₦airaland Forum

@Bandy

I am totally neutral when it comes to Arsenal even though most Gunners are complete rogues. Nobody can question my objectivity here.Ask NL oldies.

Jackal:
How can Adebayor claim to be 23? Are u guys serious . . . . .Intel says Adebaor has a 17-year-old kid in Togo.
From Wenger's calculation . . . . .Adebayor became a father at the age of 6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buncha twats.

Artficial insemination!!!!!!! Kolo Toure is a grand pa

Wenger hasn't outperformed Benitez,which is the whole point of our debate.If Roman took over at Arsenal,Wenger will tender his resignation citing potential meddlesomness in his task.In reality,it is the pressure that comes with spending that will push him out.

I can place ma money on the fact that Adebayor is not less than 35.

Adebayor or "Pa Ade" as he was known back in his school days 30 years ago The man is probably in the age range of Van Nistlerooy and Trezeguet.

Banderas:
And you can't belittle financial resources, you simply can't. ManU once bid for Ronaldinho, then decided otherwise. If they had bought him, Arsenal wasn't even in the position to make that bid. And Chelsea makes a big mockery of anyone who says the resources to buy players doesn't count.

The bidding for Ronaldinho strangely started at £4 million before,thanks to Madrid and Barca,it ended up at £21 million.A club,like Arsenal, that spent £17 million on Reyes could easily afford an extra £4 million to go for Ronaldinho.Wenger also dismissed the prospect of signing Cristiano Ronaldo while he was at S.Lisbon.

The point is that there are a lot of myths sorrounding these people's talents.Fergie turned down the opportunity to sign Van Nistelrooy before he went to PSV FOR £3 mill.Also turned down Carrick while he was at W.Ham.My view is that if Wenger had Roman Abramovich as his Chairman,he wouldn't be anymore succesful than some of his peers like Jose and Benitez.The question of his "lack of resources" are irrelevant.

Of the 11 players that started against Liverpool,only 2 players could actually be said to be youths(Un-23)-Fabregas and Clichy.The rest are pensioners.We had Anderson,Nani,Ronaldo,Rooney starting against Boro-all Un-23

Razorr:
The gaynners' choice of nutrition should also explain their inability to win the PREM in years. Any sensible parent or coach should know that indomie doesn't keep the child strong and can result in things like weakened bones towards the end of a major league like the PREM.

One physiologist claimed that Fabregas will break down physically.I hope its sooner,rather than later. . .in Jesus name Aragones should be playing him,so as to add to his workload.The more games he plays,the better

Banderas:
TKB, You're spot on!

I-man, thanks for this analysis of Wenger, you're probably right, but I'm afraid I didn't quite get the point you were making there. Every coach makes mistakes, and there are players who don't live up to their expectations.

The impression you gave was,"if only Wenger had financial resources".We know he actually deliberately refused to spend money,we also know from his time at Monaco and Arsenal that when he splashes cash,he makes as many errors as anybody.

So the question of him not having resources is irrelevant when he chose not to make use of it,probably because he had screwed up before.If he doesn't have the courage or confidence in his judgment to spend money,why should that exculpate him? The man turned down an opportunity to sign Van Nistlerooy in favor of Jeffers

HNIC:
Don't you think its a little bit too early to start dreaming, As at the last time I checked the table, Arsenal was on top with a game in hand!

Who else has been dreaming the most apart from Gunners? What has Arsenal being on top have anything to do with the entire season? Never mind United,concentrate on Chelski and Liverpool

@Razorr

I said on the other thread that as things stand today,Chelski is the best team in the Prem and will beat both United and Arsenal if they were to meet. I'm hoping Chelski don't catch up with us but I will love them to catch up with the noisy boastful Gunners

Banderas:
I-man, October is pretty far into the season. I still don't think Rafa is a great PREMIERSHIP coach, winning ahead of Wenger for the last two seasons hardly qualifies him as such.

And you're just anti-wenger. We can quote statistics from now to whenever, the fact is that until the last 3-4 years, Arsenal hasn't had the resources newcastle had, talk less of Liverpool and United. With the resources he has had, Wenger has done a great job.

Maybe when Wenger was signing Wiltord(£13 million),Frank Jeffers(£10 million),Jose Reyes(£17 mllion),the experience convinced him to stop splashing big and look for youth where the margin for error is tolerably higher.

If you sign 10 youth prodigies and only 1 makes it,you become a genius.If you splash out £17 million on Reyes and he doesn't perform,there is greater pressure.For every Fabregas there was a-Song,Vernazza,Aliadierre,Stokes,Diawara,Hughes,Taylor,e.t.c while this process of trail and error is going on,your opponents are piling on the trophies.If you manage to get a few rare gems,you can always return and proclaim yourself a genius for topping the League in October. . . . which of course won't be the case in May.

If Wenger had money?Wenger always had money. . . .his earlier experience taught him that you lower expectation by starting a "youth policy" than actually splashing the cash.When he does splash,be it at Monaco or Arsenal,he has wasted money just like many other managers

Wetin go give me joy,apart from United winning the League,is Chelski finishing above Gunners.If they can settle that Grant licensing issue,Chelski will definitely overtake the Gunners.

