₦airaland Forum

HellVictorinho:
Here,Logic is a system where functions are expressed.
But the functions must follow an order that is not affected by change pointlessly.

ThothHermes:
1. Same way I discovered oxygen. Same way I discovered my heartbeat.

2. This would require a PhD thesis and even that I suspect would not be enough. What are your features/characteristics/nature?

3. Refer to answer one.

Akin1212:
On a serious note, you people are really confused!

So God gave the oppressors and murderers of the girl free will, huh? So God will uphold the freewill of oppressors over saving the oppressed? So God will suppress his own power and ability to help the oppressed because he wants the free will of the oppressors to be used?

Why do you people pray then to save you from your enemies? You want God to suppress the free will of your enemies now so that you can be relieved? You want God to make use of his own power in your case and stop the free will of your enemies from being used?

But when this God shows you people that he doesn't exist, you start looking for excuses and lies to cover up for the non existent God. So much confusion. SMH

Ihedinobi3:
As it is, you asked me to answer this question. I did not volunteer anything to you or call your attention to this matter. The least you could be is courteous. And I have tried to treat you the same way.

As for your demand, it is a common type made of Christians by your kind. And it is very dishonest. Such demands necessarily come because you ask loaded questions which we are forced to answer incorrectly either way. I do not answer loaded questions with yes/no.

Your question essentially demanded two separate things:

1. That I affirm or deny that God is able to do anything at all that He pleases.

2. That I affirm or deny that He is pleased to interfere with use of free will while still preserving it, that is in other words that He is able to contradict Himself.

My answer is that God is able to do anything He pleases and that He was pleased to create free will to be an ability to make a choice about Him. So, He would not interfere in any way that makes it impossible to exercise free will as He Himself has ordained.

That is my answer. And I have no apologies for it. If it does not suit you, feel free to ask somebody else.

ThothHermes:
The ALL, the UNMANIFEST, the UNCAUSED CAUSE.

there is nothing that God cannot do

But the way that God has ordered this Universe, free will is the ability to choose to submit to God and obey Him or to choose instead to rebel against Him and disobey Him. That means that if God prevented the wicked from doing evil when they want to do it, then He has necessarily altered their free will.

ThothHermes:
No.

Ihedinobi3:
@Hermes019, I'm not sure why you tagged me seeing as I am one of those "dumber persons" who explain everything with God's gift of free will.

To answer your post though, this world is evil, so evil things happen in it. As to why God does not intervene, as I always say, it is because of free will. God could stop all evil going on right now without breaking a sweat. But if He does, no one would have a choice but to obey Him. That choice is important because only with it can those who will be God's Eternal Family be separated from those who will not be.

If God prevented those who committed that dastardly act from doing what they did, then not only would their ability to exercise their own free will be taken away but new opportunities for others (like you who are currently affirming your rejection of His Authority as a result) to do the same would not be created effectively denying those others a chance to make a choice about God.

God will in the end heal every damage that all those who trust Him pick up in this life because of the evil of this world. He will also right every wrong and provide perfect justice in every single instance in the end. So, His permission of evil for now is not a problem at all. He can fix the damage that it does. He can also end it at will. Evil is something He permits because of free will.

ThothHermes:
Which fence?
Why are you eager to put me in a box?

ThothHermes:
There we go. So you're anti-Christianity eh

ThothHermes:
First paragraph.

Ihedinobi3:
I think it is obvious that not everyone fears hell. You don't, I assume. Nor do many other atheists on this website, if their own words are anything to judge by.

As I said, it is all about free will. We can choose to fear God. Or to not fear Him. Those who do essentially take His Word for the unpleasantness of Hell. Those who don't, don't.

festacman:
No my good friend, the almighty God who created the heavens and earth with every being including YOU and everything therein also authored the vital complementary Order, Processes, Phenomena, etc. to help the smooth working of the beautiful work of His hand. None is like our God.

festacman:
Who is the authority that authored and sustains the order, processes and phenomena existing in nature?

festacman:
You as a 'being in existence' is the primary evidence that God exists.

ThothHermes:
Yen yen yen...

You have defined God and now you are fighting your definition.

What if God is emotionless?

What if nonintervention in human affairs is part of the plan?

There are numerous possibilities you have not considered.

