₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
He is a THIEF calling others Cult simply because we are teaching the truth that is jeopardizing his chances of extorting money from people.
If you don't see him as a thief that's your own opinion but from my own biblical perspective the guy is a thief!

If he called your organization cult, then he is also wrong and I hope he also apologize.
But two wrong do not make a right.

Thanks

MaxInDHouse:
He's just a thief using the old traditional way of threatening people to join religion (Hellfire)
Apart from that he knows nothing that is why he always feels bad when he notice how competent JWs are so since he can't back what he's saying with God's word his next comment is "you will burn in hell"
If Jesus is the father then who was Jesus praying to?
To whom was Jesus being loyal?
Was he praying to himself and loyal to himself?
Compare to the two artistic impressions below and see which one is the real Jesus!

Max
Calling someone a thief is not civil and it is disrespectful. Please, retract the statement or apologize. Please.

MaxInDHouse:
When God appointed David as king in Israel does that makes David another creature than man?
So when God appointed one of His sons in heaven as judge it doesn't change his being as one of God's sons to God Himself.
Pastor Piri get that into your empty skull!

Jesus is not one of the many sons. Jesus is the only son. Hebrews 1:5 from your own Bible.
Hebrews 1:5; For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?

So, if you want to add angels to it don't forget to add Adam because he was as called the son of God in Luke 3:38.
And don't forget to add us too because we are also sons and daughters of God.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
The differences between Jesus and us are:

1. Jesus is God but we are gods
2. Jesus is the one appointed to judge the dead and the living.

Correct sir.
The difference between the Father and the Son are
1. The Son proceeds from the Father, the Father proceeds from mo one.
2. The Father delegated ALL his powers to the Son while the Son returns all the glory to the Father.

SIR, YOU HAVE NOT REPLIED TO MY SEVEN POINTS RESOLUTION. I WILL BE EXPECTING YOUR RESPONSE.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
The fullness of God dwells in Jesus. Haven’t you read that?

Yes sir.
Just like the fullness of Christ dwells in me and you. But are we Christ because his fullness dwells in us?
This is Bible interpretation sir. There is no relationship that happens between the Father a d the son that the son does not accord the same between us and him.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
So, what have I said differently?

If we can agree on the following then, it means we are just speaking for the same thing in different forms.
1. The Father is God
2. The Son is God
3. Thw holy spirit is the spirit of God (Father and Son)
4. The Father is greater than the son.
5. The Son is subject to the Father.
6. The Son is supreme over all things except the Father.
7. The Father is supreme over all things including the Son.

Do we agree sir or are there still grey areas you don't agree?

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
So, are you saying the Holy Spirit is lesser than Jesus because he receives instructions from Jesus?

Yes sir. That is what is consistent with scriptures sir. John 16:13-15
1. The holy spirit cannot speak of his own (he can only say what Christ has released to him to say)
2. He does not bring glory to himself but to Christ.

These two attributes are what Jesus does to the Father, the Holy spirit does the same to the son, but the Father does that to no one.
Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
How many times will you bring up this diagram?

Yea, I totally agree.
But the three personalities is one God. One God in three persons.

This is why the Holy Spirit is called Spirit of God and also called Spirit of Christ.

Your carnal mind certainly cannot grasp this truth.

You receive it in your spirit that is born again.

Ken
No sir. Okay, what will you say about the seven spirits of God in Revelation. Are they also God? Let's just keep to the scriptures by saying that the holy spirit is the spirit of God and of Christ. Because that spirit is subject to the Son as the son is subject to the God.
The Father is God
The Son is God
The Spirit is the spirit of God (both the Father and the son)

This is the position of the scriptures sir.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
John 14:9-11
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I AM IN THE FATHER, and THE FATHER IN ME: or else believe me for the very works' sake

Notice what Jesus said above:

1. He that has seen me has seen the father.

What does this statement mean to you?

2. I am in the Father and the Father in me.

They are inseparable. Jesus is exact replica of his Father.

