3.4 Believe What You Learn. This again seems obvious, but we often underestimate the deceitfulness of the human heart. We don't often believe things even when we make mental assent to them. We tend to just nod to them so that we can move on already. We can't grow spiritually by doing that.

If we don't believe any accurate teaching that we receive from our pastor-teachers, then we will not be able to use the truths in them to do anything meaningful in our lives. For example, if your drill sergeant teaches you to clean your rifle and fire it a certain way and you never believe that, then you simply will never do it. If you don't, then you will not be combat-ready if an enemy attacks you.

Spiritual growth is growth in faith. So if we have satisfied ourselves by initially checking to see if the pastor-teacher stands in agreement with the Bible generally, we should accept his teaching as truth and act on it. If we find anything in the Bible that gives us cause to wonder about his teaching, we have a right to ask him to explain his position in light of what we read in the Bible (the disciples did that with the Lord Jesus Himself too, although He was the perfect Pastor-teacher). Alternatively, and more efficiently too, we can give him the benefit of the doubt and just keep working through the material. It may be that along the way, our confusion/doubt/concern will be resolved as we read or listen.

3.3 Diligently Listen to (or Read) What Your Pastor-teacher Says. It's no use finding a pastor-teacher if we are not going to listen to him. And there are a few reasons why we might not.

One, he "goes on and on" and never stops. The length of his teaching, whether delivered orally or in writing, often puts people off. Especially in our very fast times when everything can be had with no delay, when people work on weekends to make sure that no customer or client is disappointed if they want something right now, the notion of taking so long to finish anything is quite annoying, especially when it does not have any monetary guarantee attached to it. But the Bible is a very large and complex book -- it is the very thinking of Christ, the Word of God, after all -- so this should not be surprising. If we wish to learn the Truth, we must be ready to patiently put in the work required to learn it.

Two, something about the pastor's personality puts us off. It may be the way he speaks or writes (compare 2 Corinthians 10:10). It may be his stature or his standing in society (the apostles were mostly poor and uneducated men, for example). It may be his age (cf. Timothy in 1 Timothy 4:12). It may even be how he chooses to do his ministry, whether in writing, in person, on the Internet, on video, in his house, etc (compare Elijah and John the Baptist). If any of this puts us off of the truth, it only proves that we don't value God's Word enough to tolerate or endure anything we have to in order to get it.

Three, we have other priorities. This world runs on money. We have to feed, clothe, and house ourselves and our loved ones, at least. This responsibility can be very demanding in terms of our time and energy, but whether we think that they are more important than working to secure our Salvation and become useful to the One Who saved us with His Blood is a choice that is entirely up to us. We can structure our lives to some degree, so that the things that matter to us can be done with nothing left out. But we can also choose to structure our lives to leave things out. Often, the choice that is made is to leave out Bible teaching even though it is the most important and least expensive undertaking for us comparatively (the truth is freely taught by gifted and prepared pastor-teachers, after all: "freely you have received, freely give" -- Matthew 10:8 ).

There could be other reasons, but it is enough to say that there is no benefit if we are not going to listen to what the pastor-teacher has to teach us.

3.2 Seek Out and Submit to One Gifted and Prepared Pastor-teacher. If people have issues with the Bible itself, you can certainly expect that they will have even more with human teachers. But the Bible says,

11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Ephesians 4:11-13 (NIV)

7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.
Hebrews 13:7 (NIV)

17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
Hebrews 13:17 (NIV)

15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.” 16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.” 17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.
John 21:15-17 (NIV)

1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
1 Peter 5:1-4 (NIV)

There are at least two parts of the Bible that people tend to take hold of to claim that pastor-teachers are not necessary to spiritual growth. One is John 14:26, and the other is 1 John 2:27. It should be clear that whatever these two passages mean, they cannot contradict the passages above, since Scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35). Even so, their very context is clear that they don’t mean that pastor-teachers are not necessary.

The first passage teaches that the Holy Spirit is the one who makes us able to actually perceive and understand God's Word. This is what Paul elaborates on in 1 Corinthians 2:12. Even with the aid of a pastor-teacher, we cannot understand Bible truths unless we have the Holy Spirit inside us. The other thing that this verse in John 14 teaches is that the apostles and other disciples at the time were going to be inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the New Testament after Jesus left.

The second passage teaches that once we have heard and believed the Gospel, we no longer need anyone to teach us the Gospel. We already know it and the Spirit of God Who came to live inside of us because of our faith in Jesus is Himself proof that we believed the correct thing. John said this because of the antichrists that were teaching at that time that Jesus did not really become human. That was the major theme of that letter.

Now that we've got that out of the way, we can see that the passages previously posted are clear that we must have pastor-teachers to interpret the raw truths of the Bible to us even though we still need the Holy Spirit to be able to understand them at all.

Gifted and prepared pastor-teachers are not common, however. 1 Corinthians 12:4 teaches this in the Greek. They are the part of the Body of Christ that "lacks," that is, that are much fewer in number than the others. This makes sense when we remember that in an army, the officers are disproportionately fewer than the rank and file. Apostles, prophets, and pastor-teachers are the officers in Christ's army. Throughout human history, prophets have always been very few. Apostles are only 12 (the Bible does call missionaries "apostles" too, but the context is clear that they are different from the Twelve that the Lord chose as the foundation of the Church). Pastor-teachers are the same.

