₦airaland Forum

4evergod2:
As usual when presented with their much sought after proof they run away and hide.

Confused lot.

You are being ignored because you are not making sense. It is like trying to explain quantum physics to my illiterate house girl that can't even write her name.
Being ignored can be painful, but take heart

UyiIredia:
Is consciousness a chemical product or a form of energy?

We have proven consciousness to be a product of physical entities. Now prove otherwise and stop going in circles. You are just asking the same questions in different ways just to waste our time since you know you have nothing else to say.

UyiIredia:
But those brain, nerves and hormones are not consciousness are they no? Not even their action is consciousness any more than a running engine is Driving a car. Their action results in a consciousness that is immaterial. Earlier I said that consciosuness is the state of being aware. Clearly that is not a material thing. Yet you foolishly insist it is. And point to the brain as if that helps.

Consciousness is a product not an absolute.

Your question is like seeing a fire burning on wood and oxygen then asking if the oxygen is fire or the wood is fire. The fire is the product, it is not inside the wood.

Consciousness is not inside your hormones or nerves or brain or the drugs that can alter your consciousness, it is a product of these things.

Please are you educated

UyiIredia:
SMH. No it is not. Your brain updating i fromation from the senses is one thing. The consciousness it results in is another thing.

What other thing?
You are struggling to find where to insert God into the whole process. Unfortunately you have not found a solid ground to build your argument as you are met with the obstacles of the physical and chemical triggers of consciousness.

I am waiting to see how you will sneak God into the process.

UyiIredia:
The shoe itself has length as well as the hand wearing it. That is a physical property. You should be able to tell a physical property of consciousness if it is physical as you claim. If you can't tell me a physical or chemical property then it is not physical. And don't give me that useless copout of wearing a shoe. The shoe as well as the hand that wears it are physical with clear physical properties.

So you agree that to evaluate the physical proponents of the act of wearing a shoe, you have to look at the physical elements such as the shoe, hands and legs involved in the act. Well there is your answer. It is exactly the same for consciousness, you examine the physical properties of the elements involved in consciousness, such as the brain, nerves, hormones and stimuluses

hopefulLandlord:
The purpose this thread was created for is that atheists finally become theists since OP just discovered a "groundbreaking" discovery that would FINALLY prove to any doubters that god exists

But what this thread would succeed in doing is making certain theists to become atheists

Reading the arguments with clear mind does that

The dilemma that Nairaland theists go through is that in trying to PROVE their god exists, they infact prove he doesn't or at least they're not sure

They're making doubting theists turn atheist

And making atheists stand firm

Exactly. It only takes an honest mind reading through to see that.

One would think all atheists would be applauding him for finally proving God exists, but he only succeeded in throwing more light to why God does not exist.

UyiIredia:
This is the definition I used

consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

now is 'the state of being aware' physical? The correct answer is no, it is not.

Yes it is.

Just seeing that you said it is not. Lol
So it is spiritual and proves god? Consciousness is absolutely physical. It is my brain updating and interpreting information from my senses constantly.

UyiIredia:
Okay. Since you insist consciousness is physical what are its physical properties.

You take the attention I am giving you for granted. Consciousness is ruled by action and reaction principles.
Don't take this as a liberty to ask everything that fits your whims. This is like aslking for the physical properties of love, jealousy, greed.

You keep evading. You said if consciousness was caused by chemicals and nerves in the brain, what is the chemical formula for consciousness. A very stvpid question, yet I still indulged your stvpidity and explained using a chemical battery that produces electricity. Here you are with another question.

All I see is a man grasping for straws here.

No brain, no consciousness. No nerves- no consciousness, no hormones - no consciousness. All this has been proven.

What are the physical properties of wearing a shoe?

UyiIredia:
Let's go back to definitions shall we. Define consciousness. Use a dictionary of your choice.

You have already defined it on your first page and I am ok with that dictionary definition. Don't waste our time here going in circles. Obviously you have nothing else to say.

UyiIredia:
I have seen the truth and the truth is what I'm telling you but you won't listen. Okay so chemical substances alter consciosuness. But is consciousness a chemical substance? Please answer the question.

