₦airaland Forum

I,and I guess many others, don't relish replying this kinds of posts.mainly because the inquirers are usually, hardly interested in learning but aim at ridicule&stubborn dogma. I wish would be an exception(if wishes were horses).
As usual, many have ERRED not knowing the Bible or God's power. God doesn't get 'scared',and the Genesis passage doesn't say that He was 'scared'.

I,and I guess many others, don't relish replying this kinds of posts.mainly because the inquirers are usually, hardly interested in learning but aim at ridicule&stubborn dogma. I wish would be an exception(if wishes were horses).
As usual, many have ERRED not knowing the Bible or God's power. God doesn't get 'scared',and the Genesis passage doesn't say that He was 'scared'.

I,and I guess many others, don't relish replying this kinds of posts.mainly because the inquirers are usually, hardly interested in learning but aim at ridicule&stubborn dogma. I wish would be an exception(if wishes were horses).
As usual, many have ERRED not knowing the Bible or God's power. God doesn't get 'scared',and the Genesis passage doesn't say that He was 'scared'.

I hope kunle is discussing here.

I've not come here saying alcohol is a sin,I should remind you that alcohol can be found even outside fermented wine. It is its right use that I've called for(like it can be used in cleaning,production,fuelling etc). I've come correcting folks who think Jesus was an alcoholic &that He endorsed alcohol consumption of any %. I've come against using the Bible to falsely defend alcoholism. That's what a forum is for, for discussion, for learning. It's not for accusations and assertions(kunleOshob's trademarks).
Kunle's talking about DISCUSSING tithes with me. Discussing? Does Kunle discuss? If he does,it's rare. He majors in loading accusations and thinking others are under spell of some scam pastors who lie under HolySpirit. He hardly addresses issues,but goes in worthless cycles. When you explain and dissolve his quotes&scripture references,he hardly refers to what you've said as right or wrong. He simply brings up another 'point',then another and another, until he comes back to the first one like you never mentioned it. He does all these with a lot of vent&condemnation,calling demons&angels against you. You see,one just have to leave him to himself,and avoid unprofitable debates/strifes/webpage abuse rant

The OT says kings should not drink wine,it also says priests should not drink wine. It says wine should not be brought into the temple for drinking. How does that apply to us as NT believers. We're today's priests and kings,so says the Bible. It is not for kings to drink wine, leave it for the people who are ready to perish. We are the temple of God,wine shouldn't come into that temple for recreation purposes. (N.B the above wines refer to fermented wine not non.alcoholic wine)
Proverbs 14v15 says the simple/foolish believe everything,but the prudent looks well to his going. Proverbs 22v3 says the prudent man foresees the evil(AT LAST) and hides himself. The simple continues and are punished.

But billions today, according to you, or at least MILLIONS are in perfect control. No sir, let every man be wrong and God be true, wine bites at last.
At pentecost, Peter had no need to say 'Christians don't drink wine'. The ACCUSATION was ridiculous. If I follow your reasonings,I could also say 'A man accused of murder doesn't have to say I'm a christian,we don't kill.' It may be more natural for him to say 'that dead person is my wife or my friend or my child.' Its not compulsory for him to use a courtroom defence like 'I don't kill people,check up my records'. It is absurd to wake up to get drunk in any part of this planet. Even today, people go to the winehouse/beer parlor majorly in the evenings, not at the 3rd hour of the day. 120 people couldn't be drunk at that time. It was NOBLESP who concluded that the apostles were drunk at that time. It's okay for Peter to tell that to be reasonable,instead of declaring his spirituality. Why is it that its mockers that keep saying apostles are drunk and Jesus is winebiber? Why do you infer from these people, why do you stand behind them,why sit with the scornful?
Christ and christians have always been accused. Jesus was accused of madness and demon possession. The devil(accuser) is the chief behind this. He is a liar and the father of lies

