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 Christianity Etc › Re: What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? by Image123(op): 1:35pm On Nov 12, 2013 |
What many fail to see is that the covenant is not God's commandment(s). The Old covenant is not "Thou shall not steal" or any of the thou shalts. Many of us tend to interpret it to be that. The consequence is that we become very confused and selective in understanding and implementing the new covenant. We're often like, the Old covenant is gone, therefore "Thou shall not steal" is gone. Or "Thou shall not kill", or "Honour your parents" or any of the other Thou shalts. Or even as someone opined above, tithing. The Old covenant is not Thou shall tithe or anything close to that. That is not the covenant, but a revelation of God's will. A covenant is an agreement, a contract, an understanding, a deal, a testament. Like we currently have the issue between the Nigerian Federal government and the Academic Staff Union over an agreement. The FG and the ASUU had an agreement, a covenant. Its not a commandment or a law, it is an agreement. The same way, God had an agreement, a covenant with the Israelites. BTW, this is not the first or only covenant/agreement God had with man. There had been agreements with Abraham and with Noah for instance. The agreement with Noah is along the lines that seedtime and harvest, day and night will not cease, and that God would not destroy earth with water. That's a covenant/agreement, it stands till date. God makes agreements with people. He made a covenant with David, He made one with Phinehas and so on. These are not what we refer to as the Old covenant. The Old covenant has the name 'Old' because it was changed, like the FG currently wants to change the agreement with the ASUU. So it is Old in relation to the New, not in relation to age (Noah's covenant/agreement is actually older). So, what was the Old agreement or covenant? It was simply that if man obeyed God's words, he will be peculiar, justified and holy before God. Note that God's words or laws are not the covenant or agreement. The covenant or agreement is that IF man obeys God's words, he will be peculiar, justified and holy before God. i'm like "Oh my God, oh my God, how can man sign such an agreement!!!". Its unfortunate really, man continues to think that he can somehow manage to obey or please God by personal effort. Its not just israel, people continue doing that. So, God knew man would not keep the agreement  but man said he would. Here is the agreement below.Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. The Israelites had come out of Egypt and were starting to 'settle' in their journeying. Then they came to Sinai, and God gave them this conditions, and they just signed it like the FG. People had knowledge og good and evil before this time. Abraham knew what was good and what was evil. So did Isaac and Jacob. They knew murder was wrong, they knew deceit was wrong, they knew it was wrong for a child to sleep with the father's concubine. This was all before Moses. Joseph's brothers knew stealing was wrong and they were afraid when they saw the cup in their possession. The children of Israel had an idea of what God liked and did not like. They knew laws even before God gave them any officially. Infact, just the previous chapter(Exodus 18), Moses had appointed judges who knew ordinances and laws and judged the people. Exo 18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. So when God comes with this offer, they were like "sure thing, we'll do it." They'd seen all the plagues in Egypt, they had witnessed a mighty deliverance and the parting of the Red Sea. They had conquered AAmalek without experience, Heck, they had manna and water from the Rock. To them, what could be more, they had all the experience. Here is their answer after Moses told them. Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD. Same chapter, the people were already having issues with keeping God's instructions. Exo 19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death: Towards the end of the chapter, god is telling Moses to go and stop the people from coming to the mount. Moses was so confident of his people he says "The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us". God was like go mr man. The chapters that follow, we see God giving Moses His words, among which we see the famous 10 commandments. At the end of this first batch, Moses comes to deliver the conditions, and the people agree once again. Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. This is the OLD agreement, the Old Covenant. That man would obey God's voice indeed, and keep His covenant, SO THAT man would be a peculiar people and holy before God. That is , if you obey Me, you would be justified. It is based on your works. This agreement was RATIFIED, using my brother's grammar with blood. The new agreement is also ratified with blood BTW. The Old was with the blood of animals, the new was with the blood of Jesus. The new covenant is that of faith, that IF one believes in Jesus, he will be saved and justified, seen in Christ. That is why Paul talks about reckoning. Let me stop here for feedback as it were. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 3:51pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
lol @ new found chief theologian. Na wa for two of you sha. You guys should stop increasing my folloowed posts with these jare. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 1:48pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
