₦airaland Forum

ThierryJay:
And this particular impact in the QF, what you call a nothing pass was made after Messi twisted and turned over 2 or 3 belgian defenders and gave Dimaria a pass having freed him up. Without Messi's ingenuity in that moment to attract bodies and free up space, Di Maria doesnt get a pass and Higuain doesnt score. .

He didn't do anything but a half turn away from Witsel and pass. That turn and pass is a nothing move that Xavi, Modric and co do 50 times a game. Di.Maria was in no threatening position. All that happened is the ball ricocheted from the direction heading to the right back into the path of Hugain who had a lot to do to finish that ball

When you guys want to do fraud, you can say anything


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hkBW25AhBI

ThierryJay:
twisted the Belgian markers to create space for Higuain's goal in the QF. Maybe you watching a different WC in an alternate dimension.

Are you alright? Messi played a nothing pass in midfield to Di Maria, who tried to play another pass to the right back and it deflected and somehow ran kindly for Hugain. When you want to do fraud, you will start making up shyt that doesn't exist to justify the fraud, that's why it's a fugazi.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hkBW25AhBI

ThierryJay:
So Zidane collecting World best with only 2 goals in WC final na fugazi. Modric winning WC golden ball with 1 goal in 2018 na fugazi? For you to equate golden ball with number of goals shows great deficiency in your football analytical acumen.

Zidane did not collect Golden ball in 1998 and Messi did not score in 2015 final to compare with Zidane, plus he lost unlike Zidane and even lost his penalty in the shootout. How more fugazi can you be?

Modric is a midfielder

Any forward that goes to tournament and collects golden ball with one goal and didn't win the tournament is a fugazi

Any forward that collect golden ball with no knockout stage impact where even the FIFA President confessed is a fugazi. . . is a fugazi

We are only taking of the dodgy awards now,not the tournaments where he clearly flopped, of which there are numerous

ThierryJay:
All what you put up there is subjective hogwash not fit for objective intellectual scrutiny. The fact is that he won six tournament golden balls out of a possible 12 major international tournaments which is an excellent international record. Pls name one player other than Messi that won best player in half of all tournaments played. Just one!.

There's nothing subjective about saying a nigga with one goal collecting golden ball is a fugazi as Messi did in Copa 2015, and a nigga with no impact in the knockout stage in 2014 WC collecting golden ball is a fugazi, which even the President of the awarding body confessed to

The streets know Messi has only collected 2 legitimate golden balls and flopped clearly in 7 tournaments out of 11. You even had to sneak in the nonsense Finalissima to bolster his stats

Now name the tournament Pele flopped in. You have 4 World Cups, 1 COPA and 3 IC Cups to choose from, that's 8 tournaments with 5 best player awards, 1 young player award (should have been best player), 4 golden boots and the other 2 tournaments he was kicked off the pitch (but not before scoring). That's dominance

Ballzproblem2:
na so na , anyways I won't mind Barca keeper though,if we give una like £50m, una go use am clear wage

You done start to recommend another Kukuruku and Fofana to us again

forgiveness:
Records

*Joint-most goals for Brazil national football team: 77 (95 including unofficial friendlies) (tied with Neymar)

*Highest goals-per-game ratio (0.84) for Brazil national football team

*Highest goals-per-game ratio (0.84) of any South American top international scorer

*Highest goals-per-game ratio (2.33) of any leading scorer in the Intercontinental Cup

*Most goals in the Intercontinental Cup: 7

*Most goals for Santos: 643 (in 659 competitive games)

*Most goals scored in a single Campeonato Paulista season: 58 (in 38 competitive games,1958)

*Most goals in a calendar year (recognised by FIFA): 127 (1959)

*Most hat-tricks in world football: 92

*Most career goals in world football (including friendlies): 1,283 (in 1,363 games)

*Most FIFA World Cup winners' medals: 3 (1958, 1962, 1970)

*Youngest winner of a FIFA World Cup: aged 17 years and 249 days (1958)