First, few believers are given the gift of teaching. Second, very few believers who do have the gift endure the course of spiritual growth to mature spiritually. Third, even among those who do mature, the testing and preparation necessary to become full-fledged pastor-teachers tend to prove too discouraging, so that only a handful do make it into full-fledged ministry.

This does not mean that there are not enough pastor-teachers for everyone who wants the truth. There are. It just means that those who want the truth will often find that they have to patiently wait and perseveringly seek a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher to prove that their desire for the truth is real and permanent, not the fleeting kind.

18 Therefore the LORD will wait, that He may be gracious to you;
And therefore He will be exalted, that He may have mercy on you.
For the LORD is a God of justice;
Blessed are all those who wait for Him.
Isaiah 30:18 (NKJV)

20 And though the Lord gives you
The bread of adversity and the water of affliction,
Yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore,
But your eyes shall see your teachers.
Isaiah 30:20 (NKJV)

A final word on this is that although it is fashionable today to collect teachers by the numbers so that one does not trust any one teacher too much, the Scriptures actually counsel the opposite. We are warned not to "collect" teachers, but rather to find one and submit to that one to learn everything that the Bible has to teach us from him.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NKJV)

15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Therefore I urge you, imitate me.
1 Corinthians 4:15-16 (NKJV)

The Bible does say in Proverbs that there is safety in a multitude of counselors, but this is the sort of statement that the Bible does not provide as an absolute. There are conditions under which this is true. One who has matured can judge between multiple opinions or between different counsels. One who is still a spiritual babe cannot. Therefore, this is not for spiritual growth. Only when we have become spiritually mature is it even remotely safe for us to listen to more than one teacher at once. Even then, there is often no use doing so, because a teacher who helps you grow to spiritual maturity is truly enough for you. Only a gifted and reasonably prepared pastor-teacher can do that. It is pastor-teachers themselves for whom this multitude of counselors is most useful, just as a large cabinet is very useful to kings and other leaders. The pastor-teacher carrying out his research into Scriptural truths will find multiple perspectives exceptionally useful to establishing the truth of the text that he studies in the Bible.

3.0 How It Works: What We Do To Grow Spiritually
We've already mentioned above that spiritual growth is learning, believing, and applying Bible teaching. Here we are concerned with how we get to do that.

3.1 Read Your Bible. Obviously, the first thing is to read your Bible. We cannot learn what the Bible teaches if we don't know what the Bible actually says.

Although this should be an obvious lesson, there is much noise out there suggesting that the Bible is not critical to the process of spiritual growth. Notions ranging from the idea that God somehow supernaturally makes us aware of His Counsel without our needing to read the Bible to the idea that the Bible is corrupted, incomplete, or otherwise unreliable exist so that some of us do need to be reminded that the only way that we can be sure that anything is true is by the Bible's confirmation of it.

As we see from 2 Peter 2 quoted above, it is in "the word" that we grow. We can't grow in the Word if we are not reading it. The Lord Jesus Himself warns us that we can only tell whether someone is a false prophet by testing what they teach against what the Bible says (Mark 7:6-7).

33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
Matthew 12:33 (NKJV) (cf. Matthew 7:15-20)

The Bible is our protection from lies about God. If we don't know what it says, then we will be susceptible to any opinions that anyone tries to feed us. It is hard to reject something without having a reason to do so. If we reject a lie without knowing the truth, we could still be rejecting it because there is another lie that we prefer to believe. This is why we must be very familiar with what the Bible says.

2.0 The Journey: Spiritual Growth.
Spiritual growth is a bit of a buzz term in Christian circles. Everyone uses it but they tend to mean different things by it (just as so very many people use the word Christian to mean a dizzying array of things). What it means according to the Bible though is continuous development in knowledge of correct biblical teaching that we actually believe. That is, if we are learning, believing, and applying accurate teaching about the Bible, then we are growing spiritually.

2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby
1 Peter 2:2 (NKJV)

Why is this important at all? Why is the choice to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ not enough? The second question is a bit of a trick question. The choice to believe in Jesus Christ is enough, but that choice to believe in Him is also the choice to follow Him and learn His Way of thinking and doing things. That is what it means to believe in anyone. Reposing confidence in somebody means accepting their leadership or authority in whatever it is you are trusting them about. So, accepting the Gospel is actually making a commitment to learn what Jesus has to teach and live accordingly.

So why is that important? For the same reason that believing in the Gospel is important. We were created for God, but we are rebels against Him. When we believe the Gospel we are reconciled to Him so that we can finally fulfill His purpose for creating us. Going on then to learn what Jesus has to teach us equips us to be able to do what God created us for.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)

What are we going to learn when we get started on spiritual growth? We will learn all the teachings of the Bible as one whole solid unit. The major doctrines of the Bible that we will learn are organized into the following:

-- Theology (the biblical study of God)

-- Angelology (the biblical study of angels)

-- Eschatology (the biblical study of the last things or the end-time)

-- Anthropology (the biblical study of man)

-- Hamartiology (the biblical study of sin)

-- Christology (the biblical study of Christ)

-- Soteriology (the biblical study of salvation)

-- Pneumatology (the biblical study of the Holy Spirit)

-- Peripateology (the biblical study of the Christian Walk)

-- Ecclesiology (the biblical study of the Church)

-- Bibliology (the biblical study of the Bible or the Scriptures)

This is not some divinely sanctioned order or even organization, but it does make the process easier. That is what Bible teaching actually does: make the Scriptures more accessible to believers.

