₦airaland Forum

donjazet:
This issue have been rehashed severally.
The US is a country whereby a black man there can do everything right and still be killed by a cop.


Yes, the 2nd amendment rights makes the situation more dire but the problem IS NOT BECAUSE of the 2nd amendment, it is simply a factor of the problem.
Afterall, there are other advanced countries with high civilian ownership of guns where we don't constantly see this crass violence or worse so this disproportionate violence, for instance Canada, Switzerland and most of the Nordic countries allow and have a high degree of gun ownership in their society, yet we don't constantly see the school shootings or high rate of gun violence.

Your argument is devoid of facts, stats and as is the case with most of these arguments, laden with emotion rather than rationale.

Premise 1: You say the problem is not guns but racism, using Canada as an example.

- In 2019, 25% of Police killings in US were black vs 12.5% of the population (ie a Police killing is 2x more likely to be a black man than the aevrage population spread)

- In Canada, 9.3% of Police killings were black vs 3.4% of the population (ie a Canadian Police killing is 3x more likely to be a black man than the average population spread)

https://i.imgur.com/S6cHGZF.png

Are Canada Police more racist than US Police?


Premise 2 - You say the problem is not second amendment, using Canada as an example

2019 - deaths from Police in USA - 1,004 from 363 million guns in private circulation (prevalence rate of 1 death per 363,000 guns in circulation)

2018 - deaths from Police in Canada - 57 from 13 million guns in private circulation (prevalence rate of 1 police killing per 228,000 guns in circulation)

Vast majority of deaths in both countries are from weapon incidents

Conclusion - Canada Police kill more people on average per gunholders, and more black people as a percentage of population spread

Sidenote - Canadian gun ownership is low (35%) due to stricter laws than US that require two week background check and limit the no of rounds per gun unlike USA. Also guns must be kept at home in Canada unless you are going to the shooting range, and you cannot make a stop on your way to the range.


Premise 3 - lets test the hypothesis that guns is not the problem by comparing Canada against UK

Canada - 57 Police killings per year from population of 38 million people

UK - Zero to three Police killings per year from population of 67 million people

Key difference - UK Police do not carry guns unlike Canadian Police


The above establishes 3 things that disprove your theory, using your Angel country Canada as a base for comparison:

1. Canada Police disproportionally kill more black people than US Police per population spread
2. US killings are not disproportionate to Canada per gun ownership, infact lower
3. Clearly, presence of Guns are the reason for the wide disparity between Police Killings in Canada vs Police killings in Great Britain.

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There are racists in the Police force, same as in every sector of Society. There are racists in UK and Europe Police also (but no killings thanks to lack of guns).

However, what I want to challenge is your narrative that the Police is a bastion for murderers who want to kill black people. What will make a racist who wants to kill black people think the Police force is the place to carry out such agenda? Lets examine using Human Psychology

1 - The minute you kill a black man unjustly, your Police career is over (no more opportunity to kill blacks). Obviously this is not appealing to someone whose intention is the murder of black people.

2 - Vast majority of black deaths are in Urban areas where many of your superiors will be black (whether Sergeant, Luitenant, DPO or Chief of Police). Obviously black people are well entrenched in power in the Police forces where most killings take place, so how is that an establishment where a would-be racist murderer would feel comfortable killing blacks with impunity without running into a black superior who will put brakes on his career as a racist killer.

3 - Why would you choose a profession (Police) to kill blacks where as soon as you do so, your cover will be exposed in all National media, you lose the ability to kill more, you lose your source of income, move away from your home, and have to watch your back for the rest of your life.

Do any of the above fit what would drive a would-be racist murderer to choose the Police force to carry out his agenda of killing blacks? Human Psychology does not support such rationale.



Point, blank, period - from all the statistics I have seen, US Police are even trying to keep casualties low in such a hyperweaponised society. I will not join in anarchy that does not stem from facts and rationale. I bet if you give UK Police guns, and give UK population guns, UK Police will have higher error percentage and be more trigger happy than their US counterparts, because they don't have experience of such dicey situations.