Sir.
Interpretation of the scriptures is Key sir.
Now, let me explain John 14 to you sir. Jesus was speaking to the disciples about the Father and all that the Father has in preparation for the saints. Jesus started the introduction by saying, "you believe in God, believe also in me." That is, as much as you have trust in God's words, trust also in my words that when I live you, it is to prepare a place where both you and I will be. So, Jesus was asking his disciples to trust him like they would if God has spoken to them directly.
Philip was curious and was like, "can we even see this Father that you are talking so much about, if we can speak to him, it will be well with us, that is, our belief will be more assured. But Jesus, reaffirming what he said in verse 1, told Philip that he doesn't necessarily have to see the Father because everything he says has been authorized by the Father since he only speaks the will of the Father. It is just like when you are the CEO of your father's company and your father is the Chairman. A company came to deal with your company and you gave them your word but they still insist on seeing the Chairman who is your father. The best response you can give to them is to tell them, "Don't worry, whatever I tell you is what my father will tell you, best rest assured that you got the contract, there is not need for you to see my father, I am his representative and I speak his mind, so be rest assured."

That is the interpretation of the conversation sir. It is try that Jesus is the replica of the Father, but you know also that the word "replica" should that something replicates another, so there are two things. The Father on one hand and the Son (the Father's replica) on the other hand.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
Jesus said his Father is greater than him because he is subject to him. But that doesn't make him a lesser God in his very nature. In just the same way you are not less human because you are subject to your boss.

Do you know that the Holy Spirit is subject to Jesus instruction? Does it make the Holy Spirit a lesser God?

That a husband is the head of his wife doesn't make the wife less human.

Sir.
I think what we have issues with here is ENGLISH. There are three possibilities: greater than, lesser than and equal to. The only time an equation is balanced is when it is equal to. If one is greater than, then the other is lesser than.
Now, there is not scriptures that says the Holy Spirit is God. No single scriptures. So, let's stick to what the scriptures say that the holy Spirit is the spirit of god and of Christ.
The Father sent the son and the son sent the spirit. The Father is not answerable to the son but the son is answerable and obeys the Father. Sir, the son proceeds from the Father, the Father does not proceed from the son. Etc.
Sir, the issue hear is that you need to know the difference between EQUITY and EQUALITY.
EQUITY is a fair distribution where each person did not collect or have equal measure but they have they rightful measure they deserve. For instance, a person works for an hour and collected $50 while the other person works for 2 hours and collected $100 that is equity and that is what happens between a man and his wife and between the Father and his Son. Where both are highly honored and glorified which the accord that is due to them.
EQUALITY on the other hand is a 50/50 thing and that does not exist in a good family system where a woman believes that she must act in the exact form as her husband, such family will end in chaos. The Son does and will never drag the position of the Father as His God and Progenitor, that is why Jesus always accord everything to his father.

Sir, I hope you can just understand that talking about the position of the Father being higher that his Son Jesus doesn't diminish Jesus' position in any ways because the Son did not come to glorify himself but that the Father will be ultimately glorified in the Son.

Thanks. But you have not explained that 1 Corinthians 15:21-22. Please, quote it and explain each statement of the verses. Will really help us understand each other.

sonmvayina:
My own path. With my own experiences, me stakes and all.
WIth the universal laws to guide me

What are the universe laws sir. Can you itemize some?
Thanks

sonmvayina:
I left because , he was just a distraction to my spiritual journey.

Okay sir.
What path do you follow now on your spiritual journey.

Ken4Christ:
Jesus is not the Father, I agree. But they are different personalities of the same God. This is the point I am making. You can't separate them. The Father is in Jesus and Jesus is in the Father.

Exactly sir. Just as we are in him.
Now, the Father is God, the Son is also God. Correct.
In that Godhead. The son admitted that the Father is greater than him. We cannot overlook that statement of our Lord.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 also stated it clearly that the Son derived his power and authority from the Father and at the end of this dispensation when the salvation of mankind would be complete, the Son himself will subject himself under the authority of the Father and then the Father will be One and Supreme over all.
Sir, read that 1 Corinthians and give me your view over it.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
So, tell your wife she is inferior to you and notice her reaction

She knows, that is why she is submissive to me and I treat her with utmost love and respect. Thanks.

sonmvayina:
See Isaiah 45: 7
God is responsible for both good and evil.
You think evil can happen and God would not know about it? Not possible. For it to happen, it means God has okayed it.
People can believe what ever they like. Believe is free. But there is only one version of the truth. It is just for you to know it. Nobody will force you to believe it by faith.