Enigma: OK, I have now watched the video. Although I am not sure what exactly you are referring to by "the truth he said in the videolinks", I am willing to take your word for it that he said "the truth". Ok, I will not challenge "the truth".  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 1:43pm On Nov 09, 2013 |
OLAADEGBU: The thread is about "Tithes and Offering," not just "tithes" or Individuals like Creflo Dollar. What did you have to say about the truth he said in the videolinks I posted?This is the issue oh my brother, the heart of the matter as it were. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 9:54am On Nov 09, 2013 |
Enigma: Bros, I am telling you the truth that each time my mind goes back to remembering that our friends are using Creflo Dollar in that way on this thread, I literally shake my head -- even in my privacy!Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 1:13 THIS WITNESS IS TRUE. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. This two passages show Paul quoting pagans and accepting wht they said as truth. i'm sure this pagans had differing views and opinions to that of Paul on different matters. One may even quote a secular personality like say Shakespere, Sepp Blatter, Obama etc if what they said is right. There is no need to promote sectarianism or gangsterism. We cannot all have the same views and understanding on any particular matter. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 9:09am On Nov 09, 2013 |
@debo, the post that i said that i made comment on Leviticus 27. https://www.nairaland.com/1189741/tithes-offerings/89#18872274 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 12:12am On Nov 09, 2013 |
Candour: False information is false information and your tithe thesis constitutes a false information and i will call you out on it whenever i chose. Keep calling it spamming. I know you hate the idea that Oyaks penned that devotional. Its not my fault he did bro. Go teach him Abrahamic tithe so he can be up to speed.By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming. You must be the only one who tripped over that statement. i'm surprised you actually think i have plenty affection for him. However it cost me nothing to clarify it.Thank you. Others may also be confused in future but thanks for clarifying. i saw the improvement on the other thread too, you are very kind. That tithing referenced by Malachi is strictly of the lawOh, that? Malachi mentions ALL the tithe. You should not bamboozle us to think Malachi limits it. Bring ye ALL the tithe, not "Bring ye strictly the tithe according to the law only" Of course not. He has the capabilities to tell lies too. I'm happy you know this and are not carried away.Do you have no capabilities to tell lies? He spoke the truth about Tithe as being of the law. A truth you have stubbornly closed your eyes to.He said this? i must have missed it. Mosaic law said tithing is compulsory just like sabbath(Saturday) and circumcision. Malachi re-emphasized that tithing is compulsory and Oyaks rightfully agreed. However it's not for me because i am not a disciple of Mosaic law. If you say it's for you, then be honest about it and call it what it is. A LAW OF MOSES not some FRAUDULENT PRINCIPLE. Also be honest enough to practice it as stipulated in Num 18:21-32, Deut 14:22-29. If you refuse to, you're subtracting from the law.Are you advicing me or commanding me? Sorry, i lost the context. You're the one that takes directions from Oyaks and other MOG, i don't. i'm only using his devotional to show you're not in tandem with his thought and his write up is consistent with biblical tithe you claim to follow.Oh, so you saw the inconsistency in your deductions? BTW, it is not unchristian to take directions from men of God. See this for instance. 1Co 16:1 As to the collection for God's people, what I have directed the Churches of Galatia to do, you must do also. Weymouth New testament. Churches of Galatia and Corinth took directions from a man of God. Tithe cannot be strictly of the law of Moses if people gave tithe before Moses' father was born. How do you continually manage not to see this plain truth? Abraham gave tithes ONCE [/b]from spoils of war to physical Melchizedek. Is this the pattern you follow?Thought you said that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham? Now, it is that it is once that tithe had something to do with Abraham? Its hazy, sorry. Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Abraham gave tithes of all, malachi says Bring all the tithe. You cannot shout that away. Tithing is a law and since you want to follow the law, then be honest enough to follow it the way God asked Moses to institute it.did Abraham follow a law when he tithed? Did jacob follow a law? Why must it be my own that you insist that i must follow a law? You're welcome. Just refrain from saying non tithers don't give. Its an untrue statement. That's what i tried to point out to you.i didn't say that non tithers/antitithers do not give. i said that you(Candour) do not encourage poor people giving ALL their savings to church, like the poor widow did in Mark 12v44. thank God for the bolded portion you did yourself, you can see it was STRICTLY for the POOR SAINTS. not some overfed pastor or Bishop. You can also see there is nothing called Tithe there? No matter how you twist it, proportion as used there means relative to what you earn. Not your Mosaic 10%. Like Zikkyy said above, it takes illiteracy to interpret proportion as strictly 10%My context was very clear. i showed you where a man of God mandated people to give. he said they MUST. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. you must put aside some money, You'd probably have a fit if you heard this live. 1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. 1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come. Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist. If its her decision to do so, why not? its hers giving to her by God and the administration of it is strictly her prerogative. As long as you don't cajole her or guilt her into doing so.It is the offerings of God. It belongs to God, not to pharisees. And God collected it from a widow. he had no problem with empathy and selflessness. In fact, He commended the act. Christ spoke that in respect of his baptism by John. It was specific. Must you force it into monetary considerations? If i am to follow your logic, everything we do in Christendom must be just to fulfill all righteousness abi? after all we'll be in perfect harmony with Christ? pls learn to rightly divide the word of truth.The Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that. i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel. There is NOTHING wrong in fulfilling all righteousness. Do not trifle it as "just". Fulfilling all righteousness is NOT what pharisees do, it is what Jesus did. And we ought to walk even as He walked. 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. It's sobering that you do not see this. If you wish to get likes for your post, start a campaign. i too would start clicking like for you. Likes on my post wont make me more righteous with God or cater for my needs so it's not a consideration. You're the one trying to win arguments and from your own lips, i learnt you've been at it for over 4 years. Tithe is of the law. be bold enough to accept this truth. all the MOG you respect and love admit to this truth. If you dont agree with them, be bold enough to say so.You learnt from my own lips that i've been trying to win arguments for over four years? You're the one rating love for God at 10% or what did you mean by saying i find it difficult to give to God because i don't subscribe to your 10% threshold. yeah there, i said it again.What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? i did not say that you find it difficult to give to God. i said that if what the widow did(giving ALL her living 100%) is a type of what you do in church, you would not be so bitter about giving 10% in church. It makes no sense to care less about giving 100% and be so tight about giving the tithe. This is not rating God, this is not rating love for God. As was Sabbath, circumcision and animal sacrifices which you mercifully don't subscribe to today.There is nothing wrong with them too. Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. stop trying to be smart. See the bolded portion. is your vow the same thing you drop into the bag every sunday? A vow is different from what you put into the bag every sunday. don't come here and pretend not to know there is a difference between a VOW and your sunday collections. This shouldn't be too difficult to be honest about na or is it?i still do not get you. What if i have a vow to drop into the bag every sunday? What is wrong with that? Why should a vow be different from what one puts into the bag every sunday? Is it so difficult to make a vow to put something into the bag every sunday? Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth Freewill giving is itself a command in the law of Moses, but we do it still today. God loves us when we give freewill. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 10:58pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: i not only read to understand, but I also study to understand.Feel free to add this to your impressive collection. GoodNews 1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. 1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come. International Standard Version 1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, you should follow the directions I gave to the churches in Galatia. 1Co 16:2 On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside and save some of your money[b] in proportion to[/b] what you have, so that no collections will have to be made when I come. It was so clear from my KJV before i saw these other ones. as God hath is a simple ratio. This is basic math. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 10:51pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
debosky: Again, I have never stated I do not believe Malachi 3v8-10 so how have you arrived at this conclusion? Malachi 3v8-10 is the word of God and truth - if my views were never clear, I hope they are now.It was never a conclusion. i asked Do you believe Malachi 3v8-10? You quoted it, how come you did not read it? If by ‘believing’ Malachi, you are asking whether I consider this as mandatory for Christians, then that is a separate matter.Here is the verse that you say that you believe. Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. God said that He does not change in the same chapter. Here is what i mean by believing Malachi. Do you believe that a man can rob God? Do you believe that a man can rob God in tithes and offerings? Do you believe that a whole nation can rob God if they do not bring tithes and offering? The latter phrase is correct, however specific passages refer to specific offerings and tithes. They do not stand in isolation, nor are they generic. Tithing in Malachi is a direct reference to previous instructions in Leviticus, so are the offerings, so is the reference to the storehouse. It is not a catch all, neither is it a ‘convert it to what you want it’ passage - it is specific.The point is that THEY ARE ALL OFFERINGS TO GOD. God accepts them, it is not for man to condemn what God accepts. The Bible NEVER talks about tithes being different. It talks of tithe as tithe, simply 10%. Abraham's tithe is a tenth. Malachi's is a tenth, Jesus's is a tenth, Number and co are tenth, mine is a tenth. This is what the tithe is. One cannot come tell us that it is numbers tithe that is real, the others are not. Malachi or any Bible verse does not tell us that tithe is ONLY from one thing. It is only on this forum that i continue to hear that. there are so many Bible passages that seem to be a 'direct' reference to something, but the Holy Ghost uses it to mean and prove and teach something else. This is so common in the new testament Bible. A christian should not be fixated on the letter but on the Spirit. Correct, but again, in Malachi, it is not Abram’s, neither is it yours - it is the specific tithe commanded from the land from Israelites as belonging to God. It cannot be extricated from that context and converted to mean whatever you want it to mean.There is no such context. You can imply that but that is a very personal opinion. The passage says to bring ALL the tithe. Why would you say it is not mine or Abraham's. So far the tithe is for the same purpose, for taking care of the ministers and their ministry. The latter is your opinion which you are free to hold. However, there is a distinction between personal opinion and doctrine/requirements for Christians.i believe that God has given me all things, and i give the tithe specifically to His ministers. Abraham believed same. He knew God had given him the victory and he gave the tithe to the priest of God, Melchisedec. The Israelites were also taought the same thing. Useful for teaching is not the same as saying Israelites were commanded to do x therefore Christians have to do x as well; unless you understand this elementary distinction, it is a waste of time.Did i say that christians have to do x? Do you decide to throw away every discussion and explanation we ever had/made, just to make this point? The book of Malachi remains apt for teaching the truth, and giving instruction for right living, so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed. We are not discussing the book of Malachi in total, we are discussing a specific passage - I hope you realise that. I also hope you are able to understand that a passage can have specific elements with general application while having others with limited or specific application. Can you can identify where Jesus taught those not under the law to tithe based on Malachi 3v8-10? If you can, please show me.What are you implying? That some part of malachi is for all of us and some part is not for us? i think you said Malachi is just for the nation of Israel. That is why i brought out passages from malachi showing they were not just messages for Israel. Please tell me where you think Jesus started addressing or teaching those not under the law so that i can show you, thanks. Again, I am not against taking teaching from the book of Malachi, what I am stating is that a specific instruction in Malachi (based on Leviticus’ instruction) is not compulsory or a requirement, except for those the latter instruction applied to. If an individual chooses to use that teaching as an example, then it is a personal decision - I have no issues with that.i did not say that anything is compulsory, did i? Actually, i believe there is nothing compulsory in this age of grace. Not prayr, not giving, not going to church, nothing. Yet, all things are compulsory in a sense that is. The apostles as recorded never taught anyone to tithe - whether based on Malachi or any other passage for that matter, so there is no hiding under how the apostles ‘considered scripture’.They did not teach anyone not to tithe. Instead they encouraged obedience to the Old Testament Bible. Read James, Peter, John and Paul. Melchisedec did not require tithe to sustain himself - instead, he sustained Abram by refreshing him. Melchisedec did not need sustenance from Abram - let that sink in for a moment. Pastors are not those in the order of Melchisedec - Jesus is. Jesus doesn’t need sustenance from us either.Melchisedec and Abraham gave one another. You cannot claim that one sustained the other, and that the other did not sustain one. What Abraham gave was greater in size than what Melchisedec gave BTW. i did not say any of them needed or did not need sustenance, so i do not understand your statement about sinking. i said the tithe is used for sustenance. Today, most antitithers would agree that Bishop Oyedepo for instance does not need to be SUSTAINED by my giving a tithe. however, the basic purpose of the tithe and offering is to help sustain the ministers and priests. Priests receive offerings and gifts. Even pagans have that commonsense. Whether the priest or minister is rich or poor is irrelevant. People give them gifts, offerings, tithes, like Naaman wanted to do to Elisha, or like the Shunammite did to Elisha the minister. This is the way people relate with ministers for ages and world all over whether christian or pagan. they bring them offerings and gifts for their upkeep. The only tithe referred to as belonging to God were those commanded from the Israelites from agricultural