.

Euphrosyne:
Ibime, Mukina2, please send me codes for league and FA cup.

U1:
Mukina2, please send FA Cup code.

Think I finished 10th in classic and second in FA Cup standing (before knockouts).

MaziOmenuko:
Ibime, Mukina2, send me codes for league and FA cup.

You are all too late. Sorry

chic2pimp:
Damn Chadwick Boseman is dead!

Wow, RIP T'Challa. Didn't even know he had cancer.

Unlimited22:
Something as simple as improving the UI would go a long way. These emoji for instance are from before I was in primary school. Even if it means having a functional app, and taking advantage of Google AdMob.

There was an App back in the day but it only loaded front page stories. I didn't see the point of it, after all most users come to Nairaland to visit their individual sections. Only Oga Seun can tell you why he didn't develop the app route but I suspect it has to do with how much data the app would chop from users that may have reduced the usership. Believe me, 95% of Nairaland users do not care about the fancy stuff so long as it is functional and uses little data, although a DM system is long overdue

nihilistjnr:
Even the most racist racist there is likely to prefer some degree of anonymity where he can hate black people on code with little consequence.

It really isn't in anyone's interest to make the news as the white racist who killed a black man...but when you're a cop in America, every interaction with a civilian could be a life or death situation, and these shootings are the consequence of that.

Another point that has always been obvious to me since the beginning of this BLM wahala. Point well made.

Even if I'm a racist, who wants the stress of dealing with the notoriety, loss of income, facing criminal charges and losing your family life and home just for the split second satisfaction of killing a black man

The argument that any man will want to go through all this stress just to satisfy a racist urge has never made no goddamn sense to me.

When your brain is clouded by whipped up emotion, you won't think straight and see the full picture, you will just be shouting racism upandan.

BlueMann:
Somebody should please show oga Seun.

Oga Seun is counting his money, growing his userbase and running a slim one or two man operation from his house and raking millions just like instablog9ja, while Linda Ikeji that expanded anyhow is stalling and now struggling with huge overheads. Call it Naija factor. E get why. We were still here when Seun attempted to start another business called Nairalist using Nairaland to bootstrap it and it failed. Seun at some point was running revenue off AdSense but now deals directly with Advertisers which is more profitable, and hammers well during election time.

Some businesses like Nairaland or even Quora or Reddit are meant to be businesses you just expand your userbase slowly rather than too much horizontal Integration.

There is something called BCG Matrix (Boston Consulting Group) which companies use to plan their expansionary strategy. Nairaland is in Cash Cow phase (High market share, low market growth) which means you take your small percentage growth per year and keep your costs low and just keep printing money. Na Question Marks (high growth, low market share) and Rising Stars that chase aggressive expansionary strategies.

A40:
So why are mentally unhinged and fearful overreacting cops so many in the system and why is it that a disproportionate number of black people get killed by them.

Let me even unlook the fact that your 90% claim is wildly inaccurate and accept that these things occur and it's not purely a race issue.

The likes of Sandra Bland, Botham Jean, Eric Garner, George Floyd, Stephon Clark, Tanisha Anderson were they armed?

I just told you that just over 1000 people are killed by Police each year and 17% are unarmed. That means over 170 unarmed Civilians are killed each year.

You only know the handful of names that BLM taught you and twisted your mind that is a racist agenda.

What of the other 170 deaths. Is it because WLM is not campaigning for them?

Abeg leave matter please. Any black guy you name, there are three equivalent white guys who died exactly same way, just that other races have better things to do than form professional protestors all day. Just the other week, I saw one white guy killed the exact same way as Eric Garner. I'm too grown for my emotions to be whipped up by anecdotal evidence. I need stats, not names.

nihilistjnr:
You've said it all...

My thing is we cannot be running campaign based on YouTube highlights and ignoring stats that underline the reality. We cannot be burning our own communities, and raising a generation of youths to have aggressive attitudes to Police which will only lead to more trigger incidents. . . and all based on falsehood.