Stop shadowboxing!

when one is dead, there is no body, so expectedly, there's no more a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part to convey or transmit the pain message. This is a fact and not an opinion Hermes019

You have an issue with the truth, not what I believe in, what I believe in doesnt matter, it is the truth that matters, and that truth, which doesnt fit the bets you're try to hedge on, which doesnt align with your agenda, is that, pain can be and will be felt, in absence of a body, absence of a nervous system or other bodily mechanism

The question you should have asked, is that, is what I wrote in the bible or not. Was the rich man in the parable tormented or not tormented, did the bile say or not that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Do you know that, Jesus, after resurrection, walked through a wall, or was it door?

dlw09:
I found this website by chance.
I live in Beijing, the capital
What do you think about China's communism? sucessful or not?

dlw09:
Nice to meet everybody here

ABCthings:
How do you survive being an atheist.

davodyguy:
Bloggers cant make heaven, too many lies
www.nairaland.com/attachments/8798239_alex_jpeg535cd262498912fddf28d19a057ff294 This is a Toyota Venza/Camry and not a Range Rover.

You guys and stupid lies

BeLookingIDIOT:
There is a difference between a logical explanation and a scientific one- The explanation I had given is hope I wont be causing u to multitask...interrupting ur chats with important humans in ya life this morning again? logical.
The cause is hell and the effect will be pain-that's a simple enough mechanism.

MuttleyLaff:
Hermes019, we can imagine what hell is like because of the narrative of the famous parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, in it, the rich man is begging for a dip of the tip of Lazarus' finger in water to cool his tongue as he is tormented in there. He even additionally begged to have his brothers be warned about the place, but his request wasnt granted. Elsewhere, like I previously mentioned, the bible, also about fiery furnace, said there will be weeping there and gnashing of teeth in there, obviously not to be taken literally, but still

Ihedinobi3:
Yes indeed, it does, as I believe I mentioned earlier. We have loads of wiggle room with free will. Because we must be free to decide to submit to God or not to as we please, spiritual realities are largely kept hidden from us. For example, the locations of both the Third Heaven where God's Throne currently is and Hades where the Abyss, Torments and the empty Paradise are and which the Lake of Fire will fill in the end are inaccessible to us humans even though angels can access them easily.

So, we can receive what the Bible says as Truth or we can insist that unless we see things for ourselves we won't believe. This choice is exactly the same as choosing to trust God or to reject Him.

We cannot imagine what Hell is like. Really, if we could, nobody would dare to disobey God. But now we know that God says that it exists and that it is unpleasant in the extreme. We can believe that and submit to God. Or we can deny it and rebel against Him. That is how true free will works.

MuttleyLaff:
Ihedinobi3 and I have already told you in different, similar and same ways, but you dont want to accept and acknowledge that in this context after death and without a human body, we are talking of a non-spatial phenomenon, the pain is observed to exist without any involvement of a nervous system, mechanism or other bodily part that conveys the pain message.

I laughed so hard at this comment that I almost knocked over my glass of rouge. I earlier told you I know why you are so concerned about this pain and your obsession to know the mechanism of feeling it

Why arent you interested in the pleasures therein, of being in Abraham's bosom, which now is paradise, instead of this preoccupation with knowing the mechanism for the pain. If I am none the wiser, I would have thought that, it's like your are trying to shack yourself up and prepare yourself for the place with the knowledge you might have obtained or extracted from this thread. Anyway like I've said earlier, I know why you are devoted to this question

Ihedinobi3:
I have actually answered you a few times already. I will try one more time in another way.

Here are the points:

1. Spirits are different from physical beings because they do not possess physical bodies. This means that they do not have nervous systems like physical beings do.

2. But spirits do feel fear and joy and pleasure and anger among other things, according to the Bible. Therefore, it is to be expected that they are capable of feeling pain even if not physical pain since they lack physical bodies with which to register physical damage.

3. That is, the Bible teaches that spirits will suffer pain in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:10).

4. But, it does not teach how they do in fact feel anything at all. This is the answer to your question. Christians who are diligent to study and follow the Bible cannot tell you how spirits feel anything at all because the Bible does not say.

5. Finally, the lack of that information is deliberate on God's Part. The goal of the Bible is not to tell us everything we want to know. It is only to tell us what we need to know in order to make the choice that we are here on earth for, namely, whether to trust God and submit to Him or to reject Him and rebel against His Authority.

MuttleyLaff:
Hermes019 you know as well as I do, that I have already shown you where in the bible, without the nervous system being involved, discomfort and/or pain is felt, now I literally just had to laugh out loud at the sneaky games you are playing at, like avoiding to mention me, so I wont reply you back and clutching at straw, saying that lady of blessed memory who is a believer, made that remark using human philosophy

You see, I know why you are so concerned about this pain issue but your problem is that you dont want to accept and acknowledge that in this context after death and without a human body, we are talking of a non-spatial phenomenon, the pain is observed to exist without any involvement of a nervous system or other bodily part to convey the pain message.

Hermes019 dont get personal and becoming unneccesarily frustrated. There is a distinction between beliefs and truth, beliefs are not necessarily truths. I will again advise you to confirm what light you're looking at, is it a glow or might it be a glare?