₦airaland Forum

Mark Miwerds: I understood you perfectly well.

A covenant is an agreement between two individuals.

In order for me to make an agreement on tithing with God, I must first be given the conditions that God wants me to meet. I cannot agree with something that God never told me to do.

Now, I ask again.... show us where in Scripture where God endears, endorses, or enters into this "agreement," to accept monetary tithes?

Mark Miwerds: Fine. Now, show us where in Scripture where God endears, endorses, or enters into this "agreement," to accept monetary tithes?

pickabeau1: I stil dont believe it is appropriate for a man of the cloth to have an inordinate ambition to gather material possessions

The crave to have name and fame (known as the pastors who prayed for Jona/YarAdua) or multi billion auditoriums is at variance with the meekness and humility preached by the Master

He lived a life of compassion not extorting from the flock and then saying you did not use their money or sweat to arrive where you are


Even Oritse had to clamour for jet when he saw he was being left out

Mark Miwerds: Covenant practice?

Where in the Bible does it say that tithing of money is a "Covenant practice"?

The only time tithing is done under a "covenant" in the Bible is in the Old Testament. That "tithe" was of crops and livestock... not money.

God's "covenant with Abram was not until AFTER Abram's tithe to Melchizedek, not before. His tithe was not part of a "covenant."

I suggest that you are the one who needs to "read the right books" to get a better understanding of tithes, not Zikky.

Image123: Okay

pickabeau1: Please can you explain this with the same word that says it is difficult for a rich man to reach heaven

pickabeau1: Please can you explain this with the same word that says it is difficult for a rich man to reach heaven

plaetton: I did not live in the time of Jesus, so the issue of following Jesus around Palestine is quite mute in this issue.
Some followed, some did not .

Actually, I have not found any non-redacted and non-edited words of Jesus that I disagree with.

But like I said before, a person can say a lot of things, when a particular speech is directed towards me or resonates within me, I take special notice.
Aspects of the Sermon On The Mount that I quoted at the beginning were addressed to me and resonates within me.
So, I am free to take the wheat and throw away the shaffe.

Unless you can prove tome that Jesus was wrong or mistaken on that sermon, I dont' really see what other points you are trying to make.
Jesus never asked me to join a monstrous cult, neither did he ask me to pay monetary ransome(your preferred method).
He identified my personal qualities as being sufficient for the kingdom of god.

Are you jealous that I already have a ticket while you are not sure of your own, despite all your religiousity?

Remember what Jesus said about the Hypocrites and Pharisees.

plaetton: Please stop hiding under words and come out in plain sight.
So, you are saying that the Jesus sermon on the mount is deceptive?
Can you please clarify?
Was Jesus wrong or mistaken?

And also,
I can bet you that despite your religiousity, I am 100% sure that you do not have the faintest idea of what it means to be born again.

plaetton: @Abijam, Image123 & Obadiah777,

Jesus said in black and white that I posses all the qualities heaven requires. If I am standing on the strength of those words of Jesus, who dares to add or contradict Jesus?.

Are you guys saying that your mortal opinions, your mortal understandings are somehow superior to Jesus?

Shouldn't Jesus know better than you guys, who are following the much embellished and distorted versions of his message?

I find it shocking that you would attempt to innocuously repudiate and minimize the golden teachings of Jesus.
Do not forget, Jesus was preaching to everyone, not to Christians.

debosky: I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by your response here. Who attacked the messenger? It is simply incontrovertible evidence that shows that the claims of many about ‘tithing like Abram’ is simply false. This is evidence of a large church and how it teaches tithing.

Again I am disappointed. No one is saying you can’t use Malachi to teach - it is how you use it to teach that matters here. All scripture is profitable for doctrine yes - but does that mean you can twist scripture any way you want simply because it can be used for doctrine?

No it wasn’t anti-tithers that said it was from the law - in this example it was Pastor Chris - he taught that it was compulsory, and calls those that don’t robbers. Is that a case of ‘lessons we can learn’ or ‘practises we can emulate’ or plain and simply calling those who don’t tithe robbers? Again I am disappointed.

You would rather avoid addressing the issues here under the vacuous claim that people will go into personal attacks. Is ‘protecting’ the messenger from ‘attacks’ more important than speaking the truth?

