₦airaland Forum

shdemidemi: I am not quite sure of what you mean by the emphasised statement bro. Are you in any way saying 'faith in God' (through Christ) came to help us keep the law of Moses?

Yep sir. However, i meant the law of God, not the law of Moses. Grace enables us, helps us in time of need. It helps us to do the will of God. It was impossible to do the will of God as all their righteousness was as filthy rags before God in the OT.
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Luk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luk 1:73 The oath which he swore to our father Abraham,
Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Today, we can live in victory, a victorious life is that that overcomes the world, the devil, temptations and does the will of God.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

ayoku777: @Alwaystrue

I understand your view point very very well. You believe Christ came to show us how to obey the law of God the way he intended. That we couldnt keep the law as perfectly as God wanted, so the Father sent Christ. But thats not true.

People kept the law. The young ruler said in Matthew 19v20 -ALL THESE THINGS HAVE I KEPT from my youth up. Paul also in Philippians 3v6 -touching the righteousness which is in the law, BLAMELESS.

So people kept the law and obeyed it perfectly. Paul said he was blameless. In other words if it was a demand in the law, it was kept by Paul. He had no loophole. He loved the Lord with all his heart, he loved his neighbour as himself, he didnt bear false witness, he didnt covet his neighbours whatever. No blame by the standard of the law. Yet he counted them as dung v8. We don't need Jesus coz we couldnt keep the law perfectly, we need Christ coz the law was a shadow of Christ and His love. Jesus doesn't help us keep the law perfectly. He is the reason we dont need the law again. People kept the law perfectly and were still imperfect before God.

For by the DEEDS OF THE LAW, there shall no flesh be justified in his sight (Romans 3v20 and Gal 2v16 and Gal 3v11). Whether you obey the law or not, it wont justify you. Coz it was a shadow of Christ and his love. If i hand you something, you cant receive it from my shadow.
The law cant justify us at all. We dont need Christ coz we couldnt keep the law, people kept the law. We need Christ coz his love is the reality of what the law presented in shadow pictures.

This is the part you're finding hard (i wont say impossible) to agree with. That we dont need the law again is far fetched to you.

Jesus is our example. Jesus Christ obeyed the law of God the way he intended, and we ought to walk even as He walked. People did not keep the law, they couldn't. In fact, that was the whole of God's purpose in giving the law, to show man that he could not keep it. Man still thinks that he can somehow manage to. God shows that we need to depend on Him.
Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Jesus said NONE of them kept the law. The testimony and verdict of God is that there is NONE righteous, not one. The young ruler THOUGHT he kept the law and was asking Christ if he was lacking. Christ in His omniscience simply pointed him to his weakness, showing that he was lacking. He couldn't keep all the commandments. Christ's disciples had left ALL as it were, but if they had asked Jesus what they lacked, He would equally have shown each of them areas where they were lacking. There is always one thing needful, one thing lacking in each person. But we press on toward the mark of the high prize, in His strength not ours.
Paul was a false witness and a murderer for instance.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Act 6:13 And set up false witnesses , which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

He was blameless touching the righteousness of the law, that is carnal ordinances of washing, being clean or unclean, sacrifices etc. What some call ceremonial laws. In the eyes of man, he was blameless but not before God or in his heart.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
God knew it from start that those folks could not fulfill all the law. Jesus was the one who came to fulfill the law.

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

We are redeemed from the transgressions that were under the first testament because we cannot fulfil it. We transgress it. All have sinned.

Candour: my bro, that scripture(Gal 3:24-25) specifically mentioned the law as school master. Are you saying the law can be used interchangeably with covenant? My understanding is that the law was only a part of the covenant. It wasn't the whole covenant. The people keep the laws and God releases the blessings. That contract of do this and i do that is the covenant or you don't think so?

Yes, the law was our schoolmaster. The phrase "the law" varies in meaning depending on context. When we say "the law", we do well to also note what law. There is a certain "the law of the Spirit of life" too. The phrase "the law" was broadly used in the Bible to refer to different scopes like the commandments of God, the Pentateuch, the whole Old Testament Bible, the books of the Bible not termed Prophets, the ordinances/levitical laws. Galatains uses the phrase freely to mean the "works of the law".
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Notice that chapter 2 how he starts of with "the works of the law" phrase and ends his point in verse 21 by referring to it as "the law". Righteousness or justification does not come by the law, that is, by doing the works of the law. Its the similar thing in chapter 3. He starts off with the "works of the law"phrase and later uses just the phrase "the law" to mean the same thing. 2v16 and 2v11 are saying the same thing, but he used the phrases interchangeably.

Like you rightly said, the law was only a part of the covenant. It wasn't the whole covenant. The people keep the laws and God releases the blessings. That contract of do this and i do that is the covenant This is what i tried to explain earlier. The law was not the covenant/agreement. The covenant was IF you people keep my law THEN I will do this and that. The NEW covenant/agreement is based on faith, IF you believe, THEN this and that. God promised to write His laws in hearts instead of stone. God's words do not pass away.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
This is what happens to God's laws in the new covenant. Here it is again, repeated to the Hebrews. The Hebrews thought that the christians were teaching otherwise. Today, many of us are mistaken like the Hebrews.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

DrummaBoy: I needed to state my position so that my response to what other have written can be better appreciated.



This is not particularly correct. I had shown you in another thread that the Abrahamic Covenant can only be likened to the New Covenant in Christ in the sense that both of them were accessed by faith (alone). The Abrahamic covenant was ratified by physical Circumcision (Genesis 17); The New Testament is ratified by Jesus blood. If the covenant is the same as the Abrahamic covenant, we would need physical circumcision. Paul wrote in the Galatians that you refered to that we do not come into the New Covenant by physical circumcision. So with all due respect, sir, you are wrong in this: The Abrahamic covenant is not the New Covenant. You need not take such a position all in the bid to justify tithing like Abraham. (just in case that is the reason you are propagating this error).

As Bidam has said, the Abraham's covenant was not by circumcision. The covenant in question is the initial covenant and it is what produced Christ the seed.
Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You cannot exactly separate it as Bidam said. You come into it. See the below.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Gentiles were strangers from the covenant. They had to come in, be grafted in. It is not the same as the new covenant but it is very valid. Paul discusses at length in Galatians that Jesus is the seed being really talked about here.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Alwaystrue: @Image, I will draw you back on this. Has the condition really 'gone'?
If people fail to heed the voice of Jesus today as God testified in Deuteronomy 18 or obey the Holy Spirit or keep the new convenant (I will help you will and do God's pleasure), will the conditions still be binding? Hmmmmn.

My sister, you're too much. God bless you for "drawing me back", and asking for clarifiation/questions. i was referring to the conditions of the Old Covenant. The conditions were that man should obey God to be holy, to be acceptable, to inherit life as it were. Today, the conditions are that we have faith in God to be holy, acceptable and have life. He that believeth has life. Of course, we still obey God, but we are obeying God to be holy or acceptable or saved. Our zeal and tears and works cannot make us holy or saved or cleanse our sins. It is like the man asking Jesus what more he needed to DO to be saved. There is nothing we can DO in that sense to be saved or inherit life. That is why Jesus simply took the man to his weak point. All that is needed is faith, but after faith, after salvation or justification or being made holy. We are to continue in good works.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them
Hope i'm clearer now?

DrummaBoy: The text below is taken from my blog: http://www.yesufu..com/2013/10/the-gospel-of-jesus-christ-part-5.html, The Gospel of Jesus Christ (Part 5):

Today, the church is again weighed down by laws but not necessarily the laws of Moses but our inability to distinguish the Old Testament from the New. The church today takes much of it examples for Christian doctrine and practice from the Old Testament rather than the New. Thus, the priestly order of Aaron has been conveniently converted to a league of Men of God. Rather than submit to the admonition of Jesus that says we are all brethren (Matthew 23:, we find it easier to have ordained Pastors and Bishops, who hold such authority in the church and cannot be questioned but must be revered. Any tendency to question these men, we are referred quickly to the Old Testament again were God placed a curse on those who dared challenge Moses: “touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm”. We forget quickly that the people of God in the New Testament have been made priests and kings unto God (Revelation 1:6).

