HellVictorinho:


Actually,we have not agreed towards anything.
Stop deceiving yourself.

HellVictorinho:

Stop the baseless comparisons.
Why compare religion to Physics?

HellVictorinho:

In other words, the conversation is only meaningful when we agree.
Furk your philosophy!!!!!!

Very well then. This will be my last answer to you. I cannot guarantee that I will ever respond to any comment that you make in my direction again after this.

First, I did not even suggest that we either have agreed on anything or that we needed to in order to have a meaningful conversation. You are quite mistaken about both thoughts. A meaningful conversation is only one where reasonable discourse is had. I have not had such a thing with you. You don't demonstrate much thoughtfulness in your responses.

Second, I did not compare religion to physics. I don't hold any brief for religion. I am a Christian. I only demonstrated the error in your thinking. If all that is required for competence in a particular area of knowledge is ability to understand the language in which that knowledge is conveyed, then of course your point is valid. If it isn't, then it isn't. That is all.

Cheers.

HellVictorinho:

I understand English.
So, I can determine that the Bible's contents don't add up.

Hey there.

We have not yet had even one productive engagement up to this point. You don't often put in the effort for a meaningful conversation. Do you really think that there is any great prospect of gain in a new conversation with me?

Anyway, my answer is this: unless you're a physicist, I doubt that you would understand much in that subject even though it is written and taught in English in many books and universities.

Access to a language in which a certain kind of knowledge is conveyed is not guaranteed to be access to that knowledge itself.

Myer:


The uncertainties stem from how you cant be certain about the Bible's stand on most issues.

Trinity.
Is God one God or Three Gods in One?
If God is one God, then Jesus can only be the Son of God and not God himself. Likewise the Holyspirit is God's active force and not God himself

Which is the Most important?
Faith, Love, Hope, Works or Patience?
While 1 Cor 13 tells us Love is the most important.
Tells us Faith is.
Revelations 2/3 tells us it is our works God would judge.

Tithing was part of the Laws. If the new covenant we are no longer under Law, just as circumcision and sacrifices are no longer required, tithes are no longer a requirement. Only cheerful giving as one desires is encouraged.

Speaking in tongues is supposed to be the primary evidence of baptism of the Holyspirit. Does that mean a Christian who doesn't speak in tongues does not have the Holyspirit?

The doctrine of eternal salvation.
John 3:16 speaks of eternal life in Christ.
Yet Revelations speaks of the fact that those who continue in sin would end up in hell fire.

Grace Vs Law
Does being under Grace abolish the Law? Should a Christian still be bound by Laws?

Faith Vs Works
Does Faith alone guarantee heaven or Faith without works is dead?

I'm not sure that I understand why you claim that one can't be certain of the Bible's stand on any issue.

To be clear, I see your examples and I understand that they are part of your argument. But as you yourself said, they are only a sampling of issues that you believe that the Bible is inconsistent or at least unclear about.

My concern then is to address the root rather than the symptoms. If I explained each of these things as I read them in the Bible, it will not solve the problem. The problem is that you are convinced that the Bible's position on things such as the examples you have provided cannot be known.

Therefore, my question is why do you have this conviction? Why is it not possible rather that it is just not easy to understand the Bible's position on any of these things?

Myer:
Just when you think you understand anything about the Bible, you'll find another verse that proves otherwise. Below are some examples;

1.God is one and there's no one else beside him.

2. There are 3 that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the word and the Spirit and all three are one

3. Faith is the most important thing.

4. Works are the most important.

5. Love is the most important.

6. Tithing is for Jews. For a Christian, giving is as he cheerfully wills.

7. Jesus is God.

8. Every Christian should speak in tongues.

9. Once saved is forever saved.

10. Grace abolishes the Law.

11. Grace is without works/Grace is with works.

12. There is sin in heaven.

Hello.

It would be easier to deal with your post if you made your complaint a little clearer.

I get that the 12 items that you listed out are supposed to be examples of inconsistencies in the Bible. It's not clear how they are though.

What are the Bible verses that give you reason to believe that these are inconsistencies?

LordReed:
1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.

Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.

I could add more to this as time goes on but I'd be happy to hear your view.

Hello LordReed.

In so far as "belief" refers to a mental assent, that is, to a mental acknowledgment of something as true, I completely agree with you. Even the Bible holds a similar position as the passage in James 2:19-20 demonstrates.

Faith, however, that is, biblical faith is not mere belief. It is the choice to submit to God's Authority by listening to and obeying Jesus Christ that counts as biblical faith.

So, while it makes no difference to our eternal status or even our visible behavior whether we believe that God exists or not, it makes a world of difference whether we are willing to submit to His Authority expressed in Jesus Christ.

People who believe in Jesus Christ, that is, who choose to trust His leadership and follow Him and who do so consistently and faithfully will both have eternal life and also experience real, permanent change in their behavior in this world.

The primary difference between the moral behavior of an unbeliever and a believer is first of all an invisible one in the heart. You might even call it a difference of philosophy. That is, the believer and the unbeliever may do the same things for different reasons.

A secondary difference is that even the "moralistic" unbeliever is going to find that his behavior is at the very least subtly different from that of the believer who is serious about following Christ. So, some of the same things that they would be doing would look quite different when they are examined closely.

In short, I agree that a mental assent is meaningless but I also believe that biblical faith is not mental assent, and it is everything.

Casemiro:
just wondering.


When does the soul links up?


is it before birth?

is it the moment of conception when the sperm fertilizes the egg?

is it when the child is born?


Thanks

Hi there.

