₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
You don't want to argue because you've made a blunder you can't get out of. So you have no logical arguments left.

You claim everybody should be worshipped according to the Bible except Satan. All of a sudden you came up with "absolute worship" that you've not shown us in the bible.
Oga what is the Greek word for "absolute worship", where does the Bible make mention of it?

You also claimed that Jesus said no one should be called Father. So what is the Greek word for the "Father" that you call at home and The Greek word for the "Father" that Jesus said no one should bear.

Please come and answer. Don't run away.

Thanks God sir, you cannot be a judge in your case.
People must have read through our chat and grab what you are missing and also decide who and what we both stand for. I don't celebrate like but you can tell yourself from the likes.

sonmvayina:
Thank goodness that I gave up Christianity.
It is full with contradictions and confusions.

Ha, some believe in Trinity, others don't
Some believe in tithe others don't

Such confused individuals...

I am sorry you made that decision sir. In a family, we have children who are shy and we have those who are outspoken. We have those who are short and those who are tall. We even have those who are nice and those who are mean.
Sir, we don't have to do or believe in entirely same thing to be one big family. At least we all agree that the creator do not support evil but good and that we should do to other what we want done to us and not do to others what we don't want done to us. I hope you reconsider sir.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Oga come back here...
Do you think you are smart?
You claim everybody should be worshipped according to the Bible except Satan. All of a sudden you came up with "absolute worship" that you've not shown us in the bible.
Oga what is the Greek word for "absolute worship", where does the Bible make mention of it?

You also claimed that Jesus said no one should be called Father. So what is the Greek word for the "Father" that you call at home and The Greek word for the "Father" that Jesus said no one should bear.

Please come and answer. Don't run away.

You are just getting to know me on this platform.
I don't argue...I just make myself clear on scriptures. The choice is yours and the research and restudy of all I have said is yours too.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
What is the Greek word for "father" and what does it mean?


Does Matthew 28:18 makes mention of "absolute worship" That you claim belongs to only God?

Where does the Bible mention "absolute worship" that is different from other "worship"?

What is the Greek word for "absolute worship"?

Sir.
You are just rigmaroling. If you don't understand what I explained, maybe you will reread it as many times as you can so that when you finally understand the ones I have answered then you can ask further questions.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So why do you still call your dad "father" when Jesus says that you should not?


Are you saying that the Greek word for "absolute worship" is "pas"? Kindly show me where "pas" is translated as "absolute worship" in the bible.

You didn't read at all sir.
Jesus did not say I shouldn't call my dad father. He was only saying that God is the giver of all life(Father) and no one is worthy to be accorded that.
I did not say "pas" is absolute worship. I said "pas" is absolute which means all. Read Matthew 28:18 in Greek.

MaxInDHouse:
Is Paul Roman or adopted nationality?
Is Greek the language of Romans?
Why did all New Testament writers use Greek if they are not from Greece?

Paul was Roman by Birth not nationality. Jesus like a Nigerian parents who gave birth to an American citizen. Is such a child a citizen by birth or nationality?

MaxInDHouse:
Is Paul Roman or adopted nationality?
Is Greek the language of Romans?
Why did all New Testament writers use Greek if they are not from Greece?

Max.
You want me to take you down history.
But let me just sum it like this in a way u can understand but you still need to go for further research but this is the summary of the research you will find.
Latin language was the local language of the Romans.
Greek/Koine Greek was the international language of the Romans because before the Alexander the Great, the Greece/Greek were dominant and spread to the east so also is the language. The Romans adopted the language which they use to interact in the diaspora. They conquered the world and spread Greek language as the spread so that their colonise will have one language and make it easier for them to govern.
The Jews had been on this colonialism before Jesus and the Apostles were born. So, they were all born into a Greek speaking community which became a natural language to all.
There are a lot of storyline under it but that is not necessary to divulge at this time. You can do research on the Roman Empire and hiw they ruked the world.