This fascination with the Old Testament extends to the church’s preoccupation with buildings. The temple in Jerusalem was the symbol of the Jewish religion. Today, the church building occupies an equal place of relevance. And regardless of the cost of building and maintaining it, the church building has become our symbol of religion too. It is this Old Testament mentality that informs tithes and offerings collected in church services; thanksgiving; child and property dedication; Sabbath observance; full time ministry; mass choir; anniversary celebrations, a queer belief that God dwells in church buildings and a host of other similar practices. None of these can be traced to the New Testament churches led by the apostles of the lamb.

Paul’s contention with the Judaizers of his time was not just because they practiced circumcision but because he was trying to ensure that the gospel and the church life that will emerge from its preaching will not be adulterated and thereby loose its potency. God meant for the church to be distinct from Israel and that distinction is not to be confused. Paul preached the doctrine of dispensations (Ephesians 1:9; 3:1-11).

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself (Ephesians 1)

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:... (Ephesians 3)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrew 1)

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1)

A mystery doctrine that teaches that even though God never changes, He has instituted certain changes all through human history to bring about His eternal purpose of redeeming humanity to Himself. This doctrine is a mystery in the sense that it was not revealed to Old Testament Israel but to the apostles of the Lamb, who in turn taught it to the church through their epistles: and therefore the distinction between the Old and the New Testaments.

We have three dispensations that can be subdivided into two each. These are the Theocratic, Christocentric and Eschatological dispensations. The theocratic dispensation can be subdivided into the age of the gentiles and the age of Israel. The age of the gentiles will range from the time of Adam and Even, through Abraham and up till the time the nation of Israel came out of Egypt. The age of Israel will be from the time the laws were given through Moses until the time Jesus was born. Then we come into the Christocentric dispensation that can be divided into the Hypostatic Union and the Church age. The hypostatic union is the time when Jesus was born, through his earthly ministry and up till the time he died on the cross. It called hypostatic union because of the unique union of the God-man found in Jesus Christ. It also represent a unique time in the dealings of God with humanity when grace and law operated at the same time. The time of Jesus must be seen as a separate dispensation because that is the only time in history when God dwelt amongst men and it is the dispensation that makes other dispensation relevant.

Then we come into the church age, which is the dispensation were we live in the present time. It ranges from the time Jesus died on the cross up till the time when the church will be taken away in rapture. This dispensation is not characterized by the laws of Moses but solely by grace. The teachings of the apostles, particularly that of Paul, are what theologians like to call Church Age doctrines. These doctrines are particularly designed to be taught to the church: for the equipping and perfecting of the saints until we all come to the full measure of maturity in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 4:12-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17). After rapture there shall be the eschatological dispensation that is subdivided into the time of tribulation and the millennial rule of Christ. When we understand dispensations, then we can understand the seeming discrepancies in the teachings of Paul and Jesus Christ. Jesus operated in a time of law and grace. He fulfilled the law and bequeathed its righteous requirement to the church. Paul taught that the church is no longer under the laws of Moses but under a new law that commands us to love God and men.

Drumma, just a few comments on your post. We need to note that though we are all brethren, we have elders and we have offices in the Body of Christ. We all have need of one another but we do not all do the same work. We are not all foundation in the building. Some are like curtain, some furniture, some roofing, some gadgets, some plumbing work etc. And elders that rule well should be counted worthy of DOUBLE honour. There are some people that we OBEY and that are our rulers in the body of Christ. Yes, they are not to lord it over us or oppress us, but they are little shepherds and bishops under the control of the Great Shepherd Jesus Christ.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

ayoku777: Yeah, thats exactly the heresis that is not being addressed. That the covenant has changed from old to new but the terms and law of the old is still what is being used under the new. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Hebrews 7v12 -for the priesthood being changed, there is made of NECESSITY a CHANGE also of THE LAW.

Everything has changed. From old covenant to new covenant. From aaronic priesthood to melchizedek priesthood. From obeying laws to being spirit led. From keeping commandments to walking in love. And from works and self effort to grace and faith.

Everything changed. We need to stop trying to mix the two. Its like talking with my shadow when i'm right in your face. The law is the shadow of love.

Great to see your comments. The terms of the old covenant are not still the terms under the new. The terms of the Old covenant was that IF the people obeyed God, THEN they will be holy and peculiar and acceptable, and the people agreed to the terms.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

The terms of the new covenant are that IF we have faith in Jesus, THEN we will be holy and peculiar and acceptable. This is justification by faith.
Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

God's Word and will have not changed. Nobody can keep all of God's words, there is no one holy as He is. But by faith and by His help, we can press on toward the mark, not to be made righteous. We are righteous by faith in Jesus. But as we get light from God, we put off some things and put on some things.
Of course, we still keep God's commandments.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
All of God's laws are summed up or summarised into One, love. But you cannot truly love without keeping God's commandments. Love is the keeping of God's commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(GNB) If you love others, you will never do them wrong; to love, then, is to obey the whole Law.


Obeying God is not the new agreement or new covenant. The new agreement is that IF we believe/have FAITH, we will be saved, holy, just. It is after this justification that we obey God by trusting in Him. This is grace, that at Christ's expense, we are made righteous and peculiar. But it is through faith.

Mark Miwerds: Yes, i am blind.

Attached is a picture of me, taken by my wife. (Who helped me put it on the internet too)

Woah, sorry about that. There's nothing God cannot do though. Have a nice day.

DrummaBoy: An adequate response:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfeDi5E16P0

Thought it good to say one or two things on this video as well. BTW, the video is just a summary of the usual antitithe argument in about 12minutes. The name of the antitither here is Cornelius Simon. His take is that antitihing came after him or something like that. His views are the quoted below.

1. Abraham did not pay his tithe, he gave his tithe out of increase from spoils of war not necessarily out of income.

1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.
1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

The scriptures uses the words "pay" and "give" interchangeably with tithing both before the law and during the law. The Bible talks of Abraham, Levites and Pharisee giving tithe. It also talks of Abraham paying tithe. Here are some of the passages below.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Num 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer a heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD's heave offering to Aaron the priest
This last Numbers passage is referring to the tithe that the Levites give to the priest. Antitithers like to ask it as paying 1% to the storehouse. As it is seen here, whether you say give or pay or offer or whatever grammar you use. What matters is that you took a tenth of the whole to honour God.

2.Jacob vowed as a condition to give tithe, it was not mandatory.

This is the same point that most tithe preachers make. Most tithe preachers will tell us that tithing is not to be done as under the law, but like it was done even before the law. In the New Covenant, nothing seems to be mandatory, though like i would love to say, all things are. Its an oxymoron of sorts. Prayer is not mandatory, Bible study is not, giving is not, yet they are. All things are lawful for me, but i am not brought UNDER the power of any.

3. Tithing was of land, therefore blacksmith or accountants and those not farmers were not required to pay tithe.

This remains an unprovable assumption. There is no scripture that denies anyone the privilege of tithing to God or any form of giving. In fact, the Leviticus passage in question was trying to "grab as much as possible" for the Lord if i can use that phrase. It was outlining things that could be redeemed, that would not be given mandatorily. The tithe was irredeemable. Animals were irredeemable, you could not change them, you could only add to them, even if you felt they were not the best or healthiest. Everything devoted was holy unto God, not just land produce. If one reads the whole Leviticus 27 in proper and full context, you would see these things and the aim of the passage, instread of blindly talking about definitions that are not there.