Isaiah 5v22 says WOE to those who are mighty to drink wine i.e wine heroes,wine champions,the ideal 'winers',shining examples,guarantors,advocates. Proverbs says 'It is NOT FOR kings to drink wine.' Proverbs 20v1 says 'wine is a mocker.' It ridicules you. We are warned so much to be sober(a direct opposite of drunk), we're told to be controlled by God's Spirit,not by wine. Proverbs 23v32 tells us that wine bites like a serpent and adder at last. Scripture is filled with a plethora of examples of people who got drunk. What else do you want? Isn't even just Proverbs 31 enough? Don't you know that these things were written for our examples, to make us perfect and fit for God? Must you have every saint harping about wine? Don't you understand that the kingdom of God is more than that,and there are more important things to dwell on.
Noah was the most righteous man in his generation,wine had no such respect. Lot was the most righteous man in his city,he couldn't control wine.kings and eminent people made terrible actions cos they could not control wine.

By the way, Jesus has told us the kind of wine to be drank at the kingdom age. It's repeated through I think 3 of the gospels,it is the fruit of the vine that will be drunk and it is NEW. I'll rather believe Jesus, He knows what He's talking about.

Rabzy and co,
It's rather obvious that you didn't read the link/book that I referred you to OR you read it and fermented it. Are you aware that wine can be kept from fermenting? Are you aware that grape juice doesn't naturally become what you call 'wine',it has to be induced to become 'wine'. Grape juice that is left to naturally ferment becomes vinegar,not fermented wine. There is something called food preservation, grape juice was preserved. They couldn't preserve as efficiently as we can in the modern world,but they did preserve. And that's why they were always extra careful not to take too much of wine(even new) because their wineskins were not labeled non-alcoholic or 4% alcohol content or such like,as we can label today. Wine was always in danger of fermenting,just like fish is in danger of spoiling. But it could be preserved to an extent for decent periods. It was not COMMON/normal to be drunk in Israel,it was gentiles and lawless jews who had respect for old wine. Jews always cherished new wine ahead of any other.
Lees is insoluble matter that settles from A LIQUID,especially from wine;sediments;dregs.
It says especially,NOT always. Insoluble matter also settles from orange juice, fresh grape juice, crudeoil, fermented wine and many other LIQUIDs. It doesn't have to be only from FERMENTED wine.

Rabzy,the point is not that 'ALCOHOL for passover was later introduced',the point is that passover didn't include wine(fermented or unfermented). If any wine was drank,it couldn't be fermented because nothing yeasted was permitted. If the corinthians drank fermented wine(which is not stated), well they were wrong. And you did praise the corinthians. For heaven's sake,you said the corinthians were CLEAR EXAMPLES.(What is praise? To admire,complement). How can you say Jesus was following a general custom. It was not a general custom to use fermented wine for passover, the Bible doesn't show that, and Jesus came to fulfill the law. The law says nothing fermented/leavened/yeasted for the seven days of passover.
And you say I was insultive,how? Well I'm very sorry. But you're the one who has called me a pharisee,mischievous,condemner,sarcastic,demonizer.Such accusations hardly moves me.My mentors(like Jesus) were hardly moved. What you said was that billions of people are like you,that they don't get drunk(at least not in the past 15yrs). Its the end of post 193. I don't condemn you,it's not my job.

Continued ASSUMPTION, under unlicensed probability, that the wine used at the Lord's supper was fermented wine, has no biblical support. It is this NEW fruit of the vine that Jesus promises to drink in the kingdom age, not some FERMENTED wine on the lees.
Now for you to assume that BILLIONS of people take alcohol without getting drunk is insincere and without base. BILLIONS?Are you talking about humans or animals. You're not aware of the sorry rate of drunkeness all over the world and its effects? Spare us this cock and bull abeg.