You are just so funny.
Chemical substances produces electricity in batteries, is electricity a chemical substance?
You are playing ignorant. Lol
How can you a supposed educated man be asking me if consciousness is a chemical.
The battery example I gave you answers your question

UyiIredia:
But one can attempt to state the chemical the shoe is made of, no? If consciousness is physical as you claim, then it must be made up of chemicals. The physical interplay of nerves in the body is one thing. The consciosuness it effects is quite another thing entirely if one msut be honest.

Hehehehe
Your tactics won't work.

Yes you can give the chemical formula for a shoe but can you give the chemical formula for the act of wearing a shoe?

You can give precise chemical composition of the brain, but can you give a chemical formula for the brain functioning towards self awareness?

It is proven beyond doubt that when you take certain chemical substances, you will alter your consciousness. If you don't believe me, go and take LSD or Cocaine or any had drugs. Even alcohol will alter your consciousness.

Stop going in circles mr man, the truth is staring you straight up

UyiIredia:
But consciousness is not the electrical impulses themselves. To say that would be an equivocation. Consciousness is the result of those electrical impulses and it is an immaterial result.

You are playing into my hands big time.

A robot moving is not the electrical impulses themselves, but the movement is caused by electrical impulses. So same with consciousness, it is not the electrical impulses themselves, but it is caused by the electrical impulses in the brain.

Computer memory is also immaterial, but it is caused by the electrical impulses. When your computer interprets input signals you get an output. Same with your brain without which you cannot be conscious. The fact that without the brain you have no consciousness is enough to point us to the fact that consciousness is physical not spiritual.

UyiIredia:
Just because it is affected by drugs, age or brain surgery does not make consciousness physical. Apparently in humans consciousness has been made dependent on the brain. But that consciousness, unlike the brain and its activities is immaterial. As a function of the brain, consciousness is immaterial. Science can help explain the brain-consciousness connection but it can't explain why there is consciousness at all.

So you have read ALL scientific publications on the subject of consciousness for you to make this authoritative claim that science cannot explain consciousness?
This is how you religious folks desperately try to save an invented man made God by closing your eyes to what is right before you. Posts alone on this thread has already shown that consciousness is dependent on the brain and sensory nerves.

Your argument is like saying computer memory is enabled by the hard disk, but it is not because of the hard disk. You are contradicting yourself.

UyiIredia:
Because that immaterial consciousness is dependent on a physical brain to exist in humans.

So how is it that some drugs can alter your consciousness?

If you smoke good weed your consciousness will be altered. Thanks to the cannabinol (not sure of the spelling) in the weed. Same with lots of other drugs and chemicals.

Does this not tell you that consciousness is controlled by electrical impulses from the nerves and chemical interactions with the brain?

Or are those chemical compounds in hard drugs spiritual?

UyiIredia:
Since you foolishly insist that consciousness is physical tell me it's chemical components.

Were you not the one telling someone not to insult you sometime yesterday? Lol
I guess you are an hypocrite.
Yes consciousness is enabled by your senses and brain. Hormones also play a part in this as I have explained.

Without your eyes you cannot be conscious of the presence of light.

You are conscious of your body because your body is embedded with different sensory nerves that makes you aware of your leg, your head, your hands, all parts of your body.

Your hair does not have nerves so you cannot be conscious of it when I gently cut a strand without pulling at the scalp that has nerves in it.

I spoke about hunger, sexual urge, joy, sadness, they are all controlled by hormones.

And I repeat. Consciousness validates evolution, for it is imperative that an organism is conscious of itself and its environment so it can survive. Design does not need consciousness as the designer is able to program his creation to survive even without consciousness. Eg computers, robots etc. We the designers can take care of them so consciousness is not that important.

Religion makes claim of God being the provider for creations. But the fact is even the most basic virus has to be self conscious and aware of it's environment else it won't survive.

Asking for chemical formula is ridiculous, you can as well ask for chemical formula for wearing a shoe.

Me not being able to give a chemical formula for wearing a shoe does not mean the act of wearing a shoe is not physical. So asking for chemical formula for consciousness which is glaringly a physical interplay of nerves in your body, is ridiculous.