4. We need to practice tithe in totality, that is buy strong drink etc with tithe.

No one stops you from practicing the tithe in totality, or obeying the Word of God. Who has hindered you. What i know is that no one is 100% there yet. The little we can do on our journey to perfection, we do. There is no need to discourage others and point them critically to only the parts that they seem to have missed it. Remove the log in your own eye. It's like seeing someone who studies scriptures and prays fervently but does not give. Its okay to encourage such to also give. But what antitithers do is discourage the person from praying or studying, telling him that he has failed once he did not also give. Meanwhile, they do nothing like the hypocrites in Jesus'days.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5. There is no mention of the word "tithe"by paul the man in all his writings. Therefore tithing has been replaced with giving.

i do not believe that a particular instruction has to be in every book of the Bible before it is obeyed. Paul himself said that all scripture is inspired by God, not just his writings. All scriptures are profitable for instruction in righteousness. Jesus Himself said that "Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. "
Tithe is a tiny aspect of the law of God. There are weightier and more important things to harp about than tithe or no tithe(Matthew 23.23). That the average antitither takes tithe practice as the alpha and omega of his faith does not mean that God sees it that way.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

6. Something is wrong when we feel guilty if we do not tithe as there is now no condemnation to Christians.

Total rubbish. This is the new age gospel and doctrine. That we should be driven by feeling, that if you feel good it is good, it is bad to feel bad. This is rubbish. A christian should feel bad if something went wrong, this is not condemnation. If i told a lie, i would feel guilty. It is not wrong to feel guilty. Sometimes, i feel guilty if someone asked me for help and i could not render it, but i do not feel condemned or unaccepted by God. That is very different. Even sometimes, if i correct someone, i might feel guilty, even though the person was wrong. There is nothing wrong with this. A beggar might ask you for money and you did not give him/her, and you feel guilty. Its okay to feel guilty, christians are not sadists. If i'm late to church or i miss church(even legitimately), nothing wrong if i feel guilty. But i'm not condemned. Folks should learn not to just mumble things up anyhow. Feeling guilty that you did not give tithe is not the same as being condemned. It just showed that your conscience felt that you did not do something good, you have a sensitive conscience in that area. Its up to one though, one may choose to deaden the conscience. i've seen people who initially felt guilty cheating others for instance, but overtime they got used to it, and can even defend themselves for cheating others. By and by, logic and points and arguments do not end, the whole duty of man remains to fear God and keep His commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Mark Miwerds: Rules out those of us who are not qualified to engage in a physical war against kidnappers such as Chedorlaomer and his cohorts were. My blindness prevents me from going to war, the Army will not put weapons in the hands of the blind.

for real, just curious. Are you blind?

Mark Miwerds: What 'The Two Tithing Systems" is, is pure manipulation by a deceitful minister.

He claims those two systems are

1. Abram's tithe before the Law
2. The tithe under the Law.

He says we are not under the Mosaic Law, but that we MUST tithe in order to honour God and receive "the blessing" from God. That, my friends, is pure manipulation. We're not under the Law, but must tithe in order to be blessed?

He said that when we honour God or give to God, God blesses us. i did not hear him say we MUST tithe in order to honour God or must tithe in order to be blessed. Kindly point to the part where he said so, which of the videos or minute?

Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

With his much fair speech, Creflo causes his congregation to yield; with the flattering of his lips, he forces them to believe his deceptive and erroneous doctrine.

If anything, it is you and your ilk that is causing divisions and schisms contrary to the doctrine that God's people have learned. You are the type to be avoided. You are the ones trying to deceive the hearts of God's simple sheep.

Mark Miwerds: I have been listening to the entire sermon that Creflo Dollar preached. He is slick, to say the least.

Early in the sermon, he tells the congregation that the sermon is not about money, but about honour.

Stop picking and choosing as you do the Word of God. The man was very clear to state the context. He wanted to speak, not just about money but more importantly about honouring God. he referenced Joseph being refered to as blessed/prosperous even as a slave, when he had nothing. He said trhat your stuff/money/property is not what makes you blessed. He talked about people honouring God when they wanted to get married. There was nothing slick or manipulative about it, he was very explanatory and clear.

He goes from 1 Samuel 2:30 to Proverbs 3:9-10 to the Garden of Eden.

Trying to turn that one tree into God's tithe. (as if there were only 10 trees in the Garden) And he works his message in such a subtil way, that the congregation does not even realize it when he says "This sermon is not about money."

you are being deceptive here. He did not equate the one tree in the garden as the tithe as you are insinuating here.

Then, he goes into Abram's tithe (the first tithing system) to Melchizedek. He fails to tell the congregation that Abram did not even tithe of his own property, but of the property of Bera, king of Sodom. Abram wouldn't even claim the property as his own. He did not see it as his own. He did not see it as "his increase." Yet Creflo makes it Abram's increase.

Abraham tithed of the spoils of war, not of Bera's property

Video 8, Creflo says that Melchizedek released "the blessing" AFTER Abram tithed. Yet, the Bible tells us Abram received the blessing BEFORE he gave tithes to Melchizedek. And the people in the congregation must not be reading their Bibles, for they are all "amening" Creflo's deception.

Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

'And', not 'Then' is the preposition(abi na conjuction dey call am) used in the passage. "Then" is more suggestive of the sequence, "And" is not that suggestive, so there is no rigid sequence to be followed. It is however normal for a man of God to bless people when they receive something. Even little me, if someone gives me 5naira, i will bless the person. It is not out of place that Melchisedec blessed Abraham after he gave him tithes. It is also not out of place that Melchisedec blessed him before he gave tithe. But the scripture was not as specific as you would want it to. Notice how specific the next paragragh is, noting that it wasn't initially written with verses and chapters.
Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Again, he tells the congregation it is not about money but about honour. Then immediately goes into the spin of money again. Do not be deceived... the message is about money.

You forgot to inform us that he talked about Abraham and Jacob both giving tithe 500 and 250 years respectively before the commandment of tithing. Instead, you try to make us think that Creflo was bringing people to the law. He said the actions was about their love, honour and appreciation. Try not to twist the context.

Mark Miwerds: 1 Samuel 2:30 Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

How does a Christian honour God? Is it by placing himself under the rules and regulations of the Mosaic/Levitic Law? Or is it by walking and living in Christ?

Galatians 3 should answer those questions.

There is really no need to run off tangent. It is quite simple. If you honour someone, you respect the person's words. If you honour God, you read and obey His words. This is what Mr Creflo was saying, You honour God by honouring His word, by not being ignorant of God's word.

Creflo Dollar, in his video, “The Two Tithing System”, said, “This foundation (honouring God) is the key to the progress that we see…”

For the Christian, subjecting oneself to the Law is not progress… it is deterioration. We are supposed to advance in Christ.

Like you quoted, honouring God is the key to progress. The man says nothing about subjecting oneself to the law or being unfaithful to Jesus. He said to obey God. You also mysteriously ask "Why walk in disobedience to the truth,.... Why be disobedient to Jesus Christ?" This is what Creflo advocated for in his message, obeying God's Word.

Creflo Dollar quotes the Bible to ask the question: “If our foundation be destroyed, what can the righteous do? Good question! The problem? What foundation is Creflo trying to build upon? Jesus Christ? or the Mosaic/Levitic Law? The foundation for the peoples pre-cross was the Mosaic/Levitic Law. This side of the cross, however, is built upon a different foundation. Unlike the Law, our foundation is sure. Our foundation is the truth that Jesus is “the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”

The foundation he was talking about in the message was the Word of God, obedience to God, honouring Him. He didn't try to build on Levitical law.

One cannot mix truth and error and expect the truth not to become error. This is what is happening in so many Churches today when they place themselves in subjection to any part of the Mosaic/Levitic Law. This is what is happening in Creflo's sermon from the two videos. While there are many truths contained in what Creflo said in the videos, those truths are tainted with error and become error because Creflo mixes in the command given to Israel and Israel only in a foolish attempt to deceive the hearers into subjecting themselves to a part of the Mosaic/Levitic Law.

And Paul, writing under the inspiration of God, says, “God forbid!”

You seem to be the one doing the mixing. Anyone that watches the two videos would be amazed at where you got all these stuff you were on about.