Enough of your equivocation - Pastor Chris calls those who don’t tithe robbers. It wasn’t anti-tithers who made that claim. Who is calling who derogatory names then? To say it is simply a case of you don’t agree with any man on everything is a laughable excuse - this isn’t some general discussion on whether we agree with each other on everything - it is a specific discussion about tithe.

What is your stand on the commentary by Pastor Chris? Do you agree non-tithers are robbers or not?

So it is okay to reference the aspects you agree with but leave out the bone of contention itself - the aspect talking about tithe? Why even bother responding at all? You might as well avoid all tithe discussions if you choose not to engage with the subject of discussion.

The central issue here is not the fix it all aspect - it is whether it is required/compulsory, and it means for those who don’t tithe. Your attempts to make every response here about ‘fix it all’ is not helpful at all and appears to be an attempt to move away from what the subject matter of this thread.

This thread is talking about how people are being deceived by wrong teaching of Malachi - no one (as far as I know) has said Malachi should be removed from the bible or not taught from - the issue is, as always, understanding the teaching in context. No amount of claiming scripture is profitable for doctrine will ever justify twisted teaching.

Mark Miwerds: Actually, I did not lie at all. In all of Paul's epistles, he only mentions being a Pharisee in one passage... Phil. 3:4-8. Notice:

Philippians 3:4-8 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and[b] I count all things but loss[/b] for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Paul, when speaking of being a Pharisee, was speaking of his past state,... not of his present state. After his Salvation experience on Damascus Road, Paul rejected the sect of the Pharisees, counting that past life as dung.

Mark Miwerds: Amen, Debosky!

The proper teaching from Malachi 3 should be that Malachi was referring to a tithe of crops and livestock... not money.
The proper teaching from Malachi 3 should be that the curse associated with not tithing was locusts and withholding of rain.
The proper teaching from Malachi 3 should be that the blessings associated with tithing was rain from heaven and withholding the locust from eating the crops... bringing about a bountiful harvest... not more money, better job, good health, close-knit family, etc..
The proper teaching from Malachi 3 is that it was written to Israel, not to the Church. The Church was not robbing God... the Priests of Israel were.

Chris Oyakhilome clearly distorts the proper teaching of Malachi 3, turning the rebuke and exhortation into something that God never said.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Logicb: olutionary psychology?
Evolution?
Psychology?
Simple.
1) Man is an evolved animal. Yes, an animal.
2) Man's morality is different from animals due to the fact that
humans have the ability to reason with an evolved brain
3) Man's morality comes from innate instincts,personal reasoning,
family and societal norms
There is no such thing as sin. There is only what we perceive to be
right or wrong.

Logicboy03: Why should I bother? You know what you posted was clearly false. A christian shouldnt be blatantly lying like this!

Mans nature is explain best by two things; psychology and evolution.

To claim that religion best explains man's nature is false.

Logicboy03: FAIL

FALSE

shdemidemi: ^^^I am sure Paul should be right in front of the roll when it comes to blessings, you will definitely agree that that man worked selflessly for this gospel of Christ. Was he a beneficiary of these blessings we are talking about? In fact, we can extend it to all the twelve disciples plus Timothy. Did they enjoy these earthly/financial and 'dynamic' blessings?

shdemidemi: my bro, I no run o

'The point made is that we receive BECAUSE we keep His commandments'....

By the above statement, dont you think you are gravitating towards 'works' that is, If I do this I will get that from God.

shdemidemi: Bro, what commandment did Jacob keep to obtain the promise?

Moreover, the subsequent verse states what the commandment in this verse is- 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.



You seem to be looking at things through the eyes of works but God's programme have since moved. This is similar to the children of Israel who God took out of Egypt but Egypt never left them. They complained every time, they would rather be slaves eating fish, cucumbers, melons, onions, and garlic in Egypt at the expense of their liberty. As Christians we have also left that dispensation of the law and of works but most Christians still clumsily carry the 'works' mentality even in this dispensation of grace, faith and trust in God.

Tithing or not tithing, obedience or no obedience, works or no works, not by any merit but by the sovereign will of God. God says I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.