₦airaland Forum

airmark:
We had argued this before and you wouldn't still agree. It's not about scoring useless goals against Calabar rovers and became useless when you faced Manchester utd. Hazard against all the top teams that season either assisted or scored. In fact I can't forget his important winning goal against De gea, that was crucial to our winning the league. He was also the man of the match.

I know you like numbers and stats, hence your reason for bringing Sanchez and Kane close. You hate Hazard, until recently when you wanted him to go to a bigger club. So I can easily dot the i's and cross the t's.

Hazard was so good that Mourinho put him behind Ronaldo and Messi as the bests in the world. He gave us vital points especially when Costa dropped tools and we won the league.

It's a deserved one and not about padding goals against derby county but when there is a London derby they are found running away to Manchester.

Hazard win in 2014/15 is not undisputable on individual level no matter how much you try to make it seem so. It was a derivative of team success and the fact no other player had an undisputable season. Sanchez, Kane or Costa could have won it and nobody would cry murder.

Many players have had better seasons and not won PFA including Hazard in 18/19. It is not a hands down performance worthy of the hype you wish to ascribe to it.

Is this in reference to Perry Shakes-Drayton?

She is a well known and very talented 400m runner who has competed in Olympics, World Champs etc.

Injuries curtailed her career cos at one point she was destined to be one of the best in her field.

airmark:
2014/2015, Hazard was 100% the best in the league. Only haters would debate it.

Sharrap. That's one of the weakest PFA win since Ryan Giggs in 2009. They only gave it to a member of the Championship.team cos there was no undeniable performance in.EPL that year. They could also have given Costa without much debate. On individual performance, Alexis and Harry Kane could argue they deserve it.

When you talk of extraordinary performance, you talk of Henry, Ronaldo, Bale, RVP, Suarez, Salah, that's it.

Any other winner is due to team success or other factors like lack of outstanding candidate. Hazard 18/19 season was far better than his 14/15 season for example and yielded no PFA.

Kimbeast:
Aren't you under estimating Yaya toure season when talking about Suarez being undisputed?

Yaya Toure season was no different to 6 or 7 different seasons from Lampard that never yielded PFA. Suarez performance that season was world level.

The difference from Toure to Suarez that season is equivalent to the difference between KDB and Salah in 2017/18.

Both Suarez and Salah were too overwhelming for them.

Swissh:
So kimbeast was right lampard never won PFA award. What a fraud. Citadel has been taking L's since yesterday

I was surprised to read here that Lampard won PFA. Airmark even convinced the guy to change his mind

Surprised to read here that Vardy won PFA PPOTY award. Vardy never won it, Mahrez did. It could equally have gone to Kante or Vardy and not many would argue.

PFA is often a toss up between 3 or 4 players, usually from the Champions and any of them could win it.

In all my time watching English football, the only undisputed PFA winners are Henry, Ronaldo, Bale, RVP, Suarez and Salah. These are guys who won it "hands down" with World Class seasons. Every other win has been debatable. Winning PFA is not a differentiator when comparing players except for the names above.

Kimbeast:
What happens if he gets sacked? Does he just revert to being a regular player?

Good question.

And he's still playing for Belgium. The man no dey tire?

Chei. Dem done finish Kompany for Anderlecht. After 4 games with no win, they say he is trying to play Guardiola football with Okrika players.

Local man is slightly amused

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/vincent-kompany-accused-trying-copy-18972779

Greatihex:
but wait o, what does Abraham do better than Batshuayi?

I think there is interest in Batsman from Monaco way so they are leaving him out so he doesn't get injured etc. Batsman only has 2 years on contract so now is the time to sell. Some decisions are more commercial than football.

Greatihex:
you have started again.

of the three seasons you posted,
2016 - disaster season. the worst season of his career. did not even come close to ordinary chelsea player of the season

2017 - one of his best season. was in the pfa team, came second in pfa award

2018 - inconsistent season. could not even make it close to the pfa award nomination

so because he had the same number of assists in these seasons now mean that his performances for those seasons were all the same? please don't put yourself in a tight corner. e go hard to come out o.

how can you just bring assists stats and try to use it as an indicator of how a player performed in a season?

oya,
2013 - 10 assists
2014 - 8 assists
2015 - 9 assists
why did you not use the above for your claim of normal level, since you just want deceive us?

someone has been here since morning telling how number of assist does not prove the creative performance of a player and you are still using the same thing to prove a point that has already been found to be wanting.

if you want to show us hazard normal level, show us his xA in his good seasons

See your paltry figures even in good season.