This is what the Bible says (I'm answering for the Christian worldview):

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV)

The Bible then does not hold that we have a soul. It teaches instead that when a spirit is put into an earthly body, the resulting "thing" is a soul. This is why living but unresurrected human beings (see quotes above) and animals (Job 12:10 KJV, for example) are called souls.

If your question then is "when does God put a spirit into a body?" the answer is "after He has finished forming the body.

As we can see from Genesis 2:7 quoted above, the Lord God put a spirit into the body of the man He created only after He had given the body its form. The same thing happens with babies. After the body has been formed, at birth, the Lord God creates a spirit and puts it into the fully formed body.

This does not mean that abortion is in any sense okay. It may not be a human person who is killed when a fetus is aborted, but it is most certainly the vessel that would have belonged to a human person that was destroyed, and that pretty much amounts to the same thing.

Cheers.

BUSHYANUS:

Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”


This is like saying

...As he was calling on the President and saying, " Mr. Buhari, have mercy on me."

What do you think?

Hello.

Given that our spirits return to the Lord to answer to Him (Ecclesiastes 12:7), yes, this prayer of Stephen's means that he believed that Jesus is God.

However, there is far more concrete evidence of the Deity of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:6 — Heb 1:12 (KJV)

The above is just one of the many pieces of evidence.

cosiocan:
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith,
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee.
Psa 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:

Hello sir.

Well, I would hope that you are right since it seems to me that that is exactly what the Bible says.

Given the trend of the thread though, I suspect that you are trying to argue that because Jesus calls the Father His God, He Himself is not God Himself.

Interestingly, the first verse you quoted in your post readily shows that this is not true.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 (KJV)

The speaker is obviously God the Father. And it is He who calls the Son God.

So, why do you post that and go on to take a position that appears to contradict it?

If the Bible says...

1. that God is One (Deuteronomy 6:4, for example);

2. that Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8, for example);

3. that the Father is God (Hebrews 1:9, for example);

4. that the Holy Spirit is God (Hebrews 3:7-11, for example);

why then do you not conclude that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one God even if They are three separate Individuals?

That is the doctrine called the Trinity.

The doctrine is not that there is more than one God. It is that there are three Persons Who are all God without being three gods.

We can believe that or we can pretend that it is not true. But we can't actually make it true or false. It is only true if the Bible says that it is and false if the Bible says that it is.

Truvel:
So D Prophets & Apostles We Av Now, Who Are?

I already said that anyone who claims to be a prophet or apostle today is lying unless by "apostle" they mean "missionary," in which case they may be telling the truth.

I also said that anyone who calls anyone a prophet or apostle today outside of those who are so named in the Bible or who wrote the Bible is also lying.

So, your prophets and apostles are false ones.

It is unlikely that I will respond to you again since I have had to repeat myself too many times already. You don't have to believe what I say. Believe what you like and do as you please. It is the Lord to Whom you will answer, not me. So you shouldn't waste yours or my time arguing about this if you don't have anything in the Bible on which to base your beliefs.

Truvel:
Lol, So U Mean Dis Offices & Gifts No Longer Exist Or Are No Longer Fuctioning? I See... It's Obvious Dat U Are A J.W Member.

I certainly hope that that is what I mean since that is what I am saying. I would only make the clarification that insofar as the Bible still functions, these offices do function. Outside of the Bible, they don't.

For clarity, I'll say for, what, the third/fourth/fifth time now (hard to keep track) that there are no Apostles or Prophets today. The Bible is complete, so these men and women have done their work in the Church already.

Pastor-teachers and evangelists, on the other hand, are still active in the Church. They are the ones who use the Bible that the Apostles and Prophets produced to teach the Gospel to unbelievers and explain the full teaching of said Gospel to fellow believers so that all believers can grow to spiritual maturity.

That is just to make sure that everything is clear.

As for being a JW, feel free to say anything you like. It's really not my business what you choose to believe. But for what it is worth, I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. I'm a believer in Jesus Christ, God Who became a Man and died on the Cross for our sins. I'm pretty sure that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe that. You have one on your thread to confirm that if you like.

If you are curious about my church, I don't go to any typical one. I was born and raised in the Methodist Church. And I have studied under most of the men that you named. In addition to them, I have also read and otherwise listened to their own mentors (especially the very popular Kenneth Hagin and Smith Wigglesworth). But all of that is in my past now. I no longer follow the foolishness of these men.

Rather I learned the Bible finally from Dr. Robert Luginbill, a tenured professor of classics at the University of Louisville, Kentucky. His ministry is at https://ichthys.com. He still mentors me as I prepare for my own pastor-teaching ministry. Feel free to look him or his ministry up.

Again, I freely admit that it is not my business what you want to believe. That is between you and the Lord. I'm just saying what I'm saying because it is my job to say it.

Truvel:
Dis Is What I Mean Below. Read D Bible Passages.

Truvel:
Which Passage Of The Bible Dat Says There Are No Prophets & Apostles Anymore?

44 Then it came to pass the seventh time, that he said, “There is a cloud, as small as a man’s hand, rising out of the sea!” So he said, “Go up, say to Ahab, ‘Prepare your chariot, and go down before the rain stops you.’ ”
1 Kings 18:44 (NKJV)

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers...
Ephesians 4:11 (NKJV)

I'm not sure what you are pointing out in the passage in 1 Kings. The passage in Ephesians 4 describes the major offices or gifts in the Church. Those gifts are the ones directly concerned with the truth of the Bible, either producing it through writing the Scriptures or declaring it orally before the Scriptures were completed or else using the written truth to teach, admonish, and otherwise build up fellow believers.