Numbers 28 is talking about sacrifices/offerings,all which point to Christ Jesus, not to God's table manners as you suggested. It is an offering/sacrifice, for atonement, to be poured like blood was poured. It was all concerning Christ, not about us sharing menu with God or God joining us at table. And when we come to Christ our passover/offering, He shows us the way,for He is the Way.
The bible records that after supper Jesus took the cup and gave them. Matthew 26v29 describes its content as 'this fruit of the vine.' every sincere person knows that the fruit of the vine is grapejuice, and also the passover room could not contain leavened products like fermented wine. And then Jesus 'clothes' the cup with NEW as if to give full proof that this cup's content is NEW. He symbolizes it as NEW testament and He says He'll not drink until He drinks it NEW in the kingdom to come.

This is english,you understand I'm sure. You don't need Ph.d or greek scholarship to understand these. The corinthian practise was wrong, it wasn't worthy of praise/emulation. They were in no way clear example. The clear example is Christ and that's who 1Cor 11v23 points to. That reminds me, do you know that the Jewish passover had nothing to do with wine? Exodus 12 says it is the lamb,with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
As you may have seen, Exodus 12v15 says they were to eat unleavened bread and PUT AWAY leaven OUT of your houses. Exodus 13v7 repeats that leaven must not be seen in all your quarters. Leaven is yeast and it is what was/and is used to make fermented wine. Infact Ex 12v19 and co says intake of leaven products during passover could lead to 'drastic' measures. Any wine taken could not have been leavened/fermented.

Why is it that you people build your alcohol points on negatives. Now you're quoting 1Cor 11 to support you!, that's funny. The Spirit of God through Paul was correcting the corinthians and condemning their actions, but here you are, using their condemned actions to support alcohol. You want to lay your foundations on the carnal corinthians, who couldn't receive spiritual meat, who were committing fornication with their in.laws? Whose actions usually suprised the Spirit. What?
Look at it again, 1Cor11 v17 says 'I praise you NOT'. Why is it that rabzy is the one praising them and saying it is a clear example of 'wine used for passover.' v20 said they were NOT eating the Lord's supper, v21 says his own supper. They were eating their own supper, not the Lord's. v22 says the suprised WHAT?

Rabzy,what sort of questions are you asking me? Do I know the number of people at the wedding? Do you also know? It is not stated,but I think it is absurd to imagine that they were probably in their thousands, that the whole of Galilee,Cana and more were present as your url suggests. Brother it was a wedding,not a crusade. Everybody knows wedding, we don't need books and rabbis to inflate 'possible' wedding population. Do I have an idea of the alcoholic content? Do you for sure? Do I have an idea of how many days the feast lasted? It is not stated or do you? We're told SOME not all marriage feasts last up to 3-7 days. One thing we're sure of is,this was not the beginning of the feast whether 1hour or 1year.

Kunle stop wondering, not everyone is insolent and insubordinate. There are believers who 'obey them that have rule over' them. Whatever your feelings, God approves of it so mind your business.
You have failed to realize that the word 'wine' was and is used to refer to BOTH fermented wine and other drinks, too bad. It does not take a 1st class student to know that 'oil' in the Bible doesn't always have to be palm oil, 'bread' doesn't always have to be what we call bread today, 'meat' does not always have to be what we call meat today, and the same applies to wine. It's common sense,it doesn't require greek scholarship. To assume that wine is always your preconceived definition of ALCOHOL, shows who really cannot think outside the LITTLE box.

Hi,rabzy. I'm not able to reply your posts as I may wish,cos I'm not using my computer but my phone this period and that may be so for a while. Nonetheless,lets see.
Lees is dregs,remains, sediments or deposits. It doesn't always have to be of FERMENTED WINE. Fresh grape juice can have sediments as well. You can try it on your own,possibly with squeezed orange in a cup. Forget dico and co, you'll see lees/remains settled in the cup. If you insist anyway that the wines on the lees Must be alcoholic, well the Isaiah 25v6 passage says WELL REFINED. The wine is refined/purified/treated. i.e it's the purest thing around. I don't see even the remotest possibility of drunkeness adver Jesus comes. It's Jesus we're talking about here,not Mo'. I'll say more on that later though