We cannot afford to get into a situation where we are leaving our communities unpoliced (believe it or not, Police are now reticent to Police our communities to avoid flashpoint) based on YouTube highlight specialists. Leaving our communities to be run by criminals who prey on the community like what is happening in most Mid-Western states.

Nobody will use my head or whip up my emotions if stats do not agree with it, just like nobody can do compilation of Zaha dribbles and tell me he is better than Lampard.

Let the stats speak for themselves and let the black community focus on more progressive things than this fools errand of getting whipped up every 3 months by YouTube videos. If other races start posting their videos, you will know that BLM do not have exclusivity on stüpidity. That's why I posted some black cops shooting some people here to show the stüpidity of judging Police race relations from YouTube videos. This is why I said remove 2nd amendment and all this useless shalaye will die down, and then when we see obvious violations like the George Floyd incident, everybody will agree and society will deal with the culprits.

Roland17:
Can this same excuse be made for a black man to justify an action?

Yes

What are the black cops doing shooting this guy in the back. Are they racist against the guy?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWbzzJ83OwU

Why must it be that every shooting is racism? You get gun, I get gun, fear dey catch me. I shoot first, ask questions last like Jay Z recommended.

When you view the BLM YouTube Highlights within the purview of the overall stats which show definitively that blacks are not disproportionately killed in proportion to their Police encounters, you will see that Police are also scared for their lives across the board, some are incompetent, some are of nervous disposition with all races, but mostly Police killings in a country with such preponderance of guns is super low (Just over 1000 people in a population of 300 million where gun ownership average is one gun per person).

Wetin una want make Police do again? You guys Police must be working at 95% efficiency for such low casualty in such high gun ownership country. You want to eat you cake and have it. All 300 million of una want carry gun, but you expect zero deaths from Police while carrying gun. Abeg, such utopia can never be reached. You are as as close to as good as it will get. Stats don't work like that. There must be small percentage error. If race relations in Yankee is reliant on zero Police deaths while under 2nd amendment, you will never have good race relations.

A40:
Philando Castile is a perfect example

I'm not saying they should not shoot. There will always be racist cops and bad cops that abuse their authority, however when you kill a cop you know you're bleeped for life if you ever get caught. However 99% of cops don't even get charged for shooting unarmed citizens no matter how egregious they were at their jobs, no matter the circumstances.

I don't know why Ibime is always trying to lump me in with Black lives matter megedefegede. All I suggest is an environment where even the police know that if you kill unarmed people without merit, there should be hell to pay

Philando Castille was killed by a nervous Mexican Cop who seemed like he was having an emotional meltdown.

You do realise the underlying problem in Philandos death was 2nd Amendment than racism right?

I guarantee 90% of these deaths are second amendment deaths, whether from fearful, mentally unhinged or overreacting cops which was certainly the case with Philando, to the point the cop was even crying after shooting him because he knew he had lost his nerve.

Had the cop had no (irrational) fear of Philandos gun and had no gun himself, they could both be sharing a drink as buddies today.

donjazet:
I don't really get what you're saying. No doubt the 2nd amendment rights are a big problem in America, but the millions of people around the world who support the black lives matter movement understand that far more black people are killed by poorly trained cops than their white counterparts. There is a huge disparity in incarceration rate for blacks than whites. .

No, the real stat is that 25% of people killed by Police in US are black.

Just like you have stated above "far more black people are killed than white" shows that BLM false narrative has worked.

BLM are simply an organisation whose whole narrative is based on YouTube highlights and retweets than real facts. It's like judging a footballer from YouTube dribbles then when you go to check his stats on WhoScored, you will be so disappointed.

I don't argue disingenuously so I provided full disclosure that 25% is double the black population in America, however the black population is also disproportionately represented in violent crime and likely to have more encounters with the Police which makes the 25% killings of blacks by Police an underrepresentation. For example, 34% of felons are black compared to 12.5% of the general population. So using felonies as a baseline for Police encounters, 25% Police deaths is lower than 34% felony rate.