1.0 Introduction: The Excellence of the Gospel
You believe that Jesus Christ -- God Who put on humanity to become one of us -- died for your sins. Hallelujah! You're a Christian, a child of God entitled to a share in His Eternal Wealth. This is the most important thing in the world.

If you managed to build an empire like Alexander’s Greek wonder or acquire wealth the size of Jeff Bezos's or gain the strength of Samson or the beauty of a lily or attain the wisdom of Solomon, it would amount to exactly nothing if you are not one of God's children. Everything in this world fades or crumbles to dust eventually. Even we who work so hard to acquire those things inevitably die. So the best we can have without God's adoption of us as His children is a few short years of reckless pleasure and then death.

It is rather easy to be glib about death when anyone makes the choice to devote their earthly lives to the pursuit of sensual pleasure, but the reality of death is always remote until we are right on the brink of it. It is in that moment when we know that we will actually die that the reality of the meaninglessness of such a pursuit weighs on us like a leaden anchor.

Those who have chosen to believe in Jesus Christ have by definition dismissed the standards of this world and chosen to pursue the wealth and pleasures of the world to come. Of course, this is not always how it plays out practically. In fact, most Christians refuse to make a clean break with this world's cares and pleasures. Nor is there ever a perfect Christian who has not or will not occasionally fall prey to this world's seductions and threats (James 3:2). Regardless of this, a Christian is at core a person who has rejected this world in favor of the one that God promises.

As such, Christians are also by definition people who do not fear death. Death is for them just a transition from this world of pain to a better state of existence. So the choice to be a Christian is actually the whole point of human existence here on earth. That you made it means that you have justified your own existence on this planet. Good for you.

That choice to be a Christian, however, is only the beginning of a journey. It is because of that journey that this choice is so important. When we fail to pursue that journey, the choice to be a Christian becomes almost a mockery even if it is still an infinitely better choice than the one to remain opposed to God.

Incrizz:


GOD bless you.

Amen and thank you. God bless you too.

Theguided:


This example get as e be
. And this issue of God dying (Another contradiction) is the same as the man having a beginning issue. God = no beginning and no end and at the same time god had a birth (a beginning) and a death (an end) is a contradiction.. Nobody can die for anyone's sin and nobody can inherit anyone's sin.
And God committing suicide or getting killed by his creation to forgive his creation sins is all shades of ridiculous

Let's say you stole a sweet from my shop, all I have to do if I want to forgive you after pleading is just forgive you. Imagine I tell you "I'll forgive you on one condition, kill my innocent son that is sleeping at home and we are even". That's way worse than the crime you even committed. All I have to do is just forgive you. No killing or anything has to happen.

As I said to your cohort jman24, it's not my job to dictate what you believe or don't believe. That's your right as an autonomous human being. If you believe that something is ridiculous, then dismiss it and pay it no further mind. If you think that it makes all the sense in the world, then believe it and live by it. My opinion does not need to count.

Theguided:



The definition of God is eternal, i.e no beginning and no end. A man that has a date of birth has a beginning. God becoming a man is a contradiction. It's like a bachelor getting married and still being called a bachelor. The very definition of a bachelor is an unmarried man. Saying a bachelor got married made him no longer a bachelor. The same way saying God became a man no longer makes the man God.. The only true GOD is the Creator of heaven and earth. The creator of all the creation. The creator that sent all the prophets to tell us about him and they did just that and man turned Jesus (peace be upon him) a creation of God to God when Jesus didn't say that. How long do you think it would take Jesus to just say the "I am God, worship me". He lived 30something years (according to the bible) and he missed out the most important message the Christians claim today. I don't think he was trying to be humble. He is a servant of God not God. Worship his God

Hello.

The above is like saying that the definition of a man is naked and that wearing clothes is a contradiction.

Certainly, God is self-existing. That is, He does not owe His existence to anything outside of Himself. Having a body and human spirit made for Him so that He can use it to die for human sin does not change the fact that He is self-existing.

Jman24:



My brother I'm only asking a question. Isn't it contradictory to say God who is also a spirit who is not made of any material (from creation) manifested himself (jesus) in a human nature ?
My brother check am naa .

I'm sorry, I must have missed your question. What I saw was an erroneous attribution to me and a complaint about what I believe.

As for the question that you asked above, I already said that I don't see how it is contradictory. Maybe you need to explain yourself a little better so that I can understand what the contradiction you refer to is.

stblessing:
but i thought d mark will be given wen d antichrist takes control, sometym in d middle of the seven year tribulation?

Hi there.

Your thinking is right. The mark will begin to be given after the middle of the Tribulation when the identity of the Antichrist has been revealed.

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear. 10 “If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword they will be killed.” This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people. 11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666 [ways].
Revelation 13:5-18 (NIV)

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-10 (NIV)

Comparing the two passages above leads us to the understanding that it is only after the Antichrist has established himself as God and taken control of all the nations of the earth that the mark will begin to be given.

Jman24:




So if God was not made of any material that this creation is made of , how come he took the nature of the human(made of creation) manifested in birth of Jesus? Is this not absolutely contradictory?

God is spirit ! Yes
Something is not quite right with the factor Jesus. That's my point

Please understand that I don't take responsibility for what anyone wants to or doesn't want to believe. If you cannot accept something as true, I'm fine with your choice to reject it. I'm really not invested in your choices. They're entirely your prerogative.

I see nothing contradictory in God putting on human flesh. Why that is a problem is something I really don't know. Is it impossible for a king to humble himself to peasantry for a little while? We humans manage that quite well, but somehow this is something contradictory when God does it?