As I said in my first post (not sure you bothered to read it, given your question), the work of the Apostles and prophets was done once the Bible was completed. Therefore, the gifts are no longer being given in the Church.

One critical passage that demonstrates this is 1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
1Co 13:8 — 1Co 13:10 (NKJV)

Once the Bible was completed, that is, once the "perfect" had come, all the gifts that operated as a stopgap were removed so that the Church would give her full attention to the now-completed Bible.

This is why Hebrews 1:1-2 says what it says

​1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds...
Heb 1:1 — Heb 1:2 (NKJV)

God no longer speaks through prophets except insofar as the prophets are those whom we read in the Bible. As you must know, the Lord Jesus Himself said that the Bible is all about Him, so when we read it, it is Himself that we hear. It is His very thoughts, His very reasoning that we read.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 5:39 (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 (KJV)

The Bible teaches this. But it certainly will be hidden to those who do not want to see the truth.

Truvel:
4 D Fact Dat D Doctrine Of Ur Church Don't Believe Or Accept It, It Doesn't Change D Change D Truth. Prophets & Apostles Still Exist & Function In Church.

Doctrine of my church? I just showed you what I read in the Bible. What part of it has anything to do with the doctrine of "my church," whatever you think that that means?

Nonetheless, I didn't expect any of my answers to persuade you of the truth. They were written in case you might be open to the truth and for the sake of others. So, we don't have to discuss this. Feel free to believe whatever you please.

Cheers.

Truvel:
There Are Still Prophets & Apostles.

Well, either the Bible is false and you are speaking the truth or you are the liar and the Bible is true. You can certainly believe whatever you want. I stand with the Bible myself.

Truvel:
We Can Tell Dat Anyone Is Or Isn't A True By Their Fruit & By D Help Of D Holyspirit.

Quite true. Our Lord did say the following after all:

15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Matthew 7:15-18 (NIV)

43 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.
Luke 6:43-45 (NIV)

That is, the fruit of the lips is what we ought to be looking out for. Those who don't have the truth of the Bible inside their hearts cannot produce that truth in their words. Those who do have that truth in their hearts cannot avoid producing it.

It is not wrong to expect that the fruit should also be good behavior a la Galatians 5:22-23, but even false apostles/prophets/pastor-teachers can have very good behavior while being enemies of the truth.

18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Colossians 2:18 (NIV)

23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
Colossians 2:23 (NIV)

14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (NIV)

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
Matthew 23:27-28 (NIV)

So, the fruit we should be very careful of seeking out is consonance between the teachings of those who claim to be God's servants and the Bible, not just good behavior.

Sometimes too, some people think that the fruit is miracles. But we should also be careful of that. The Bible warns us of lying signs and wonders (that is, miracles that deceive us into turning away from God: see Deuteronomy 131-:5). Satan is very capable of putting up "genuine" miracles. It will not be easy to tell the difference between his miracles and the Lord's especially if we are not properly educated in the truth of the Bible. And the Lord Jesus did say the following too:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)

So, again, wisdom is to test what anyone claims or teaches against what the Bible says. I would say that if anyone calls himself or herself or someone else an apostle or prophet, that is already proof that they are false. The Bible is clear that there are no more apostles or prophets in the Church.

Truvel:
Who Is An Apostle? Dis Leadership Gift Has Been Greatly Misunderstood & Abused By Many. Some Just Take Up Dis Title Because They Want To Feel Important Or Be Seen As A Big M.O.G. However, An Apostolic Ministry Goes Beyound Dat. Who Is An Apostle? An Apostle Is Someone Sent By God To Carry Out A Special Task. A Genuine Apostle Would Av Other Ministry Gifts Too. They Represent D Thumb Finger, D Strongest Finger Of D Five Fingers. And May Function In Ministry Gifts, If Not All. Many Of These Apostles Are G.O Of Churches. Examples Of These Apostles Are: Pastor E.A Adeboye, Pastor Chris, Bishop Oyedepo, Dr. D.K Olukoya, Apostle Suleiman, Pst, David Ebiyeomie & Others. T.B.C.

Truvel:
These Doesn't Mean Dat It's Only D G.Os Dat Are Apostles. There Are Some M.O.G Who Are Apostles But Are Not G.Os.
A Genuine Apostles Av Power Gifts. Either D Gift Of Miracles Or An Amazing Gift Healing. Some Are Gifted In Deliverance. T.B.C.

Hi there.

You're quite right that an apostle is anyone whom the Lord sends out for a special task.

However, the Bible is abundantly clear about what the special task is and who the only apostles that are in the Church are.

For the first, the task was to found the Church. That is, according to the Bible, the apostles are the foundation of the Church.

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone...
Eph 2:19 — Eph 2:20 (NKJV)

10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
1 Corinthians 3:10 (NKJV)

14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:14 (NKJV)

It is true that there are individuals outside of the 12 apostles who were also called apostles, but the word "apostle" is only a technical term in the Bible. Otherwise, it was a common word used by Greek speakers at the time. It meant "sent-out one," perhaps like an ambassador. It was therefore a fitting appellate for missionaries sent out by churches at the time.

In short then, there are only 12 Apostles. The other apostles in the Bible were really only missionaries or ambassadors sent out by churches. These secondary apostles were often companions of and great helps to those who belonged to the College of the Twelve. But they weren't of the Twelve. This is just like the Thirty Mighty Men of David who were great commanders in the Israelite Army but simply were not of the Three.