Pastor Kun: @Image123
Stop spamming this thread with your lies that agric produce was the main measure of wealth or increase in those days. The bible records as far back as genesis that Abraham was rich in Gold and silver. We also know from historical records that gold and silver was a major means of exchange(money) in those days. So if money was meant to be used as tithe, it would have been clearly stated so as money was in existent as far back as genesis.

i did not say that people did not have gold or siver. Kindly re-read what i said more carefully. BTW, do you spend gold and silver today or what is your point? Do you know the meaning of money at all?
Anyway, i think i'm done here for now. Let me go focus on more important things.

Bidam: After you and your friends have insulted us and called us all kinds of names. You are now saying this What a shame.SMH!

ohhhh Bidam. You should know these people by now na. They are only setting a trap for the man. Do you for once believe that kunle and his like are not saying believers should not tithe? That must be a miracle. they would stop at nothing with feigned words to deceive others. thank God for His grace on our lives.

kolidave: Well ur rite buh that is for God to judge Isn't it? Just keep doing ur own and the reward will be great

i'd advice that you ignore them. they are not going to be satisfied with this your stance. Never mind their lip service that they are not after you. they will not rest until they try to disturb and distort your stand. May God continue to bless you and give you grace.

Candour: You didn't finish quoting from Deuteronomy. See the full version.

Deut 14:22-29
'Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. [23] And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. [24] And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: [25] Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: [26] And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, [27] And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. [28] At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: [29] And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

That is the full gist. How do we account for the portions in bold?

Do you eat your from your tithes? If you don't, you don't fear the Lord. The bible said so.

Also the fatherless, widows, strangers should also get your tithes says the book. Do you do this?

Don't be manipulative. The full gist is that there was the main tithe that was to be given and not eaten. Anyway, i know you folks by experience. You will stop at nothing until you confuse folks and make them doubt and feel dissatisfied. The devil used this same tactics on Eve since long time ago.

Candour: Tenth of what?

You seem not to appreciate the use of the word "simply". Tithe is one part of something. The other nine parts are the rest of the whole.

Neh 10:38
And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the CHAMBERS, into the treasure house'

The tithe of tithes is what eventually gets to the chambers, treasure house or storehouse and it's 1% of the tithes of Israel. Is it the tithe of tithes(1%) you are asking folks to pay?

It's simply a tenth of the whole, whatever the whole is. God was talking to the whole nation, He knows best.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
He later told them that all nations will call them blessed. He was not having a clan or tribal meeting, He was addressing the whole nation.

wait until i do. then you can point it out so i can correct myself. You want me to stop pointing out Oyak's lies or yours? If you guys stop the lies, then i'll have nothing to accuse you of again.

You are yet to point out any lie. You said pastor Chris was capable of lying, i simply reminded you that you are also capable.

Christ is the truth and its not in dispute. Are you begging me to spam the thread again? If you wish to see it, you know where to go. I'll post it soon again anyway so you might want to wait for the new posting.

Kindly show me where pastor Chris said tithe was of the law. You can simply post the sentence or the paragraph where he said so. i'm so glad i didn't miss Jesus the truth. Your thought was/is that i always miss the truth. Your thoughts are far away from God's though.

i can assure you that Christ would be grossly disappointed with your penchant for closing your eyes to the truth in the word of God

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

And i tell you 2Cor 16:1 is scripture, not just some empty words from crooks making merchandise of the children of God.

My bro, you're the one dribbling the word of God since this discussion started. i wish you could stop.

You said you do not take directions from men of God. Stop dribbling.

Don't you think you should search the scriptures to find out which tithe he refereed to?

After you'll point accusing fingers of dribbling God's word. Go to Leviticus 27:30-33 and read about God's holy tithe since you don't know it.

God's holy tithe indeed. Which one is God's unholy tithe? Is Genesis no more part of the book of Moses? Is it not part of the book of the law? Have you not read that every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD, not just crops and animals? Talk about searching the scriptures. Are Abraham and Jacob's tithe not in the Bible? Did the pharisee not give tithe of all that he possessed?

No wahala bros. since tithing is like prayers, going to fellowship, reading the bible etc. Then every Christian is at liberty to do as he chooses or you don't think so? after all there is no specific prayer format, fellowship format or bible reading format. So why should tithe alone have a specific format of pastor collecting it?

You are one of those trying to make sure that tithe should be a specific format, no?

Yes my bro. Just wanted you to know that a refusal to give what you call tithe doesn't mean non tithers don't give. Once again, i'm glad you realize and know that.

Jesus knew the rulers of the temple in Jerusalem were rogues who devour widows houses. He commended the widow doesn't mean he encouraged other widows to do so. Jesus asked rich men to sell all they had and give to the poor. How come he never asked any of them to take it to the temple? i know why: because he knew the thieves there would devour everything. Even when Zaccheaus made his vow, he left the temple out because he knew they were crooks like he was before he met Jesus.

If Jesus couldn't trust the temple officials with the wealth of the rich, is it that of a poor widow he'll want them to administer? She thought she was giving to God because it was meant to be offerings for God but crooks in gowns and head gear were waiting to consume it because they had turned the temple to a business centre and a den of thieves. God was no longer there

Jesus didn't encourage it, I won't too.

More dribbling. i think i'm becoming a real source of temptation making you do all sort of dishonest dribblings. i'll have to give you some slack on this issue. Let me not kill you finally.

You're trying very hard to twist this 1Cor 16:1-2 but it just refuses to be twisted.

So we can assume some in that congregation gave tithes and some gave other proportions right? Some might have given 20%, some 5% and some 70% but immediately somebody gives 10%, it means he gave tithes right? And those who refuse to give 10% don't honour God abi?

Can we then infer that every and any 10% proportion is a tithe?

There is no twist, the passage clearly talks of giving in proportion. Some folks say that christians should not give in proportion or percentage, like that even makes any sense. Folks would rather be senseless in order to discredit tithing. 10% is a tithe, a tithe is a tenth. This is basic junior secondary school maths.

Even as i work in my office, i should do it like i'm doing it unto the Lord. That is the correct context in which the verse you quoted speaks. In eating, in playing, in working not only in giving. Pls don't narrow the context to fit your idea.

A lot of rubbish and old wive's fables that i had to delete BTW, as they have no relevance to anything. We give as unto God, not unto men. Giving in church is in proper context with whatsoever you do. There is no inclination or attempt at narrowing the verse.
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

No wahala. I wont flog this issue with you. I can't argue with the passage you quoted up there as i wont want to twist scriptures.

There is a sense in which i used it for the Pharisees and it was to show them as people who do things simply for their works to be seen and applauded of men.

Simply take correction and move on, no need for all this story.

ok.

Next time, no need to lie that i said that i've been trying to win arguments for over four years.

You and your likes make horrible claims about tithes on NL. One of the worst claims on this tithe issue is that pastors are the priests after the order of Melchizedek. That is the height of blasphemy making pastors equal to the saviour.

That is not only making a claim, that is blasphemy.

Tithing in not Christian in whatever form. Giving in any measure you wish is.

Tithing is a form of giving. Christians are not equal to the Saviour but they are His brethren and priests under the priesthood of Jesus who is a priest after the order of Melchisedec. Are you a priest? What is the order of your priesthood?
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren

We are talking about tithes specifically my bro. Do you advice people to treat it the same way they treat sabbath for instance, at their discretion?

A christian is free to tithe, pray, read the Bible, go to church, give alms, love etc.

Zikkyy: .....and the point i was making was that tithe as support for temple workers was announced after God claimed the Levites for himself. It's possible Moses could have adopted a different approach to sustaining firstborns for example their family members can sustain them, especially if their family entitled to a share of the land. We don't know, so don't assume.

The Bible was so clear about it, there is no need for all this rigmarole.
Numbers 18.21
(BBE) And to the children of Levi I have given as their heritage all the tenths offered in Israel, as payment for the work they do, the work of the Tent of meeting.

Zikkyy: I know you said among other reasons, and am telling you that belonging to the tribe of Levi is the first consideration. if you serve in the temple and you are not a Levite (don't see how that is possible anyway), you don't get the tithe.

Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation

The Levites got the tithe as a people reserved for a particular purpose, it does not matter whether you are already rendering that service or will be able to render the service at a future date or if you are retired.

2 Chronicles 31:14-19 (NIV)
14 Kore son of Imnah the Levite, keeper of the East Gate, was in charge of the freewill offerings given to God, distributing the contributions made to the Lord and also the consecrated gifts. 15 Eden, Miniamin, Jeshua, Shemaiah, Amariah and Shekaniah assisted him faithfully in the towns of the priests, distributing to their fellow priests according to their divisions, old and young alike.

16 In addition, they distributed to the males three years old or more whose names were in the genealogical records—all who would enter the temple of the Lord to perform the daily duties of their various tasks, according to their responsibilities and their divisions. 17 And they distributed to the priests enrolled by their families in the genealogical records and likewise to the Levites twenty years old or more, according to their responsibilities and their divisions. 18 They included all the little ones, the wives, and the sons and daughters of the whole community listed in these genealogical records. For they were faithful in consecrating themselves.

19 As for the priests, the descendants of Aaron, who lived on the farmlands around their towns or in any other towns, men were designated by name to distribute portions to every male among them and to all who were recorded in the genealogies of the Levites.

Well, i was not talking about which one is first or which one is twentieth consideration. i simply stated that the tithe was given because of the work they were doing in the temple and i gave two Bible verses that say that. You are free to have the last word. i'm done with your tithe babbles for this period. i have patiently answered all relevant questions posed on the thread. All the skipping and shifting of goal posts, you can have fun with, thanks.
i'll look through the page to see what other comments need to be made.

Zikkyy: You still don't get it. Being agric economy did not stop trade. we know the Israelite engaged in sales and purchase of goods and services. Some Jews worked and earned salary/wages but not required to tithe. In fact farmers sold some of their agric produce but they were not required to tithe from sales or profit. tithe was taken directly from harvest before you go to the market. Just like the Israelite economy, we still produce (agric plus industrial) but you guys tithe profit after making sales or you tithe salary. Tithe of old was from what we classify as asset in modern day accounting. The owner of Toyota will tithe a tenth of what comes out of production before sales you see you are getting it wrong. it was never about the money. see evidence that Israelite traded or earned salary below....

Nehemiah 13:15 (NIV)
15 In those days I saw people in Judah treading winepresses on the Sabbath and bringing in grain and loading it on donkeys, together with wine, grapes, figs and all other kinds of loads. And they were bringing all this into Jerusalem on the Sabbath. Therefore I warned them against selling food on that day.

Deuteronomy 24:14-15 (NIV)
14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. 15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

Tithe is a tenth of your income, your increase. The major economy or source of increase in Bible times was agric produce. Every family had to be involved in agriculture. They all lived by seedtime and harvest. It is only the lazy man that was not into that.
Pro 20:4 The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing.

Even in some rural areas today, you still find this kind of thing. Whatever the family may be doing, they will have land/farm and animals that they rear. It was more intense in Bible times. Their need was food, clothing and shelter. They all had shelter as God gave them an inheritance and cities. Their food and clothing was from agriculture. the whole family was usually involved. That was their increase and their blessing. The average man was not after accumulating shekels but after cattle and big barns. It is so different today. Look for any rich man in the Bible, you would see that he was rich in agric produce. It was their sweat as it were, it was their daily bread. Today, we can also give tithe of our daily bread, whatever it is. God does not refuse it so far it comes from His children.

Zikkyy: You still don't get it. Being agric economy did not stop trade. we know the Israelite engaged in sales and purchase of goods and services. Some Jews worked and earned salary/wages but not required to tithe. In fact farmers sold some of their agric produce but they were not required to tithe from sales or profit. tithe was taken directly from harvest before you go to the market. Just like the Israelite economy, we still produce (agric plus industrial) but you guys tithe profit after making sales or you tithe salary. Tithe of old was from what we classify as asset in modern day accounting. The owner of Toyota will tithe a tenth of what comes out of production before sales you see you are getting it wrong. it was never about the money. see evidence that Israelite traded or earned salary below....

Nehemiah 13:15 (NIV)
15 In those days I saw people in Judah treading winepresses on the Sabbath and bringing in grain and loading it on donkeys, together with wine, grapes, figs and all other kinds of loads. And they were bringing all this into Jerusalem on the Sabbath. Therefore I warned them against selling food on that day.

Deuteronomy 24:14-15 (NIV)
14 Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns. 15 Pay them their wages each day before sunset, because they are poor and are counting on it. Otherwise they may cry to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty of sin.

Tithe is a tenth of your income, your increase. The major economy or source of increase in Bible times was agric produce. Every family had to be involved in agriculture. They all lived by seedtime and harvest. It is only the lazy man that was not into that.
Pro 20:4 The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing.

Even in some rural areas today, you still find this kind of thing. Whatever the family may be doing, they will have land/farm and animals that they rear. It was more intense in Bible times. Their need was food, clothing and shelter. They all had shelter as God gave them an inheritance and cities. Their food and clothing was from agriculture. the whole family was usually involved. That was their increase and their blessing. The average man was not after accumulating shekels but after cattle and big barns. It is so different today. Look for any rich man in the Bible, you would see that he was rich in agric produce. It was their sweat as it were, it was their daily bread. Today, we can also give tithe of our daily bread, whatever it is. God does not refuse it so far it comes from His children.

Candour: Are you aware of the tithe done every three years? do you know tri is a prefix meaning 3? I expect you to know that tri-ennial means every three years.

Meanwhile, you exaggerate when you say you teach Deut 14:22-29 because you don't. If you don't contest it, why don't you practice it? or that part of the bible is unprofitable for you?

You are free to check up either the second or third page of this very thread. i taught Deut 14. 22-29 there. i've always said that there are at least three types of tithes found in the Bible. It is antitithers like kunle especially that like to act like they are the same, by asking the gullible to eat their tithe.
Stop making unnecessary insinuations about what i do and do not do. If you have reasonable questions, ask them instead of falsely accusing me fallaciously.

Can you show where Moses included storehouse in the tithe law he gave to Isreal? be kind to point it out for i can't find it. The first mention of a storehouse for tithes is found during Hezekiah's time as king of Judah

2Chr 31:11-12
'The Hezekiah commanded to prepare chambers in the house of the LORD; and they prepared them,12. And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated things faithfully: over which Cononiah the Levite was ruler, and Shimei his brother was next'

Solomon built this temple but with no chambers for tithes until Hezekiah's time. This became the practice that followed the Jews into captivity in Babylon and reenacted during Nehemiah's time.

Its so clear that i find it amusing you could miss it.

you are imagining a change only in your head. the Bible clearly states that the people wanted to keep the word as Moses gave it. You said no, they changed it.
Neh 10:29 They cleaved to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

Storage was not novel before Hezekiah. When agric produce are collected, it is common sense that there would be a place that it was stored. That a certain passage mentions it first does not COMPULSORILY mean that it is the first time. The people in Moses time sure had stores/storehouses. The storehouse/store or barn is what can also be called chamber. Its just a room for purpose of storage. No hard and fix rules about it.
Deu 28:5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
Lev 25:22 And ye shall sow the eighth year, and eat yet of old fruit until the ninth year; until her fruits come in ye shall eat of the old store.
The above scriptures show that storing things was not alien in the time of Moses. When Solomon built the temple, he built it with chambers. Chambers were in the house of God at his time too. Chambers are simply rooms, it is not a new discovery by Hezekiah.
1Ki 6:5 And against the wall of the house he built chambers round about, against the walls of the house round about, both of the temple and of the oracle: and he made chambers round about:

You do not have to read or comprehend so mechanically.

Neh 10:37-38
'And that we should bring the first fruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the CHAMBERS of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the LEVITES, that the same LEVITES might have the TITHES in all the cities of our TILLAGE.38.And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the CHAMBERS, into the treasure house'

That's the reference again. Kindly explain verse 37 since you don't agree with my explanation.