*Youngest goalscorer in a FIFA World Cup: aged 17 years and 239 days (for Brazil vs Wales, 1958)

*Youngest player to score twice in a FIFA World Cup semi-final: aged 17 years and 244 days (for Brazil vs France, 1958)

*Youngest player to score a hat-trick in a FIFA World Cup: aged 17 years and 244 days (for Brazil vs France, 1958)

*Youngest player to play in a FIFA World Cup Final: aged 17 years and 249 days (1958)

*Youngest goalscorer in a FIFA World Cup Final: aged 17 years and 249 days (for Brazil vs Sweden, 1958)

*Youngest player to score twice in a FIFA World Cup Final: aged 17 years and 249 days (for Brazil vs Sweden, 1958)

*Youngest player to start a knockout match at a FIFA World Cup

*Youngest player to reach five FIFA World Cup knockout stage goals

*Youngest goalscorer for Brazil national football team: aged 16 years and nine months (Brazil vs Argentina, 1957)

*First player to score in four successive FIFA World Cups

*One of only five players to have scored in four different FIFA World Cup tournaments

*One of only five players to have scored in two different FIFA World Cup Finals

*Scored in two FIFA World Cup Finals for winning teams (shared with Vavá)

*Most assists provided in FIFA World Cup history: 10 (1958–1970)

*Most assists provided in a single FIFA World Cup tournament: 6 (1970)

*Most assists provided in FIFA World Cup Final matches: 3 (1 in 1958 and 2 in 1970)

*Most assists provided in FIFA World Cup knockout phase: 6 (shared with Messi)

*Most goals from open play in FIFA World Cup Final matches: 3 (2 in 1958 and 1 in 1970) (shared with Vavá, Geoff Hurst and Zinedine Zidane)

*Only player to reach 25 international goals as a teenager

*Only player to score in a FIFA World Cup before turning 18

*Only player to score a hat-trick in a FIFA World cup before turning 18

*Only player to have scored a hat-trick in the Intercontinental Cup

Imagine, Messi just dey reach some of dis level after decades of active football and still trying to catch up.

These are the doings of a GOAT, unlike Expert17 list that reads like a laundry list of a desperate old man playing million matches over 3 decades

Imagine these disgraceful doings he put for Messi. Tell me someone desperately hustled in 3 different decades without telling me he couldn't achieve much. And he had the nerve to say Pele could never

Oldest and youngest yada yada yada, 5 different tournaments yada yada yada, chasing something Pele did easily at 17

Expert17:
* Lionel Messi is the only player to assist goals at four and five different World Cup tournaments.

* Lionel Messi is the oldest player to win the World Cup Golden Ball (35 years, 178 days).

* Lionel Messi holds the record for the longest period between a player’s first and most recent World Cup goals (16 years and 183 days).

* Lionel Messi is the only player to score a World Cup goal in his teens, 20s and 30s.


* Lionel Messi is one of only six players to appear at five different World Cup tournaments – Antonio Carbajal, Lothar Matthaus, Rafael Marquez, Cristiano Ronaldo and Andres Guardado are the others.

* Lionel Messi is the only player in World Cup history – at least since such records began in 1966 – to score and assist a goal in four separate matches.

* Lionel Messi is the youngest and oldest player in World Cup history to score and assist a goal in the same match.


Dominating Mr. Vasco Da Farmer everywhere.....E Choke

ThierryJay:
Nah this capping is too much.

Messi won best player award in 2 Copas (2015 and 2021). He actually won a third in 2016 (when he scored 6 goals) but he rejected it and it was given to Sanchez.

Best player in 2 World cups which even Pele could not achieve.

Best player in Olympic 2008.

So how would you objectively call a six-time international tournament best player a "flop in too many international tournaments" I guess in your dictionary, Mbappe flopped as well in this World Cup just because he didnt win.