Go to every major City in America and we have a problem with gangs and weapons. Chicago alone has 100,000 known black gangmembers that can't even travel 4 blocks from their street without running into "opps" where they will kill or be killed. Same story in St Louis, Detroit, Atlanta, New Orleans. Even in New York now, we have Chos vs Woos killing each other daily. Same in LA from Rolling 60s to Grape Street to Hoover Street crips. You do not find this preponderance of criminality in other communities so you should not be surprised that we have more encounters with Police, and more encounters between violent criminals and Police which is more likely to turn deadly.

I even argue that we are severely underPoliced because some of the problem in these black neighbourhoods using just Southside Chicago and Missouri as an example is bigger than Police and they don't want the headache. Were we to be adequately Policed in many of these neighbourhoods that have been left to their own devices, all our stats will increase whether it is incarcerations, Police encounters or even Police deaths.

Roland17:
Can we prioritize hiring police officers from their local communities? Have them serve in communities where they live?

Here are two black "local community" officers shooting someone in the back. A40 did not bring it here because BLM did not flood his Twitter with it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWbzzJ83OwU


Here is another black officer shooting an unarmed woman. Again BLM did not alert A40 to this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWP0Lv29pi8


I can show you another video of two black officers sneakily shooting another black man while arresting him although they seemingly had him under control

Your problem is 2nd amendment, forget all this long shalaye about community officers.

As long as your citizens and police both carry guns, If you hire Jay-Z as a Policeman, in any uncertain situation, he will "SHOOT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LAST"

Roland17:
So you shoot him 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 times? Even though the 1st shot left him with his head on the steering which caused the horn to go off for minutes?

So at what point do you stop shooting? I mean if it comes out he was trying to reach for a weapon!

But you would shoot him once or twice right?

Which one be "1st shot left car horn blaring for minutes" as if you don't know all 7 shots will be discharged within 2 or 3 seconds from a semi-automatic pistol. I hope you are not protecting yourself with cōck and shoot that would take 7 minutes to let off 7 shots. You think this is a case of firing one shot and wait few seconds to see if the suspect is incapacitated or not? I have never seen a Police shooting even on white suspects without multiple shells let off. Days of Clint Eastwood single shots are over.

Jacob Blake shooting was inevitable, point blank, period. Every policeman in that situation will shoot him. The only question is the number of shots and trigger speed of the gun.

Attempted murder is out the question, given it was point blank shooting to his lower back, premeditated to incapacitate, not to kill. The only query is excessive force. Mind you Blake is well known to these officers as it is a small town and has several outstanding warrants out, they were in the process of arresting him for an ongoing domestic violence called by his babymoms (while A40 is talking about kids in the car while the nigga was kpokposing their mums face right there). He just kpokposed two police officers, has previous for battery of police officers, has several domestic violence with a weapon convictions, has just been tasered twice and is walking to his car under legal orders to stop after kpokposing two police officers and you think he won't get stopped with lethal force.

Make una dey protest for these criminals. When the facts of this case are determined and the officer gets off with a light rap on the wrist, una go protest more.

A40:
It's bizarre to keep reading these excuses and put heads inside sand ignoring that there is a problem and this convenient second amendment excuse can't keep flying

It's not a convenient excuse, it's a proven fact. We live in a country with no 2nd amendment and 3 deaths by Police a year. Whether Police is racist or not no even concern us.

Someone said if race relations in America is dependent on zero Police deaths, there will always be poor race relations as long as there is 2nd amendment. I'm a man of stats, and none of the stats support BLM narrative. It is a lie that depends on 2nd amendment killings to propagate itself. Black people in the US are not disproportionately killed to others as a percentage of their encounters with Police. Supporting BLM off individual cases is like judging a footballer off YouTube highlights. None of these highlights you won't find happening to white people also at a proportional rate.

Make BLM dey whip una emotions, the more black people go dey approach every encounter with Police in an aggressive manner, the more trigger incidents there will be.