Also pls note that every mention of tithe in the bible except Abram's tithe and that of the Self righteous Pharisee in the gospels always mentioned agric products only despite the fact that money had been in operation hundreds of years before Moses.

Agric produce was the main economy and increase in those days. The verse 37 for instance does not mention livestock. But they know that they were to tithe of all their increase even if Nehemiah does not say it. They had the Bible that said it. Even pagans knew what the tithe was, it was simply a tenth. The occupation, economy and riches of the common man in Bible days were measured mainly on agric produce not in naira and kobo or shekels. If you see rich men in Bible days, their riches were vastly from cattle, sheep, barns. It is not like today. We do not have to be so rigid like the pharisees were about the sabbath, and they thought Jesus was breaking the sabbath.
Most times when God talked about blessing or punishment, it was usually linked to agric produce as well, fruitfulness, rain, pests, diseases. It didn't mean that non-farmers(if there was actually anyone like that) were excluded from the blessing or the punishment.

Abram's tithe was not to just any minister but to Melchizedek who we all regard as a type of Christ. Is your pastor a type of Christ? Is your pastor your priest? If you're a Christian, you have one priest and he's in heaven right now and sure doesn't need tithes there.
Jacob's tithe was a vow contingent upon God performing a part of the bargain. I'm sure you wont tell us this is your format.

Christians are types of Christ, i thought that was the very meaning of the word "christian". Christians are priests in the priesthood after the order of Melchisedec. Jesus is our High priest. An high priest has priests.
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
There is nothing wrong with Jacob's tithe or format. The point is that he gave tithe of all God gave him.

Lev 27:30-33 perfectly defines God's tithe but is silent on who receives it. If you can find the receiver there, pls show us. thank you

So its God's tithe but you insinuate that you do not know who receives it? Are you just making arguments or discussing? In Bible study, there is what is called TOPICAL STUDY. That is, studying a particular topic , looking at all the places that that topic is found in scriptures. That is the normal way to do topical study. Its abnormal to say one scripture is the right and approved one, and that the others are not. Genesis talks of tithe, so do other books. One is not more right than the other, they are all together, completing and complementing the other.

Num 18:26-28
'Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.27.And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress.28.Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD's heave offering to Aaron the priest.'

From the above, It's clear LEVITES own the tithes of the children of Israel while the PRIESTS represented by Aaron own a tenth of the tithes which translates to 1% of the tithes of the children of Israel.

Which of these two offices is being occupied by your pastors today? Levites or Priests? i will say none.

Will you tell me you still can't see a difference between these tithes and the caricature practiced in churches today?

There you go again trying to force us under the law's format. The law is just a type a shadow. All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for doctrine and for instruction. You are not God to force people to what they must do. Folks have a personal relationship with God and their tithes and offerings are accepted. It is not your place to disapprove.

Thanks a lot. Try and apply to be a MOD so you can effect the rules. Whenever you feign ignorance of the truth of Malachi, I'll ensure Oyaks devotional is on hand to remind you.

i do not need to effect the rules, i simply reminded you of the rules. As a christian, you should be responsible and mature enough to obey them.

Candour: Gal 3:24-25
'Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.'

Can Image123 or another of the brethren kindly the explain the scripture above with respect to the old and new covenant?

Thanks in anticipation.

In referring to the law, the writer is referring to the Old Testament or Old Covenant. Like i've tried to explain, the Old Covenant or agreement was that of justification by works. That IF you do this and that, THEN you will be holy.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

The New Covenant or agreement makes us Holy, justified and accepted without works. We are made holy by faith and justified in Jesus.

Back to Galatians, notice how he uses the term.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Notice how he uses both the "works of the law" and "the law" to mean the same thing.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Notice also the phrase "before faith came". Faith here is referring to the New Covenant/agreement. That we would be justified by faith. It is not referring to the gfeneral faith. Moses had faith, Abraham had faith, Hebrews 11 show us that OT folks had faith. Faith here is in reference to the new Covenant and agreement of justification.

So, the Old Covenant was our school master, When faith(the new covenant) has come, we are no longer under the Old covenant. The Old Covenant taught us that we could not keep God's commandments on our own. That we had to depend on God, have faith in Him.

ayoku777: The Law is the shadow of Love. Jesus said in John 13v34 -A NEW COMMANDMENT I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

If Jesus calls love the NEW COMMANDMENT, then which one is the OLD? Obviously, its the Ten commandments and the the other ordinances under the law. And if He calls love the new, it means the law and love are not the same. Love is the consummation of the spiritual realities of the shadow of the law.

In other words, if you have love, you don't need the law. If you still need 'Thou shall not commit adultery' to not cheat on your wife, its coz you are not walking in love. If you still need 'Thou shall not bear false witness' to not lie on your neighbour, its coz you are not walking in love.

And how do you walk in love? By being led of the Holy Spirit. Romans 5v5 -the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. When you're led of the Spirit, you will walk in love.

Meditate on this passages:
Romans 3v19 -Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law.

Galatians 5v18 -But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 3v12 -And the law is not of faith but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3v25 -But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The Holy Spirit doesn't help us keep the law, he helps us walk in love (the new commandment). The law is a shadow of love.

Ayoku, thanks for the input which i largely agree with BTW. However, i am referring to the New and Old COVENANTS, not COMMANDMENTS. The new commandment is not actually new anyway.
1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
All the commandments are encapsulated in this NEW commandment, that's why it is not actually new. But no problem sha, if you maintain it is new, i understand and even agree with your perspective on that.
Gala 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Zikkyy: @bolded, these are instructions and part of the agreement. If you take out these instructions, there will be no agreement/covenant.



What is gone is the "thou shalts" contained in the agreement. i.e. the terms of the agreement. It went with the agreement/covenant.

zikkyy, the thread is aimed at everyone of us having a clearer understanding of the covenants. There is no need trying to find holes or start arguments. i said The covenant or agreement is that IF man obeys God's words, he will be peculiar, justified and holy before God.

@bolded you don't keep the covenant, you keep to the terms of the covenant.

You would have to ask God for clarifications for that one oh. He said.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

i believe that what is gone majorly is the condition, not necessarily the commandment. The condition of the covenant, the agreement was that IF God's words were obeyed THEN they would be.

Zikkyy: You will only end up embarrassing yourself if you continue down this route. I already showed what he meant by set percentage. It has nothing to do with me agreeing that proportion is ratio.

You forgot to show what he meant by "regardless of how it is required". This is the phrase i made bold.

Paul did not determine the % of giving. he allowed each person to determine their %. as you have been blessed (giving in proportion to your prosperity) is not a fixed 10%, or 20% or 30% or 90%. Some may have given 20% or even 3% and some may have given 0.2%.

We are saying the same thing ithink. Some may have given 10%. mark said Christians are not required to give a set percentage regardless of how it is required. i simply showed where some christians were told that they MUST give a set percentage. It could be 10% or any other % from that passage.

Zikkyy: Neh 10:37-38
'And that we should bring the first fruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the CHAMBERS of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the LEVITES, that the same LEVITES might have the TITHES in all the cities of our TILLAGE.38.And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the CHAMBERS, into the treasure house'



This was the tithing promise made by the Israelite (in compliance with the law). This is something for joagbaje to consider. The jews were never required to tithe cash, it was always about agric produce.

As has been severally explained, the economy of that time is so much different from now. In those times, their riches was in agric produce. That was their major income and increase. It of of this increase that they gave tithe. Today, our major increase and income is usually money. This so basic that even a child gets it. It is when theologists begin to give us fables that folks that reconstructing their thinking and ideologies.

Zikkyy: The man listed three type of tithes and you asked which of the category Abrams tithe belonged. My view was that Abraham's tithe is not in any of the three. Abraham's tithe is Abraham tithe, simple. Nobody saying your tithe falls into any of the three category mandated by God, in fact it is tithers that been trying to prove their tithe belong to category 1 as defined by Omo-Awori. Any literate reading tithe discussions on NL should know this. You know very well i have been saying that there is God's tithe and there are tithes. i never considered your tithing God's tithe so don't worry your tithing does not fall into any category mandated by God and it does not even belong to a tithe category found in scriptures. Yours is a creation of man, for the use and benefit of man.