Instead of you to own up to your own prior admissions about the quality of Pele's goal statistics back in 2010 you are trying to save face with some disjointed clarifications when confronted with your about-turn like Piers Morgan. Who says you could not have hopped on the Pendu train sometimes after 2011 to warrant your subsequent comments? At least Piers was honest enough to admit that.

You will not whitewash history by being selective. If a guy plays 10 tournaments and flopped in 7, he is far from dominant

Messi flopped in 2006 WC, 2010 WC, 2018 WC

His 2014 was meh, with no impact in the knockout stage

He flopped in 2011 Copa, 2019 Copa clearly

Bullied by Robinho of all people in 2007 Copa

He scored one goal in 2015 Copa but somehow won the polling booth, same as 2014 ojoro

Only time he achieved success was using Croatia pattern of finding a strong penalty saving goalkeeper. Even when he won, he was not dominant outside of penalties with only goals against France and Holland in all the top tier teams he faced in the World Cup. Compared to Pele who was supremely dominant

Messi is the Pepe of GOATS, the old man who keeps going to tournaments hoping it would finally click

Now name one international tournament Pele flopped in

iamoyindamola:
The only difference between your own madness with Don j is your own never germinate enter street
Shouting own goal ain't apology coward

Ha. I never know how DonJ and Amoto dey beef and you dey beef them both equally. Triangle of death

Debroslink:
I don't care if Pele won golden ball and golden Boot at COPA. The main point is that he lost and couldn't add COPA to his CV.

Nah, the main point is Messi flopped in too many International tournaments. Pele didn't flop in a single one. He was more dominant

Expert17:
Lol, don't waste your time.

Messi isn't the GOAT because he won the World cup late BUT Pele that played all his club career in the farmers league is the GOAT.

A farmers league guy that dominated all International competition while Alexis Sanchez was bullying your GOAT for decades in COPA

forgiveness:
When does celebrating him winning world cup tantamount to being adjourned the goat?

Continue to lie to yourself.

I asked Ohbrittania to pull up a quote from me showing I said WC makes Messi the GOAT, he started rambling about Kanye and Kim Kardashian and his problems with limited data. I leave him to his own devices

andrewbaba44:
Same thing we are telling him now is what he is telling the other guy

I don’t know what changed ,even pele himself is confused about the amount of goals he scored by editing it everytime ,man was class but scored so many un official goals added to official goals

I don’t know what changed ,ibime might just be the biggest amala turner here

Nothing has changed. There is nothing wrong with questioning Pele rubbing his 1,000 goals in the young man's face, as the quality of opponents could be questionable, but that has never changed my criteria for GOAT status. Same year I said Messi can join Pele IF he keeps this up, showing Pele and Maradona have always been my Gods. Notice the year was 2010 and I never mentioned Ronaldo, so this is not a case of a repentant Penduist

Ibime:
If Messi should continue this form, he will form a triumvirate with Maradona and Pele, a closed circle which Zidane does not belong to. . . . cos if Zidane belongs in such company, then we must also admit Ronaldo, Cruyff, Eusebio, Di Stefano etc.

And after Messi failed repeatedly to match Peles standards on the international stage, I told Debroslink 4 years ago that a World cup win can no longer take Messi above Pele, but he can still join the triumvirate.

The reason is simple - at this late stage of his career, he cannot claim the undisputed GOAT because he did not establish the dominance over his peers that Pele did. Messi went to countless COPAs and World Cups and did not shine. Pele shined and dominated every single international tournament he touched barring injury. He went to 4 World Cups, beasted two, was kicked out the other two by hatchet men. He went to one COPA America, won the Golden boot and Golden ball, went to 3 Intercontinental cups, won the golden boot in all, absolutely beasted them with 9.goals. There is not a single international tournament he did not establish absolute dominance over his peers unlike Messi who flopped continuously and was bullied continuously by Alexis Sanchez in COPA, Zidane, Xavi, Sneijder, Forlan, Robben and co in WC, and kept going for 16 years in order to finally put his name on the trophy. That's my argument for Pele - his dominance over his peers. Any of the triumvirate can make their claim to be the GOAT but Pele established the most dominance over his peers among the three

basilico:
THey have kept me busy I have not been active here.,
I will send some eggs to Ibime impoverished family.