So, none of the apostles spoke Hebrew or Latin. They only spoke Greek and Aramaic (note, Aramaic was seen as a more culturally integrated language than the Greek).

Thanks

MaxInDHouse:
Which Bible writers was Greek by birth?
Thank you!

Lol...Max.
Paul was a Roman citizen by birth born in Tarsus.
Acts of the Apostles 22:27-28
[27]So the commander went over and asked Paul, “Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?”“Yes, I certainly am,” Paul replied.
[28]“I am, too,” the commander muttered, “and it cost me plenty!”[/b]Paul answered, “But I am a citizen by birth!”[b]

All the apostles including Jesus were born as Greek speaking colonized Jewish citizens. All of them spoke Greek and Aramaic from birth. None spoke Hebrew. Even before Jesus was born, the Hebrew Torah and other minor prophets were translated to Greek so the younger ones will be able to read and study it.

You still have a lot to learn sir on the originality of the scriptures and the person of their writers. Even most of the scriptures were not originally from the attributed writers but was dedicated in their honor. For instance, there were proof in the scriptures that Moses did not write the Deuteronomy. But that is a study on its own. You have a lot to study beyond the four walls of your hall sir.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So in what context is it wrong to call dad "father"?

What do you mean by absolute worship? What's the Greek word for "worship" and what's the Greek word for "absolute worship"?

1. Father in Greek means "someone who gives life (to the child). So, what Jesus meant was to let us know that it is only Almighty God who gives life to all men and that occurred should not be given to anyone else.

2. I obey my parents as a child should but I don't obey them in all things but I obey god in all things. I worship my parents but I don't worship them in absolute but I worship God in absolute.

3. The Greek word is [/b]pas[b] which means all, everything, fullness.
So, absolute worship means, to worship in all fullness and in everything. I don't do that to my parents, my worship of them is not absolute but my worship to God is absolute in all fullness and in everything.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
The original language of Bible writers is Hebrew not Greek they borrowed this language because it's the common language most people back then understands.
So if they had to use Hebrew no one was worshiped by faithful people except the only true God but because they used another language that's why you want to argue now that someone else apart from the only true God should be worshiped.

Ahhhh...Max.
The New Testament was never written in Hebrew sir. No sir. Only the Old Testament was written in Hebrew.
Jesus never spoke Hebrew. Paul never spoke Hebrew. None of the Apostles spoke Hebrew language.
They all were born to Speak Greek and Aramaic language. All the New testament were ALL written in Greek from Matthew to Revelation with few elements of Aramaic (especially in Jesus statement).
Max. I have always tell you to give yourself to learning in order to annex your full potential.

MaxInDHouse:
Now i know the type of person you really are!

Are you saying all languages have a way to interpret each word?

If Greeks rendered the word LOVE alone in almost 7 different ways whereas English uses the same word LOVE that shows you can't always translate languages word for word to drive home the message of an author who speaks another language.

Jesus keep talking about OBEDIENCE to the son of God not worship so if we can use both words then whenever that Greek word is used for Jesus it could only mean OBEISANCE NOT WORSHIP!

No sir.
The English translation is inconsequential in comparison to the Greek because the Greek is the original language of the writer.
When the Greek uses different words for a thing, then we should abide by it and if our language cannot accommodate the diversity, then we should maintain the exact words as in a borrowed word instead of using the same word for different words in the original.
Also, it is wrong to use different words for a unanimous word used in the original. It is a distortion of the original language that did not make provision for two different words to be used for the same word.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Explain Matthew 4:10.

King James Bible
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

New King James Version
Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve

Is there a difference in the three words("to knew before", "obeisance" and "worship" ) or they all mean the same thing?