I believe that God added a human nature to His divine one in order to die for us. It doesn't confuse me or leave me incredulous. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to all those who are being saved. I don't really know how I can help you if you find it contradictory.

livingchrist:
There have being many debate on what the tribulation is, and those to go through it.

Well this thread seeks to make some clarity about what the great tribulation is, and those it is meant for.
The great tribulation was spoken of by christ when he was asked by his disciples to tell them things that will be at the end of time.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

As spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ, the great tribulation is a period of severe troubles, sorrow, anguish and test.

It is called the hour of trials,

Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


To properly understand what the great tribulation is all about, we have to go back to the book of daniel.

Matthew 24:15-16 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Jesus was speaking to an audience who knew the prophecies of Daniel and that audience is the jewish disciples.
Jesus was essentially saying go and understand the prophecy of Daniel.

This is interesting as many people who talk about end time prophecies neglect the prophecy of Daniel and as a result end up with error.

What is the prophecy of daniel?
The seventy weeks

The great tribualtion is actually from the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy.

I want us to look at this verse carefully

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

First of all a fixed period of time determined to upon Daniel's people.
The question is, who are Daniel's people?
The Jews! Not the Gentile church but the jewish church wow.

livingchrist:
The Jewish church or the nation of Israel are the people of Daniel, and they are the ones that the prophecy was made for.

livingchrist:
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The seventy weeks are meant to a accomplish the following,
1. To finish trangresaion- the law could not finish the transgressions of the jewish nation but rather it multiplied it so, there must be another way apart from the law that could finish transgression.

2. To make and end of sin,- for sin to end the law itself must be fulfilled, the jews understand these things.

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity- the Jews had never being faithful in their relationship with God, they are like an estranged children from the womb.

4. To bring everlasting righteousness, this is a new type of righteousness

5. To seal vision and prophecy -All prophecies and visions concerning Israel will be fulfilled.

6. To anoint the most Holy, thsi is probqbly talking of the messiah himself.

Hello.

I think that you are solite3 and I believe we have established a difference of opinion on this matter and on a few others. For me that is not a problem (the problem that led me to seek fellowship away from you is the teaching that salvation cannot be lost since that leads believers into a position of very fatal vulnerability), but I don't really think we will accomplish anything of value debating the matter. So I mean to make an answer here but not in order to start a debate. I will answer anything you have to say in response if I can do so reasonably and without strife. Otherwise I will refrain.

I think that the Bible's position on this is really not confusing. Just one passage in the Scriptures (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) is enough to sort all that out, but I have seen that the problem is not clarity on the Bible's part. In every single case where I have discussed this matter, the issue has been one of fear of the persecutions of the Tribulation. I don't think that that is something that any debate can solve. Rather it is something that a deliberate choice to grow spiritually no matter the cost will solve.

The more confident we grow in the Lord and the more we value the things of the world to come, the less concerned with this world we will be. One who is all caught up in the hope of the world to come hardly notices the pains of this life. That hope becomes an insulation from those pains. We see this so powerfully demonstrated in the case of Stephen whose martyrdom is amazingly devoid of any hint of fear or pain from him as he was being stoned. We even read of those who suffered horrendous things for their faith in Hebrews 11:35b-38. These ones, we hear, refused to be released from their suffering because they hoped for a "better Resurrection." This is amazing. It seems impossible, but the Scriptures teach us that it is true.

When we embrace the truth, it does set us free even from our fears. The truth is not only that the Tribulation is going to happen before we are resurrected to be with the Lord forever but also that those of us who are committed to following the Lord no matter what will be preserved in their faith even if they are tortured and killed. So rather than responding in fear, we ought to respond in hope that right on the heels of the Tribulation is the return of our King and our Resurrection to be with Him forever.

This is a treatment of the Tribulation that I highly recommend to anyone who cares: https://ichthys.com/Coming-Tribulation-Home-Page.htm.

To understand that treatment properly, this series too is a good precursor: https://ichthys.com/Satanic-Rebellion-Home-Page.htm.

bingbagbo:




Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


Period!

I bless the Lord for His Word, for His Protection of all those to whom His Truth is life itself, more precious than much refined gold.

I bless Him for preserving His Truth and making a witness for Himself in the earth that those who seek Him may find Him.

I bless Him for His Promised Justice against all those who destroy His Church and I rejoice greatly in my spirit for His deliverance of His Children from the lies of those who hate the Truth and of Satan their master.

Our God is good Who has preserved us and protected us through the truth ministered to willing hearts through the agency of pastor-teachers whom the Lord chooses and prepares for their work of ministry that they may give His children their food in due season.

Our God is forever praised who always delivers us from those who would destroy us.

bingbagbo:




Acts 9:4-5

[4]Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

[5]And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”

You must be born again

I'm not sure what bearing that that has on anything here. Should we expect something else from that passage? I think not.

Jman24:




My brother. You are also confirming my fears that Jesus is just like other Messengers of God. Because most of them behaved alike in their prophecies, teaches and miracle works). Meaning that You(Jesus) can't be God if you are "a kind of him" according to you insinuations.

So hope you can accept this reality you have just submitted? Else I don't know how we will see clear English language and twist it.

Seems 'God is spirit' looks more authentic and widely acceptable. The whole confusion if you notice is in the other factor Jesus ( meaning, something must be wrong somewhere)

Hi there.