If na KDB, na 16 and above in a normal season

Greatihex:
can you provide facts to back up the bold?

i don't understand you. how can 6.78 be the usual for hazard when it was produced in one of his worst seasons in chelsea? and how can 12.97 be the usual for kdb when it was produced in his best ever season in england?

What's wrong with you Hazard cultists?

How is that his worst season when it's a normal thing for him?

2016 - 4 assists
2017 - 5 assists
2018 - 4 assists

Stop talking nonsense my friend and avail us of Hazard XA for those seasons if they are fantastic.

airmark:
Sorry to ask you, what does Debruyne having more Assists than XA mean?

The image greatihex posted below, shows that Man city players weren't as wasteful as Chelsea's, which has been one of the reasons he didn't get more assists that he deserved. Even Firminho with lower XA had more assists than Hazard and more assists than his XA like De bruyne and Sterling.

According to your pic, he deserved 7 assists not 4

While DeBruyne deserved 13 assists not 16


DeBruyne is still double his deserved assist for that season which still comes back to what we told you about big chances. DeBruyne creates TWICE as many big chances as Hazard during their time in EPL due to his superior vision.

Just because a poor man deserve to be a millionaire doesn't mean he should compare himself to Bill Gates

Greatihex:
what i see is hazard having a mediocre assist number that is not up to what he is supposed to have using his xA number (in a season that was claimed to be one of his most inconsistent and poor season) and i see kdb having a good number of assist that is more what he is supposed to have, using his xA number (in a season claimed to be one of his career best).

Yet KDB still has double the XA of Hazard

Hazard 6.5XA, KDB 13 XA

Coming back to your original statement that XA is the true test of vision, we still come back to DeBruyne having much more vision than Hazard.

This also reinforces the big chance stats which showed KDB creating double the number of big chances on average


Hazard 2018 season, 4 assists, 6.5 XA
Hazard 2019 season 16 assists, 11.7 XA

Combine both seasons, and we see why assists is a good metric to judge creativity, so we can stop blaming teammates.

Greatihex:
now, if kdb had 12... xA in one of his best seasons and hazard had 11..xA in one of his best seasons, can you tell us how 11.. is very inferior to 12..? tell us how kdb is heads and shoulders above hazard in vision and creativity?

Because Hazard last season is an outlier.

Hazard usual XA is 6,6,5 etc while DeBruyne is 12 and above

Greatihex:
it was not 7 years of his prime. He came to Chelsea at age 21. Lampard was older than him before coming to Chelsea. Lamps spent 13 years at Chelsea. If hazard had stayed, he would have needed 6 more years to reach that 13 and he would be 34 years old by then.

Nobody can say for sure what would happen in 6 years time, but if he is to break the record, he would need to score 17 goals every season for 6 years to break the record. It looks possible for me.


But, we don't know if he can score until old age. We will have to see how he scores when he gets to that age to see if he would have been able to do it if he had stayed.

Lampard 13 years includes 2 years before Abramovic and 3 years as a defensive midfielder in old age, so most of his stats is attributable to an 8 year span.

Lampard put together 7 years of hitting 20 goals at least per season except 1 year when he hit 19.

Hazard never hit 20 goals once.

It's not impossible for him to score 17 goals per season till 34, but it's highly improbable given past record. 17 goals per year is a high number for him to hit consistently, talkless of in his old age, yet a low number for Lampard - same as 16 assists is high for Hazard but low for KDB

Greatihex:
OGA IBIME, this is what i am telling you about.

https://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2017/11/21/16687422/arsenal-premier-league-advanced-statistics-xg-expected-goals-league-wide


watch how sterling got 11 assists despite having same number of xA with hazard

And what do you see there?

DeBruyne XA Double that of Hazard, same as the big chances created.

