₦airaland Forum

Zikkyy: Holyine i know dat drug very well naw dat drug has been banned whoever prescribed that drug no like you the drug dey make people to hallucinate

i don't overdose na.

Not to keep you all waiting forever, i'll continue from my phone. Unfortunately, i'll not quote, but i'm continuing my answer from where i stopped at no.5 point goshen made.
i did not say the first tithe i explained was for 'levites, temple workers and their families'. i said Levites working in Jerusalem temple. This are the same as temple workers, not different as in "levites, temple workers". i explained that there are different levites, did you see that or only quoted it? They are not just teaching God's ways but ALSO set apart. i even said "set apart" first before the 'teaching'. They have no other work. Anyone today that is dedicated for such purpose is fulfilling the same duty. You quoted me saying that. So, are you in such category? i am not, i do not need your tithe. Most churches have full time workers in different departments. Some are pastors, evangelist, press, accountant, gatemen etc. They work for their church, they do not have other work. They are paid from the church coffers. These are the people functioning in the same office. They work in the church/temple.

@Jem1
i'd not want to ignore, it might appear like i am. But i want to keep it as short and as simple as possible, from one point to the next. That's a major reason i don't usually contribute on 'tithe talk'. So please permit me to finish with the OP's questions, that would take some patience though. And do remind me, and get us Bible passages that state all these your acronyms. Thank you too.

Zikkyy: @Apostle Image123,

na you dey write this long tory on tithe? you never write this kind tory before. which kind drug you don go swallow this time

Holyine, specially prescribed.

Pastor Kun: @Image/Goshen
Concerning the 23% kweshion, i am not the original author of the OP but I would explain how theologians arrived at 23% for our benefit any way. Basically there are three types of tithes, the festival tithe which is done yearly, the levitical tithe which is also done yearly and the poor/ stranger tithe which is done every three years. Mathematically the first two tithes add up to 20% whilst the third tithe works out at an average of 3.3% a year if the third year tithe is divided by three years. So when the third year tithe is averaged and added to the other two tithes which adds up to 20%, you get 23.3% average tithes over the three year period. I hope my explanation is clear.

Very clear oga kuns, thank you.

^
i seriously wonder o.

Sorry, i'd continue from phone so wouldn't use quotes or post scriptures, as those would be more cumbersome. Sorry.
From point 5, go and read Matthew 5, go and read about how Christ was clear on sabbath practices. You're giving Jesus excuses, if He wanted to condemn tithes, He would have. HE DID NOT. followers of Christ should not. He even encouraged people to, these YE OUGHT TO HAVE DONE. Would Jesus encourage people to do a wrong thing?

i don tire already for phone. i'll finish when i wake later by God's grace.

ea7: if i give someone a choice. i dont say which apple do you want, blue, green or red. pick freely, bt if you choose blue or red i will kill you. is that a free choice?

Freewill is not freedom to choose wrong/evil. It is ability to choose. Like the sun has no such ability, earth has no such ability, my cow has no such ability.

3. If Jesus was supporting tithe in Matt 23:23, then since he himself was born under the law, lived the law and fulfilled the law, then Jesus himself must have paid tithe but he never did. Also, If Jesus was in support of tithe here, he would have taught his disciples tithe even as he taught them to tax to the authorities then and Jesus himself did paid tax. Tax is different from tithe as we all know.

You can't say that Jesus never paid tithe. the Bible doesn't say so, where did you get that? if you say He fulfilled the law, then He must have given tithes. The scribes gave tithes, the Pharisees did. how do we know? Jesus mentioned it. If He didn't mention it, we may not know for sure. We may all say"it's only farmers that give tithes". The scribes paid tithes, all Israel were supposed to tithe. The Bible doesn't write that Jesus brought or offered things at Jerusalem. But it's the normal thing to do, or you think He just went on sight seeing excursions.All Jewish males went to Jerusalem every passover(i think 3times in a year even) and were not to come empty. It's all in the OT. These are normal things that all Jews did, and doesn't need unnecessary repetition. You don't have to teach someone what he already and always does, do you? You may correct if he's not doing it fine, that's what Jesus did.
Taxing was debatable in Jesus' days. the Jews didn't naturally pay tribute/tax. It was a mark/symbol of oppression to them. That's why they tempted Jesus with tax questions.. And so Jesus had to teach about it, and clear misconceptions. It was an occasion that came up. Tithing on the other hand, was not debatable in those days.

4. The people in context here that tithe are neither Jesus nor His disciples but Pharisees and scribes. Our example is Christ and not scribes/pharisees and the content of tithe here is NOT money but mint, anise and cummin.

Tithe is a tenth of your increase. If you increase is anise,go ahead and give. Christ's point here was not mint and anise. His point was that the scribes and pharisees tithed to the smallest/barest detail. They were detailed and committed to it, but omitted weightier matters.

alright to serious me

First, you are NOT going into endless discussion on tithe. It is our duty to teach God's truth as much as we know and nothing but the truth. Hence, we are here to teach ourselves and to learn from ourselves,okay.

i do hope we'll not do the bolded.