produce. God did not say Abram’s tithe belonged to him - Abram chose to give it after Melchisedec blessed him, not as a pre-condition to be blessed either. Let everyone exercise their choice. The only ones without a choice were the Israelites who were commanded to tithe in Leviticus, which is what Malachi refers to. If you consider the Levitical command as applicable to you, then that is your prerogative.Abraham's tithe belong to God, mine also. Infact, the whole earth belong to God. i made comments and explanations on that Leviticus passage last month, antitihers avoided it like a plague. i'm not that skilled in looking for past posts, i'll see if i can find it though. Supporting ministers is fine by me as I’ve said elsewhere, and this can be does not have to be through tithes - it is up to the individual/congregation to decide and has nothing to do with whether tithes belong to God - the tithes belonging to God are clearly stated. It is not generic in any form.You want me to remember what you've said elsewhere, but you are behaving oblivious to what i have said elsewhere on tithing. Why? i believe that i belong to God including ALL that i have, my tithes belong to God. What is stated is clear - Ministers should be supported from the gospel, how that works out in practice is up to the individuals involved.What gospel, how? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 9:58pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
Zikkyy: Agreed. proportion is ratio, percentage but you have to be an illiterate to say proportion means 10%If you were not hasty to jump into the discussion, you may have noticed that i never said that proportion means 10%. Nobody said that, i wonder why you introduced such fallacy. Mark said christians don't give proportion. Even quoted many versions to hide from this simple fact. i showed that there is nothing wrong or unbiblical about giving in proportion. Like you tried to prove, it is common sense to give in proportion. No one should be stopped or hassled from giving in proportion whatever the proportion, be it 10% or whatever. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 9:57pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
Zikkyy: every use of earnings is a proportion of something. if you go shopping at shoprite, you will be spending a proportion of your income. the poster was not saying Christians are not required to give a proportion of their income. read the post again (below)....It is obvious. Read the coloured again. He said "Christians are not required to give a set percentage of our income regardless of how it is required". According to you, you said "Agreed. proportion is ratio, percentage". There is no need for you to help him twist what he said. It is so straight forward, regardless of how it is required. 1Co 16:2 is not saying they should put aside a defined or fixed % of their earnings. when Paul said in proportion to what you have earned, he is saying as you have been blessed or prospered. for those that have little put a little something aside, and for those that have more (or earned more) save a little more. he expected the rich to give more than the poor, but that does not translate to everybody giving a fixed 10% or 20%. It cannot be used to justify tithing.as you have been blessed or prospered IS a percentage or proportion of your earning. mark said Christians are not required to give a set percentage. i simply showed where some christians were told that they MUST give a set proportion. It means those who had little did not give the same thing as those who had much. They were told in this case to give in proportion to their prosperity. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 9:56pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
Zikkyy: It's not in any of the category and it's not for him to approve or dis-approve.Abraham's tithe is categoriless, interesting. So, why do you have to put mine or any other under a category? Our friend said there are three types of tithe and that we have not been taught, whoever we means. are you saying firstborn from any tribe served in the temple/tabernacleyes, the firstborns from all tribes were initially chosen to serve in the tabernacle. it was after that God chose Levi after a particular "Who is on the Lord's side" incidence. what's this talk bout supporting priests that are of the order of the Melchizedek. You are saying the purpose of the tithe is to support people (of the order of Melchizedek) that serve in the temple/tabernacleThe tithe is given to support temple workers, so that they do not have to go out and work like other people, but that they be allowed to serve God whole heartedly. At the time of Moses, the temple workers were from the tribe of Levi. Today, God has temple workers from different tribes. It's not just because they are people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. Levites don't serve in the temple at the same time. They get the tithe first for belonging to the tribe of Levi.They get the tithe for serving in the temple, amongst other reasons. Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 4:35pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: An adequate response:Response to what exactly, did you even watch the video? i guess not. 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 2:28pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