As was just said, the Twelve were the foundation of the Church. What this means is that they not only went out to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ on a direct commission from the Lord Jesus Christ, but they also were responsible to produce and guide the production of the complete counsel of God, that is, it was their responsibility to either write or guide the writing of the New Testament.

That is, the Truth that these twelve men witnessed to with their firsthand testimonies about Jesus Christ and with the special miracles that God did through them is what the Church is founded upon.

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)

Everyone who believes in Jesus Christ does so on the strength of the writings of these men and their close associates. Just as today, all believers can only grow spiritually under the gentle authority of gifted and prepared pastor-teachers, back then, all believers relied on the gentle authority of these men as well. So we can be sure that such works as the letters of James and Jude were written because of the close association of the writers with the Apostles too.

There is nobody today with such authority. No one is writing anything new. All correct and authoritative teachings of the Bible are derived from the Bible itself. Nothing is being written in addition to it.

Furthermore, the Church has had its foundation laid. There is no more foundation being laid. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is complete in the Bible. That is what we all believe in order to be saved.

So, the claim to apostleship by anybody at all today, whether on their own behalf or on behalf of others, is incredibly false. There are no true Apostles or even Prophets today. Their work is already done in the completion of the New Testament.

Interestingly, these claims to apostleship are not new. There were rival "apostles" to Paul who called themselves "super apostles" (2 Corinthians 11:5; 12:11) There were also other people masquerading as false apostles shortly after the last apostle John died (Revelation 2:2).

This is not at all strange. Satan claims to be God Himself. His whole agenda is to get everyone to worship him as if he is the true God. So, of course, his ministers masquerade as ministers of light (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). Not even pastor-teachers are spared. Just as there have always been false apostles and false prophets, there are also false pastor-teachers.

How can we tell that anyone is or isn't a true this or that? We have the Bible. We should read it. It makes clear what the difference is.

cooltola:


Thank you so much, you have written what I am about to say. I also wanted to share the intend of how one gives the money, resources, time , talents and so many gifts that God has blessed each members of the body of Christ. For example If my profession is accountancy, I know I can offer such service of bookkeeping to the church cheerfully , then I will do a church without expecting any pay , compensations, gifts, praise . I do this with a cheerful heart with thanksgiving to God. But I offer such service to a local church reluctantly under pressure , then my intentions are not pure.
2 Corinthians 9: 7-8
7Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

My pleasure here.

I certainly am thrilled and encouraged to see such an attitude. Be pleased to continue that way. Our Lord Himself promised that even a cup of cold water given to someone because that person is one of his will not go without a reward from Him.

Of course, this is why spiritual growth (discussed in the link shared in my previous response) is so important. When we grow spiritually and understand who God is and what His plan for us is, then we can better deploy the many resources He has gifted us with to properly bless our fellow believers and willing unbelievers too.

Cheers.

cooltola:

100 percent i agree with you. I The earth belongs to God! Everything in all the world is his Psalm 24. I am writing this article to encourage one to giving your best to God whether with your time , your resources , talents or money. Money and other form of weath are touchy subject nowadays and it is very important why the truth about money must be preached. Many hold on to money too tightly and fail to realise that God is beyond our money and he actually owe everything including wealth, we are just steward of what God already owes. But since we live here on earth, bills are part of life for the church.
money matters because Christ preached about money when he showed a coin of Ceasar.

You are certainly right that the earth with everything in it is the Lord's. Money does matter too, and that is a good application of the teaching about giving to Caesar what is his and to God what is His too.

However, I would not say that there is something wrong with money being a touchy subject today. It has always been. The Pharisees loved money and actually judged righteousness by it. That was why the Lord warned them about serving God and Money.

It is often the mark of the false teacher/prophet/apostle that he/she loves money. This is instantly seen in the antics of many of the popular "men of God" here in Nigeria and around the world.

The very teaching of tithing and the one of "seed of faith" were developed out of a love of money. These are not biblical teachings.

Those who are upset at the opulence of these popular men and women are right to be. Those who get angry about the opulence of cathedrals and large financial projects that are carried out at the expense of those who ought to be receiving tutelage in biblical truth are also right to do so.

Of course, you are right that even a gathering of true believers who are zealous for spiritual growth and production (see the link) often requires monetary expense. If they meet in a building, they may need to maintain ownership of or access to it. If any of them falls into material need, then the others will need to support them. They will definitely have a pastor-teacher. He may need their support too.

But this is different from the business of giving just because. Watching over God's flock is not an opportunity to become rich. The Gospel is not a money-spinning scheme for those who believe. So, centering Bible-teaching around material prosperity should make any listener and any teacher very nervous indeed.

Money is part of life in this world. That is why we are commanded to work for a living (pastor-teacher and other members of God's flock both). It is not why we should burden one another with meaningless financial responsibility in the church.

reccy:



Can you back your claims with fact


You are coming out clear here....
You are not here and there.



When you make an assertion, then you need to back it up.

I'm afraid you have to be a bit more specific. What do you find unclear in my comment? And what do you need backing up for?

cooltola:
I have heard many people saying that money is the root of the evil which is not true. The love of money is the root of money , not money. Money is very essential in the church. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs 1 Timothy 6:10 . The Church is the body of Christ and the church have bills to pay. Bills are part of life whether one like or not as long as we lives . Most church activities involves some funds and resources. Resources such as people skills and so on.
Now when you visit a church building or you gather together in a church, you spend money on transport, money on food, moner b

Hi there.

It doesn't appear like you finished what you meant to type. But it seems clear where you're headed. If I'm preempting you, forgive me. Please adjust your appreciation of my response to fit what you have in mind.