Let me know when rent is due since I'm living in your head

Bimmarlykay:
Ibeme can't be above 50, hence he never watched Pele play only clips which mostly tells good side of a story. No disrespect to Pele, i watched few clips of him and trust me Pele was the originator most of the skills we see today Pele did.But as it stands now Messi is the new Pele believe me you.

I am far from that age. I have many seniors on here. 1994 was the first time I watched football with my senses of what I was watching, though I watched 1993 Under-17, 1992 Nations Cup and parts of 1990 WC without my full senses. So you can guess my age approximately

Phraser:
Bla, bla, bla. More condescension from someone who thinks you do not know football if you are not 150 years old. I'm a Barça fan, and you think I wouldn't know of R9's goal?

But that's not the point. The question is: which of Pele's goals remains a part of modern-day pop culture, just like Maradona's solo run against England or Zidane's volley against Bayer Leverkusen?

No one cares if he was the first to dribble on the moon. We are talking about his greatness/legacy/popularity/impact. You say he has more than Messi. So which of his goals are instantly recognizable by many in pop culture today?

Peles header against Italy, his round the keeper move, Gordon Banks save from Pele header and Brazil's team goal against Italy for which Pele provided the assist and is lauded as the greatest team goal ever. These are what are iconic on my TV screen, not no Getafe goal

Like I said the more you talk, the more you expose your myopia and ignorance and what your social media algorithms feed you

I named some goals I have seen a few times on a par with Messi goal against Getafe. I have only seen that goal against Getafe maybe twice. One of them was even forced on me by a gif Airmark posted here. Talk about your algorithms that occur to you Messi dickrydas that go looking for that shyt, it has never appeared on my feed. But I go looking for the goals I mentioned. When World Cup is starting this Italy team goal is always played over here in UK, nobody is playing Getafe goal on my TV, never seen it on TV. Super sports should do better in Africa with historical reviews when World Cup is about to start so some clown won't tell me about Getafe goal, when I've seen the goal below on my TV dozens of times.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5HbmeNKino


This Pele header in 1970 WC final is more iconic than any of Messi goals. This is what they shown my TV. What have they shown for Messi in World Cup, a man who had no World Cup history?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPzNStFGgno


Then you have the Pele round the world miss. Miss that is more iconic than any goal they have ever showed for Messi when World Cup is starting. I guess they can now show the tapin against France going forward.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UzRsvCsC4c

Phraser:
But your logic of gauging an individual's greatness with team trophies is sound?

Messi will not be as popular when he retires. But many years from now, his solo goal against Getafe will remain a cultural meme, as will Maradona's goal against England from 36 years ago. Which of Pele's goals has dominated the popular imagination in that way? Answer: none.

When you write stuff like this you only show your ignorance

Pele was the first to dribble from his own box and score which went round the world

If I ask you to tell me about R9 similar goal against Compostela, can you?

Do you know of Saeed Al Owairan goal for Saudi Arabia against Belgium in 1994 where he dribbled the whole pitch, or do you know of George Weahs own?

Only speak within your breadth of knowledge and what your generation shares on Social Media, don't assume we didn't see things that our TVs popularised before social media

Bluelines69:
So you’re just arguing against yourself at this point because you clearly said the old man should go and sit down with his 5km per game running era

Nope, it's not my job to boost your agenda, despite dropping clues that one of you can use to argue against Pele

The Brazilian State Championship is what you should have used to defeat Peles total career goals tally and hand that area of the argument to Messi, however Peles tallies in World Cup, Intercontinental Cup, COPA America and dominance over his peers on the World Stage still shyts on Messi handsomely emboldening his GOAT claim

I'm consistent in my dogma. I don't expect a player in the 1970s to enter a pitch with a player in the 1990s, nor a player in the 1990s to enter a pitch with a player in the 2010s because they operated under different spacial conditions due to the km players ran in each era (5km in 70s, 8km in the 90s and 10+km today) that's why I've maintained this is about how you performed in your era, not trying to time travel players into another era. You cant guess how a player from the 70s will perform today given the same physical training and sports science.