You just said a fundamental truth which i first referred to in one of my comments to you. Just like you said, TITHE DOES NOT TAKE ANYONE TO HEAVEN NEITHER DOES IT DISQUALIFY ANYONE FROM HEAVEN. This is a bible truth you have said. Unfortunately, these tithe preachers don't see it the way you said it. They force it on people and even emphasis curse in Malachi upon the people. They make it look like it is the SURE way that God blesses people. Abraham, we know was rich in material things before he gave tithe of the "spoil" to Melchizedek. These tithe teachers go any length to use all sort of unscriptural ways to fleece God's people. Should they see it the way you have said, I don't think there will be problem.

TITHES DO NOT DISQUALIFY ANYONE FROM HEAVEN, drum that into kunle and his cohorts' heads, they usually tell people so. Tithing has been abused, healing has also been abused, deliverance has, salvation has, submission has, even Christ has. It's not a reason to throw out the baby with the water.

Now, we might have some issues due to how we interpret Matt 23:23/Luke 11:42. I will raise my point against these two verses and we can look at it together. I don't think Jesus supports tithe here even though it was still in practice then, and I will state reasons why I don't believe Jesus was supporting tithe here.

Jesus NEVER argued against tithes, i follow Him. " these ought ye to have done" is support. We don't need to twist this. If 'ought to have done' is not support, i wonder what is. Jesus could have simply said " Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin" and left it there. All your Jesus against tithe argument would have made perfect sense. He could have simply added "Verily I say unto you, Ye ought not to do this". That would be EXPLICIT. But "these OUGHT YE to have done", this is english na, not Tapa or Spanish, where we might need help of translators. We may ALL well have to go ask our english teachers the meaning of 'ought to'.

1. As we all know, Jesus was born under the law and lived the law otherwise he would break the same law he came to fulfill. Let's look at the point I want to raise against Matt 23:23/Luke 11:42 below:

It's either you are for or against.Did Jesus fulfill the law or not? You should answer. Because you guys come and say 'tithe is law and Jesus did not tithe or encourage tithe'. that's double mouthing. If Jesus did not tithe, then He did not fulfill the law (as tithe=law according to you guys).

2. In context of Matt 23:1-3. "Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, [that] observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do". nkjv

Looking at the line of language used here.

Don't bother about the line of language, let's not twist this. Let's just take it as simply as He said it. " The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do"

Jesus acknowledged the scribes and the Pharisees who sit in Moses' seat. Meaning Jesus acknowledged the authorities here so He was telling His disciples and multitudes obey authorities but don't do according to their works, one of which their works is tithing which we see in verse 23.

The pharisses' work is not tithing, their work is obvious from the passage you quoted. THEY SAY AND DO NOT! i.e HYPOCRISY. They were hypocrites. That's their work. Tithing was before Pharisees, and was commanded by God. It's not a work of Pharisees, JESUS CHRIST!! This is my major grouse with all antitithers. Anything and Everything anti-tithe is brilliant and spot on to them. This your 'point' is not brilliant at all. Infact, kunle should be thanking the gods that he wasn't the one who said this on my watch.
They say and do not. The doing not, the hypocrisy, the show-off, mouth talk, was what Jesus 'attacked'. They wanted and lived to be seen of men and praised of men. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with being seen or praised. you've just been seen and praised by nuclearboy(my man). But living for it, wanting, coveting it, driven by it, is what's wrong. that's the way the pharisees lived. They made long prayers, there's nothing wrong with long prayers. Long prayers was not their works, but the pretense, the hypocrisy, the show-off. The Pharisees were zealous in their 'evangelism' as the passage says.Christ Himself was zealous, Paul was! We are to be instant in season and out of season, and zealous of good works. Zeal is not the work of the Pharisees. They paid tithes, but their hypocrisy of OMITTING more serious issues was their work, hypocrisy. making clean the outside is okay, but hypocrisy is when the inside is bad/dirty. We should all be clean without and within. Show-off and hypocrisy is what makes the outside clean and the inside dirty, to be seen of men. We ought to get the real issue Jesus was pointing out. There's nothing wrong with appearing righteous to men. We're not supposed to appear unrighteous, are we? Jesus appeared righteous to many, to Pilate, to the Centurion at His cross, to the young rich ruler, to His disciples. But it is THE WORK that is 'attacked' again.
Matthew 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
hypocrisy and iniquity within. And on and on the passage goes. Please, let's get the issues right and ask God for real understanding of His Word and message.

5solas: It is there in my quotation of you . Salvation is given to the ungodly and undeserving being ungodly and undeserving: from this premise it is clear it cannot be lost.

If it were given to the righteous because of their righteousness, then it could be lost; but it is not so given.