Suffice to say that you are right. Money in itself is not evil. It is the love of money that leads us into different kinds of evil. It is good and right to say so. It is biblical truth.

However, there is a reason that the Bible weighs in rather heavily against the love of money right up to the point of naming Money as a rival god to the Lord God (Matthew 6:24).

That reason is that this world runs on money. This is true whether one is a believer or an unbeliever. We all have to pay bills and fulfill responsibilities using money. That often leads many of us into an inordinate attraction to money.

That is what the Bible warns against. Having money to pay our bills is good, but trusting the Lord to provide for us is better. It is He, after all, who gives us the power to create wealth.

So, wisdom would be to not try to launder the image of money. We should be very careful of it instead. When we have need, the wise attitude to take is to pray rather than to worry at the contents of our treasure boxes and purses and whatnot.

To show how sufficient and able our God is, He provided many times for His people without involving the use of money. The Israelites had quail and manna. Their clothes and sandals stayed durable throughout their 45-year march too. Elijah was fed by angels and ravens. A prophet's widow was provided for with oil that flowed miraculously to allow her to sell enough to pay off her debts and live on the rest of it with her sons.

Again and again, the Lord shows us in the Bible that He is not bound by the economic systems of this world. It is to teach us not to be bound by them either. Whether we have a lot of money or even none of it should make no difference to us.

This does not mean that we shouldn't work for a living. We must. The Bible commands us to. And we would also be remiss to be financially irresponsible or economically foolish. Money is one of the resources provided by the Lord for our work here on earth for Him.

What we ought to be careful of is making money an end in itself (an extremely easy thing to do too). When we don't have it, whether through no fault of our own or through our own failure, we are commanded not to worry but rather to trust in the Lord's ability to provide for us. Failing to do this is a sin.

iyambz:
(Eph 5:18 kjv) “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” The will of the Lord is for you not to drink. It’s a commandment. Drinking is Bad.

51 verses from the old testament to the new testament

1. (Isa 5:22 kjv) The Bible is against drinking.
2. (Prov 20:1 kjv) You’re stupid if you drink.
3. (Hab 2:15 kjv) Woe to him that give his neighbour drink.
4. (Prov 23:29-30 kjv) Strong drink produces woes, sorrows.
5. (Lam 4:21 kjv) It leads to sin.
6. (Luke 21:34 kjv) It keeps you from God.
7. (Gen 9:20-27 kjv) Drink messed Noah up, and wicked sin was committed after which brought a curse to the seed of Ham (Ham is African).
8. (Gen 19:32-38 kjv) Lot’s incest because of drink.
9. (Lev 10:8-11 kjv) No drink for the Levi’s.
10. (Num 6:3 kjv) Separating from wine and strong drink.
11. (Deut 21:20 kjv) Drinking is one of the attributes of stubbornness and rebellion.
12. (Judges 13:4 kjv) Don’t drink wine nor strong drink.
13. (1 Kings 16: 8-10 kjv) What drinking did to Elah, king of Israel that it led to his death.
14. (1 Kings 20:13-21 kjv) What drinking did to kings.
15. (Esther 1:5-22 kjv) What drinking did to a king.
16. (Prov 21:17; 23:21 kjv) Drunkenness leads to poverty. Don’t look at drinks.
17. (Prov 23:31 kjv) Don’t look at drinks.
18. (Prov 23:32 kjv) Drink bites like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
19. (Prov 23:33 kjv) It fills the mind with impure and perverse thoughts.
20. (Prov 23:24 kjv) It brings on danger, accidents.
21. (Prov 23:35 kjv) Insensibility follows drinking.
22. (Prov 31:4-5 kjv) Officials are not supposed to drink.
23. (Ecc 2:3 kjv) King Solomon tried strong drink but at the end, he admits that it was vanity (Ecc 2:11; 12:8 kjv).
24. ((Ecc 10:17 kjv) A nation is blessed whose leader eat for strength and refrain from drunkenness.
25. (Isa 5:11-12,22; 22:13; 28:1 kjv).
26. (Isa 28:7 kjv) Prophets and priests became incapable of spiritual leading because of their drunkenness.
27. (Isa 56:12 kjv) Drinking accomplishes foolish optimism. You can’t drink your sorrow away. Put your sins under the blood of Jesus Christ.
28. (Jer 35:5-8,14,19 kjv) Total abstinence to contain God’s blessings.
29. (Dan 1:5,8,16; 10:3 kjv) Daniel refusing to drink of the king’s wine was specially blessed by the Lord.
30. (Dan 5:1-2 kjv) Tragic example of a king who drank wine and let other people to do it.
31. (Dan 5:3 kjv) Drinking leads to profane sacred things.
32. (Dan 3:25,28 kjv) Moral degradation. Drinking is a symptom and ultimately punished by God.
33. (Hos 4:10-11 kjv) Strong drink and immorality go hand in hand.
34. (Hos 7:5 kjv) The king drinking made him sick and sorrowful.
35. (Joel 3:3 kjv) Young women were sold for a price of a drink.
36. (Amos 4:1 kjv) Oppressors of the poor call for their drink.
37. (Amos 3:3-6 kjv) Evil. Not concerned about the afflictions of the poor. They make them rich.
38. (Hab 2:5 kjv) Arrogance is inflamed by drink.
39. (Hab 2:15 kjv) Not to give drink to your neighbour.
40. (Matt 24:48-51 kjv) Drinking is not consistent with alertness.
41. (Luke 1:15 kjv) The greatness of John the Baptist was likened to his total abstinence from drink.
42. (Luke 12:45 kjv) Christ warns against drunkenness.
43. (Luke 21:34 kjv) Drinking perverts men from being prepared for judgement day.
44. (Rom 13:13 kjv) Walk honestly, not in rioting and drunkenness.
45. (Rom 14:21 kjv) Christians are admonished not to drink, otherwise it will cause a brother to stumble.
46. (1 Cor 5:11 kjv) Christians are forbidden to keep company with drunkard.
47. (1 Cor 6:10 kjv) No drunkard shall inherit the kingdom of God.
48. (1 Cor 11:21 kjv) The Lord’s supper is no time for drunkenness.
49. (Gal 5:21 kjv) No inheritance in the kingdom of God.
50. (1 Tim 3:3,8 kjv) Church leaders are not to be given to wine.
51. (Eph 5:18 kjv) Christians are commanded not to be drunk in wine, but be filled with the Spirit.

