₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
No, Thanks.





How many times do I need to mention that I think believing is a useless proposition?

Well then, Jehovah Yahweh (Image123's god), I hereby submit a request for you to restore an amputee's limb in a visible and recorded manner. Thanks. Yours sincerely, Lord Reed.

If God heals an amputee immediately, how do you know seeing you don't know any amputee neither are you one. Also you don't believe in testimonies of healing. You don't seem to know what YOU want. Ask again for a personal miracle.

Lemme see if I get you. Generally for healing faith is not crucial but in certain cases it is necessary. Is this what you are saying?

Yes, we're in good agreement. Alleluia.

LordReed:
1. You are not an expert.

2. Even if you were an expert, you don’t know enough about me to make any sort of confident diagnosis.

3. You are free to speculate but once I tell you what is in my mind, you don’t get to say otherwise because you don't share my mind with me.

Keep the diagnosis for your personal records, it's free.

I want to see Elon Musk succeed in his brain computer interface, it doesn't mean I am desperate for it. The proper adjective is intrigued or fascinated. I would be intrigued or fascinated to see an amputee healed by your god.

There are no amputees spoken about in the Bible which is exactly the point.

While you may not be interested in such a feat, I am so since you are not, how about you skip that part and let others who are figure it out.

I am not concerned with how hard or soft you care to be, that is entirely your business.

Good, you are intrigued or fascinated to see God heal an amputee. i'm not. Do you notice how you avoided these? Do you believe the healings n the Bible or the ones people report? Would you believe it if it was recorded in the Bible? Your answers to these will spare you and others from wasting such time. If YOU need a miracle, you are free to submit your request, God works miracles today.

There is some contradiction here. You say faith is a huge step then you say faith is not crucial. How can something be a huge step but not be crucial?

In your example of the beggar, I'd say yes I am an unreliable source for that beggar. If I was reliable he won't need to beg.

No contradiction. Faith is not a critical compulsion to healing. Something that is CRUCIAL is decisive or critical, especially in the success or failure of something. Faith is not necessarily decisive or critical, especially in the success or failure of healing. It CAN BE a major factor but not always so. Maybe that is clearer?

HellVictorinho:
I am ready to die.

Reed hold your boy, he's on the usual verge ohh. Nuff said.

HellVictorinho:
Don't mind that one.
He's just another Bible quoter.

You really do not want my full attention, you may change your name to hellfire because the one doing you is still small.

LordReed:
Then you misdiagnosed because at no point in our previous discussions have I ever expressed that I don't want a god to exist, that is a figment of your prejudice.

Diagnosis don't work that way, experts sometimes tell everyday people what they do not know about themselves. Like some people are told that they have ailments that they never knew, or that they have certain time left to live etc.

What a laugh. Where does desperate enter into this? Desperate for what exactly? We ask you to provide evidence, you can't provide it and we are the ones desperate? If I was an amputee I certainly won't be waiting for your god to do anything about it because for the many thousands of years of recorded history, the god has not done such a thing, not even in your bible is it recorded. Meanwhile men are making progress in helping people regain limb functionality where previously lost. I will rather take my chances with such than become desperate for an unevidenced god.

If "desperate" includes feeling or showing a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with. Then you guys are desperate to see God heal an amputee. You have been asking for it for years, right or right? i do not need the evidence so i do not need to look for it. How many amputees do you know of in the Bible? Do you believe the healings n the Bible or the ones people report? Would you believe it if it was recorded in the Bible? You are lucky i'm unsually soft, don't get unlucky already.

Oh now you agree it's chance but previously when I said it was by chance you wanted to kick me in the head. LMAO!

Faith has ALWAYS being in degrees/sizes. My level of faith may not be the level of faith of another person. It is implicit that there will be varying degrees of chance or possibility. It's like saying a man with a lot of money(faith) has a greater chance of survival or of recovery from a sickness. This doesn't mean that the money is insignificant or not necessary. His riches should help him pay for good medicine and have access to quality/world class healthcare. At least, he is probably at a better chance than a poor beggar. But it is still a CHANCE. There are other factors too.
Also and secondly, it is like saying that a lady that exercises(has faith) should be more fit or live a more healthy life than the one that does not. There is still the element of CHANCE in it. It does not make the exercising or keeping fit of no worth. It simply means other things may be involved.