"My people suffer for lack of knowledge".....so says the Lord.

Sir.
First and foremost, the passage you quoted was not just any knowledge. It is the knowledge of God because the priest then rejected God's knowledge. That aside.
We didn't talk about any scriptures, I only replied to you message where you said you left Christianity.
Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
Jesus said that because he was in human flesh that had limitations.

Concerning Jesus being the express image of God, have you forgotten where he said: "He that has seen me as seen the Father"

God is the first and the last. Jesus also said he is the first and the last. Common sense should let you know that they are the same person.

No sir.
Your point is wrong sir, sorry to say that.
Jesus is not the Father. What Jesus was telling Philip in John 14 was that he has the authority to do everything because the father has entrusted all things to him so therefore Philip do not need to see the Father for him to be sure of his salvation.
Remember in verse 1, the statement of Jesus was that of assurance. "You believe in God, believe also in me."

Across scriptures it is evident from Jesus and the apostle that the Father is the Father and Jesus is the son of the Father.
1. The Father is god and supreme over all things.
2. Jesus is god and supreme over all other things except the Father.
3. The Holy spirit is the spirit of God sent in Jesus' name as a seal to guide and lead believers into the promises of God both on this earth and to the kingdom of Christ in the earth to come.

The person of these three as explained above is the position and what is consistent with scriptures. Anything added to their person or subtracted from their person is not consistent with scriptures.
The scriptures alone is our constitution and our order both. Any addition or subtraction belongs to the dunghill.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
So, the wife is inferior to her husband?

Yes. A wife is inferior to the husband and the husband is superior to the wife. But it is not a master servant relationship but a relationship where on leads and the opinion of the other is also respected.

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
Yes. The Almighty God in the visible form.

Sir.
The correct quotation of that scriptures is
Hebrews 1:3a
"For Christ is the express image of the invisible God..."
Express image does mean he is the same person. It only means of the same look, likeness and substance just like I am the express of my own father, I look like him, talk like him, have the same genotype and blood group and have some obvious elements of his Character.
Jesus is the representative of the Father to humans, God sent his son in his own likeness and substance but the Father is different from the Son.
For instance, the Father knows when the Son will appear for his second coming but the son himself does not know. He himself said it.
Matthew 24:36
[36]“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, [/b]not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.[b]

Thanks.

Ken4Christ:
Are you inferior to your boss in the office? Please answer, yes or no.

Is the wife inferior to her husband?

Yes sir.
When I have an issue with my felli ranking colleague, the advice is that we should report to our superior officer which is our boss.
So, my boss is my superior so therefore I am inferior to my boss.
Just like saying, he is my senior, it means I am his junior.
The man is the head of the wife meaning he is the leader and the superior in ranking. Though it is not a master-slave relationship like Jesus is not a slave to his father but he accepts his position only second to the Father but he is above all else.
Or is it fact that because the scriptures called us Joint heirs with Christ does that make us equal and of the same level with Christ? Is Christ not the Head of the Church as the Father is the Head of Christ Himself? Christ is above all except the Father who his above Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:21-22

Truthseeker10:
You don't want to argue because you've made a blunder you can't get out of. So you have no logical arguments left.

You claim everybody should be worshipped according to the Bible except Satan. All of a sudden you came up with "absolute worship" that you've not shown us in the bible.
Oga what is the Greek word for "absolute worship", where does the Bible make mention of it?

You also claimed that Jesus said no one should be called Father. So what is the Greek word for the "Father" that you call at home and The Greek word for the "Father" that Jesus said no one should bear.

Please come and answer. Don't run away.

Thanks God sir, you cannot be a judge in your case.
People must have read through our chat and grab what you are missing and also decide who and what we both stand for. I don't celebrate like but you can tell yourself from the likes.

sonmvayina:
Thank goodness that I gave up Christianity.
It is full with contradictions and confusions.

Ha, some believe in Trinity, others don't
Some believe in tithe others don't

Such confused individuals...

I am sorry you made that decision sir. In a family, we have children who are shy and we have those who are outspoken. We have those who are short and those who are tall. We even have those who are nice and those who are mean.
Sir, we don't have to do or believe in entirely same thing to be one big family. At least we all agree that the creator do not support evil but good and that we should do to other what we want done to us and not do to others what we don't want done to us. I hope you reconsider sir.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Oga come back here...
Do you think you are smart?
You claim everybody should be worshipped according to the Bible except Satan. All of a sudden you came up with "absolute worship" that you've not shown us in the bible.
Oga what is the Greek word for "absolute worship", where does the Bible make mention of it?

