₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Lol.They ganged themselves as bands throwing tantrums and insult.Thus derailing and defeating the purpose of the thread.

Rules 2 and 3 are being broken with impunity with attacks on persons.May God have mercy on their souls jare.Best ignore folks who use fleshy emotions to argue in debates.

very apt. Imagine a person condemning a fellow human to hell.

ofisa247: I do think of it that- I came to this world for a reason, I found myself in Christ for some reasons. I won't blame atheists, neither do I pray for their destruction. We all need to pray for them (atheists) and also for ourselves -who believe in Christ Jesus. It takes only the Power of God overcome.
#Atheism is driven by supernatural forces.
May God have mercy.

Amen. It is however needful to add that atheists and such like are driven by a malfunctioned morality, not by logic as they would love to think. We do not rule out the devil driven factor anyway.

EMILO2STAY: actually i have nothing personal against you or the two other popular tithe supporters in this forum, but not just i, jesus said that liars like you and the rest of your likes are of your father the devil who started lying from the begining. It is not an insult call you a fraud, it is what you are, a liar and a deciever. You and the rest of the tithe proponent have been proven wrong over and over again, But instead of admitting the truth, you jump like a frog from malachi 3 to abraham giving a tenth of war spoils and now you have jumped into saying that tithe is a seed. When u sow ten percent you reap ten percent right?
Just know this, there are some people you just cant decieve. We are not all fools.

i understand that you're not subject to the word of God but can you try to be subject to the rules guiding the forum? That we disagree on a particular teaching or view does not call for insults. i'm not here to deceive anyone. i simply answer questions for clarifications and i often notice that such is achieved. The unfortunate thing is the average antitither pratice of engaging in CIRCULAR arguments, running from pillar to post, hole seeking, and resorting to mudslinging and unchristian behaviour.

EMILO2STAY: u should have written this to pastor chris when he said this; ''So you MUST give Him your tithes and your offerings, as God. Actually, you pay your tithe; you don’t
give it, as you would your
free-will offering. So your tithe is not a gift, because you don’t pay a gift.
Keep decieving urself.

Didn't really get what you're on about. Anyway, pastor chris is not here. You are here, i am here and the Bible is here. i think it better that we manage that than engage in unchristian and unprofitable sentiments.

aManFromMars: Maybe you will create another thread about me.

If the moderator(s) are like the other one that was sacked, why not?

The effect of this ASUU thing. Where are the moderators BTW?

Profemmy001: I agree with dat. So new born babies r nt sinners, ryt?

They are not sinners by deed, but they have the sin nature in them. God will judge every man according to their works.

Profemmy001: Wait...am i seeing double. Hw can u say God d father is a sinner nd nt fair. When did he encourage killing, stealing, lying

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

The guy is not a christian and has nothing important or any solution to offer you but confusion and backsliding.

EMILO2STAY: all you need to understand the bible is a good working brain and a conscience.

See why i'm trying to avoid all these theoloGISTS? Its like pouring water into a basket really, or like Jesus said casting pearls. No worry, i go get una time later.

aManFromMars: Na your pikin o, no be my own.

You're becoming boring to engage.

Profemmy001: then where. Expantiate!

Heaven. Jesus the Owner of Heaven said that Heaven belongs to their likes.
Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

9jadelta: so, if the baby dies some minutes after he/she was born, god will put him/her in hell?

No

Bidam: The Mosaic covenant is also called the sinaitic covenant.It was the covenant that established relationship between God and Israel.

I think the covenant is also a redemptive idea.i.e those who keep the covenant are are blessed(same as salvation), while those who do not keep it are cursed.Failure to keep on keeping the covenant results in being cut off (eternal condemnation). All of the OT Scriptures have shown clearly that Israel suffered because they violated the covenant. The remedy as found in all the prophetic writings was for Israel to return to God.

The New covenant came as a result of Israel failure to keep the Old. The old covenant became obsolete,thus the need for a new and better covenant. I believe God himself who is omniscient knew they couldn't keep it hence His promise through Jeremiah in Jer.31:31-34.

We as gentiles are grafted into the common wealth of Israel. Paul put it nicely by saying we are cut off from a wild olive tree and grafted into a cultivated olive tree.( Rom 11:24). So that means we are no longer under the sinaitic covenant but under the new covenant which suggest a new relationship between God and the believer.

The ground of the new covenant is the blood of Jesus and the means of entering into the covenant relationship is by FAITH in Jesus Christ.(Eph 2:8.). But faith itself comes through the word of God(Rom. 10:17),making the word of great importance.

Like i told them in the Malachi thread it is an error to say the Abrahamic covenant is obsolete. The Abrahamic covenant is foundational to all of Scripture. It is the key to both the Old and New Testaments and is foundational to the whole program of redemption. All subsequent revelation is the outworking of this covenant. This covenant, and the subsequent covenant framework, is the key to understanding Scripture.