Faith is by all means a huge step towards receiving anything from God.

I am talking about the usefulness of faith for things such as healing. If the god is sovereign why does he need your faith? Does your faith make his power more real? You say faith is one of the ways so I assume there are other ways? Even the bible says an angel used to stir up a pool and anyone who entered it was healed, no faith required so indeed according to the bible healing can take place without faith, why then is faith so crucial? What is special about faith when the god can just send angels to stir up pools and provide people with healing?

i will restate again that one MAY receive from God without faith. For instance, God worked some great miracles among the Israelites despite their unbelief.
Psa 78:22  Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation: 
Psa 78:23  Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven, 
Psa 78:24  And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.

This is clear and we seem to agree on it. There are other things that make God to work miracles or through which one can receive from God. For instance, the Israelites in focus had things like God's covenant and faithfulness to their forefathers(Abraham and co) working for them. They had the prayers and person of Moses, they had time factor(there is time for everything and it was time for God to fulfill the prophecy given), and of course they have God's sovereignty which you referenced. God is not an automaton or machine, He is a person. Like every person you want to receive something from, there are usually some attitude you may display to receive the person's favour or help. For instance, you may be cordial, respectful, engaging, punctual etc. But the person still has his/her personal prerogative to say yes/no to your request. The attitude you display may tick the boxes and get or not get.
For instance you may be in traffic and meet a beggar and you give him something. You may meet the same beggar another day, he may do the same thing but you did not give anything for reasons best known to you. It does not necessarily mean you are unstable, does it? It sure shows you are not a robot.
Faith is not CRUCIAL or a critical compulsion to healing, but it can be an important ingredient. One MAY BE healed by medicine. Healing can come by praise, principle, mercy, promise, obedience etc.

LordReed:
Good. Then from my perspective people can be great even while being fools in other areas. Fela was great but was a fool where his health was concerned.

Exactly.

LordReed:
You don't get to be the one to tell me what I want or don't want, you should ask and not jump into conclusions. That said whether or not I don't want a god to exist is irrelevant because reality does not work based on my whims. If a god exists, it will exist whether or not I want it to. What I do want is to know if a god exists and how such knowledge can be established unequivocally.

But you know that i'm not just knowing you last week for God's sake . i know you and i gave you your proper diagnosis. You don't like it so no problem. God exists whether you want that or not, good one. Your meaning of unequivocally is likely your terms, physical and in the lab. Unfortunately for us both, God is not boxed up in the lab or by our terms. In the Bible, God says He is a Spirit and that we must believe to know Him.

No record because we have repeatedly ask for such a record and nobody has provided it.

You make an even stronger case for the uselessness of belief. According to you he will do what he will do so why do you need to believe?

Did you guess that you are the one(s) desperately in need of the stats? i don't need the records so i don't need to look for them AT ALL. i do not know any amputee not to talk of looking for the one healed or not healed. That is why i ask you how many you know so that we can at least work on that and see how many can be healed or have been healed. Are you an amputee? Have you asked any amputees if others have been healed? They may have the information, you know?

Like i said, God does not promise to heal everyone but He does heal. He is Jehovah Rapha. One of the ways of receiving healing from Him is FAITH. You must have read "your faith has made you whole". If you have faith, you greatly increase your chance of being healed. That is about faith for healing anyway, dunno if you are talking about the usefulness of faith in general(as well).

LordReed:
So an atheist who is a billionaire or a renowned scientist or a head of state or a magnanimous philanthropist is not great because according to your bible they are a fool? How does that make sense?

Perspective reed, perspective. The person that says such a person is a fool(not just foolish) looks with the perspective and belief in eternity and an ETERNAL God. IF God exists and the Bible is true, it makes all the sense in the world to call the renowned billionaire sinner a fool. BECAUSE his renown and titles are for maybe 100years to enjoy. If a thousand years is like 1 day to God. Perhaps such a person is a billionaire philanthropist and scientist for 2hrs in God's time, and in penury and judgement for the rest of the week/eternity. While the wise person is the one that enjoys the whole week or at least the greater part of the week/eternity. While you think your renowned man scored a goal, the linesman says he is offside OYO.