I'm afraid I don't understand. Where did I say that Jesus was "a kind of God"?

God is Spirit, of course. I'm not sure what confusion there is in that. What that means is just that God is not made of any material that this creation is made of. The "substance" of God is Spirit. This is true of all Persons of God -- of the Father, of Jesus, and of the Holy Spirit. They are all Spirit. The difference with Jesus is that He also acquired a created nature so He is both Spirit and human unlike the other Two.

bingbagbo:






John 15:16

[16] You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

You must be born again bro

Of course, it was not us who appointed the Lord to save us. He chose to save us. When He made creation with us as a part of it, He had chosen us for salvation even then and that was because, as Romans 8 teaches us, He knew well before creating us that we would choose to be saved.

Please feel free to get born again if you want, my friend. But I've been born from above already. It is meaningless for me to seek anything more.

petra1:


Well maybe ,maybe not. I also saw a lot of typo errors in my post that you quoted . Corrections made

I obviously don't think that there is a real doubt what the Bible teaches here, but you are certainly free to believe or doubt anything you please.

bingbagbo:



Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The veil covering your heart is really thick!


John 1:12-13
[12]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

[13] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


You must be born again, don't be deceived by your position in 'church'

Not a single choice made anywhere in this world is made without God's say-so. The Lord knew us before He made us. He knew what we would want to choose. Therefore He made us with the ability and the opportunity to choose it. So, those whom God knew would want to be saved are those that He appointed to be saved.

And again, salvation is all God's work, not man's. So those who are born of God above are those who by their choice to believe took advantage of God's salvation in Christ Jesus. Doesn't mean that we don't make a choice. After all, it is to them that believe that power is given to become children of God, not to those who don't do anything at all.

As for my position in "church," I'm not sure what that means. I don't go to church in the traditional way. Those that might be called my church are a loose group of people scattered across the world, each person following the Lord according to their conscience as educated in the truth of God's Word. I am just one of them. When my own ministry as a pastor-teacher fully kicks off, maybe this position thing will make sense then.

bingbagbo:


Romans 8:29-30

[29]For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

[30] [b]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. [/b]God’s Everlasting Love

What are you talking about??

Our God is good. He has not left us with confusion but has made His counsel abundantly clear. If the Lord "foreknew," then of course He knew beforehand who would choose for Him and who wouldn't, and those are the ones for whom He has designed creation to make sure that their choices for the Truth are not at all thwarted or prevented. This is why we have been given life and breath and everything we could possibly need so that we will seek after Him and find Him.

25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.
Acts 17:25-27 (NIV)

Predestination is merely the biblical concept that God has made sure that all those who want to be saved will be saved. Nothing will prevent them from being saved. But if anyone wants to be saved, then they must choose to believe in Jesus Christ according to the Gospel and they must retain that faith until the end of their earthly lives or else they will fall away and not be saved in the end. Since God knows all those who will choose to hold on to faith in Jesus Christ no matter what, He has structured creation so that nothing will prevent them from making the choice that they want to make. That is predestination.

bingbagbo:




John 14:8-9

[8]Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

[9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

What more is there to say? Should the Lord Jesus have said something different to demonstrate that He and the Father were of one kind? Maybe the Scriptures could have put it some other way, but we do have other Scriptures to make sure that we don't fall into the madness of the lie that the Father and Jesus are the same person. So this Scripture stands exactly as written: the Lord Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all the same kind of Person. However things turn out with One is how they will turn out with the Other.

I have nothing more to say. As I said, please believe and teach what you like.

bingbagbo:





John 14:8-9

[8]Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

[9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

You can't accept this truth because The Spirit is not in you. You must be born again, bro

And, of course, since Jesus is God just like the Father is God, dealing with One is dealing with the Other. Seeing Jesus is seeing the Father. No one will get anything different from the Father than they would have got from Jesus. This still does not mean that the two are one person. It only means that they are the same kind of person.

As I said, don't worry about me. I am happy to teach what I have learned and let those who have ears hear. To be born again at this point would make it being born a third time. It sounds like apostasy to me. So I have no plan to accommodate it in my life. That is why I urged you not to bother to change my mind. My answers are not for you, because I don't believe you are looking for any answers. So please ignore me and continue to believe and teach what you like. The reward for that is between you and the Lord.

bingbagbo:




Romans 9:16


[16]So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

This passage was addressed in my answer above. Obviously, salvation is not due to our work but due to God's. Thus, His Mercy is how we are saved. But we must choose whether to accept that mercy or reject it. Those who insist on providing their own salvation, like Cain and Esau did, are the ones willing and running and still missing out on salvation just like most of Israel were and are.

bingbagbo:



2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is , there is liberty.

Is the above in your Bible?

This passage above is actually one of the most explicit passages that teach that, contrary to the claims of the Jehovah's Witnesses sect, for example, the Holy Spirit is both a Person and is also God. The Greek word used here is kyrios which was also the New Testament term for the Hebrew YHWH in the Old Testament in addition to other things.

As we know, YHWH was vocalized adonai which is the word most commonly translated both "lord" and "master" in the Old Testament in English versions of the Bible. So the use of kyrios here makes clear that the Holy Spirit is just as much God as Jesus and the Father both are.

An important point to keep in mind here is that Scriptures do not break each other. They all agree. So rejecting the witness of a part of the Bible ostensibly in favor of another one or to subordinate one to the other is a good way to end up in serious error.