They all mean the same thing in Greek which is the original. So English interpretation is inconsequential in this case.
Back to your Matthew 4:10.
1. What was Satan asking Jesus to do? Simple, Satan was asking Jesus to "BOW/FALL DOWN" (pipto) in Greek to "worship or pay obeisance" (proskuneo) in Greek but Jesus refused.
Note two things Jesus said in verse 10.
1. Worship
2. Service

Note: These two things are also done to men but not in totality just like you call your dad "father" but not in the context Jesus forbids.
Or
Will you say it is wrong to tell a servant to SERVE his master? Or would you say it is wrong for a citizen to BOW DOWN before the king of his town?
But we know that in both occasions we are not regarding that to absolute worship, service or fatherhood as we would to god.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Some languages have boundaries which makes it difficult for translators to work on the correct interpretation of what the original author meant.
For instance the Greek language you keep talking about has several rendition for one English word "LOVE"
EROS~ romantic
PHILIA~ friendly
AGAPE~ unconditional
LUDUS~ playful relationship
STORGE~ family relationship
PHILAUTIA~ self worth or esteem
PRAGMA~ has outgrown challenges
Do you think it can make sense to a Greek reading your article if you apply EROS to the love you have for a car?

So if the Greek translating what you wrote before his friend now apply LUDUS then suddenly another person insisted that in English (language of the original author) there is no separate rendering for LOVE but choose to us EROS instead how does that sound to you?

Jesus never ask anyone to worship him instead he consistently emphasize on obedience to what he says because it's from his father who dearly loves and trusted him. So a reasonable translator will make use of his own initiative while choosing the best English rendition to drive home the message which is OBEISANCE!

Max.
You know you are being clever by half.

The example you cited about love is in direct opposite of worship we are discussing and u shot urself in the leg.

Now, both errors come from English and you made both errors yourself. See the error you made.
1. Greek has many words for love but your English used love for all the Greek word and they are all different.

2. Greek used ONE word alone for worship, but your English version used two different words.

Can you see clearly that the error is NEVER in the Greek words but in your English in both case you raised that are even different in the first place.

Love in Greek are different and diverse but your English made it one.
Worship in Greek is one and the same but you English made it different. LOL.

THANKS.

Truthseeker10:
Oga I am not arguing with you.
Does the Bible say we should worship everyone including Jesus and his father? Yes or no sir?

By everyone you would mean? Be specific sir. Because Satan is also part of everyone. So, it's a no. But, everyone like my Father and Mother, my older siblings and adults. Yes, I worship them on a daily basis. Take note that I stick to the Greek word "proskuneo" which means either "to knew before", "to pay obeisance" or "to worship."

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So you don't believe that God is three persons(The father, the son, the holy spirit)?

I told you to go read my write up on Trinity and what it really meant. The problem is that you don't wanna dig it out and that is why Max knows my standpoint and he respect me but you don't.
I will be a fool and sentimental to called the holy spirit God when there is no Bible reference to that regard. And I will be a bigger fool to say the son is not god when there are many Bible verses to that regard and I will be the biggest fool to say the Father is not god when there are many Bible verses to that regard.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
😂😂😂so the bible teaches that everyone including Jesus and his father should be worshipped?

MaxInDHouse come and see oo.

If you don't understand Greek and Hebrew you can't understand what I wrote there. Don't you obey (obeisance) your parents? The Greek words is the same as worship. So, don't be surprised when I say you worship your parents, it is still the same words "worship."

Or
Do you think when Jesus said in Matthew 23:9 "Do not call anyone on earth your Father." Do, you think it is a sin to call you Dad, Father? Same thing with worship you parents, do you think and meant serve them like you would God?

Lol.

Truthseeker10:
Do you agree with the diagram below.

No, I don't.
From scriptures, the Father was called god. I have quoted relevant scriptures on that in previous discussions.
From scriptures, the son was called god. I have also quoted relevant scriptures on that in previous discussions.

But, I have never read in the scriptures where the Holy spirit was called god. So, it is not in my place to add or remove form scriptures.

So, I rather stick to calling the holy spirit the spirit of god sent in Christ name as seal upon believers. I do not add or subtract from scriptures. No Sentiments.

Does that answer you question.

Truthseeker10:
Below is Matthew 18:26. Why does the New King James Version Not use Worship?