You also claimed that Jesus said no one should be called Father. So what is the Greek word for the "Father" that you call at home and The Greek word for the "Father" that Jesus said no one should bear.

Please come and answer. Don't run away.

You are just getting to know me on this platform.
I don't argue...I just make myself clear on scriptures. The choice is yours and the research and restudy of all I have said is yours too.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
What is the Greek word for "father" and what does it mean?


Does Matthew 28:18 makes mention of "absolute worship" That you claim belongs to only God?

Where does the Bible mention "absolute worship" that is different from other "worship"?

What is the Greek word for "absolute worship"?

Sir.
You are just rigmaroling. If you don't understand what I explained, maybe you will reread it as many times as you can so that when you finally understand the ones I have answered then you can ask further questions.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So why do you still call your dad "father" when Jesus says that you should not?


Are you saying that the Greek word for "absolute worship" is "pas"? Kindly show me where "pas" is translated as "absolute worship" in the bible.

You didn't read at all sir.
Jesus did not say I shouldn't call my dad father. He was only saying that God is the giver of all life(Father) and no one is worthy to be accorded that.
I did not say "pas" is absolute worship. I said "pas" is absolute which means all. Read Matthew 28:18 in Greek.

MaxInDHouse:
Is Paul Roman or adopted nationality?
Is Greek the language of Romans?
Why did all New Testament writers use Greek if they are not from Greece?

Paul was Roman by Birth not nationality. Jesus like a Nigerian parents who gave birth to an American citizen. Is such a child a citizen by birth or nationality?

MaxInDHouse:
Is Paul Roman or adopted nationality?
Is Greek the language of Romans?
Why did all New Testament writers use Greek if they are not from Greece?

Max.
You want me to take you down history.
But let me just sum it like this in a way u can understand but you still need to go for further research but this is the summary of the research you will find.
Latin language was the local language of the Romans.
Greek/Koine Greek was the international language of the Romans because before the Alexander the Great, the Greece/Greek were dominant and spread to the east so also is the language. The Romans adopted the language which they use to interact in the diaspora. They conquered the world and spread Greek language as the spread so that their colonise will have one language and make it easier for them to govern.
The Jews had been on this colonialism before Jesus and the Apostles were born. So, they were all born into a Greek speaking community which became a natural language to all.
There are a lot of storyline under it but that is not necessary to divulge at this time. You can do research on the Roman Empire and hiw they ruked the world.

So, none of the apostles spoke Hebrew or Latin. They only spoke Greek and Aramaic (note, Aramaic was seen as a more culturally integrated language than the Greek).

Thanks

MaxInDHouse:
Which Bible writers was Greek by birth?
Thank you!

Lol...Max.
Paul was a Roman citizen by birth born in Tarsus.
Acts of the Apostles 22:27-28
[27]So the commander went over and asked Paul, “Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?”“Yes, I certainly am,” Paul replied.
[28]“I am, too,” the commander muttered, “and it cost me plenty!”[/b]Paul answered, “But I am a citizen by birth!”[b]

All the apostles including Jesus were born as Greek speaking colonized Jewish citizens. All of them spoke Greek and Aramaic from birth. None spoke Hebrew. Even before Jesus was born, the Hebrew Torah and other minor prophets were translated to Greek so the younger ones will be able to read and study it.

You still have a lot to learn sir on the originality of the scriptures and the person of their writers. Even most of the scriptures were not originally from the attributed writers but was dedicated in their honor. For instance, there were proof in the scriptures that Moses did not write the Deuteronomy. But that is a study on its own. You have a lot to study beyond the four walls of your hall sir.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So in what context is it wrong to call dad "father"?

What do you mean by absolute worship? What's the Greek word for "worship" and what's the Greek word for "absolute worship"?

1. Father in Greek means "someone who gives life (to the child). So, what Jesus meant was to let us know that it is only Almighty God who gives life to all men and that occurred should not be given to anyone else.

2. I obey my parents as a child should but I don't obey them in all things but I obey god in all things. I worship my parents but I don't worship them in absolute but I worship God in absolute.