Check your heart. If that drink doesn't lighten you up, will you take it?

Hi there.

I am pretty sure that in more than a few cases here, you misunderstood the Bible's position, and in others, you misapplied them completely.

The Bible is not against drinking wine. It just warns against drunkenness.

If then anyone is likely to drink to the point of being drunk if they start drinking, then they would be wiser not to drink at all. Otherwise, it is not a sin for them to not drink at all.

Fastlinkpro:
O lord, this year help me to live a life that you desire.

Comedian will make a joke about Jesus. I will laugh
They will make joke about church I will Laugh
They will Make joke about pastors, I will laugh.
Anything they said against children of God on naira, this is the type of thread I will click the LIKE button the most.

Jesus, I know from my heart that you don't like those things but because you are merciful Lord.

Lord Jesus, I am sorry, henceforth I am leaving a new life.

No amount of temptation will make me comment negatively about you or anything done in your name because it not for me to judge.
Help me o lord to stop lying this year because liars will take part in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur and Will be tormented day and night.

Jesus help me, I cant stand to see myself in the bottomless pit, in dark. I want to be where there will be light.

Lord Jesus, behold, on this day, everything under the SUN does not worth it.

I give my life to you JESUS and forever Amen.

Hi there.

It is certainly good to turn around from a career of opposition to God to one of humble submission. I applaud it.

I would warn you though about making promises that you may be unable to fulfill.

2 Do not be rash with your mouth,
And let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.
For God is in heaven, and you on earth;
Therefore let your words be few.
4 When you make a vow to God, do not delay to pay it;
For He has no pleasure in fools.
Pay what you have vowed—
5 Better not to vow than to vow and not pay.
Ecc 5:2,4-5 (NKJV)

It is best to commit to learning the ways of the Lord and doing your best to walk in them. If you stumble -- as you inevitably will -- then you will get back up and keep striving.

As for rejoicing in things said against churches and pastors, I would warn that you determine what God likes and dislikes from what the Bible actually teaches not from what a conscience untaught or uneducated in the truth of the Bible may be comfortable or uncomfortable with.

If you wish to see the fruit of this choice to follow the Lord, allow me to encourage you to commit to spiritual growth (see the link).

Wishing you well on this journey that you have started.

Cheers.

reccy:
When I consider what humanity have been through in the hand of religion, I wish there would be a world without religion.

Think about the history of the Roman Catholic Church. Think about the murder of Vanini, of Servetus, etc.

Think about the massacre of St Bartholomew. Think about the establishment of the Holy Inquisition. Think about the conquest of Africa, the exportation of its natives to the countries of Europe. Think about the scourge, the chains, that were used to export our helpless and conquered ancestors to Europe and Asia.

Think about all these and tell me if the world wouldn't have been a better place without religion.

Think about the jihads of the sword carried out by some Islamic extremists. Think about the calamities the world have suffered in the hands of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, etc.

These are the offspring of religion, of superstition, of fundamentalism, and of fanaticism.

Think about all these and you would admit that a world without religion will be better off for the human race.

Religion bring nothing but division, acrimony, hatred, animosity, and mutual destruction.

Religion has divided the world between the saved and the damned, the believers and the unbelievers, the faithful and the infidels.

Of what use have the various religions been to the human race? Nothing, except fomenting anarchy, hatred and animosity.

The world would be a better place without RELIGION.

RELIGION is a disease that have infected the majority of human kind.

Hi there.

If there were such a thing as a serious-minded atheist, that person would never make this argument. Of course, there isn't such a thing, so it's a very popular position held by even highly educated atheists.

For what it is worth, the Christian response is that you are right. Religion is not good for human beings. But if atheism is the opposite, it is no better for human beings. If we were measuring on a scale, religion is better even if not by much.

Usually though, when this sort of argument is made, Christianity is lumped in with all sorts of other systems that do the opposite of what Christianity actually does. Whereas religions in general work on the principle of fear so that human beings are trying by them to get the gods (whoever or whatever they may be) to stay out of their business, Christianity is about reconciling sinful human beings to the God Who loves them. In other words, whereas the first is a negotiation based on fear, the second is a relationship reestablished by very sacrificial love on God's part.

This difference is critical since it is one of day and night. In fact, religion is more similar to atheism than to Christianity. But it would be contrary to reason that an atheist recognize such a thing since atheism rejects common sense knowledge and reasoning.

In short then, I would say that while you are right that religion is not good for human beings, the alternative that those who make such statements tend to have in mind is worse even judging by historical evidence. And Christianity stands apart from and above both options.