LordReed:
I don't need a miracle to believe in a god because belief I think is a useless proposition. If the god exists and is going to act then I don't see how belief alters that. Nor do I believe these are miracles because they happen to people regardless of their beliefs so I don't believe them when they say a god healed them. Sure it could be determined if the ailment is indeed gone but I am not convinced that their attribution to a god is correct.

Summarily, when I point out that there has been no record of a regrown amputees limb, I highlight how the attribution to your god, immense cosmic powers seems at odds with the state of affairs. So I ask why? Are you saying none of the people that are Christians with amputated limbs are really children of your god? Are you saying none of them was worthy of having their limbs restored, even children who had congenital defects? These questions have never been answered satisfactorily.

You don't need a miracle to believe in God, fine. Almost like me,only that you are determined not to believe even if there was a miracle. You'd rather explain and assume it away than believe because you don't want to believe. Belief would shatter your world literally, but let's dismiss it as insignificant, right. Properly said, you don't want God to exist.

When you say no record, record where? How many amputees records do you have for instance? Are you an amputee?
Again, God heals. Also you don't primarily need healing to believe in a god or God. You are a witness to that i believe. God doesn't promise to heal everyone, He's not father christmas remember. His own purpose and priority is different from yours. He has promised no sickness and total health in the world to come. The door to that world is significantly accessible to all.

LordReed:
You simply trying to stretch the semantics for no apparent gain. You are fool when you act foolishly.

fool
/fuːl/
noun

a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person.

Again my question is how does being a fool aka acting foolishly stop one from being considered great?

"Foolish" is an adjective. One can behave foolish or childish or insanely without being actually a fool or a child or insane.
Being a fool like(in perspective) the fellow put it is a biblical condition not necessarily intellectual. A fool is a person, noun or abiding position and state. Except it's a great fool, there's no greatness to be desired in a fool. It is wisdom that leads to greatness.

kingxsamz:
Adult baby.

There is peace and joy in Jesus that no fading memes or jokes can give. We're all waiting for you to think and make the decision. Remember, your brain tells you that one will be a Christian if he has Christian parents. Don't fool around no more.

kingxsamz:
Who is this one?
And what nonsense is he talking about?
I can tell you're very hurt as you're unable to make a sentence without mentioning one's parent. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Adult baby.
My relatives don't even complain about my umbelief, it is you, a mere stranger who's frustrated about it. Cry more abeg. Adult baby.

Abstain from nonsense posts, mummy is praying for you.

kingxsamz:
Lol, how did you know this? And how come you are already giving this intelligent designer a gender and all these attributes?

How did you know or believe in the 70million year old?

LordReed:
We will all be foolish one way or another at some point in our lives. What makes you think foolishness stops one from being great? Almost all your bible heros were foolish at some point according to their stories, yet you'll still call them great.

Being foolish is different from being a fool. You of all people should know that. Being childish is different from being a child.

LordReed:
Of what relevance is this to the subject? We are talking of your god being unable to heal Christians who are amputees or who have cancer, what has your question got to do with that?

Oh, in your line of reasoning among other things, you said "Yes I think I am special enough for special visitation." That was one of the things that prompted me to say that "Miracles are not guarantees of people loving God or going to Heaven or pleasing God. "

Children of God already love Him and obey Him, so in their case, they do not exactly need miracles FOR them to love or obey Him like you may suppose. Many children of God also testify every single week about God's miracles to them and around them, do you believe them? For instance, we both know the popular pastor's wife who says God healed her of cancer. Do you believe her?
The point is that God's children are not complaining about not having or seeing miracles. They say that God is a miracle working God. You are the one who is skeptical about it, not them. If you need a miracle to believe God, Jesus and millions of believers will simply tell you others did not see and yet believe and are blessed. Clear?

Macsjebs:
The guy no dey tire for argument

Could you spare a minute to see my thread, perhaps, u may be willing to get one or two stuffs just as many other Nairalanders did and posted reviews: https://www.nairaland.com/5376666/french-designer-oil-perfume

May God Bless you tremendously and reward your efforts to win Souls for His Kingdom

I believe, one day Samuel with give his life to Christ eventually and your efforts over him will yield results by the Grace of God, Amen

Amen brother, thanks for the extended offer as well.

kingxsamz:
I understand that I hurt your feelings, hence your tears and frustration, but don't worry you'll be fine.
Old man wey no get better thing to do than to stalk someone everyday.
Cry more bro.