I will love to see those Gunners wey dey laugh since.As long Chelski no catch us sha This season is going to be one of the best seasons ever.

Banderas:
I-man, according to your theory then, he's also better than SAF.

Probably. . . .what ever you think of him,you can't be too dismissive of the man.He has managed to finish above Arsenal in the previous 2 seasons,suddenly,because Arsenal have a 6 points lead over him in October,people are dismissing Liverpool.

Reserve judgment till the end of the season.His record since he came to the Premiership is much better than Wenger's,if he is not such a good manager despite all his trophies,what are we to make Wenger who has an allergy to winning trophies in Europe

somze:
Oh brotha, now we're back to arguing managers

Yes. . . . with Avram Grant,no surprise you don't want to speak about managers.

If Benitez is not as good as Wenger,how come he has won 2 league titles and and 2 European trophies in the last 5 years?Remind me how many of the latter Wenger has won

It seems Milan have no ambition to win the League title.They are content with finishing in the top 4 and aiming only for the Champions League.How many pensioners can you have in a team.

To be fair, they didn't have Jankulowski and Oddo available

somze:
I put that up looking at it from your view of current form . . . look at the passed 3 games or whatever number you term current form to be, who has been better Fabregas, Messi, Elano, Kaka?

How can you tell a player's current form by looking at his team's result?

There is something people are not considering.Liverpool are only 6 points behind Arsenal and Utd with a game advantage over Utd.If Utd lose on Saturday and Liverpool were to win their 2 games they will be level with Utd.

If Liverpool were to be knocked out at the group stages of the UCL,that gives a massive advantage over their rivals in the Premiership in the 2nd part of the season.Liverpool are as much title contenders as any other in the Prem.Their poor performance in the UCL is an advantage in the Prem

somze:
I-man
For someone screaming about current form . . . I wonder how you thought Elano or anyone else can be compared to Fabregas at the moment.

For the sake of clarity -
[list]
[li]Barca lost in the la liga - Messi[/li]
[li]Milan lost in the Serie A - kaka[/li]
[li]Man City lost in the EPL - Elano[/li]
[li]Fabregas salvaged a point for his side[/li]
[/list]

Barca lost in La Liga?Is that a subtle way of admitting you don't know what you are talking about? Surely if you watch La Liga,not only will you know something as basic as results,you will know of Messi's form

Beyond that,what has a team 'losing' their last game have to do with who is currently the best midfielder in the world? So Kaka is not as good as De Rossi because Milan lost to Roma?

Banderas:
I-man, can I ask you a purely hypothetical question? If Arsenal had scored each of our 4 shots on goal, yet played in the same manner, would you have felt we could win the premiership?

I would have changed my prediction from 3rd place to 2nd place for Gunners. The thing with 'hypotheticals' is that they belong in the realm of fantasy. . . .the reality is that Arsenal are a notoriously wasteful side.It was because of their wastefulness that ended trophyless last season.To a certain extent,they are beginning to curb that but you see wastefulness creeping in now and again to rob them of vital points.

One hypothetical point leads to another,if Arsenal converted their first chance,the course of the game would have changed as Liverpool wouldn't have had to effectively sit back to defend an early lead for most of the game.Where does that lead us?

@Jackal

Did you see PSG v Lyon last nite?Karim Benzema must be the best young striker on the planet.He didn't score but he was outstanding.Fergie should buy him at any cost whatsoever

Jackal:
@ A-40,
Fabregas the best in Europe? He is not even the best midfielder in the Premiership.
Has Fabregas done better than Wayne Rooney this season? I serioously doubt that.

Elano has been more impressive.

So Fabregas on current form is better than Kaka,Riberry or Messi Priceless

@Bandy

The reason why we are behind you in the table,is that in games against City,Reading and Pompey,we completely outclassed our opponents but couldn't pick up the 3 points.No points are awarded for fancy football as we saw at the beginning of the season and Arsenal saw last season and last nite.If you outplay your opponents and don't win. . . at the end, you are not any better than your opponent-result wise.

People say Arsenal were so good last nite they fired the ball into the stands on 2 occasions when they had an empty net to aim for.Yes, good performance but that single game doesn't change my opinion either way.

I remember Chelski coming to Anfield and winning 4-1,that single performance convinced me of Chelski's title credentials.Nothing I saw yesterday swayed my opinion either way

somze:
[li]Define current form and how many games are involved? [/li]

Your most recent games define your current form.Liverpool's most recent games at Anfield tell us they are going through a bad patch at home whoever they play-Birmingham,Marseille,Spurs and Arsenal

By your definition which team is in a better form - ManU or Arsenal?

Both teams have been playing struggling teams-For Arsenal-Bolton,Sunderland,Sparta Prague and now Liverpool.Same goes for United but I think Utd edges it by the sheer consistency in which they defeat these teams with high scorelines.Utd's win against Villa was the biggest away win in the Premiership this season.