You conveniently forget that the man talks about only 3 types of tithe as the only types of tithe in the Bible. He forgot about Abraham and Jacob and i was trying to ask him or remind him until you came out as big brother trying to protect him from reason.
It is not just tithe that is holy unto God, every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. i have devoted my tithes to God. Mind your own business.
Lev 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

It's possible you did not read your own post, so let me report below....



You told us the purpose of tithe was to support the people that serve in the temple and you said at a point it was the firstborn that were serving in the temple/tabernacle. my need for clarification: did the firstborn served in the tabernacle and was tithe used to support them. Please clarify.

The first borns were supposed to serve in the temple. They were replaced by the levites. The point i made was that the purpose of the tithe was to support the temple workers irrespective of tribe. The tithe was given them FOR/BECAUSE of the temple work.
Num 18:31 And ye shall eat it in every place, ye and your households: for it is your reward for your service in the tabernacle of the congregation.


Num 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

You have not shown how the purpose of the tithe was to support people serving in the temple/tabernacle (or temple workers).

Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation

They get the tithe first for belonging to the tribe of Levi. Read your quote above..."And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel".....every Levite don't serve at the temple at the same time. They got the tithe even when they were not serving in the temple. Serving in the temple was not a prerequisite for receiving the tithe, being a Levite was. and the tithe was an inheritance, not just a form of support. Did God reverse his will concerning the tithe? if he did not it is very wrong of you to give God's tithe to anybody other than the Levite.

The scripture is very clear, i gave two again above. i said among other reasons, here is one reason why the tithe was given. There was another tithe given to neighbour levites, and another one shared with family and neighbour levites annually.

Candour: Your tithe thesis is a pack of lies and rightly described as such. I'll keep bringing Oyaks devotional to your remembrance whenever i suspect you're forgetting what Tithe really is.

Tithe is simply a tenth.

I'm Happy for you

Okay.

Malachi said all 'THE' tithe which indicates a definite article. the writer was referring to a specific thing well known to his audience. So what is 'THE' Tithe Malachi was referring to? Spoils of war? Farm produce? Proceeds of corruption? What is 'THE' tithe he was referring to?

If you need help from a dictionary to define 'THE', i could oblige you

Yes, THE specific is the main tithe. You know that there were some other tithe meant to be given at home to neighbour levites, strangers and co. There was another one meant to be eaten by the individual and his neighbours IN Jerusalem/Shiloh. The main one is the one referred to, and it says ALL. Never forget the ALL.

wait until i do. Then you can point it out

Oh, so you do have capabilities of telling lies. Fine, so no point of your reminding us that others have that capability.

As you always conveniently miss the truth even when its staring you in the face

Jesus Christ is the TRUTH, i'm glad i didn't miss Him. i'd gladly miss other irrelevant and inconsequential truths. Kindly show me where pastor Chris said tithe was of the law.

very convenient again. Pls Keep on loosing it

Would Jesus be happy with this stance?

So what did your man Of God command you to do bro? submit 10% so he can help you be at peace with God? We're talking of Scriptures penned by the apostle to the Gentiles and you are trying to compare him to your thieving pastors of today?

Whenever your pastor's words appear in scripture, bring his commands to me so i can obey them

Keep pretending not to know there is a difference between what Abraham paid as tithe and the charade you do today. Abraham gave to Melchizedek, whom do you give yours to today? Go ahead and make fun of yourself by saying pastors in the order of Melchizedek. I've read that somewhere before.

You said you do not take directions from men of God. i only showed that it is not unchristian to take direction from men of God, and i quoted 1Corinthians 16.1. Stop twisting and turning like its soccer. This is the Word we are discussing here.

Abraham gave tithes of ALL spoils of war, non from his farm. Malachi asked for God's holy tithe of all Land produce as prescribed in Lev 27. Tell me you still don't know there is a difference?

Sorry, Malachi makes no such difference. It simply states ALL THE TITHES.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
It didn't say anything about some holy tithe.

Good. So you Agree Abraham had liberty to do or not to do? You also agree Jacob's was a voluntary vow he made himself to do abi and no evidence that he even did?

Pls IMAGE123, Go ahead and do with your funds as you like. I heard Rockefeller or one other rich man even gave 90%. Pls you can even copy his style or do as you deem fit. Its your prerogative but don't come to NL and preach it as Christian doctrine. Also tell your friends on NL this truth so we can stop these arguments

That is what everybody has been telling you for the past 4 years

There is nothing wrong in my shedding light on why i tithe or why a christian can tithe. i have consistently said that i do not force anyone to tithe or do anything, even prayer, going to fellowship, reading Bible etc. You are not everybody so you do not have the capacity to tell me what everybody has been telling you for the past 4 years. Stop throwing words into the air.

Good you clarified the bolded. Really i don't encourage poor people to give all their savings like the poor widow. If they insist, it's theirs so i wont stop them. i'll commend their sense of sacrifice but i wont encourage them to do it.

Only a wicked person will encourage such a disadvantaged person to put into a treasury administered by religious thieves and rogues like the rulers of the Jerusalem temple.

Oh, good that i clarified that you lied? You said "Just refrain from saying non tithers don't give. Its an untrue statement." i never made such a statement but you told me to stop making such a statement. i simply pointed out to you that i never i never made such a statement in the first place.
Again, you have proven what i earlier said so why the initial dribbling? i said it that YOU Candour cannot encourage people to give like the widow Jesus commended. You initially said that it was the type of giving that you encouraged and i said no. And you were arguing. Well, thank God, you have accepted. Really you don't encourage poor people to give all their savings like the poor widow. You encourage them to do it.
i do not think Jesus is a wicked person BTW. Jesus thought it was the offerings of God. He didn't think about religious thieves and rogues. In a similar way today, we give as unto God, not as unto men.
Luk 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

I wont have a fit my dear. I'll give all i have because it's for a very noble cause. To feed hungry and destitute saints at Jerusalem. Only a wicked man will refuse to give to such a cause when he obviously can give. Also because the apostle who mouthed that is a VERY CREDIBLE WITNESS of the gospel, i wont even question it. He's very much different from the charlatans you run after today.

Okay, no problem. Remember it that you said so anyway. i do not know about any charlatans that you run after. i do not run after any BTW.

How does proportion in that verse become tithe? i really need you tell me how proportion became 10%

Did i say that proportion in that verse means tithe? Why do you need me to tell you what i never said? i said people can give in proportion and i gave a Bible verse where people were directed to give in proportion. Tithe is a type of proportion, no?

That is the lie crooks in the pulpit tell people to get their money and use it for grandiose and immoral living.

God didn't collect it from her, the temple rulers did. That she cast it into temple treasury doesn't mean God collected it. God isn't cruel. He doesn't collect the little the poor has, rather he feeds the poor but thieves will devour the entire living of widows.

Jesus didn't collect from the multitude, he fed them instead. It's those that had means that sustained Jesus, NOT THE POOR

You have real issues with a sharp tongue. Well, i'm not talking about crooks, i'm talking about God. Oferrings given in church belong to God and God acknowledges our offerings. We give as unto God, not unto men.
Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

He said it once at baptism to encourage John not to feel unworthy to baptize him, not to make 'fulfilling all righteousness' our christian manual. I expected you to see this

It's the pharisees that run their religious lives just to fulfill all righteousness. I'm a Christian. I'm spirit led. I don't do things just to fulfill all righteousness. If you do, good luck with that

There is NO passage of scriptures that talks of pharisees running their lives to fulfill all righteousness. The Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that. i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel. There is NOTHING wrong in fulfilling all righteousness. Do not trifle it as "just". Fulfilling all righteousness is NOT what pharisees do, it is what Jesus did. And we ought to walk even as He walked.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
It's sobering that you do not see this.