This passage here only teaches that the Holy Spirit is also God by using the same title for God that the Father gave to Moses for His Identification to the Hebrews. It does not teach that the Holy Spirit is the same Person as Jesus Christ, especially not when other Scriptures clearly teach that He is not.

bingbagbo:
Now, contrary to what has been taught for centuries, the Holy Scriptures do not say Men have a FreeWill. Yes, men have a will but not a freewill.

If men had a free will, they would do whatever they desire and please but the Word of God makes us understand that, the plans of men are futile if the Lord doesn't endorse such place. In Romans Chapter 9, we are told about how the Lord hardened the heart of Pharoah for God's own divine purpose; Pharoah had no choice other than to do as the Lord had planned. In Genesis 20, God literally WITHHELD Abimalech from sinning (Sleeping with Sarah). See:

Genesis 20:6-7
[6]And God said to him in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.

[7]Now therefore, restore the man’s wife; for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live. But if you do not restore her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”


Once God can withhold men from doing certain things, then men don't have FREEWILL!

Hello.

As I said in the other thread, I'm quoting you for reference purposes, so that those who read my answers can easily see what I am responding to and where they can find it, if they go looking. Please, don't feel obliged to respond to me. I am not seeking a debate with you. I don't think that it is possible for me and you to have a meaningful one.

I think that the Scriptures are quite clear that human beings have a free will. That is what it means to be made in the image of God. See, for example, the following passage:

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:19 (NKJV)

The above is obviously declaring that men had a preference for one thing over another when they could have had either.

But free will is often misunderstood. Atheists insist that it must be the ability to do exactly anything that one wants. That is not what creature free will is. In the piece above, free will has been treated somewhat similarly to what atheists insist that it is, so the protest above does have some merit.

Creature free will is the creaturely counterpart or, more correctly, mirror (hence the Bible's use of the term "image" ) of God's Absolute Sovereignty. God is able to do anything at all that He wants. Nobody limits His desires or plans. He does not have a set of options from which He may choose and outside of which He cannot venture. For Him, reality is a blank canvas on which He can paint absolutely anything that pleases Him.

For creatures, this is not so. Those creatures to whom God has given a free will or rather, as the Bible actually puts it, those creatures that are made in God's Image are those that are able to make a free choice between options that God presents to them under the constraints of their individual makeup and their unique circumstances. That is, we cannot do anything that God has not made us able to do or that He has not given us an opportunity to do.

So, Abimelech in the example above would not have been able to sleep with Sarah if the Lord did not (1)make him physically able to or (2)give him an opportunity to do so. It doesn't matter if he wanted to do so. If events intervened that occupied him and exhausted his energies so that he never found the time to actually have sex with her, then he never would. If he fell sick and couldn't function sexually, then he also wouldn't be able to. It is in this way that the Lord limits our choices.

But this does not at all mean that we don't make choices. The fundamental choice that we all have to make is whether we will submit to God by putting our faith in His Messiah -- an unknown Person before the Cross, but real nevertheless, and the now-revealed Jesus Christ Who has died for the sins of all human beings -- or whether we will remain His enemies by rejecting the Gospel of the Salvation that He was yet to work in Jesus at the time of Abimelech and that He has now worked in the first Advent.

When we make this choice, the Lord organizes our physical abilities and circumstances to give us opportunities to confirm it or to eventually deny it. This is why Paul tells us that

13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
1 Corinthians 10:13 (NKJV)

Our experiences are designed by God so that we face tests that are exactly suited to our true hearts. Abimelech would not have sinned against God by marrying Sarah if he knew that she was Abraham's wife. So, the Lord preserved him from sinning any further by simply not allowing him to have a choice about sleeping with her. When the time was right for him to be tested again about it, the Lord revealed to him that he was in trouble already. And he acted according to his true heart and gave Sarah back to Abraham.

The example of Jacob and Esau speaks not to free will but to the nature of salvation. Paul's teaching there was that salvation is God's Work, not ours. How this applies to Jacob and Esau was that Jacob was the one who believed whereas Esau rejected the Gospel. The mention of God's election is about God's foreknowledge and His Working together of all things to make sure that all those who would choose Him would be saved.

In short, God is very heavily biased toward believers. He built creation to work in a way that would produce only true believers in Jesus Christ at the end. Jacob was obviously the one whom God knew would choose His Promises over what nice things that this world can offer. The Lord knew that Esau, on the other hand, would use his physical and spiritual resources and opportunities in this life to reject the Promises that God not only gave to his fathers but also made him natural heir to. So, of course, God rejected him before he was even born.

What God did in the past is decree that each person would make exactly the choice that they wanted to and also decree where each person belonged eternally on the basis of this choice that He knew that they would make given every opportunity.

Paul was using this to teach that salvation was God's work. Just as God is the One running the universe so that He is not really responding to any choices we are making, rather we are responding to His Eternal Decrees with our choices, in the same way salvation is not a response to our works, rather itself is God's Work in our behalf and we are the ones who must respond to it. This is what, as he says, Israel refused to accept and for which they were rejected as a result.

So, even Romans 9 does not teach that we don't have a free will.

boldx:
During my meditation this morning, I kept on wondering why John the Baptist was offended in Jesus Christ. He was locked up in prison because Herodias set him up and he fell for it. John was privileged to baptise Jesus in water knowing fully well that he is the Messiah but somewhere along the line, he had doubted his ministry and sent his disciples to go and ask Jesus if he was the Messiah. Jesus told the disciples, that the blind see, the deaf hear and the gospel is preached. Was John still offended in him that he couldn't draw virtue from Jesus' ministry and ultimately he was beheaded.