# Please kindly state out Roma's current away form, begin from their loss to ManU
Wink

The point was Milan's home form,just like Liverpool's home form.Ordinarily,you would think Roma's performance was wonderful and indeed it was. . . but you can't ignore the fact that Milan haven't won at home in the Serie A.That context puts Roma's otherwise impressive performance in its proper perspective.If you isolate just one game,you can draw any conclusion,if you look at games in a context,your conclusions are more nuanced and more apt .

Banderas:
I-man, I'm disappointed in you. And for a while I was beginning to think that you were actually quite honest and sincere when you watch football. Analysts in the UK called that match "The best so far this season", but the great I-man calls it "least impressive". It's all good.

Was it not the same analysts that claimed Arsenal might finish outside the top 4? Against Marseille,Liverpool didn't manage one single attempt on target untill the dying minutes. . . .that was how one sided the game was.

If people say yesterday's game was "the best so far",that tells us nothing about whether Arsenal's performance was better than Spurs or Marseille.Simple comprehension

Ray Houghton said exactly the same thing I said.Lots of possesion but not particularly impressive in the final 3rd of the pitch. . . .4 attempts on target in 90 mins of football.

somze:
A-40
You'd be forgiven if you say Fabregas is the best in the world at the moment
Kid is a wonder.

Yes,better than Messi,Zlatan and Riberry.A singular focus on one league they worry people.Strangely,Luis Aragones doesn't share your sentiments. . . . maybe its because he doesn't focus on only the Prem and has the opportunity to see his midfield rivals in closer quarters.Context again,my friend

somze:
I-man
What is your point?
Did Arsenal play well or not?
How can you judge them against another team's performance?
How biased can you be?

My point is that outplaying Liverpool,in Liverpool's present form,is akin to outplaying Newcastle or West Ham.I'm not impressed by Utd's wins over Wigan and Boro since the form of those teams are appalling.Nor am I impressed by Arsenal's performance at Anfield since Liverpool's form is appalling.

When you play a team struggling for form,they make you look impressive.Was Arsenal good yesterday?Yes,but they were only playing Liverpool who made Marseille and Spurs look like Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

You look at football in a context.See yesterday's game at the San Siro?Are Roma not the best team in Europe since they totally outclassed Milan or does the match tell us something about Milan's form at the San Siro.To suggest for one moment that the question of form is irrelevant in football is the height of folly.

Should I say we are better than ManU since you guys lost to Man City and we thrashed them 6-0 or should I dare say we are better than Arsenal at the moment since they could only manage a 1-0 victory.

If Chelski were to play either United or Arse at the Bridge,they will triumph over both teams.On current form they are better than those two and if they keep up that form,they will overtake both us and Arsenal.

Not that anyone can see what City's earlier games against Arse and Utd have to do with current form. . . .but there you go,that's what I have come to expect on football forums.

somze:
I-man
Had Liverpool lost any game on Anfield in the premiership?

Did Arsenal defeat Liverpool yesterday?No.

Was their performance better than that of Spurs and Marseille?Nope,it was less impressive.Marseille did actually win and and Spurs conceded an equaliser in the last minute of stoppage time.Beyond that,the overall performances were better than Arsenal's.Its a question of context.You don't just watch a single game and draw conclusions.What are you blithering about your 2-0 loss to Utd?

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=16992.msg1627996#msg1627996 date=1193653352]@I-man
Surely your brain must have been on hibernate when you where watching that game[/quote]Fool!Was Arsenal's performance better than Olympique Marseille or Spurs at Anfield?As a Gunner,I expect you to praise your team to the high heavens. . . .at the end of the season when you have won only the FA Cup you will be complaining

bolaoni:
tkb, na wa o. I pray it is not true sha.

The result of the second scan hasn't even come out and they are speculating about how long he will be out for.As far as I know,he felt some pain in his knee and the scan revealed nothing.They are going to do further scans to see what the problem is,until then we can't say how long he will be out.

It could be anything,he could even return next week if nothing is found again and there is no pain anymore in his knee.

I don't understand why a performance at Anfield which was bettered by the likes of Spurs and Marseille is seen in itself as evidence of Arsenal's strenght this season.The evidence of Arsenal's strenght can be deduced from their overall performances throughout the season,this match didn't particularly impress me.

Maybe most people never bothered to watch Liverpool play Marseille or Spurs.If you did,you will understand that outplaying Liverpool at Anfield at the moment is something even relegation battlers in both France and England have been pulling off far better than Arsenal did yesterday.

I have watched 3 games Liverpool played at Anfield-against Spurs,Marseille and Arsenal.Of the 3,Arsenal were the least impressive.A lack of context is always detrimental to any analysis.

somze:
I doubt if they know fear . . . did you watch the match yesterday?

Who do you think was afraid?

They were facing a Liverpool side desperately short of confidence and which had only won one game at Anfield in their last 5.If you put that match in perspective,Arsenal's performance was good but it was less impressive than the performances of Marseille and Spurs earlier at Anfield.That is the context within which one should look at the game.

Overall,the 1-1- draw at Anfield was a good result for United.Liverpool are only 6 points behind us with a game in hand.If they get knocked out at the group stages of the Champions League,they will have a considerable advantage over the rest of their rivals.Getting knocked out early in the Champions League can be worth an extra 6-10 points in the League