abraham but the Israelites were stubborn and stiff-necked, they killed most of the prophets God raised in their midst until the Messiah (Christ) arrived! Matthew 23:37-38
So all the promises of Miracles, Speaking in tongues and other supernatural GIFTS aren't for any nation or persons outside Israel because this GIFTS are meant to impress in the hearts of Israelites that the Messiah's mission has been accomplished {Joel 2:28-30} Why? Because this stiff-necked people may miss the presence of the Messiah when he's around but when they see those supernatural GIFTS happening then they will remember that the Messiah (Christ) has come and gone but they've missed the opportunity to be with him, that's what Apostle Peter reminded them when these promised GIFTS began manifesting @ Pentecost {Act 2:16-21} note that Peter said "this promise is for the children of Israelites" just as Jesus himself said before then! Matthew 15:25-28
So Apostle Paul wrote in his letter to Christians in Corinth that all this GIFTS is for a purpose and when the purpose has been met it will all seize to occur! 1Corinthians 13:8-10
All these people claiming they're performing miracles, healings and speaking in tongues today are been deceived by Satan the devil. Of course some supernatural things do happen in their midst but it's of no purpose so they can't explain why it won't happen when they really need it like you taking a man born lame to them and they're unable to restore the lame man's leg with their miracles. That's because Satan and his demons are the ones deceiving them with fake signs {Revelations 16:14} of course they're calling Jesus' name and seeing the fake signs but they're not doing what true Christians are required to do! Matthew 7:21-23
Jesus explained in details the real assignment given to his true followers and the sign that honest hearted and sincere individuals need to watch out for so that you won't be deceived following the wrong crowd! Matthew 7:13-14 compare to Exodus 23:1-2
Will you like to know the MARK of the true Christian group? Jesus said the sign we will see is like that of Jonah {Matthew 12:38-41} Jonah was the prophet who preached about the destruction of a city called Nineveh, the inhabitants of that city never saw any sign or miracles that should help them to believe that Jonah was a true prophet of God but Jonah was fully convinced that God is backing him. Do you know why? Because God showed Jonah signs that only him could tell, no one saw it happened. Another funny thing about Jonah is that after declaring God's judgment on Nineveh the inhabitants of that city repented so God didn't destroy the City as Jonah has been shouting for the past 40 days!
So which group of people today has been zealously preaching and industriously teaching people globally about the end of the world but nothing has happened so far? The way and manner this group keep their assignments shows that they've gotten the assurance of what they're saying but 99.9 % of earth's inhabitants mocks them, some are even vilifying them.
Yet all the promises of God about the group that will practice pure worship (true Christianity) in the end time is fulfilling among them!
Will you like to know the true Christians and the IDENTIFYING MARK God foretold in the Bible?
if this is your definition of christianity, then i was indeed a christian. so the aguement that i was not a christian is settled
Dtruthspeaker: I will tell you, 1) Broken HardMirror 2) unhappypagan 3) known unknown 4) FoJ
And all atheist both in nairaland and beyond.
Then many of birth associates and close relations by blood have already booked a suite there.
Hell awaits all who do evil.
unfortunately wishes are not horses, keep wishing me bad, you will continually be frustrated. calling me all the above has not impact on my reality, guess you are out of ideas. perhaps that is what the holy spirit in you is inspiring you to type.
I watched the above video titled; ISLAM AND BRITISH VALUES by BBC Big Questions
Most of the issues brought forward that are concerns relating to human rights abuses perpetuated in the name of Islam and the issues of the core belief of majority muslim scholars who actually support extreme measures such as killing of apostates or people they feel dishonor the religion. Even Seun Osewa opened a thread here to seek the opinion of Nairaland muslims concerning the Iman that asked that an blasphemer be executed once he is released from custody. most muslims on the thread said they supported the Iman and the guy must be killed. yet the moment Muslims are in the open where they can be identified, they immediately switch and start claiming muslims do not kill.
why do you guys lie so much why cant you just take a stand based on your hatred for non muslims instead of pretending?
in the video above, the muslims keep denying that there are any human rights abuses promoted by muslim clerics. they do not even want to admit that there are any issues at all.
It is really baffling?
we all know that the issues being raised are ABSOLUTELY TRUE, so why dont we first accept the truth and if you dont like it, then we see where we can address them.
i am surprised so many muslims came out to boldly support the Sheikh that the guy must be killed. Yet the same muslims would say Killers are not true muslims. why this dishonesty?
Image123: You ignored the post na, showing that you didn't want to hear. Randi the deceiver being deceived by another deceived deceiver shows a sorry cycle. The funny irony of him trying to stop people from being deceived while being thoroughly deceived by his boyfriend for over 25 years. It moots his whole life. He's a victim of what he's allegedly saving others from. Jesus Christ is a better Savior, so no thanks.
I don't bother replying you specifically because you lack the mental capacity to talk to me. I am only replying now because the issues being discussed should be very basic for you to understand
Image123: A dead baby is in a better place and will forever be with God compared to a fool that dies at 120. Think big.
more like think stupid. the so called dead baby, if god so much wanted them to be in a better place, what was the point of allowing them to be born into this "bad" place in the first place?
Image123: Lol, we wey watch am nko? Do you want to hear us? Don't be an hypocrite.
of cause I want to hear you. Randi never claimed to be super human so him falling for his gay partner's lies is natural. that is what it is all about. being humble to accept you are just human. that is what religious people cannot do they claim to know it al, claim to have god living inside them, claims, claims, claims and claims they cannot substantiate. just like that fraud of a pastor that was exposed in the documentary.
Dtruthspeaker: You are now entering into my personal space (Trespassing) with this .
just say you have created nothing and stop talking nonsense. which yeye personal space. ogbeni, what are the things you have created? afterall, you willingly came here to brag you are a creator and have created things, no body forced you to make that statement. if you aint a liar, tell us those things you have created or just shutup
BassReeves: Please dont misconstrue judgment as killing
Ouch
Well said
Acts 8:34-40 '34The eunuch replied to Philip, “Please tell me, about whom does the prophet say this? About himself or about someone else?” 35Then Philip spoke and beginning with this Scripture he preached Jesus to him [explaining that He is the promised Messiah and the source of salvation]. 36As they continued along the road, they came to some water; and the eunuch exclaimed, “Look! Water! What forbids me from being baptized?” 37[Philip said to him, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he replied, “I do believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] 38And he ordered that the chariot be stopped; and both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord [suddenly] took Philip [and carried him] away [to a different place]; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but he went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the good news [of salvation] to all the cities, until he came to Caesarea [Maritima].'
Brah, all due respect, Enoch and Elijah are no exception to the 'Valar Morghulis' rule because just as like with every other mortal like us, they after their teleportation experiences, ended up being six foot under.
Case in point, Philip was teleported, just as well as Enoch and Elijah were.
Judgement? do you know babies died in the noah flood (if we are to accept the story as true?) what judgement is that? do you know that your god asked isreal to kill innocent people and steal their lands and properties (same thing Fulani bandits are doing) and you call that judgement?
supporters of evil are evil people themselves. this is exactly why I say ALL Christians are evil minded people. if you gues can defend the atrocities of Moses, Joshua, David and the rest, yet think you are better than ISIS, Boko Haram and Fulani bandits, you guys are not serious at all
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Chelsea Vs Villarreal: UEFA Super Cup - 6 - 5 On Penalties by HardMirror(m): 11:24pm On Aug 11, 2021