Lovely, thanks.

Pastor Kun: Are you claiming not to be aware of God's exact instructions on tithing?

The Bible does not say ONLY those who produce from the land are to tithe, whatever that means. It says the whole nation was expected to tithe and claimed that those who did not were robbing God. Abraham gave a tithe of all, so did Jacob and so did the pharisee Jesus spoke of.

lastmessenger: A friend of mine needed 10k to settle some debt in school and i promised to give her the money.my friend believe in tithing but i dont.so i got paid for a job i did and the money was exactly 10k and i sent it to her.she desparetly needed the cash because time was due to settle the debt.she got the money and thanked me and went straight and settled her school debt.

I called her and asked if she paid tithe on the money that i sent to her and she answered 'no' and that she forgot.she said she would have paid if she remembered and i told her it means the money will not be enough to settle her debt and she said she believe God would have made a way.i simply asked her if it is not God that brought the 10k in the first place and she agreed it is God. i said if God brought 10k for u to use and settle ur debt why do u think He want u to pay him tithe of 1k and reduce the money.i also told her that if i had paid tithe on the 10k that i would have sent her 9k and by the time she pay her own tithe she would be left with 8k.

You see this is the burden that christ released us from when he died and ressurrected.i didnt worry about the devourer or the curse and that is why i gave a needy friend my money.GOD new what he meant when He said Christ has released us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us.indeed the law is a curse and am happy to be released from it and no man no matter how big he or she is will entagle me with the law
My church preach tithe and i dont care because i know better.am still facing intimidations of devourer and curse in church but i dont care because i know that all those devourer ish is nothing but a hogwash.if all Abraham did is an example for us to follow then i think we are in trouble but i thank God it is not so.

The idea behind the topic as i understand it is not to descourage people from giving money to church but all the op is trying to do is to release people from guilt and bondage.christains should be cheerful givers and not fearful givers.we should give not just to the church but to those in need.infact there is a special reward to those who remember the poor in their giving.give 1% or 10% or 20% or 50% etc as the spirit leads you and do it with joy but remember that he which sow bountifully shall reap bountifully.

I think i will stop here.i just hope i made some sense.GOD BLESS U ALL

You made an analogy, the devil also makes good ones all the time. Your friend does not need to tithe a debt BTW. And tithing is also a form of giving.

Kay 17: The implication is ?

That he grows with the adamic and fallen nature of sin and sinning, just lke a child with prticular sickness would.

Bidam: Yeah..very true sir, as i rightfully stated in the other threads where i saw all kinds of errors.

The Abrahamic Covenant continues today, it is the Mosaic Covenant which was broken and superseded.

1. The Mosaic Covenant is a different national covenant with many challenging stipulations(the Law) and a different sign (the Sabbath).

2. The Mosaic Covenant was broken by Israel (Deu. 31:16,20; Isa. 24:5; Hos. 8:1)requiring a New Covenant which was ratified in the death of Christ (Jer. 31:31-32; Luke 22:20).

Paul emphasized the distinctiveness of the Abrahamic Covenant from the Mosaic when he wrote to the Galatians.

You're stating that the Mosaic covenant is the Old covenant? i agree BTW. If you want to explain shortly, to say a child, or a new convert. What would you descibe as the new covenant, and as the Old covenant.
You did not define or explain the new covenant oh. You just said it is ratified( ) in the death of Christ.

opeano: 2 cor 3:13,14. Their minds was blinded. For unto this day, .......... But right now, the veil is lifted in christ jesus.. Since the atonement of sin done by christ was done, it heralded d start of a new convenant. Heb 9:18-22. . Old convenant thus mean d convenant made wt abraham and wt his kinds, d isrealites. D new convenant is d promise of faith made tru christ jesus that everyone who believes in him should b saved, not tru any form of blood sacrifice

Sorry, how do you arrive at the bolded. That is, Old convenant thus mean d convenant made wt abraham and wt his kinds, d isrealites.
Note that all christians are kinds of Abraham.

On the new covenant, i think the sacrifice of Jesus was a blood sacrifice. What do you mean by "not tru any form of blood sacrifice"?

Please, i do not mean to "harrass" you with questions. i do respect your opinions. i just want a clear and SIMPLE discussion on the covenants. Something that anybody can understand, like a child. Something basic, something straight forward.

Pastor Kun: Do you have any evidence that Paul was a farmer before jumping into the daft conclusion that he "paid" tithes cause as far as the law was concerned only those who produced from the land were required to tithe.

Hmmm, pulled right out of the nostrils i guess. What are the basis for this assumption, especially the bolded?