King James Bible
The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

New King James Version
The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’

Lol.
What is my business with KJV. If you know me, you know I am not Version biased. I look into the original and the original used "worship" and not "fell down."

Humans worship humans, children worship the parents etc.
You are the one that have issue with "worship". I do not have any issues with the word and it is generally used across the scriptures both for men, spirits, angels, the son and the father. So, what concerns me with the biasness of KJV?

Ken4Christ:
Jesus is God. Please, don't use small letter g for Jesus.

He is not inferior to his Father. He is only subject to Him.

The fact that you have a boss in the office doesn't make you inferior to your boss.

Smile
Sir, there is not different between small g and big g because the Greek and Hebrew do not have Capital letters, so whenever you see small or big g, it is all and the same.

Sir, Jesus is God or god anyone is the same "Elohim" or "theos".
The subjectivity of the son to the Father shows that he is Inferior to the Father but superior to all other beings.
The fact that I say the Jesus is inferior to His father does not diminish him at all, it only exalts the Father to be above all including his son.
Let me put it like this.
The word inferior means "less" or "subject" like you put it. So, whether you use Subject or less or inferior, it is one and the same sir, not reduces nor increases the status of the Father's only begotten son.
Jesus himself said it "My Father is greater than I am." Which means in the reverse "I am lesser than my Father."

So sir, using inferior does not reduce Jesus, it only shows that Jesus is supreme over all things except his Father who is supreme over all things including his son. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Context is the answer because people did Obeisance to Moses, Saul, David so because a language doesn't have another way to express two different things shouldn't blind a real scholar from differentiating such words.

Smile.
It's you trying to prove that Obeisance is different from Worship now, as though the scriptures was originally written in English.
And you know you can't corner me.
Max, I have always advised you to study the scriptures in its originality so that you will avoid being boxes.
Now you are talking about context.
You have never answered any of my questions because you know that I bring scriptures from their original Greek and Hebrew and it's difficult to dispel.
Three questions I have asked you and you have been unable to answer and now you added one to it.

1. What is Jehovah in Greek? Or does it not exist in Greek?
2. What is the Biblical proof that Jesus sits on a different throne from his Father as against his claim in Revelation 3:21.
3. Which apostle worked for government and was under the pay of the evil government they opposed was not from God (Herod, Caesars or Pharisees)? And why should Jehovah's Witnesses work for Government they claim was not God ordained?
4. Since the Greek word for worship and obeisance are the same, how is it right to say one cannot be used in exchange for another in the English form since the Greek is the same and there is not distinction in the usage?

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Obeisance means do whatever this one commands.
Worship is rendering sacred service to this one.
Only God deserves our sacred service but in the Bible Moses was given Obeisance, David was given Obeisance, Elijah was given Obeisance by people who had the fear of God none of them was worshiped yet people refer to them as lord!

Max.
Don't be clever by half sir.
Let my quote from your Bible. I have almost all versions of scriptures on my phone. So, let me quote yours and you will answer my question on Obeisance and Worship as used in your own version.
1. Hebrewz 1:6
But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do [/b]obeisance[b] to him.”

2. Revelation 5:14
The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and [/b]worshipped.[b]

Max, this is your JW version.
My Question.
Can you tell me the Greek word(s) used for both Obeisance and Worship?

I put it to you that both are the same Greek word [/b]proskuneo[b] and that they are not different words but for ulterior motive your translators used two different words.

Note: I have the original Greek and Hebrew Bible.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do OBEISANCE to him.”

The word is OBEISANCE not WORSHIP!

What is the difference between Obeisance and Worship? I believe you know the meaning of synonyms.

Max
You have not answered my question:
What is the Greek word for Jehovah or did the word cease to exist in Jesus and the Apostles' days?

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So the Angels worship a God who is not the Almighty God?

You know I don't like argument.
The Father has handed everything over to his son until the end of age when the son will in turn hand everything over to the Father and the Father will be supreme over all. For now until that time, the son is supreme over all in heaven and on earth because the father has raised his son to that status.
1 Corinthians 15:27-28
[27]For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So the Angels Worship a God who is not the Almighty?