I am 100% sure you are surprised we can give you answers and rubbish your spiritual consciousness claims. So you are seeking evasion

4evergod2:
Doing what you just posted above translates to death but even science has documented cases of people who were clinically dead and were brought back to life medically and they narrated things that happened in the hospital while they were dead and they were spot on accurate.

When I say dead I mean totally dead with no brain activity and eyes closed yer they could see the room and the people in it and even their own dead body from an elevated position. How was this possible?

The fact is that many lf these scientists whose theories many of you are still running around with have abandoned these theories and run to God and you are still on what they have left behind as they realised how foolish they were.

The bolded makes me laugh. so all doctors are christians now? Or all scientists are christians now? So I can't use my own common sense to weigh claims and decide, I have to follow your few supposed converted scientists?
Abeg talk better talk. Don't digress from the topic

UyiIredia:
consciousness /ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/
noun
1. the state of being aware of and responsive to one's
surroundings.

Does that look like a physical thing? Physical things have extension in space by definition. Consciousness is not extended in space and so is not physical.

Yes it sounds like a physical thing to me.
If I zap you with an electric shock, you are aware of it, why? Because of the nerves in your skin that would transmit the message to your brain.
This your consciousness thread is dead on arrival. It in no way proves god

UyiIredia:
Didn't you read the OP. I said consciousness can't evolve because it isn't physical. So no self-evolved organism should be conscious.

When you are hungry, is it not consciousness that makes you aware?
When you wake up in the morning, you become conscious of your self and your environment. Why? Because your senses are active. Consciousness is physical. Our brain, receptors (nose, eyes, ears, skin, tongue), hormones are all that makes us conscious.

UyiIredia:
It's actually one of the arguments I posted earlier on this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/2353987/three-arguments-gods-existence

The argument from consciousness: Consciousness is not a physical thing. It's also called awareness and that's not physical. It's not a physical thing that you can observe and measure but is the means by which you observe and measure. It's critical to my argument that consciousness be understood as something immaterial, which it actually is, going by its definition. If you think about it all knowledge stems from consciousness because to truly know anything you must be aware of it. You cannot know what you are not aware of.

Now if atheists are right then there should be no consciousness at all. In a purely physical world consciousness would be the anathema, something strange. But there is consciousness and therefore the atheist is not correct. Consciousness being immaterial cannot be explained by physical means. It did not evolve since evolution applies to physical beings. It does not spontaenously emerge because emergence typically deals with how complex PHYSICAL systems arise from simpler precursors. Atheism being materialistic in nature has nothing to offer to explain mental awareness. But the theist believing in an eternal conscious God has a means to explain consciousness. And that my friends wraps up my argument.

Cc thehomer Seun cloudgoddess Blaqsmith dalaman ichommy HardMirror johnydon22 onetrack joseph1013 Kay17 plaetton Davien ValentineMary lepasharon reallest freecocoa K9blunt Amusaopeyemi

Wrong.
There is no consciousness without self awareness.

It makes more sense that a self evolved organism would be self aware than a designed organism.

Consciousness is as simple as feeling hungry, you feel hungry and you are conscious of it. What makes you know you are hungry? They are called the hunger hormones leptin and ghrelin are responsible for triggering hunger. This means even if you are not hungry and this hormones are artificially injected into you, you can deceive your consciousness into thinking you are hungry.

What makes you happy? Hormones
What makes you feel sexual urges? Hormones

Interaction of different hormones with our brains are responsible for our day to day consciousnesses.

Our striving for survival prompts curiosity about our environment, man has evolved enough to absorb, investigate and understand his environment than other animals. This does not in any way make other animals less conscious of themselves.

Again, it is more plausible for an organism to be self conscious (without which there can't be survival of the fittest (evolution)) than a designed organism to be conscious. If your mobile phone evolved by itself, it would be conscious, if your car evolved, it would be conscious, else how would it have survived on it's own.

So consciousness actually supports evolution, it in no way invalidate evolution. And it in no way validates God.

terrezo2002:
I am beginning to wonder who needs a psychatrist. People who have loved darkness more than light. lies more than truth.
whether you like it or not, there are angels and demons. When you die you will understand then. But you can come quickly for help before it is too late. If you dont believe, then enjoy your remaining few years on earth.