And who deserves life or sanity, graces that are lost daily?

^this are all qualities that kunle lacks, if we're to say the truth and let the devil be ashamed.

logicboy: Go and see a psychiatrist, your mental gymnastics has gone too far!You are not OK!


Sin causes diseases? So people with diseases are sinners


What the hell do you mean that the world was in a freezer? You are not OK

You need to love this guy, iguess the answer catch for badplace, he say i do ojoro.
I didn't say that people with diseases are sinners, stick to what i say. I said sin brings darkness and death. It was adam's sin that introduced sickness, sorrow, pain, death on humanity. When there was light, there was no sickness. Everything was preserved. That's why i used a freezer analogy. i didn't say that the world is in a freezer. You need those glasses. i said the world is the freezer i.e in my analogy of freezer, light, meat, soup.

Ptolomeus: For the absurd:
1. Leprosy is not there when God created the world. Hence leprosy was not created by God.

2. Image123 not existed when God created the world. Hence Image123 therefore was not created by God.

Reasoning absolutely absurd.

Bacteria, fungi, viruses, animals MUTATE.
Dear friend, you are clinging to defend indefensible.
Seek the path of rationality and blind fanaticism.
Okay?

I was giving him an explanation, not an analogy. Do you not qualify as a troll in logic's books? Where are those foolish atheists to come tell this fella the name of his fallacy?

All these things were already predicted in scriptures, you're late. Iniquity would abound, love of many will wax cold, evil men will wax worse and worsest. BTW, western countries are not the bedrock of christianity, you dishonest fellow. Like i said, look into the future, think big. Forget the scores at half time, i've told you full-time scores.

logicboy: How is that possible? It's like saying that lions were not busy eating meat or fishes were not busy swimming.

It is some bacteria's nature to cause diseases

i'll show you how. Have you being praying secretly, i'm being gentle on you today?
It's like in a deep freezer, you have soup and meat and bread, which can be kept intact if there's light. If this light went, some organisms would begin to do things they didn't do with light. The earth/world is the freezer. Sin took that Light, and so we now see things we probably didn't even know were there. Sin brings darkness and death. That was what God warned Adam about.

^i added life(physical life), sanity, and yourself. These were not worked for. You didn't really miss that, did you?

logicboy: Then genesis 1 lied because bacteria and fungi existed then.

If bacteria and fungi existed then in Genesis 1, they were not busy causing disease. You've failed again.

[quote author=Lord_Reed]Utter Rubbish! The Lord makes no such distinction if anything Pastors are called to higher standard not the other way around.

Being embarrassed for reading from his phone just goes to show the lack of love.[/quote]You mean lord reed right?

logicboy: Wow, it seems that you're admitting that you're wrong!

i'm going to be nicer. Control is different from creation. God is in control of every circumstance. Meaning that nothing balls out of God's control. Things have definitely 'gone out', but they're not out of God's control. But God did not create sickness or leprosy. He can control it though, if He pleases. There was no sickness or leprosy in Genesis 1and 2. Sickness and leprosy came after the 'genesis 3 fall'.

logicboy: Is that why christiany is in turmoil? Europe is becoming more atheist and America is becoming more secular?

What do you mean by turmoil? What do you understand as Christianity? Look at the big picture, God's kingdom owns the future.

logicboy: I thought God created every living thing?

You fail, try again

Your thoughts are worthless in comparison with God's ways, keep them to yourself.

^it MAY be better we take it one by one, but as you please though.

logicboy: What? I am still saying the same thing; I don't like it when christians use the "you're going to hell" excuse to derail debates. The other thing is when they say that a person that says there is no God is a fool. You cant believe that all atheists are fools.


BTW...it's always nice to divide and conquer christians.

Mark 3;24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand

You're pathetic. The same fellow you quote made it clear that the kingdom of God stands victorious and nothing, not even the gates of hell can prevail against it.

Pastor Kun: I didn't know your I.D is now snowwy Or was my post addressed at you?

i was beginning to think you were either past learning or omniscient. I'm happy for you.

babaearly: you are turning to a badasss now?

No sir. Sorry sir.

logicboy: What in that statement gives you the idea that I dont know the meaning of troll? A troll like you doesnt contribute to topics and just writes nonsense to get a rise out of the OP.


Thanks, you're still a troll

God did not create leprosy. You are troll perfected.

Where are those anti-tithers, all they do is mast.urbate about tithes, except for a pitiful few like goshen my brother. Come, teach this fellow and take some 'heat'.

Pastor Kun: @snowwy
We are still waiting for your inputs, your brother needs help to get out of the hole he dug for himself

You remain yourself. It'd be better you keep quiet and learn like others instead of polluting the thread. i'll answer at a convenient time. We do give you joy when we teach tithes, right? It'd all be so vain if we ignored your pollutions? Don't worry, we're here to make you happy.