He didn't say it becometh ME to fulfill all righteousness.
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh [size=13pt]us[/size] to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

You said you've been at this discussions for over 4 years despite all the truth you've been shown. What else would that be other than trying to win an argument?

Well, i didn't say that i've been trying to win arguments for over four years.

Tell me what Tithe as you preach it and as Oyaks wrote is if not a CONDITION and OBLIGATION? If you truly believe we are not bound by any particular percentage, then what is this discussion for?

A Christian can give 100% to a worthy cause if the spirit leads him to. He shouldn't give a dime in response to a so called law preached by a crook in suit. If he does, he's serving men not God.

The discussion is about you and your likes making ridiculous claims in the attempt to make sure that people stop tithing. Again, if you do not want to give the tithe, no wahala. But stop making spurious and unverifiable claims.

So pls preach your tithe as you would sabbath, burnt offerings or circumcision today. Abraham did at least three of them and God even observed sabbath himself.

i'm not a preacher, thanks. However, i discuss the Word of God the same way.

If you make a vow concerning what you give every sunday, its your choice. Other Christians don't make a vow for their givings every sunday, let them be.

You brought in that verse to confuse the issue. It has no relevance to what we are discussing here.

To confuse what issue. i simply showed you that freewill was also a command in the OT. It is possible for one to give the tithe frewill like i do.

lastmessenger: Only you understand what you are up to and why what i wrote is a boomerang.believe it or not, few people change things on this earth and rest are led like sheep.there is nothing wrong with being led like a sheep if that is someones choice.i dont have problem if u are fan of 10% giving and of them that preach it.my only problem is that people should be made to know the truth to liberate them from their fears.

The point is that your view is not necessarily truth. There are good students of the Word and followers of God on each side. Nothing liberating about it. If you understand it the other way, no problem, no bi by force to give. But God has sent to one to "liberate" people from any form of giving done to Him. There are more serious issues that people need to be liberated from.

Like i said before,i am a christembassy member and pastor chris is my pastor and he inspires me alot but that doesnt mean everything he say is what i swallow.even paul said in one of his letters that we know in part and that we see through a dark glass.dont ever think these men we look upto cannot make mistakes.infact the Thessalonians church having heard paul preach went back to search the scripture, making judgement between what paul preached and the scriptures.thats who we are supposed to be and not to totally depend on what somebody is saying on the pulpit.all i am saying is this Oyedepo can be wrong,Pastor Chris can be wrong,Adeboye can be wrong.you will argue with me that they are getting result from what they are preaching on tithe,well anybody can get result from doing what he is doing(ask the Juju priest and they will tell their result).Research carried out showed that only 14% of American christains gave a little above 10% of their income(after all the shouting and preaching on tithing).

Of course, they can be wrong. i can be wrong and you can be wrong. Fortunately, they are not wrong on this issue. Its like using the they can be wrong premise to conclude anything. They can be wrong, therefore there is no God as they say. Its an absurd premise. They are not infallible, but they can be measured with what Jesus and the Word says. Jesus said of tithes that this ought to be done. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

My personal convinction is that the church will experience trememdous properity if they will drop this judaism practice called tithe.it is like a cancer and it is limiting us from enjoying the full blessings from God.

There is a book on the internet that i want u to read with an open mind.after reading the book and you feel that tithing is still ok for u then so be it.cheek this site www.tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing

Thanks for the advice and personal convictions and even link. i'll stay with the more sure Word of prophecy.

Candour: You're the one talking ignorantly or dishonestly here my bro.

Deut 14-28-29
'At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, a[b]nd shalt lay it up within thy gates[/b]: [29] And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.'

When this command was given, God expressly stated that the tither should keep this particular tithe in storage at his house and distribute to the LEVITE, STRANGER, FATHERLESS and WIDOW that are around him. As at the time Solomon built the temple, this was still the practice. However by the time of Hezekiah, the people had developed an apathy to the law completely because of the idolatrous kings they'd had so they were neglecting the law including tithing. This made Hezekiah to moot the idea of storehouses for tithes for the very first time in the history of Isreal thereby modifying the law of Moses(2 Chr 31:11-12) start from verse 4 to get full gist. This is the case except you want to tell us Hezekiah instituted a different tithe from Mosaic tithes all by himself. This became the new practice for the triennial tithe and it carried over into the new Temple after the return from exile in Babylon

Another attempt to inject spurious tales into truth. We are aware of, teach and do not contest what you wrote above. The spurious tales come in from the part i have colored green. What on earth is the triennial tithe? Hope it's not another bogus phrase to divert and obfuscate issues?

Neh 10:37-38
'And that we should bring the first fruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the CHAMBERS of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the LEVITES, that the same LEVITES might have the TITHES in all the cities of our TILLAGE.38.And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the CHAMBERS, into the treasure house'

This was what Malachi refered to and it started in Deut 14:28-29.

There is no change whatsoever as you insinuated. The people of Nehemiah's time determined to obey the Word as it was commanded during the time of Moses, they did not modify it. i do not know why you have that idea that they modified it.
Neh 10:29 They cleaved to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

You can even see in the reference that tithes only come from the cities of TILLAGE(i trust you know tillage refers to land cultivation?), in other words, farming cities. This proves again that tithes only come from farm produce.

No, there is no such thing seen in the reference. It seems you spuriously see the word "ONLY" in every tithe passage. Here is the phrase on tithes from the passage again. Try to note that there is nothing like ONLY in that reference.
"the TITHES in all the cities of our TILLAGE.38.And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God"

Oya go ahead and show us from the bible what other format was instituted by God for the administration of Tithes. I'm waiting bro. Open your bible and show us how else God wants tithe administered other than the format in Deut 14:22-29.

Deut 14:22-29 is one of the last passages that makes direct reference to tithe in the five books of Moses. Deuteronomy BTW is more of a rehash and summary of what has been previously said. Tithe was spoken of directly in Genesis, Leviticus and Numbers. In each of this books, the idea and the tithe talked about is the one that goes to the priest or the minister in the temple. It is in Deuteronomy that the other two popular tithes are talked of. Everybody already knew the MAIN tithe, that is, the 10% that leaves the individual's custody and goes into the minister's custody. Deut 14:22-29. and i think chapter 12 introduces two OTHER ones. Of this two, one is the one that you spend on yourself, family and neighbour levites IN Jerusalem or Shiloh annually as was supposed to be the case. The second of this other two is the one done once in three years AT home. These two are different from the common or main one that is given to the minister, which they store in the chamber or storehouse or whatever name. These two are what Deut 14:22-29 talks about in addition to the main one generally known. The tithe of Abraham and Jacob was not in this exact format and God accepted it. This is so plain but i expect your proud self to twist and turn yet.

You're the one giving me unsolicited compliments. I didn't ask for it neither do i need it. It's the business men on pulpits that equate boldness and charisma to the calling of God. I wish you could start telling them this truth. Maybe if i was crooked like them, i could have jumped on this your statement and go register a church. Naive and greedy people will surely find their way there for money doubling and i'll come here mouthing testimonies of how serving God translates into wealth untold.

The truth is truth whether spoken by a weakling or a general. All i'm doing here is telling the truth and i'll keep telling it whether you call it spamming or not

The forum rules call it spamming, not me. A christian should be responsible enough as to abide by common rules governing where he operates.

Alwaystrue: The Old Convenant
Exodus 24:7-8
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words
Under the old convenant, the people promised to do the will of God...Their doing was by human strength which is weak for they could not even will themselves to do good by flesh.


New Convenant
Matthew 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which [ratifies the agreement and] is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
In the New Convenant the Holy Spirit is poured out to all who agree to do and be obedient by BELIEF in Jesus Christ thus agreeing to do God's will but in this case, it is God who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure...Phil 2:3; John 7:38; Philipians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:3-4; John 12:44
We now have the teacher of the Holy Spirit to guide us in all the truth of God's Word.

Succint.