ThatWriterBoy:
Hello everyone. During the COVID lockdown, with all the conspiracy theories that flew around, I did a study of the end time Bible prophecies (something I've always been fascinated with), just so I could find out what was really going on.
My study led to the creation of a blog, where I talk about the end times and Bible prophecy.
While everyone has been looking forward to the revealing of a European Antichrist, I stumbled on Joel Richardson's work during my study, and I began to wonder about the possibilities of an Islamic Antichrist. The following is an excerpt from the series I started about this topic;

When we think of opposites, we think of things that are not the same at all. In fact, they stand in opposition to each other. For example, big and small, or white and black. They are in opposition. I believe it's the same with Islam and Judeo-Christianity (I called it that because I believe they are almost the same. You can read the last article I wrote to see the reason why I say so). One word we use in English to showcase opposition is the word anti. The word "anti" means against, or in opposition or in place of. I guess I should stop the long words and cut to the chase. When we think of opposites, we think of things that are not the same at all. In fact, they stand in opposition to each other. For example, big and small, or white and black. They are in opposition. I believe it's the same with Islam and Judeo-Christianity (I called it that because I believe they are almost the same. You can read the last article I wrote to see the reason why I say so). One word we use in English to showcase opposition is the word anti. The word "anti" means against, or in opposition or in place of. I guess I should stop the long words and cut to the chase. Allow me to state my thesis: could it be possible that the Antichrist (who has been prophecied to come in scripture) would be a Muslim and set up an Islamic Caliphate? a Muslim and set up an Islamic Caliphate?

You can click the link to read more about it https://hateekva..com/2021/02/islam-and-end-times-could-antichrist-be.html
There, I outlined in greater detail, with quotes from both the Bible, Koran and respected Imams, and comparisons between the coming Mahdi prophesied by Muslims and the future Antichrist prophesied in the Bible.

My point is this:
- I believe the future Antichrist will be Muslim.
- I don't believe it was a coincidence that there are only three monotheistic religions on earth, and two of them are similar (Judaism and Christianity), while the other is in direct opposition to the other two though they claim to worship the same God.
- I believe the church might be making a mistake in their eschatology, and it could prove costly eventually.

Can we discuss this please?

Hi there.

I disagree with your position. The chief reason for doing so is that I believe what the Bible says. I believe completely that the Bible is the truth, so I don't allow for any contradiction of its position. I also don't listen to any addition to what it says, even if the addition is thought to not contradict what it does say.

Since you are working out a theory of Eschatology using all sorts of sources outside the Bible, why am I engaging you? That would be a reasonable question to ask. The reason is that you are actually trying to explain biblical Eschatology. The Antichrist is a biblical concept, after all. So, you're on Christian turf.

My response then begins there: You are trying to explain a biblical concept using foreign philosophies and paradigms. That is patently wrong. It will simply not succeed at explaining a biblical position.

The next thing that I would point out is that Eschatology is the most advanced doctrine in the Bible. It is actually impossible to understand it without first understanding everything else that the Bible teaches. This is the biggest reason that there are all kinds of theories -- many of them completely hare-brained -- about it. Discussing Biblical Eschatology then is a very difficult thing to do. There are so many moving parts that the teacher will have to establish many fundamental principles in the heart of the listener before he can even get into the doctrine itself. In other words, this discussion that you have asked for is the kind that often goes nowhere fast.

Still, I will do what I can to describe what I believe that the Bible teaches about this. To be clear, I have complete confidence that what I will say about it is true. Not only have I been reading the Bible since childhood, not only have I read all sorts of theories and positions on biblical eschatology in my life, I have also been taught by a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher what the Bible teaches as a whole system and therefore what biblical Eschatology teaches.

This does not mean that I am not open to correction. I certainly am. But it won't be easy to change my mind about what I have learned. It would require the Bible's own authority for that to happen.

Let me start from a point of agreement. I believe that there will be an Islamic Mah'di of considerable power and authority during the Tribulation. He seems to me to be an adequate interpretation of the king of the South in Daniel 11. The South biblically includes the Middle East and Africa (North Africa, in particular). These territories are obviously Muslim and they incidentally have a "Messiah" figure who will unite them all and grant them world domination. It only follows that during the Tribulation, such a figure will arise. The Tribulation is, after all, also prophesied to be a time of demagogues. Lots of people will style themselves saviors, christs, messiahs, at least some of them even claiming to be our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. This is one reason that it is only those who have been diligent in spiritual growth will be able to identify the true Antichrist during the first half of the Tribulation. Others must wait until the middle of the Tribulation to have a chance at accurately identifying him.

This Mah'di is not the Antichrist for one obvious reason: The biblical Antichrist is not just going to be opposed to Jesus Christ, he is also going to claim to be Him in fact (although everyone that claims to be a savior/messiah/christ is really claiming to be Jesus Christ).

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:3 — 2Th 2:4 (NKJV)

Another important reason that the Mah'di will not be the Antichrist is that the Antichrist will be Jewish. His mother will be of the Tribe of Dan (although his father will be the devil as Genesis 3:15 prophesies). This is why some prophecies sound weird about Dan. The following is only one of them.

17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way,
A viper by the path,
That bites the horse’s heels
So that its rider shall fall backward.
18 I have waited for your salvation, O LORD!
Gen 49:17 — Gen 49:18 (NKJV)

Another reason related to the first and second above is that the Antichrist is going to usurp the Kingship of Israel. Do you see the Mah'di claiming to be the rightful king of Israel?