Can your explain Hebrews 1:6 otherwise?
Hebrews 1:6
[6]And when he brought his supreme Son into the world, God said,
[/b]“Let all of God’s angels worship him.”[b]

Truthseeker10:
StillDtruth claims that God Almighty calls Jesus God but Jesus is not the Almighty God in Hebrews 1:8. He claims that The angels worship Jesus who is not the Almighty God. Is he correct?

tctrills
StillDtruth
Dtruthspeaker
Emusan
Immaculatesense
Janosky
MaxInDHouse
Steep
Aemmyjah
doffman
cornelboy
Westerhoffe
Everyday247
gohf
Kobojunkie
Ken4Christ
Gabrielshow24

Your contribution to his claims are welcome.

His point is the position of the scriptures sir.
If a goat calls itself the son of a man, it means that goat is claiming to be a man.
Jesus said he is the son of God thereby making himself equal with God (John 5:18)
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, [/b]thereby making himself equal with God.[b]

Therefore Jesus is god in his nature and essence lower and inferior only to the Father who alone is the One and True God of all.

Thanks.

StillDtruth:
Did I not already say that where in the bible do you see a person judged for failing to believe?

Okay.
Good.
Thanks sir.

StillDtruth:
And I have a answered, the same way all men are Judged which is, your father accuses you of sleeping with his 3rd wife; guilty or not guilty?

Or Tochi accuses you of cheating him because he trusted you as his brother by selling him a swampy land when you knew that he was trying to buy a dry land to do his carpentry business. And when he asked for refund, you refused, guilty or not guilty?

Romans 2:14 Which nation does not have and know these Laws and that they should not be done?

That is the import of my answer.

Good sir.
So, you agree that their are some people who will be judged by their WORKS and not by whether they believe in Jesus or not.

Thanks.

StillDtruth:
This is where I get to remind you of Samuel's error. Remember he saw one of David's brothers as good and as acceptable but God answered him "No".

So, this is where you I remind you again that God Said "His thoughts are not your thoughts and His Ways, not your Ways"

Thus, whom you call honourable are often guilty of secret sins eg adultery, sleeping with father's wife, or brothers wife, murder etc

Then, lastly, where in the bible do you see anyone convicted because "they did not believe"? Was it Noah's world? Or Pharaoh over Abram's wife or Sodom and Gomorrah? Etc

Did you not read that man is condemned because he has done evil?

You have not answered my question directly. Before Jesus came, Africa has existed and they were not Jews. When Jesus came, Africa has existed before Jesus gospel was brought.
My question is: How will the Just God judge this people who lived by their conscience during these periods. Use your answer to explain Romans 2:14-16. Make sure you read the verse before you respond.

Thanks.

jaephoenix:
I don't know. That question is not related to my own question

It does sir.
You asked the evidence of God.
I believe that God created a male hen and a female hen and they mate and the female produced eggs and thus the life circle of the hen continues till this day.
Atheista disagree with this creation story. So I ask them and none of them could answer.

Which one existed first?
The HEN or The EGG

StillDtruth:
Which started only after Kim's father took power in the 70s.. but before that they had Christianity.

StillDtruth
I have taken a bit of time to read some of your perspectives on this platform especially on this fragile topic. Let me engage you a bit so I can have some clarity and also know your complete line of thoughts.
OUR ANCESTORS
We all know and history has proven it that Christianity came to Nigeria in the 17th century before it began to spread. So, let's say, after 1600 years when the good news of Christ was preached, Jesus was first heard and preached in Nigeria 1600 later.
Some of our fathers (not all) must have lived honorable lives during those years and many must have lived dishonorable lives during those years too. Those who lived honorable lives may not have written laws but maybe oral traditions, home training and conscience especially must have played roles in how they lived.
Some may have stood against murder, human sacrifices, and other social vices during their time. At least, we all know of how virginity amongst women was strictly ensured during those years which show that they must have some grand normal and social laws that some must have upheld as standard in those days.
These our honorable fathers just like Job (who was not even an Israelite but a Gentile during his days) didn't even have the opportunity to even hear of Christ not to talk about accepting whom they had not even heard about.
Do you think it will be Just for a Just God like our heavenly Father to send these honorable men to eternal damnation on the basis of "They Didn't Believe In Jesus."?
While You provide your answer. Please, consider the book of Romans 2:14-16.