debosky: I haven't listened to the message yet (unable to at the moment). Your first post didn't indicate whether or not you agreed with it, instead you focused on the attacks. That's all I was pointing out.Okay, no problem. When you do listen to it, you would discover a ten minute or so video that hardly even mentions tithe but talks about honouring God and His Word. Its the same way many would not yet hear the message, but instead of waiting like you, they are quick to speak against the messenger. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 1:32pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: I do.You fellows have real problems. If the man brings what his pastor says, you will complain of man worship or gullibility. If a man does not do that, you will say who sent you. Na wa oh. Just focus on this issue and the Bible if you can. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 1:25pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
debosky: The bold text is all I asked for.You did not answer my own questioons oh. i do not have to deal with the message if i agree with and preach it. i simply show my agreement if i need to. i did not attack oh, i just told them what they were doing wrong. i dealt with their message. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 1:14pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
Candour: Correction @ the bolded. DLBC will NEVER associate with Creflo as DLBC does not promote tithe the way its being done here. The OP is on his own mission and he's associating with whomever he will strictly on his own. He doesn't have DLBC's mandate as has been proved before on this forum so pls let's keep them apart.Deeper life hardly 'associates' with anybody, not just Creflo. The point is the message being preached. If Creflo says that Jesus is risen, or that God is good, i believe the Deeper Life supports that, as it is truth. Stop all this attempt at divisions and face the message, not Ola or Creflo or Deeper. Its the same way you guys tied to focus on pastor Chris instead of what he was saying. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 12:41pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: The message on tithing is Fraud.Your love of money is what keeps you twisting and turning in dishonesty. It is you and atheists that are on the same page on this, it baffles that you cannot see that. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 12:34pm On Nov 08, 2013 |
debosky: ^^ Do you agree with the message or not? Instead of drawing attention to personal attacks, why not state your own views on the message therein?What message? Do you agree with the message? i'm not a sectarian. i agree with all that was said in those two videos Olaa posted. i agree with 1Samuel 2 and John 5. What was said is truth. we should honour God and obey His Word. What is wrong with that? Nothing. Some did not even listen to the video. They only saw the messenger and went out to attack. Deal with the message, that is maturity. Paul picked important truths from what even unbelievers did, he was not a sectarian liking all peter and barnabas were saying. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 10:02am On Nov 08, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: funny, i quoted Bible. And Bible states prospered, not proportion.As usual, you come off s someone who does not read to understand but to quickly hit the reply button. The phrase in line is "as God hath". Here is the passage again, goodnews i think. 1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. 1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 9:53am On Nov 08, 2013 |
Bidam:smh. my very eyes may just see ugly, ugly, uguguguly. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 9:45am On Nov 08, 2013 |
Mark Miwerds: 1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.When they want to put wool over our eyes, they will jump into seminary speeches. Any literate knows what proportion is. It is ratio, percentage, as God has, in ratio to, in proportion to how God has prospered you. No need to fly off tangent updating us on the greek of prosper. i did not mention prosper, i quoted Bible and Bible states proportion. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 11:29pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
lastmessenger: The major problem of people in this country is crowd mentality.people hate someone with a different opinion and they label him a rebel without having a close consideration on why the person is having a different opinion.we like public opinion only few people change things in this world and the rest follow like sheep.things are changing as years goes by and infact marthin luther had to steal the new testament and translated it to german language and just because of people like him we all can read the bible today and make arguement on this forum.Eeyah, many people did not agree with or feel joy by this your post. The post is actually like a boomerang, especially the bolded. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 11:25pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
Candour: Behold an explanation of tithe that Pastors will not have you see. Ask a bible teacher to explain it to you if they can. This is the practice Malachi was trying to remind Israelites of in Mal 3:8-11. If you want to pay tithe today, These verses below remains the true and only guideline. Any other format is a lie and a fraud.This is either ignorance or sheer dishonesty. Mal 3:8-11 is not referring to Deut 14:22-29. Deut 14:22-29 talks about the tithe eaten by the individual and of the tithe given at home every three years. Malachi talks of the tithe brought to the storehouse in the temple. That is, brought and given to the temple workers or what is called the priesthood. You cannot quote a passage on two types of tithe and claim that These verses below remains the true and only guideline. Any other format is a lie and a fraud. Talking boldly and charismatically or spamming does not equal to truth. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 11:12pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