That's why I have been consistently saying this is about greatness against your peers. Raumdeuter knows my football dogma over how playing conditions changed with the km players run, that's why he subtly signposted you to that argument to throw hurdles in my argument, but it's consistent with my debates over the GOAT.

Ibime:
Your problem as above is that you want to conflate greatness with who was better

Who compares who is better over different eras with different sets of conditions?

Greatness is about how dominant you are over your peers and your achievements and stats and Pele is miles above Messi in that respect. I'm not interested in who is better which is a frankly foolish argument

Ibime:
The only thing you can say is players covered more km back in the day

Phraser:
"Of your generation."

Condescension and ageism are not valid arguments, man.

So it is because of this generation's ignorance that there is no Pele goal that is instantly recognizable in modern-day pop culture or that is as ubiquitous as Maradona's solo run against England or Messi's solo run against Getafe?

You don't even know how to argue. You keep shifting the goal post and cannot maintain a syllogistic thought. First you said you were talking about greatness (which really is legacy/popularity) and not who the better player is, and then I talked about how Messi has more instantly recognizable goals in pop culture, and now you are contradicting yourself by saying that Pele's goal in the 1958 final is "better" than anything Messi scored in the World Cup (I thought we were talking about greatness, not who is better or has scored the better goals?)

Please read philosophy and learn logic. You clearly have a problem with maintaining a line of reasoning.

You are the one with jumbled logic

You are conflating greatness with the popularity of your generation

Do you think Messi popularity will be the same in 60 years. DK yo know how popular Maradona was 30 years ago, or do you think Diana Ross would still be dragging popularity with Beyonce in this day and age

In Peles days, he was the most popular footballer with no dispute. Messi disputed with Ronaldo his whole career. So what are you saying?

Bluelines69:
Omo

This is the clue I gave you Pessimist generation to use against Pele yesterday but none of you are grounded in football to make legitimate arguments

Ibime:
None of these Indomie generation have brought good argument against Pele

Pele has one weakness you can use to argue against him, but nobody has mentioned it, because none of them are grounded

Ibime:
He got one statistical weakness Pessimists can use against him, and that lies in Brazilian State Championship structure

Almajirihunter:
So where are we now

Pele, Messi, Maradona in that order

And I used to rate Maradona over Pele in my younger years. Every generation rate what they saw, but when you review the records and are removed from the euphoria of watching someone live, you will see Peles doings are unparalleled in terms of his dominance over his peers compared to Maradona dominance over his peers and Messi dominance over his peers.

forgiveness:
U dey mind the dude? He is ignorant.

He is typing ignorance with confidence

Phraser:
Ibime,

Also, speaking of influence/legacy, how many of Pele's goals are instantly recognizable in popular culture? People know Messi's run against Getafe and Athletic Bilbao, his header against United and the out-of-the-box goal he scored against them in '11, his freekick goal against Liverpool, his solo run against Real Madrid on receiving a pass in the midfield from Busquets. And now I think the long-range shot he scored against Mexico in this World Cup and the assist he provided in the Netherlands game will enjoy that pop culture status.

So popular are these goals that they have become memes. Which of Pele's goals is in the popular imagination like any of the ones cited above? At least Maradona has the Hand of God goal and the famous run against England.

You can only talk of the ignorance of your generation

Peles goal in 1958 World Cup final is better than anything Messi ever did in World Cup, and if was done in final. Go and check it out. Peles header in 1970 final is an iconic goal they use to kick off all World Cup coverage. Peles banana freekick in World Cup, The man literally popularised the bicycle kick

No one is dragging popularity with Messi in this generation. After all 65% of the world's population is under 30 and only 10% over 65

Ask your elders who were iconic in their time . You never see them drag Pele with any other player like Messi did his whole career with Ronaldo until Emi Martinez gave him the final push. Pele was undisputed and totally dominant

Everybody that saw Pele is dead or in nursing home and he is still considered a GOAT. That's eternal GOAT shit.