A40:
Naah mate. You're the one that is ignoring patterns. In all these killings and shootings you have not produced one example where the people that were shot were actually armed. Scuffles should not lead to people getting shot period else how are they different from China and the other countries they malign for their human rights record

You choose what data you wish to process. There are hundreds of Police shooting armed civilians per year but it is not on Twittersphere because nothing to protest about. 83% of Civilians killed by Police in US last year were armed. On the other hand, 150 Police Officers were killed in line of duty in US last year.

This is why you have Police overreaction in US compared to UK which can go a whole year with zero police deaths in line of duty. Police vs Civilian in US can be like two soldiers facing each other cos they both have right to bear arms. The 17% of unarmed civilians killed by Police in US are mostly victims of Police fearing they could reach for weapon. Mr Blake is simply a victim of a hyperweaponised society where going into your car after a scuffle with Police can be interpreted as an attempt to reach a weapon.

A40:
Back shots actually. It's possible he might lose ability to walk. He was just fortunate to not die, I don't know why you're attributing a lucky coincidence to the officer not shooting to kill this man

Just reading now that it was lower back shots and he is paralysed from the legs down. It is definitely not a shoot-to-kill as the officer was grabbing his shirt while shooting him in the lower back, so these are neutralising shots, although too many. The officer would easily kill him with one shot by raising his gun slightly higher.

This won't go past excessive use of force on any charges and that's due to the number of shots fired. If it was 2 shots, the officer will be back in work, never mind facing charges as taser was first used unsuccessfully.

thorrvik55:
7 shots, neutralizing shots? Seriously?

There is no way someone with hand on your collar will pump you 7 bullets and you won't die or even be in critical condition, unless intentionally aiming away from your vitals. I may be wrong but the probability is low. At least you must be in critical condition if not dead. At that range, one or two shots will kill if the intention was murder rather than neutralisation. Bear in mind, they had already used taser on him but the taser did not work.

A40:
Yeah right. A man with his 3 kids will enter his car and pull out a gun to shoot at several police officers. We both know he's not getting shot if he were white

The same man with his three kids who was just wrestling a Police officer on the ground. Kids kor, kids ni.

A40:
Then you didn't shoot just once you shot 7 times!!

I'm sure when you get the report, you will see it's mostly nyash and limb shots, that's why he was always in stable condition. Those are neutralising shots to stop him posing a threat, rather than kill-shots. From what I saw on the video, they were literally begging him not to enter that car and only shot him at the last moment.

A40:
Hours later didn't we see a 17 year old armed with an AR 15 that actually went and shot two people to death. I didn't see any law enforcement rain bullets on his back. He is going to get a fair trial despite literally shooting people and carrying assault rifles in full glare of the public

Why are you always comparing apples with oranges?

Was the 17 year old with Police Officers when he was busting AK?

The 17 year old was found later and probably gave himself up with hands up otherwise he would have been shot if he came out forming commando.

The law of gun is simple, don't do anything that will make a Policeman think you might reach for something. If you like kill 1,000 people, if you come out naked with hands up when olopa come for you, you will be arrested like any other citizen.

Most times if you start forming agidi and tussling during encounter with Police, or making sudden unpredictable movements, you are likely to get shot, because Policeman doesn't want to get shot himself.

A40:
These guys apply this use of excessive force both on armed and unarmed persons. This armed and second amendment excuse you dey usually use no dey sit right with my soul

What do you now think will happen to the average Joe Blow on the street when even wealthy and privileged people who are clearly unarmed experience such treatment

Which one be armed and unarmed persons? Someone asked me about a specific incident, you dey join other unrelated matters.

If as a Policeman, a civilian fights with you and you allow him to enter his car, you won't last long on the street. No be sweet and chin-chin he dey go bring for you from the car. They gave that man enough warning not to enter the car till the last second.

In the UK, a racist police officer would have tased him knowing at best he won't have a gun. . . . while in the US, a non-racist black officer would have shot him for trying that nonsense.