Back to square one. As usual, this are not necessarily questions aimed at understanding but at mockery and to catch people in their words.
[quote author=Omo-Awori]The questions I want to ask our pro-tithers:

1. According to the tithing principles, are the Jews still paying tithes;[/quote]What are the tithing principles? i do not know if the jews are still paying tithes, do you?

2. In the old testament are women, slaves (servants), widows, disabled and gentiles (foreigners) requested to tithe of their substances;

i do not know. If you know, kindly share using the criteria you stated in the last line.

3. In our present dispensation, are we being taught the right way to tithe, as according to the bible in the old testament, there are 'three types' of tithes;

There are many teachings, the question cannot be asked generally. People teach on everything almost, in different ways. Holy Spirit, heaven, Righteousness, Tithe, Baptism, Worship, Deliverance, Prayer etc. There are different teachings by different people. What we need is what the Bible says, not what people say. Let God be true and every man a liar.

4. Is tithing a form of 'giving', 'paying' or 'taxation' as specified to the Israelities.

Please be so kind to point us to biblical references, as we are all learning.

Yes it is. Whatever name you call it, that is just big english. If i like i can call it paying tribute to God, or giving tax to God. What matters is the motive and that God accepts it, and in no place condemns it.

Candour: Behold a preaching on tithes by a much beloved and respected pastor. It proves unequivocally that tithe is of the law laid down in Deut 14:22-29. It shows that tithing is not FREEWILL GIVING, it is a COMPULSORY OBLIGATION laid down in the law of Moses. Any assertion to the contrary is outright dishonesty and calculated to misleading innocent and naive Christians.

Also, the offerings mentioned in Malachi are not freewill offerings but the commanded offerings like burnt offerings, sin offerings, peace offerings, first fruit offerings etc laid out in the Pentateuch. No Christian should mistake it for the contribution of 2 mites by the widow to the temple treasury which is a type of what you and I do in church today.





Tithe is a command in the law of Moses. Its not freewill giving. Be not deceived. Start reading your bibles.

18. Don't spam the forum by posting the same content many times.

BTW, do you consider pastor Chris a much beloved and respected pastor, or you're just throwing words into the air? What Pastor Chris says proves unequivocally what you want it to prove. Do you agree with everything he taught in that article, or just what your ears itched for?

Mar 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mar 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Luk 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luk 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
If what the widow did is a type of what you do in church, you would not be complaining bitterly about giving 10%. She gave ALL she had, to church, a poor widow. You do not encourage that. Ah ah, you do not encourage that certainly Candour. That is not the type of giving you encourage.

Freewill giving is itself a command in the law of Moses. Be not deceived. Start reading your bibles.
Deu 16:10 And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

EMILO2STAY: leave those frauds like bidam, image123, joagbage and co. These people just like many of the popular pastors who run big churches in nigeria know exactly what they are doing, they know the fraud they teach they know the truth but will not preach it, because they are of their father the devil. when u watch the way they twist the bible you will know the truth is obvious to them but they choose to lie to lazy christians who prefer to read ovation magazine and news papers more than their bible. How can a pastor tell you to give God money so he can make u rich, guide and protect u and ur financies. And mature adult fall for this?...

You can try to pass across your points without referring to others as frauds and other such derogatory names. This are normal christian rules and also forum rules 2 and 8. Why do you have to say three forum christian members are of their father the devil? It's obvious you have more issues in social maturity and christian comportment.
Titus 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.

EMILO2STAY: oh! So u know this!, do u sow tithe? you actually pay tithe, you dont give tithe.

Do you sow anything? If yes, what, like give three examples?

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Num 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer a heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD's heave offering to Aaron the priest.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

You see, this is why i prefer to ignore folks who come in to give spurious 'testimonies' that they have learnt a lot on a thread. Then when one begins to interact with them, they take you to the beginnings again, and ask questions or make claims that have been done with already. It is pointless engaging in word jangles over give or pay. Abraham is said to have given tithe. In another place, he is said to have paid. The other two passages quoted show that when tithes are offered, they can be spoken of as either being given or paid. That's just blowing grammar. Other words that can be used include offer, present, devote, donate etc. It's the same tithe. If you observe, those other two statements are made 'under the law'.

debosky: I am also fully persuaded - I don't remember ever saying Malachi wasn't the word of God and truth.

You imply it when you do not believe Malachi 3v8-10. Do you believe Malachi 3v8-10?

If this is your opinion, I believe you are mistaken. Malachi's revelation was directly in reference to an earlier instruction described in the law.