[quote author=Omo-Awori]@ Image 123 Be very aware nobody is making a mockery, we all need to have a solid based foundation and understanding about our christian faith.[/quote]Okay. Speak for yourself though. What are the tithing principles? i do not know if the jews are still paying tithes, do you?Thanks for the information. i also asked "What are the tithing principles?" BTW, my faith or life is not based on what the modern day jews do or do not do. They are wrong about Jesus and can be wrong on other areas. Also Jesus Himself said it long time ago that the time was coming when we would not have to go to Jerusalem or the temple there to worship God. i do not know. If you know, kindly share using the criteria you stated in the last line.Unfortunately, you were not SO KIND TO POINT US TO BIBLICAL REFERENCES. All this one is like tales by moonlight. Everyone can pull out his own assumptions. There are many teachings, the question cannot be asked generally. People teach on everything almost, in different ways. Holy Spirit, heaven, Righteousness, Tithe, Baptism, Worship, Deliverance, Prayer etc. There are different teachings by different people. What we need is what the Bible says, not what people say. Let God be true and every man a liar.Hmmm, dunno about the most quoted verse of the Bible. i would have assumed John 3v16 though. You believe that we have not been taught that there are 'three types' of tithing. Again, speak for yourself, some have been taught. i think i have taught that too on this forum, that there are at least 3 different forms of tithing referenced in the scriptures. 3 types of tithes:What of the tithe that Abraham gave, what category does it fall? Or you do not approve it? The purpose of the tithe is to support the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. At a point, they were simply firstborns from any tribe, at another point, they were from Levi tribe, at another point, they are of the order of Melchisedec. So, the true purpose is, why Levi? Because they are the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. The 2nd tithe - Deuteronomy 14:22-27, (the festival tithe) - a tenth of crops, plus add to the firstborn animals and take for the yearly feast.hmmm The 3rd tithe - Deuteronomy 14:28-29 (also known as the three-year tithe or the 'poor tithe') - a tenth of crops kept at homes to be given to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers to eat. The purpose of this tithe is to feed the poor.Thought you would use the same line of thought as you used to deduce number 2 purpose, hahahaha. that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest. Well, go ahead. BTW, i do not think there is a church that asks tithe when there is no harvest or salary or job done. Tithing is an OT Mandate, this was a requirement of the law which all Israelites were to give 10% of everything that comes from the land to the Tabernacle / Temple. In fact, the OT law required multiple tithes which would have pushed the total to around 23.3% not the 10% which is generally required or considered the tithe amount today. Tithing can be understood as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the Levites and the Priests in the sacrificial system.Seminary songs. 1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in PROPORTION to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come. Do you know that proportion is another word for percentage? 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 10:45pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
Candour: 8. Don't post false information on Nairaland.By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming. He has a lot of members and apologists even on this forum. That means plenty people love and respect him. It doesn't mean i do. The same way millions of Germans loved and respected Hitler even though you probably regard him as a villain.Its better as you clarified yourself. When someone refers to another as "a much beloved and respected pastor.", the message being sent is that of personal respect and love. It would be odd for instance for me to refer to Guru maraji, T Joshua, or Bin Laden as much beloved and respected. These people also have lots of followers and apologists, but one may be sending a confusing signal. Anyway, good that you made yourself clearer. With that devotional, Oyaks proved what i and others have been telling you for a long time. So you can imagine my joy when i saw he knows exactly what tithe is: a COMPULSORY practice in the LAW of Moses. It has nothing to do with Abraham and surely has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a Christian saved by grace.What is that thing you have being telling me for a long time again? Does pastor Chris saying something make it truth? If yes, why are you being selective with this truth? According to you, pastor Chris says that tithing is compulsory, therefore that proves that tithing is compulsory. pastor Chris says that you should bring your tithes, but that does not prove that you should bring your tithe. Do you by chance see the inconsistency in your