In what way can this be a lesson for modern day Christians. Please what do you think?

Hi there.

This is one of the passages that describes the matter that you are asking about:

2 And when John had heard in prison about the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples 3 and said to Him, “Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?” 4 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: 5 The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.” 7 As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written: Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ 11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Matthew 11:2-14 (NKJV)

The other passage is in Luke 7:18-28. Neither of them says anything about John being offended. Yes, the Lord Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who are not offended in (that is, who don't fall away from faith in God because of) Him.

Many Jews of that time who had been waiting for God's Messiah were tested by the appearance of Jesus Christ. As we can see from even the attitude of the apostles themselves (Acts 1:6), the expectation of many Jewish believers was that the Messiah was going to be a political savior. He was going to come and destroy the power of Rome, regather all Israel, and renew the earth.

All these things were true, but before they would happen, the Lord Jesus was supposed to die on the Cross first and open the door of salvation to the Gentiles too. This bit was something that even the prophets barely understood (1 Peter 1:10-12), so it is not very surprising that some believers apostatized when they saw that Jesus was not delivering Israel from the power of Rome and raising the nation to preeminence in the world.

This test was meant for John the Baptist too. And he did not fail it, although he certainly got somewhat confused and doubted a little, which was why he sent his disciples to ask the question that he did. Which of us does not occasionally stumble? We all fail sometimes (James 3:2), but how many of us will ever get the praise that the Lord Jesus heaped on John the Baptist?

So I wouldn't say that John the Baptist was ever offended. He certainly sent to ask Jesus if he had been wrong about Him, but that can hardly be called "offence." Those who apostatize don't ask God questions. They just dismiss His Word and embrace the lies that they prefer. John stumbled briefly and the Lord Jesus restored him with just the right answer. That very likely have him the strength to suffer martyrdom without apostatizing from the Lord.

May we be encouraged and strengthened too as John was. May we remember to turn to the Lord when we grow weary and stumble just as John did too. May the Lord rejoice enough in us to speak as highly of us as He did of John too.

bingbagbo:

Acts 20:28

Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

The Holy Spirit (God Almighty) Bought the Church with His Own Blood. Halleluyah.

A gentleman asked the other time on this platform that , what is the name.of the Holy Spirit? I loved the question.

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus directed His disciples to baptise in THE NAME (Singular) of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit. Go through the scriptures especially the Book of Acts (Acts 2:38, Acts 19:5, Colossians 3:17, Acts 10:48) ; you will know that the disciples baptised in the Name of Jesus. The Name of The Father, and Of The Son and of The Holy Spirit is Jesus!

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are no names but TITLES; just like one person could be The Farmer, Father and Husband. May the Lord grant you understanding.

Hi.

I'm quoting your post for reference purposes, so please feel free to ignore my comment. It is not really meant to address you although it will address what you have said. You may respond if you please, but I may not carry on the conversation, since this is a fundamental break in our (yours and mine) common claim to faith in Christ and we have proven in the past that our views cannot be reconciled.

16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.
John 14:16-17a (NIV)

The above passage is self-explanatory. Obviously, the Lord Jesus is not the Father or the Spirit. These are different Persons from Him Who share the same divine essence with Him. They are all God, but they are separate Persons from One Another. The whole Bible bears this out. The following passage is further proof.

17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life —only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
John 10:17-18 (NIV)

It is not impossible to twist the Scriptures to teach all manner of lies. This is one reason that James warns us not to aspire to be teachers. Not everyone has the gift of teaching. And even among those who do, the training and testing that are necessary to come into full-fledged ministry often prevent some of us from ever becoming pastor-teachers. So, the fact that someone can post Bible passages and insist that they mean this or that is not conclusive proof that they know what they are talking about.

...our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:15b-16 (NKJV)

petra1:


What do you expect from a writer in the bible generation to write. When he can only call vehicles of the last day battle chariots ! . Do you really think the last battle will be awards and chariots? They spoke from their perspective. The principle is the key . The work for mark also means scratch ,etching etc. Thats not the point. Definitely there will be and implant and most probably have a physical mark or not

Hello.

Perhaps the writer was constrained by the technological limitations of his time, perhaps he was not. One thing that you and I seem to agree on is that he most certainly did not say that there would be an implantation. He spoke of, as you have said, an etching or a scratching, but definitely not an insertion. Perhaps we who live in these times should be expected to understand that biometric chips and other forms of insertions should not be ruled out, but this is an interpretation of what the writer actually says, not the actual text, so it could be wrong. As it is, I see no real reason why an insertion could not have been accommodated in John's writing. Even if micro- and nanochip technology did not exist in his day, the concept of insertions were not altogether nonexistent. It was possible for him to state things in a way that would have accommodated us today without completely losing his audience at the time. That is an argument, but it does not mean that John could not have done what you said that he did.

My position is to stand with what the actual text leads me to believe, namely, that there will be, as you put it, an etching or a scratching on the skin of the forehead or the right hand for everyone who yields to the seductions or threats of the Antichrist and chooses to accept his mark as a result.

Even further, when we take into consideration the effects of the massive trumpet judgments that will hit the world in the first half of the Tribulation, it seems obvious to me that there will be significant disruptions of modern technology. Whether we will still have the capacity to make such technology in the chaos of that time, assuming that any of it is retained, remains to be seen. It seems far more likely that a tattoo is more realistic to expect then. No matter the state of technology, tattoos have always been somewhat easy to administer.