Ladies and gentle men! Here is a man that has obviously died and has confirmed the existence of angels and demons. Shall we applaud while he comes forward to describe how they look to us?

Niflheim:
4.Valkyries are female angels from Scandinavian /Viking Mythology!!! The Vikings/Valkyries never had horns on their helmets!!! It was a Hollywood Director who popularized that image in the 60s, when he made a film about Vikings with cow horns on their heads!!! WHY IS IT THAT WHEN MODERN DAY PEOPLE CLAIM THAT A VALKYRIE APPEARED TO THEM, AND WHEN YOU ASK THEM TO DRAW AN IMAGE OF THIS VALKYRIE, THE IMAGE THEY WILL ALWAYS DRAW IS THE FAKE ONE(CREATED FROM TELEVISION WITH COW HORNS), AND NOT THE ORIGINAL ONE(FROM SCANDINAVIAN MYTHOLOGY, THAT HAD A NORMAL METALLIC HELMET, AND NO COW HORNS ATTACHED TO IT)?

I love this part the most.

Greatzeus:
Op you spiritually ignorant,you are recommending a Psychiatrist for those with spiritual issues,if a person sees demons how on earth a Psychiatrist be able to stop that since they work by psychological methods and theories propounded by some dead dudes like Sigmund Freud.
Only the spiritual can understand the spiritual.Remember what Jesus said about the strong man and another stronger man coming to dispossess him of his goods?

If you know you also see demons, please see a psychiatrist real quick. I recommend traveling to a developed nation cos nigerian doctors are unprofessional and superstitious.

All the best

Bridgetania:
Lolzz..what has the specie of snake got to do wit the plan of salvation provided by God to save me from my life of sin??
Stop confusing yourself, if u don't wanna believe in God, its not a must!

Lol
So u don't have an answer?

Bridgetania:
I think u atheist should stop using nairaland as a platform to discourage theist!..since u are wise enough, pls be content and remain where u are, stop dragging odas to ur misconcepted mentality!..;'( ...mbok!! Leave us alone ooooo.. I Believe in God Almighty and refuse to see reasoning to disbelief God!..Eve made this mistake by Allowing Satan through the form of a serpent to brainwash her and to convince and see reasons with him why God is a liar, Now even our generation is paying for it, coz tru dia sin, dey lost d perfect nature!. I AmA Believer!..no amount of carnal mind sensitization will change it!!!

Are you tired already? You opened a thread for atheists of recent, I guess you thought that thread will have an adverse effect on us or discredit our stand.

Which specie of serpent deceived eve? Cos there are thousands of snake species and all of them crawl on their bellies, makes me wonder why they are all legless when only one snake interacted with eve.
So eve is the reason why the world is as it is? Interesting.

If you know you see anything spiritual; spirits, demons, angels, witches etc.

Please and please don't waste time, you need to see a psychiatrist before it is too late.

Are you a pastor and you keep battling demons.

You cast out demons and you can interact with them?

Both you the pastor (deliverer) and possessed (delivered) are already going psycho. Seek help before it is too late.

You keep living in fear, fear of all animals and birds all in the name of witches pursuing you? You need psychiatric evaluation. Don't delay.

Are you a satanist? You interact with demons? Please seek help before it is too late.

We have lost many good people to this madness.




A word is enough for the wise.

Image123:
i can tell you many things about God and what He has done for me and my family. i have never met anyone who can tell me many things about gwagwa and what it has done for them and their family.

I am alive today all thanks to Great Gwagwa. Great Gwagwa is the reason why the world has not come to an end, he is the preserver of life.

How difficult was that for me to claim.

I Pray and ask great gwagwa to save you from the dangers of the night and see if you won't wake up safely tomorrow. Then you shall know Great Gwagwa is real.

CAPSLOCKED:


THEY'LL SAY ONE THING AND GO ON TO SHOW ANOTHER, THEY'LL PREACH EVERY WORD OF GOD TO YOU, SOMETHING THEY ALWAYS FAIL TO ABIDE IN.