3. The Greek word is [/b]pas[b] which means all, everything, fullness.
So, absolute worship means, to worship in all fullness and in everything. I don't do that to my parents, my worship of them is not absolute but my worship to God is absolute in all fullness and in everything.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
The original language of Bible writers is Hebrew not Greek they borrowed this language because it's the common language most people back then understands.
So if they had to use Hebrew no one was worshiped by faithful people except the only true God but because they used another language that's why you want to argue now that someone else apart from the only true God should be worshiped.

Ahhhh...Max.
The New Testament was never written in Hebrew sir. No sir. Only the Old Testament was written in Hebrew.
Jesus never spoke Hebrew. Paul never spoke Hebrew. None of the Apostles spoke Hebrew language.
They all were born to Speak Greek and Aramaic language. All the New testament were ALL written in Greek from Matthew to Revelation with few elements of Aramaic (especially in Jesus statement).
Max. I have always tell you to give yourself to learning in order to annex your full potential.

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know the type of person you really are!

Are you saying all languages have a way to interpret each word?

If Greeks rendered the word LOVE alone in almost 7 different ways whereas English uses the same word LOVE that shows you can't always translate languages word for word to drive home the message of an author who speaks another language.

Jesus keep talking about OBEDIENCE to the son of God not worship so if we can use both words then whenever that Greek word is used for Jesus it could only mean OBEISANCE NOT WORSHIP!

No sir.
The English translation is inconsequential in comparison to the Greek because the Greek is the original language of the writer.
When the Greek uses different words for a thing, then we should abide by it and if our language cannot accommodate the diversity, then we should maintain the exact words as in a borrowed word instead of using the same word for different words in the original.
Also, it is wrong to use different words for a unanimous word used in the original. It is a distortion of the original language that did not make provision for two different words to be used for the same word.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Explain Matthew 4:10.

King James Bible
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

New King James Version
Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve

Is there a difference in the three words("to knew before", "obeisance" and "worship" ) or they all mean the same thing?

They all mean the same thing in Greek which is the original. So English interpretation is inconsequential in this case.
Back to your Matthew 4:10.
1. What was Satan asking Jesus to do? Simple, Satan was asking Jesus to "BOW/FALL DOWN" (pipto) in Greek to "worship or pay obeisance" (proskuneo) in Greek but Jesus refused.
Note two things Jesus said in verse 10.
1. Worship
2. Service

Note: These two things are also done to men but not in totality just like you call your dad "father" but not in the context Jesus forbids.
Or
Will you say it is wrong to tell a servant to SERVE his master? Or would you say it is wrong for a citizen to BOW DOWN before the king of his town?
But we know that in both occasions we are not regarding that to absolute worship, service or fatherhood as we would to god.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Some languages have boundaries which makes it difficult for translators to work on the correct interpretation of what the original author meant.
For instance the Greek language you keep talking about has several rendition for one English word "LOVE"
EROS~ romantic
PHILIA~ friendly
AGAPE~ unconditional
LUDUS~ playful relationship
STORGE~ family relationship
PHILAUTIA~ self worth or esteem
PRAGMA~ has outgrown challenges
Do you think it can make sense to a Greek reading your article if you apply EROS to the love you have for a car?

So if the Greek translating what you wrote before his friend now apply LUDUS then suddenly another person insisted that in English (language of the original author) there is no separate rendering for LOVE but choose to us EROS instead how does that sound to you?

Jesus never ask anyone to worship him instead he consistently emphasize on obedience to what he says because it's from his father who dearly loves and trusted him. So a reasonable translator will make use of his own initiative while choosing the best English rendition to drive home the message which is OBEISANCE!

Max.
You know you are being clever by half.

The example you cited about love is in direct opposite of worship we are discussing and u shot urself in the leg.

Now, both errors come from English and you made both errors yourself. See the error you made.
1. Greek has many words for love but your English used love for all the Greek word and they are all different.

2. Greek used ONE word alone for worship, but your English version used two different words.

Can you see clearly that the error is NEVER in the Greek words but in your English in both case you raised that are even different in the first place.

Love in Greek are different and diverse but your English made it one.
Worship in Greek is one and the same but you English made it different. LOL.

THANKS.