Anywhere you see big chances, you should already know how XA is gonna go

Greatihex:
i don't know if where else to get the xA stats. But, from one of the links that i posted you can see that KDB's teammates have also been helping to give him awoof assists, which is the same for every player that ever tops the chart. Players like sane benefit from it a lot.
Meanwhile, some players have been done bad by their teammates, which is usually the case for players like david silva and Hazard.




BTW, you didn't answer the questions. Especially the last one

His last stat showed his XA is much higher than his assist which means teammates are missing chances he created.

You are inferring the wrong thing. You said his XA in previous season must be lower than his assist. This is false conclusion and designed to deceive.

It is either you produce such stat or desist from those deceptions.

DeBruyne big chance creation is double Hazard on average, and his XA will also be double or thereabouts.

Greatihex:
Oga ibime, do you think hazard would have broken Lampard's record if he had stayed up to the number of years Lampard stayed at Chelsea?

It took 7 years of his prime to hit 110 goals.

He would need another 102 to break Lampard record which is another 7 years roughly.

Do you think he would score at the same rate till the age of 36?

Mind you Lampard stayed 13 years, the last 3 years as a defensive midfielder, so he did most of his work in 10 years.

Greatihex:
you just helped me to make my point with the bold. This is the stats for xA for hazard last season.
Like i have always told you, assists is not the measure of a player's creativity or vision.
Were you thinking that the time hazard was having those 4 and 5 number of assists that he was having maybe 2 and 3 xA? Or that when KDB was having 16 and 18 assists that he was having upto 16 and 18 xA respectively?

The season that KDB had 16 and 18 assists, you will be surprised to find out that he did not have up to the same amount for xA. Also, all the years that hazard was having a poor assists number, he was having more xA.

Now, let us say KDB had 16 assists and 12.97 xA and Hazard had 4 assists 6.78 xA.

Mr Man, stop turning facts on their head.

Either go and bring DeBruyne XA stats for that season or quit creating false impression.

Hazard 15 assists for last season was an outlier and his XA stats proved his teammates did him favour to convert low quality chances.

DeBruyne every season has consistently high assists. His big chances stats confirm it. And his XA stats will confirm it too if you care to appraise us of those stats

Don't think we didn't go to school that you will see A and call it B. Some of us know how to draw reasonable conclusions by correlation.

Greatihex:
sorry, the bold is not xassist or xchances created.

Big chances have strong correlation with xassist

An assist is not usually expected unless the chance is of good quality

A poor chance could for example be assigned 5% of scoring, whilst a big chance could be assigned 100%. Therefore under XA you may need to create 20 poor chances to get the same XA as someone who created one big chance eg a tapin. Therefore when we see your big chance stats, we more or less know XA will follow the same pattern. In other words, KDB who creates double the number of big chances will roughly have double the XA of Hazard over the same number of games.

You are digging bigger hole for yourself here because Hazard expected assist is less than his actual assist. That is because he creates LOW QUALITY chances.

Hazard last season had 11.57 expected assists but 15 actual assists

Ryan Fraser for example had 16.18 expected assists but only 14 actual assists

KDB with his limited playing time had 7 expected assists though he only posted 2 actual assists - that means his chances were of high quality aka big chances.

If you have the XA stats for their time in EPL feel free to avail us and we will see KDB wiping floor with Hazard again.

Greatihex:
do you know that opta has made it easy for us to find out the flaw in this your argument.

There is something opta calls expected assists; that is, a chance that is most expected to become an assist. That is in essence what you like to call a quality chance. You Can go and get that stats for both players so that we can compare to see how heads and shoulder KDB is above hazard.


Again, how many times do you see hazard put in a cross across the face of goal? It is even KDB that makes more of such cross than Hazard.

When KDB used to play as a winger, his main way of creating chances used to be from the far flank across goal hoping that someone will get at the end of it.

The position a player plays also determines how many crosses he will be making from the byline. You don't expect a winger to be making crosses from the middle when he is playing from the flanks. I don't know how you don't consider that.

KDB cross ball quickly and decisively to man from the wing as you saw against Spurs

If Hazard receive ball in those KDB positions against Spurs, he will take his time to dribble, run to the line and release one useless cutback after the box is already packed with opposition players that would block off or unbalance the striker.