ONCE A GIRL SAID SHE'D LEAVE ME IF I DON'T DO CHURCH AND FELLOWSHIPS WITH HER.
I DIDN'T STRESS SHIIT, IT DIDN'T TAKE ANY TIME BEFORE SHE STARTED COMING OVER TO MY PLACE ON SUNDAY MORNINGS TO PLAY FIFA14 WITH ME , AND TAKE MY ALMIGHTY D IN THE EVENINGS INSTEAD OF GOING FOR HER FELLOWSHIP.

Lol na so. Same experience I have with lots of them

dalaman:
Which is the true christian sect or denomination? Is it the Catholic Church? Is it the white garment church? Is it the seven days adventist? Is it the word of faith prosperity church? Is it your own local church? Which is the true church care to name it?

Why don't you allow this intelligent designer to provide evidence for people by it self? Why are you doing its work for it. I thought you claim he is able to do all things? You were asking for video evidence. Pls am waiting for you to provide video evidence of this your intelligent designer designing the earth?

He is God's PRO lol.

winner01:
Who is this one. When you check what the dictionary meaning of reincarnation is, please come here and define it so that people can see your stark ignorance.

Did the person come back in another form? And please tell us, what the the facts proving reincarnation?
Who ever said this is reincarnation or that the Bible supports reincarnation?

Did you loose your brains? The only truth here is how much ignorance you are showing.

Go check the dictionary meaning of reincarnation and post it here so that people can compare it to the claims of the op and also see your semi-illiteracy.
And please give the available proof of reincarnation.

Hehehehehe
See how you are skipping about. Lol
You crack me up real good.

First you claim after death is judgment and that heaven and hell is the destination of the dead

I challenged this with reincarnation

You quickly realize that there are stories of reincarnation so you quickly said jesus was responsible for reincarnation.


I challenged you to show where the bible ever talked about reincarnation.

You quickly realize your mistake that reincarnation cannot be proven using the bible, so you are asking me to define reincarnation.

You are just a joker. Who takes this guy serious? Lol

Abi reincarnation in your dictionary is same as resurrection?

I dey feel you jare. Oya post another joke for our amusement.

OFFICIAL336:
You have nothing to prove to me and I have nothing to prove to you.

What about the Ikwerres that claimed they have no root with the Igbos, but does that claim wash historical evidences? No. Just like the Ikwerres, the Egyptians can claim anything, its not my business and those claim can't wash historical evidence. The Egyptians do not have any verifiable evidence of their ancestry, so those claim is NEVER SCIENTIFIC. If I wake up 2mao and start claiming am not from Akwa Ibom and then sell those lie to my children, grand children and that lie passed even to my 10 generations. So does it mean I didn't descend from Aks again. No. Those claim is not SCIENTIFIC.

Since preserved chronological records showed that the Jews descended from Eden and the Igbos record supports that claim, then all life descended from Eden, until their is a verifiable evidence that started otherwise. Their claim is SCIENTIFIC. Thank God for the Jews who preserved those records and also the scripture.

From the time of Adam settlement to Egyptian civilisation is about 4000 yrs. 4000 yrs is too mch for any body who doesn't keep record of his ancestory to forget.

You guys are doing a fantastic job in exposing the lies of the bible yourselves. It is obvious even to the blind how you are desperately patching things together to save the bible.

I dey gbadun you. Keep it up.

Kunberg:
Before u muster courage to tell her, u shud have gotten enough facts and figures to convince her of ur stands.

It has not been easy to defend though, it only takes u not to be dependant on anybody to achieve ur atheists aim. Aside that u will be purnished and denied some things and benefits

Forget facts and figure. Only an open minded person will dare even try and reason with an atheist. If I want that lady by all means, I would pretend and get her. Many of these so called christians are not doing what their bible teaches after all so pretending aint that hard.

malachytochukwu:
Just saw in one of the threads that you are still in 100L.Dont start off your life with this kind of belief cos you ain't seen nothing yet. Time shall come when you will be in serious need of the Almighty, you shall call on him and he will answer you.

You think you can intimidate him cos he is in 100L? You can do that with a religious mind not an atheist. Many of us have lived good lives so far, we have had atheists all through history who did well without god unto their death. So wake up and smell the coffee. You obviously know nothing about life yourself and you obviously are unexposed or a person of knowledge.