deductions? How can anyone say that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham when the Bible clearly says that Abraham gave tithes? The widow gave freely. She wasn't following a law when she cast in all and that is the principle there.Oh, but you want us to follow a law when we give the tithe? When folks talk about principle and tithing, it seems this quoted portion of your thinking is dormant? That is the exact type we Christians are asked to follow by Christ and the Apostles. If only Ananias and Sapphira had known this, they wouldn't have tried to impress the apostles and get the immediate judgement they got. I have had cause to issue a draft for almost 3/4 of my monthly salary once to support a dire need in church. It was in mine power to do it or not to do.Not sure i need all this preaching, thanks. God didn't stipulate it. It was of my own volition and that is what the bible means by 'every man as he purposed in his heart, so let him give.....'. A Christian shouldn't give to fulfill all righteousness. That is what Pharisees do. We should give as the need arises even if it takes all we have and that is what i live by.1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. 1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come. Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist. Are you okay with a poor widow in Winners Chapel for instance, that gives all her life's savings of about 28,000 into the offering box/bag? she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had. she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. BTW, why do you find it so wrong for a christian to give or do anything to fulfill all righteousness? You said "That is what pharisees do". This is surprising as the Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that. Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him. i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel. Candour, people are actually reading what you say, and so is God. You cannot just afford to say things just to shine or get likes or win arguments. If you have nothing edifying or true or honest to say, it is better to keep quiet or ignore us or pray for us. than to come showboat before people with itching ears. If you live by the 10% threshold, my dear brother image, you have a lot to learn about Love for God and love for your neighbour. If you believe God truly owns all you have, you'll not be rating him or his righteous causes on a meager and miserly 10%.Not sure i need all this preaching, i have no idea what you are trying to say. What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? Who here has rated God, or rated his righteous causes? You're right that freewill giving is commanded in the law of Moses. Christ and the apostles also asked us to give. The problem is that no percentage was stipulated. As i purpose in my heart and as the Lord has blessed me, so i give. read Matt 25:35-40, 1Cor 16:1-2; 2Cor 9:6-8; James 1:27 to get an idea of the kind of giving expected of a Christian. It has nothing to do with the law of Moses.This is back to square one. tithing is not the law of Moses. It was practiced before Moses' father was born. You can see the bolded. This is talking about a vow you made freely. It has no resemblance to what you drop into the collection bag.i do not understand. Are you saying that if i make a vow freely, i cannot drop it into the collection bag? Read this again for context. Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Tithes And Offerings by Image123(m): 9:57pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Do you have to descend so low as to use Creflo Dollar to lend credence to this fraudulent practice of tithing?yawn at the usual attempts to attack the messenger instead of dealing with the message. It is the same two faced you who would attack the deeper life if they do not associate with others. Deal with the message, not with Creflo or Deeper. 3 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: "Why Is Christianity Better Than Other Religions?" by Image123(m): 9:50pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
lol @ cartoon. The wayof the unbeliever is hard. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 7:33pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
Uche ernest: i mean, if u dn't want to pay, no jst worry urself... As for me i will pay. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 7:19pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
Uche ernest: i mean, if u dn't want to pay, no jst worry urself... As for me i will pay.The antitithers do not like this oh. They will hunt and haunt you to obey their law of thou shall not tithe. They hate that word like demons hate to hear Jesus. 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 7:05pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
Bidam: Nobody has said in this forum that you are to offer money to be saved.If they did..point it out..You dey mind baseless and unfounded accusations? Folks just make claims like God des not see them. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Deception Of Malachi 3:10-11 "Devourer" And "Storehouse" EXPOSED by Image123(m): 7:00pm On Nov 07, 2013 |
[quote author=Demain_man]With all the teachings I have learnt on this forum and many others like this, I have no doubt that I am not required to pay any money for salvation. IT IS FREE!![/quote]Who ever said that you are required to pay money for salvatin. Certainly not on this forum, no? |
please clarify.
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