A fourth reason is that the Antichrist is the last king of the North in Daniel 11. The North is Europe including all the territories once ruled by the Roman Empire. Do you see the Mah'di ever ruling over that continent?

A fifth reason is that the Antichrist will emerge and start his global campaign for power in Mystery Babylon. Mystery Babylon will be the most powerful nation on earth during the Tribulation. It is because the Antichrist will take power there and gain control of its wealth and military power that he can also take power over Tribulational Rome and eventually subdue the whole world.

21 And in his place shall arise a vile person, to whom they will not give the honor of royalty; but he shall come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue. 22 With the force of a flood they shall be swept away from before him and be broken, and also the prince of the covenant. 23 And after the league is made with him he shall act deceitfully, for he shall come up and become strong with a small number of people. 24 He shall enter peaceably, even into the richest places of the province; and he shall do what his fathers have not done, nor his forefathers: he shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds, but only for a time.
Dan 11:21 — Dan 11:24 (NKJV)

Revelation 17, Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, and numerous other passages scattered throughout the prophets, among which notably is Jeremiah, prophesy about the Antichrist as, severally, the king of Babylon, of Tyre, and of Assyria. In Revelation 17, we see a union between the Beast and Mystery Babylon. The Beast is a biblical metaphor for both the Antichrist and Tribulational Rome.

In short, the Bible does not accommodate an Islamic Antichrist at all, although it does accommodate an Islamic demagog and pretender to Messiahship. Such a thing would fly in the face of both the Bible and the Qur'an, not that I care much for what the Qur'an says.

As you should have seen, my reasons (of which there could be more) are all from the Bible. While the interpretation may be debated, it does stand or fall on the Bible, not on any other source.

nairalander2020:
Ok let me start like this,i want to know how to be close to God and i dont knw how to go about.
to make matter worst am an addict i cant even pray properly am just tire of this worldly habbit,i just want something to help me build my self in christ i need guidance pls.

Hi there.

I'm very sorry that you are in this difficulty. It is a common enough challenge among believers. Every one of us goes through it at some point especially in this Laodicean Era of the Church. Of course, that does not make it easier or more pleasant, but it does mean that we are not alone when we experience it.

I went through a similar experience myself. I tried different formulas -- some of which have been put forward by commenters here -- and taught them too, but what actually works is quite different than those formulas. For that reason, I wrote a thread (see the link) specifically to describe the solution.

To be clear, what I wrote of is more than just a solution to that desire that many of us have to grow close to God and walk in sanctification (that is, to behave more and more in a way that pleases God). So you may find more in it than you're asking for or you may have trouble seeing how it speaks directly to your question, but I assure you that it does.

Suffice to say that in order to be close to God and to live the way that God wants us to live, we must grow spiritually. Spiritual growth biblically means to learn, believe, and apply everything that the Bible teaches. The thread goes into some detail about how this works. It is not an easy thing to do, so it is no surprise that so many believers (including myself until a few years ago) complain about the difficulty of behaving worse than they want to and not being as close to God as they want to be. But for everyone who undertakes spiritual growth, there is a great payout in the satisfaction of these desires, and that is without mentioning the enormous eternal rewards attached to that success.

So, allow me to encourage you to pursue spiritual growth. The Lord will satisfy the hunger in your heart more than you can even begin to imagine if you do so.

Cheers.

budaatum:


Humans who live by one book alone will become malnourished. Matthew 4:4

Its probably why the Bible does not waste much time on the mechanism of universe formation but on what one must do about one's enemies and neighbours. Matthew 25:40

LOL. It did not waste time on the mechanism of universe formation? Who do you think you are talking to, buda?

budaatum:


But I do know that you do not know, ihe. Simply reading what you believe shows that you do not know even though you would claim your beliefs are knowledge which they are not.

Fact is, no one knows how the universe came into being billions of years ago.

But I do know what the mechanism is, buda. Simply reading the Bible shows me what the mechanism is.

Fact is, no one knows what I know or don't know.

budaatum:


You assume what that mechanism is, Ihe. You do not actually know what it is.

You assume that I don't know what that mechanism is, buda. You do not actually know that I don't.

LordReed:


What has this got to do with the subject matter?



LMFAO!

I know that the only thing insane in the atheist's worldview is the notion that there is such a thing as objective truth, so insanity is only anything that claims to be objectively true.

Suffice to say that the very definition of the word "mechanism" has logic in it. A mechanism is only one because there is a principle by which it works.

Where there is a principle, there is intelligence.

But let us not go any further. You and I don't speak the same language, so there will be no resolution to this discussion.

LordReed:


Why? Who says mechanisms always have intelligence behind them?

Same person that said that insanity is a real thing.

LordReed:


I won't since you claimed you know enough about evolution so I am sure you know how you strawmaned it.

Do as you please, LordReed. Not my problem.

LordReed:


Ah ok so you understand it enough to strawman it, got it.

If you accuse me of committing a fallacy, you are also responsible to demonstrate how I did. But feel free not to do so. I really couldn't care less.

LordReed:


There are treatments of the facts of evolution for all levels of understanding even kindergarten so if you really want to have a proper understanding seek those out. Commenting on strawman arguments won't get you closer to understanding.

I think you mistake me. I think that I'm reasonably educated in the subject. Therefore, the ignorance that you ascribe to me is undefined to me. That is, I don't know what you think that I don't know. So, I can't really agree or disagree with you.

Still, never mind. I really don't care all that much for these discussions anymore.

LordReed:


Well maybe because you don't really know what evolution is.

You could be right. But you could also be wrong. And if you're right, I don't know it any better from your response.