You don't hurt me like you do your parents, remember them. They are praying for you. THINK and abstain from nonsense posts.

kingxsamz:
Imagine being so frustrated that you have to stalk someone everyday. Don't you have a family to attend to?
Omo, you go cry tire.

Keep deceiving yourself after the one your father has deceived you. You will continue to receive sense as long as you talk nonsense on the forum.

LordReed:
You'll not give your child food because it's not a guarantee that your child will love you. You'll not take your child to the hospital because it's not a guarantee that your child will be obedient to you. Such a parent will be arrested and the child removed from their care cos they obviously don't know what it means to be a parent.

Children of God know themselves na. Are you a child of God again?

kingxsamz:
Not surprised your frustrated self would come here looking for me to quote me 10 times.
Bask in your tears bro.

Don't need to look around for you Samuel, make mummy stop weeping over you.

kingxsamz:
...
Good point, but no be your bible talk say make women marry their rapists?

All women?

LordReed:
Yes I think I am special enough for special visitation. I am unique and another me will never come to this earth again.

Every living thing can think same duh, you overrate yourself.

LordReed:
There is nothing like higher animal. I am a unique combination of star dust that will never be repeated on the Earth so yes I am special. My uniqueness is fully rooted in reality, I don't need fairy tales to know I am special.

You don't know how special you are obviously. If you knew, you would not sell your soul for crumbs.

LordReed:
Simply put and properly rephrased, it is a request for the reason why these things are not happening.

How many times do you have to be told this. Miracles are not guarantees of people loving God or going to Heaven or pleasing God. Ask Moses followers to the Corinthian church. You should stop asking the same thing at intervals.

kingxsamz:
And a virgin woman giving birth to a Super human who can fly and walk on water.

Jesus Christ was not super human, neither did He fly as a man. Your comprehension is very pathetic or you are thoroughly deceived.

kingxsamz:
You're right, but you and I would both agree that the belief of a Middle-aged white man in the clouds, who created man from dust and woman from ribs and sent them out of his garden after a talking snake convinced a woman to eat a fruit sounds more ridiculous than believing that fossils date back millions of years. I mean, it's not as if these believers of Science erect buildings, carry mega phones, forcing people to believe and threatening them with eternal punishment.

Could almost bet your sorry self will be here moaning. You so much want God not to exist, eeyah. While real evolution doesn't remove the existence of God, most of what you usually and hopingly jump at is sham. Physical science should not require so much faith, there's too much faith wasted here. Get real Life.

Greatomotoy:
Sir, you are confusing your self
I was taught and made to believe same thing you believed till a lady asked me why Jesus said the days will be shorten because of the Elect Sake?
I had to go back to the Bible

Christians are thinking of Rapture instead of getting prepared for the Anti Christ and the Great Tribulation

You should have asked the lady if Paul and Peter are part of the elect.

Poor understanding abounds here largely due to the presence of false teachers. The rapture is being mixed up with the Second Coming. Anyways, be ready for the two. Many are not ready for any but shouting what they were programmed with.

kingxsamz:
Omo this thing dey pain you sha.
Maybe you have comprehension issues that you don't understand what "CAPSLOCKED complained" means. cry more abeg.

Have you shared the testimony with your mum? Her prayers are not totally in vain.

kingxsamz:
Nah, it just shows how frustrated you are.
Same thing CAPSLOCKED complained about.
Imagine logging in and seeing 7 mentions (all rants) from one person. Tell me if that's not frustration.
Omo you go cry tire sha.
You can keep wasting your time typing. Your tears will always go unanswered.

Keep laughing then, it's an answer to your mum's prayers.

kingxsamz:
Lol, people keep asking, how will you raise your kids? What about your kids future? Clowns. You don't need religion to raise kids. If that were the case, most Nigerian folks would be morally upright.

But you blindly argue that a child will follow the parents religion, remember? The irony is that you forget yourself in the assertion.

kingxsamz:
Says someone who quoted me 8times out of frustration. You really are trying too hard. Rest!

You complain that i mention you, i don't. How clear do i have to be for you to comprehend? Where did you do primary school for God's sake? Your problem seems foundational.