Difference between both scenarios is 2nd amendment.

donjazet:
You are blaming the victim for getting shot 7 times in the back, how about the police man who should be well trained in tackling a dissenting citizen? The cop could just have easily tasered him, not shooting him SEVEN times. I see it as the inflamed actions of an unprofessional cop.

You only have yourself to blame in a gun country for an action that will get you neutralised. You fight Policeman, then go to your car, they gave till the last second before he opened the car door to stand down. At that split moment he opened the car door as a Policeman, I would have shot him than take chances with my own life.

Taser is not a neutraliser where guns are at play, and often fail. We saw how in our last debate about the guy at Wendys was tasered and dragged taser from the Police. You try tasering a man reaching for gun, chances are you will be the one to die. Video below shows a Vibranium-enhanced nigga eating taser like it's nothing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U0O97wer5Q


If he did have a gun in the car and they tried the taser approach in Obainojazz video below, chances are one of them would be killed. The Police in Obainojazz video is stüpid for trying to taser someone potentially reaching for weapon and it failed. She is lucky he did not have gun.

I have said before 80% of Police matter in US is a 2nd amendment issue. This is definitely one of them.

obainojazz:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEXlf4rngDb/?igshid=pcy063edk5ad
Different outcomes

Unlimited22:
I cannot really speak about this board, but most Chelsea fans did not want Chilwell. I'm on one or two groups on WhatsApp, and if you're a Twitter regular you'll be able to confirm this.
Telles, Reguilon, Tagliafico and even Alejandro Grimaldo and Robin Gosens were all touted as superior options.

However, Lamps and Cashley seem to rate him and he's always been first choice for them. Now that he's a blue we've no choice but to hype and support him.

Goosens, Tagliafico and Telles are not better than Chilwell.

donjazet:
Ibime, raumdeuter are you guys following the current events in America? What's your say on the current shootings going on?

I don't know what's happened since but the initial incident was to be expected in a 2nd amendment country. If you fight with Police, then start going to your car under orders to stop, there can only be one outcome.

fourfourfour:
So a back four of James Silva Sarr Chilwell


Meanwhile united "are about" to sign Messi their long wait for a signing about to end with a banger

No. Zouma is our best defender. Sarr on bench to cover CB and LB, also as insurance against Silva's ageing legs. I still have doubt if a 36 year old can keep up on a weekly basis.

macjireh:
if pep could win all 4trophys in England after buying almost a completely new team,,I don't see Y lampard can't at least d EPL

Pep took over a team that was already almost always competing for title.

macjireh:
Chelsea should lift d EPL next season

Not with that defence. Not yet. I need to see more

Interesting from BBC.

I believe Barca board planned to achieve a sale this summer anyway by alienating his 2 best friends, Suarez and Vidal and even telling them they can leave for free. I believe they are calculating that raising £200m from Messi and getting rid of his wage and Suarez wage would put them back on a decent financial footing. They may actually then start to see performance from Coutinho, Dembele et al.

With this transfer request, a bid of £100-£200m might actually see Messi leave.

Interesting times ahead.


A legal battle is now set to follow between the club and the player. Messi had a clause in his contract which allowed him to leave for free, if he informed the club of his desire before 10 June.

That date has now passed so Barca believe the clause has expired but Messi and his team feel it should be extended to cover the prolonged season - which ran until August due to the coronavirus pandemic.

This Malang Sarr go fit run pass Kante. He must have 5 lungs. He can swim Atlantic, no shaking.

With this kind of lung capacity, they should convert him to box2box midfielder

Unlimited22:
I have been looking for this comment. This was the first thing I thought when I saw his compilations.

Yes, he can play LB

fourfourfour:
What convinces you that Sarr is better than Rudiger and Christensen?

He can't be worse jare

thorrvik55:
No, I don't have it. Only the Carling code was sent.
Kindly send to thorrvik55@gmail.com

Thanks..

It is lj6ja5

thorrvik55:
Not yet

You should have the code. Join that one

thorrvik55:
Alright, till next season then..

Are you in the Euro Section Regulars league?