Finally, if we take into account that the mark is a bold declaration of allegiance to the Antichrist, it seems that something very visible is to be expected, not something hidden.

All the above taken together suggests to me that it is not going to be a chip or any other kind of insertion. And that only makes stronger the idea that John meant exactly what he said: that the mark will be a visible etching or scratching on the forehead or on the right hand.

vybzkartel:

The word of God can't lie

Luke 10:17-20

[17]Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

[18]And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

[19]Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

[20]Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

Our Lord Jesus said all these even before He died. He had Authority over all the power of Satan. So why do some people fear Satan like that? They give Satan preeminence . Satan is subject to Christ. Note that , in verse 17, the 70 reported that the demons were subject to the name Jesus. Jesus Christ is God, He controls creation. Halleluyah

Hi there.

Our Lord Jesus certainly has authority over Satan. The Bible is clear that He has been crowned King of all kings and Lord of all lords and that He has ascended to a position far above all every authority (Matthew 28:18; Ephesians 1:20-22; Philippians 2:9). But the Bible also says,

Of David. A psalm.
1 The LORD says to my lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I [begin to] make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”
Psalms 110:1 (NIV) (compare Revelation 11:17)

The Lord Jesus has not yet begun to reign, that is, although He has been made King, He has not yet started to exercise His Authority over all His Dominions. He Himself said to us:

30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.
John 14:30 (NKJV) (compare 2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19)

This world is in the wicked one. The spiritual system that rules over this planet is the kingdom of darkness (Colossians 1:13). When we are saved, we are rescued out of that kingdom and made citizens of a different Kingdom whose rule over the earth is yet to come (John 18:36). When this is said, people often recall what the Lord Jesus said:

20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Luke 17:20-21 (NIV)

But this only meant that the Head of that Kingdom was right there with the people with whom the Lord was speaking. Because we are citizens of that Kingdom now that we are saved, our presence in the world is exactly the same. The Kingdom of God is in this way among the people of this world, but only in the form of an invading force. That is why there is a war going on.

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Ephesians 6:12 (NIV)

3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (NIV)

Christians are those who have been set free from Satan's kingdom and who are resisting being made slaves again and are helping to free others who wish to be freed from Satan's tyranny. But their Kingdom is not yet here on earth. They have to wait patiently for the day that it will come and destroy this other kingdom that is ruling over the world today. That is their job -- to wait and refuse to succumb to the threats and seductions of their old country and help one another in doing so. Thinking that, because their King is more powerful than Satan and has received the right to rule over the earth, they ought to take over the earth now is a recipe for disaster. Their King commands patience for now until the time when all their brothers and sisters have been rescued from Satan's hold.

When Jesus returns, He will destroy Satan's kingdom and power and cleanse the earth of all evil rule. Until then, believers are to recognize that they are in enemy territory and not precipitate things that their Commander has not told them to precipitate.

What we can take away from this is that we ought not to be afraid of Satan just because he is the ruler of this world. Our King is not only more powerful than him (much more powerful, in fact), He is also the rightful ruler of this world, even if He is not ruling yet. Another thing is that we should be patient. This world is ruled by an evil ruler, so it is not surprising that things are so bad in it. It is also ruled by a usurper, so we should not be surprised that it is cursed by God. But this will not continue forever. Not only will the Lord preserve us in the midst of the wickedness of this world as we continue to trust and follow Him, but He will also eventually destroy Satan's power and establish His Own Eternal Kingdom here. If we fail to wait patiently, then we will soon find ourselves imprisoned by Satan again when we move without our Commander's permission and protection. This is what is happening with many of the churches of this world today and what will happen overwhelmingly during the Tribulation.

18 Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you;
therefore he will rise up to show you compassion.
For the LORD is a God of justice.
Blessed are all who wait for him!
Isaiah 30:18 (NIV)

blueAgent:


Like I said before you lack comprehension.
There is big difference from saying God will or should strike you and what I wrote," before God"

Everyone who read my quote knows that it was a warning to you to desist from confusing and distracting the thread hence my use of the word "before"

What did you score in English?
An F I guess

LOL!!!

What you made is called "a conditional statement" both in English and in philosophy. What it means is exactly that your god would strike me if I didn't shut up. I'll gladly teach you simple things like this because it amuses me to do so.

So you are lying again. And your tomfoolery is obvious.

The short of it is that you know that your god can do no such thing as you claim. Had anything happened to me just then, you would be rushing to claim that you are a prophet and that no one should oppose your madness unless they wished to be struck too. But since nothing happened, you're looking for an escape. You are a liar, sir, and the tragic news is not even that; rather it is that you know that you are and you don't care. Your ego is more important to you than the truth, so fluffing your feathers and strutting like a proud peacock is really all you care about doing.

Carry on. It's your life and your own eventual judgment to bear.

blueAgent:



See response of someone claiming to know?
You are disgrace to Christianity.

I never said God should strike you as you now claim. I only warned you that God do strike people who oppose his word and work.
Read carefully and comprehend before you comment, you are in public stop making mockery of yourself.

Every one on this thread is observing how you keep dodging the question i asked you, to point out where I am wrong and give the correct answer.

But you would not becos you know nothing.

"So you better shut up before God who has laid this as a burden in my heart and life would strike you."
https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire/3#97438256

That's exactly what you said. But of course you'd lie about it just as you have been lying about everything else on this thread.