OhBritannia:
How the argument went from messi must win the world cup first to be the greatest of all time To Pele has three world cups so he is greater than Messi

This is how GOD confuses haters

If they ask you to quote this now you would start fumbling

Messi needed to win the World Cup to be considered with Pele and Maradona or disappear into obscurity. He never stood a chance of being the GOAT. It's too late for him

Bluelines69:
I can’t even figure which player played better than Messi at that 2014 World Cup, Germany were brilliant collectively, links and YouTube videos go soon finish while we enjoy the greatest of all time Live on TV

If Oliver Khan a goalkeeper could win golden ball over Ronaldo in 2002 for making few saves Vs Ronaldo who tore the tournament down with 8 goals scoring the only two goals in the final, the only goal in the semi, and in the second round also. . . .

Why would Neuer who revolutionised goalkeeping in the 2014 world cup lose to someone without a single goal contribution in the knockout stage

Neuer also won the tournament with decisive contribution in the final Vs Oliver Khan who lost the final

You can see the playing field is not equal

We haven't come to Rodriguez, Robben or even Neymar or the German midfielders or Philip Lahm who deserved it more.

Phraser:
My argument for why Messi is the better/greater player (than Pele) is because he has more longevity, is the more complete player, has better technique, and because he played and thrived in a more modern and difficult era (against players with better technique and athleticism than those Pele faced). Bonus: he has more flair and his play style is more pretty to look at.

You talk too much without saying anything. You said you have been following my arguments and nothing I have shown shows Pele greater than Messi when everything I have shown shows Pele bodying Messi from stats to achievements to trophies on a like for like comparative basis

Your problem as above is that you want to conflate greatness with who was better

Who compares who is better over different eras with different sets of conditions?

Greatness is about how dominant you are over your peers and your achievements and stats and Pele is miles above Messi in that respect. I'm not interested in who is better which is a frankly foolish argument

Mohammed Ali is greater than Tyson Fury but Tyson Fury will beat him today

Moussa Dembele of Spurs is better by far than Jorginho of Chelsea but Jorginho is greater by virtue of achievements and trophies

So don't waste our time with too much words on nonsensical arguments

Players are to be compared in relation to their era, we are not interested in time travel to see who is better.

Ibukzy:
Brazil would have won all those finals without Pele goals

In 1958

Brazil was leading 2-1 before he scored

1n 1962

He didn't play in the final

In 1970

He scored first but the goal was cancelled by Boninsegna goal for Italy and the match ended by 4-1 with Jarzinho, Alberto and Gerson scoring the decisive goals

Pele scored the first in 1970 final, assisted the second and third - score 4 - 1

Scored 2 and assisted one in 1958 final - score - 5-2

1958 semi final - scored hattrick - score - 5 - 2

1958 quarter final - scored the only goal of the match

Keep up the lamba. Brazil cannot win 1958 or 1970 without Pele. Ask them what happened in 1966

Before Brazil, Pele never won World Cup, after Pele it took them another 24 years to win again

Pele is to Brazil what Argentinians dreamed for Messi only be disappointed for 15 years before Emi Martinez brought the winning formula via penalties

Bluelines69:
Let’s believe Ibime over FIFA the custodian of world football

You don't need to believe me, believe FIFA President

As FIFA award Oliver Khan over Ronaldo in 2002, you will form mumu or use your own brain?