Thank you.

ezekieloe:
By Bayo Wahab of Vanguard News

Senator Ireti Kingibe, representing the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), has countered Senator Natasha Akpoti-Uduaghan’s claim about the seating reassignment in the Senate.

Senator Natasha recently sparked a controversy in the Red Chamber when the Senate President, Godswill Akpabio, reallocated her seat.
Her reaction to the seating arrangement sparked drama in the Senate during plenary as the lawmaker representing Kogi Central refused to move to the new seat assigned to her.

Natasha later raised her hand to speak but was denied recognition because she was not speaking from the seat assigned to her.
Angered by this, she raised her voice in protest, accusing Akpabio of denying her of her privilege.
Subsequently, the Senate unanimously voted to refer her to the Committee on Ethics, Privileges, and Public Petitions for disciplinary review.
However, while appearing on Arise TV on Friday, February 28, 2025, Senator Natasha claimed that the seating arrangement was part of a ploy to frustrate legislative duties.

She also accused Senator Akpabio of sexual harassment, alleging that the Senate President has, on two occasions, demanded an intimate relationship from her.

Reacting to Natasha’s claim about the seating arrangement, Kingibe, while appearing on Arise TV on Friday, carpeted the Kogi Senate, saying she doesn’t follow the Senate rules.

She said the three other female senators have been silent about the seating arrangement row because they don’t want to say anything negative about Natasha.

“Silence is golden, especially when one of us is not following the rules, and as women, we did not want to come out publicly to say anything negative about her, and we were hoping all of this will blow over, as a lot of things do,” the Labour Party Senator said.
She added, “The Senate is not a place where we are supposed to fight over trivialities like seating arrangements.”
According to Kingibe, Natasha was not the only lawmaker whose seat was moved. She disclosed that other lawmakers were affected by the seating reassignment.

“This is about the rules of the Senate. So if I can point out that other women have been moved several times on that day, I wasn’t there, but I gathered that several men were also moved,” she said.

The chairperson of the Senate Committee on Women Affairs admitted that the Senate is not gender-friendly, but she said the situation has improved.

She said, “The truth of the matter is, yes, the Senate is not gender friendly, but it has been improving much better than when we first entered the Senate, I must say. And the truth of the matter is, when we make a fuss and draw the attention of the Senate president, he corrects it. Truly, the Senate can do better than he’s doing, but there’s hardly anything that’s been done to us that’s not done to other men.”
Kingibe appealed to women, saying, “I want women to know we have to follow the rules of the institution we choose to enter, and that is mostly the point of this visit here.”

Silence is golden indeed.
Natasha vomited more than she should on Arisetv, whether true or false. I think she said more than she should for decorum and for her whole image.
Just my own view. I may be wrong. I admit.
And she should be ready for litigations from the corner of the S.P. because she has indicted the S.P. and he/she who alleges must prove.
I don't see this matter ending on the floor of the Senate but in court and however it turns out, both her image and that of the S.P will be soiled. None is leaving the mud clean as they entered.

My VIEW.

cornelboy:
Jehovah is not same as Theos

Jehovah is the proper name for my God.

Simple question.
That proper name of God that you claim "Yahweh"(Jehovah) is Hebrew.
WHAT IS JEHOVAH CALLED IN GREEK? SIMPLE

Abi the name was abolished alongside the Hebrew language?
ABI YOU DON'T KNOW NI?
CALL FOR HELP NOW.

THANKS.