The scriptures make no such distinctions. Tithes is tithes and offerings are offerings and acceptable to God, whatever the format or dispensation. That is, whether i am offering my heart or my song or my money or my animals or my crops, they are all offerings to God. However, the Word of God teaches which is more excellent and appropriate. It is same with the tithe, whether coming from Abraham, or myself or from Levi or Moses, the tithe is simply a tenth-10% of a 100% or whole, given to God. Moses never mentioned a storehouse when he was writing about the tithes and offerings. Both tithes and offerings are brought to the storehouse and belong to God. The New Testament calls them the offerings of God-Luke 21. The treasury is the storehouse and is referred to as the offerings of God. They belong to God. This is the position Abraham held, the same position the Israelites held, and the same position which i hold, that God has given me all things, and i give the tithe specifically to His ministers.

Those to whom it refers - the nation of Israel and the temple are those under law. If you consider yourself to be under the law, then that is your prerogative.

The book of Malachi and every other book refers to all. i will have to quote it again so that you see it.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living,
2Ti 3:17 so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed. -GoodNews.

It does not refer to only the Israelites or those under the law. The apostles never saw the scriptures that way, neither did Jesus. Among other things, Malachi also talks about marriage and God's will for marriage. It talks about John baptist, and about Jesus. It talks about God rewarding those that serve Him. It talks about the coming judgement. All these are not just for the nation of Israel. The last verse talks about coming to smite the earth with a curse. It would be foolhardy to bury the head in the sand, like an ostrich, and say stuff like Malachi is just for the nation of Israel. Thank God, at least, its not as bad as some who say it is just for priests.
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spoke often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

We cannot set aside a process for paying tithes and the specific offerings commanded by God to the Levitical Priesthood in the Temple and substitute that with anything we wish. If God wanted Christians to tithe (specifically non Jewish Christians) he would have provided clear instructions on how to do so.

It is not anything we wish. It is clear and plain common sense if i may use that word. The era of the levitical priesthood is gone. The order of the priesthood of Melchisedec is here. They both received the tithe and are both of God. The tithes belong to God, we give them to God through His ministers. This is what Abraham did, and what the Israelites also did. It is from this same wisdom of sustaining the ministers that Joseph applied the tax in Egypt to help sustain the economy.
Luk 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

No one is talking about logic here, however we cannot say we will disregard reading scripture in context all in the name supporting one's position.

fine.

[quote author=Demain_man]I am simply replying to your 'give and take' quote which is not what this thread is about. Nobody forces you to give your 'freewill' giving while on the other hand people are threatened by you pastors to give 10% of their wages using MALACHI that has nothing to do with money and you are here 'yarning' lies.[/quote]Kindly enumerate the lies. There is no need to engage in bearing false witness.
"Give and it shall be given unto you" or "Whatsoever a man sows, he will reap" apply to tithes and offerings too. Learn not to limit the word of God unnecessarily. Whatsoever means WHATSOEVER. Tithes and offering are a part of whatsoever may be sown. Tithes and offerings may also be given, and Jesus encourages giving.

[quote author=Demain_man]What has this your quotations got to do with tithe? Did the people against tithe tell you that they don't give? We are talking about the fraudulent stealing of people's money by pastors you are here quoting giving and sowing.

Ok. You sow 10% 'oya' reap 10%! Are you happy now?[/quote]What on earth are you saying? Did you not read the quote i responded to?

christemmbassey: do u av jn3:16? What did u sow or pay for Jesus? Its a shame dat sm ppl are worst than when thfy 1st came to Nl. So uptill now u don't know dat d gift of God can nt b bought or sold? Its a pity.

i'm not talking about salvation. Giving or tithing is not salvation, try to understand context and rightly divide the Word.

The baby was conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity. That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

What the law could not do, God sent His Son to do. That is to save us from sin. Anyone not saved from sin is still under the law. The law shows us the will of God and man's inability to fulfill it. The gospel presents God's helping us to fulfill His will.

with Jo on this, very apt.

EMILO2STAY: pls stop it, God never said any christian should bring any ten percent of his or her income into the church of christ. stop decieving urself to think God is a money doubler. The commandment is 'ask and it shall be given unto u' not give tithe and it shall be given unto u.

Ever heard "Give and it shall be given unto you" or "Whatsoever a man sows, he will reap". God is not mocked by ignorance and selective reading of His will.

Uche ernest: my brother, am nt a pastor, neither do i collect tithe, am a child of the most high God who obeys my father's instruction, my dad said bring your tithe into his house then he will bless me, protect my business and my household. Its 50/50, am to play a part then the he plays the other part.

Oh that? Kunle has deceived most antitithers into believing that anyone who tithes and knows the sciptural reasons is collecting tithes. The shameful part is that they've avoided the guidance and discernment of the Holy Ghost, and have brazenly accused many falsely using worldly wisdom and hero kunle worship.