Ballzproblem2:
Messi was the first player to win player of the tournament twice!,if your Pele really cooked as you are making it out be why didn't he win it

World Cup golden ball that even FIFA President admitted was fraud

Pele, Maradona and Ronaldo are the only players to be best player twice in World Cups, but they were only awarded once

Pele was best in 1958 - awarded to Didi
Maradona was best in 1990 - awarded to Scillachi
Ronaldo was best in 2002 - awarded to Oliver Khan

These are what the streets know outside of the polling booth. And the streets know Messi 2014 golden boot with zero knockout stage goal contribution was a complete fraud, even the FIFA President that awarded it confessed

WhoDeyHause:
Pele playing with Santos then was like almost all the gifted Brazilian players playing in their league or clubs since the Brazil government didn't allow most of them go to Europe. You saw how strong Brazil looked before modric chased them home. Then imagine it like that in those days like garrincha also playing for botafogo. If he was not afraid he should have come to europe not new york cosmos.

Pele was already retired for 2 years before he went to New York. Europe doesn't come into play. He retired in Brazil and chilled for 2 years until New York threw money in his face

Debroslink:
Kini big deal about Benfica that Messi hasn't done to Madrid (greatest club ever). How many league titles did Pele win in that Farmer's league or is it Copa Libertadores titles you wanna compare with Messi's ? Compare his club titles and it will dwarf that of Messi's.

Domestic league trophies... Messi >>>>>>> Pele

Continental trophies... Messi >>>>>> Pele

Copa America... Messi >>>>> Pele (never won it)

WC Best Player... Messi >>>>> Pele (2 > 1)

International goals... Messi >>>>> Pele

Official goal contributions... Messi >>>>> Pele

Pele went to one Copa America only, won the Golden Boot and Golden Ball, lost in the final

Back then Brazil send their B team to COPA, Pele is too big for that, unlike Messi that they had to be throwing COPA every year for before Aston Villa Goalkeeper could finally help him win one with penalty shootouts

All the other stuff you wrote is just from playing more games.

Take away penalties (Messi 109 to Peles 7) and Pele has more absolute goals than Messi on both club and international level, and has a way superior goals per game record - bear in mind Pele played midfield for the second half of his career with that too

hensben:
Ibime rest. Pele was good in one wc, he was carried in the remaining two.

Lies

He was the best player in 2 seperate World Cups

Phraser:
You didn't watch Pele play live, neither did you see him play in many games. What you rely on are "many Pele documentaries" and statistics (which is hardly a reliable way of gauging a footballer's ability), meaning you have no true first-hand empirical knowledge about his ability, and yet you are fully convinced he is the greatest footballer of all time?

Doesn't seem like sound reasoning to me. (At any rate, you are in the minority. Most people choose Messi).

That aside, you said all the "euphoria" around Messi would die down in ten years time. I don't think any right-minded person believes that. Have you seen the man's digital footprint and cultural influence?

If anything, it's Pele's legacy that's at stake—maybe that's why he keeps tinkering with his records on his Instagram page, aware that the world is moving on. The likes of Messi and CR7 were lucky to have played in the social media era, and there are hundreds of clips of them online, unlike Pele whose legacy is solely hinged on word of mouth. 50 more years or so and no one would bother about a player that played in the black-and-white era.

Seems to me like Pele was your football hero growing up and you are stubbornly clinging to the past, because I have read your comments on this thread and have not seen any good arguments from you to back up your claims.

Even if you are deliberately lazy, the 1970 World Cup is available in colour and on all media platforms

You are being deliberately foolish claiming a player with 3 World Cups, 12 non penalty goals, 10 assists in 14 games has no argument against a player with 8 non penalty goals and 8 assists in 25 games

Deliberately foolish claiming a player with 7 Balon d'Ors without playing Europe has no claim against a player with 7 Balon d'Ors in Europe

Deliberately foolish claiming a player with 750 non penalty goals in just 812 games despite playing midfield half his career has no claim against a forward with 682 non penalty goals in 1002 games

Deliberately foolish claiming a guy with 7 World Cup semifinal and final non-penalty goals has no claim against someone with just one

Pele has stood the test of time for 60 years. E no get one angle Messi fit use against Pele