Sorry, OPTA has already released those expected assists stats in case you missed it

KDB - 122 EPL appearances - 69 big chances
Hazard - 245 EPL appearances - 67 big chances

Segedinho:
Do they refer them as goal scoring opportunity or not

Any shot taken is a goalscoring opportunity. They have to class it as such because depending on the talent level of the player, he may actually score even if the chance is a rubbish chance that anyone watching knows the likelihood of scoring is slim.

Did you know that Willian was nearly matching Hazard for chances created last season and is one of the top chance creators in EPL since 2018?

There is chance, and there is chance!

Someone told me Alex Iwobi is expert at flashing ball into dangerous areas without ever picking his man for a clear chance. That's the type of chance Hazard creates.

We reject any spirit of nearly nearly in Chelsea. Oh, if only the ball was a little bit in front of the striker. Oh if only 3 defenders were not unbalancing the striker when that ball came in. That's the kind of feeling I get when Hazard creates "chance".

When KDB creates chance, na only you and keeper korokoro.

Segedinho:
Are they chances created at all

Why are they call chances created??

Any shot attempted is a chance created.

Hazard is a superb creator of half chances and painful chances - the one wey ball go reach you, you go dey scramble with defenders to take shot

KDB in about 3 full seasons has created more big chances than Hazard did in 7 seasons

Segedinho:
Assists depends on the finisher whereas chances created doesn't

My point is,a player isn't rated due to assists but chances created and hazard is heads nd shoulder above KDB....

Nonsense.

Hazard chance be like ball wey he just flash for box after he dribble reach line. Striker go dey tussle with 3 men to take one unbalanced shot.

KDB chance na clear chance, just you and keeper.

That's why una dey shout Hazard chance created, Hazard chance created when he was dropping 5 league assist in 2016/17. Fabregas meanwhile was putting Costa clean through on keeper to be taking all the assists.

No be the same Costa they both played with?

Lord, if you give me chance in this life, let it be painless like KDB and Fabregas chance, not the one I will still be battling with opposition like Hazard chance.

DeadPresidents:
I swear the thing do me like feem trick. The ninja no even do, "ready, steady, go". One time.

Kevin de Bruyne doesn't cross. He unleashes heat-seeking projectiles.

Every pass has your name on it, unlike those who just dribble to line, flash imprecise ball in box and call it chance created.

DeadPresidents:
The assist De Bruyne gave Sterling for City's first goal against Spurs was a prime example of vision.

That pass was so swift, disruptive and pin-point accurate, the Spurs backline were stunned with disbelief at how he pulled that off.

You get am

Greatihex:
low number? Okay






each time you use this word vision in relation to football, i begin to wonder what you mean by vision.

can you define vision in football and tell you the stat that can be used to determine how visionary a player is?

You're the one who confuse vision and dribbling. They are not the same thing.

Vision is what we call sharp sharp hotel - pass and cross delivered quickly and accurately before the opposition know what hit them

Greatihex:
so, you agree with raumdeuter that hazard topped the assist chart last season because kdb was injured?

Yes, I'm not stupid. They are not mates in vision or assist work

That 15 assists which is a pinnacle for Hazard is a low number for DeBruyne if fit.

It's like Iniesta somehow managed to score 15 goals one season, and you start asking me if an injured Lampard would be able to make that number if he was fully fit.

Answer - Hell Mothafucking Yeah!

Greatihex:
you are always arguing outside the argument.

In 2015/2016, KDB had less than 15 assists, what makes you think that if he was fit last season, he wouldn't have had the same number with that of 2015/2016?

In 2015/16 season, KDB missed just over 2 months with injury.

Your 15 assists is child's play to him

Greatihex:
what do you mean by a full season?

A full season like I said.

@chic2pimp, did you make London diamond league. I went Birmingham one today. Not too many stars but Yohann Blake, Omar McLeod, Degrass, KJT, Thiam were there. I had to rush off before women's final though as I wanted to escape traffic and also get home for Chelsea 2nd half. I understand Schippers, Fraser-Pryce and co ran in that one.

Trippier to Morata, sharp sharp hotel

Leicester want kill us

Please Lampard should always play all 3 of Jorginho, Kante and Kovacic going forward.

Mount in that midfield just weak us