Rabzy,
Talking about wine, you said that the scriptures 'IN SO MANY PLACES' is talking about avoiding excesses. No sir, most places wine is referred to in the negative. Unfortunately, you've failed to see that the word wine(/its equivalent in other languages) was used to describe both fermented and unfermented drinks. The juice of the grape(commonly called wine in scripture) could be taken but not in excess. These people were not as scientifically inclined as many are today. Unfermented wine wasn't full proof immune to fermentation. There was a thin line and ALl jews were careful not to take wine in excess. They were obviously learning from mistakes of others before them. They were not presumptous and their history had no respect for old wine,which was widely agreed to be intoxicating. It's the same lesson you should learn. Don't desire alcohol, abstain from all appearances of evil.

What do you want me to comment about in Numbers 28v7, that place says 'drink offering' twice. You wan chop drink offering or burnt offering? Some people have tried to knowingly/unknowingly mislead us to think Jesus was an alcoholic, a winebiber, one who loved intoxicating wine. That's why we've talked about wine NOT ALWAYS refering to intoxication.
That Jesus took ALCOHOL is based on shaky dreamy probability. Do you have an idea of the volume of wine that was to be taken at passover/Supper? Do you have an idea of the volume of wine that was produced in cana. Common, Jesus is the Holy Son of God, not nigerian breweries. He will never 'lead others into temptation', it's not in Him. It is blasphemy to assert so.
I just loaded and saved your page rabzy, I'll read it. It's good if you went through the previous link as well and the 'Jesus and wine' chapter link. Regards

First, there is nothing like alcohol 'in the Bible', lets not forget that. That's settled. I want to believe that what you refer to as alcohol is the man-made, fermented yeast induced wine i.e 'in the Bible'. We other 'wines' outside like stout, harp, shepe and co.
What I see in 'so many places in scripture' is condemnation of wine because it makes one drunk, not condemnation of drunkeness only,sparing the wine. Wine is a mocker, never forget that.
It's funny that people run to the OT for permission of their indulgences, but when real issues come up, they claim freedom from law and OT (kunle is a strong example of that fickle nature).
Lee is shelter, what are you infering/implying from Isaiah 25v6? Try to check commentaries on it or read it in other versions. Abi the other versions kill your inference?

And you have shown us that Jesus took was a winebiber, rubbish. Did you bother to read that link I sent you and its chapters, like chapter 5(on Jesus and wine). Maybe that might open your eyes.
Most important though,the truth from God is revealed. If you're not open to revelation, scholarship may never do it for you. Good luck sha

Kunle, whatz happening now, you not told me what the good news is na. Abi you no want make I born agains? Is the good news giving to the poor ESPECIALLY THE NEEDY AND LESS PRIVILEGED. Don't mind 'my' guess o, pray tell me.

To be carnally minded is death

To be carnally minded is death

To be carnally minded is death

To be carnally minded is death

To be carnally minded is death

^the above are groans of confusion.
Huxley, why not try Jesus again. Only Jesus gives lasting satisfaction, not church or science or self.

Allta
Why don't you start reading/studying to help yourself against reading to argue. Why is it that of that long long long page, what you could hold unto is that wine is different from strong drink?
One of the reasons why I sent that link was because you were trying to boss it to us that 'yayin or oinos' always means fermented wine. Did you learn that it doesn't always mean so? Did you learn that fermented wine is man's invention? Have you learnt that Jesus is not a glutton and winebiber, that such allegation might be from the 'pit of hell'? Have you learnt what it means to be sober and not given to wine/debauchery. Learn to learn bro. A true disciple learns

See the thread that kuns directed me to. Every other person 'bandies' fallacy except you. See the whole thing sef. This is one of the reasons why people sometimes log away instead of logging out

See the thread that kuns directed me to. Every other person 'bandies' fallacy except you. See the whole thing sef. This is one of the reasons why people sometimes log away instead of logging out