₦airaland Forum

cornelboy:
So the disciples that Jesus promised that he would allow them sit on his throne if they overcame would be sitting on God's throne?

The fact that it's my father's house doesn't mean I'm the owner, i can only inherit the house when he dies, he might even will the house to someone else sef lol

So Jesus sitting on God's throne is like a reward for overcoming, a privilege.

It doesn't prove that Jesus and God are equal or same person.

So if the disciples later sit with Jesus in his throne after overcoming, they are now equal with/to Jesus?

Sir.
Read all my reply with Max.
I have explained it in detail.
That was what Jesus said, but it may not be literal.
Max claimed that the throne Jesus sat on was David throne that was wat led to it.
If you agree, it is David throne. Can David throne contain the disciples that overcome too? But read our chat...you will get the main talking point.

On we being equal with God and the likes.

Didn't the scriptures called us Joint heirs with Christ?
When you call someone heir, it make someone who will take over who someone dies.
The question is will God die since we are called heir? The obvious answer is no.
It means things cannot be interpreted out of context.
Our being joint heir or equal with god shows that we will have the heavenly qualities, we will live forever, we will have dominion and many niret. Those are qualities God has that he will share with his said when we overcome.

Read our chat and get the context.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
😂😂😂baba wan run after saying rubbish.



😂😂😂😂This man is funny oo....how does what you wrote up there agree with what you wrote below? Are you now denying your own words and shifting it to the Pharisees?

😂😂

I explained all the scriptures you brought, there is none you were able to discard. Then you resorted to tantrums. I don't engage people in tantrums sir.
I respect your views.
It is obvious to reader and future reader that I have answered your questions.
And the can see clearly that wat you wanted is REPETITION AND REPETITION. So when they read this thread half to the place where you started you tantrums, the will move to another thread.
So, don't bother... nobody will read the thread to this point at all. No even I.
Good night sir.

I BOW OUT.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you've already answered the question that you are raising above when I asked you the question below.

So according to the versions that you put up there
do you agree that the Father alone is the "Almighty
God" and "Sovereign Ruler" and the only person who has "Immortality"?

So, I answered my own question right.
I answered all your questions and also answered all my questions too.

WHICH ONE DID YOU, YES YOU, NOW ANSWERED?

Truthseeker10:
Is Philippians 2 and 1 Timothy 6:14-16 the same context?



😂😂😂😂This man is funny oo....how does what you wrote up there agree with what you wrote below? Are you now denying your own words and shifting it to the Pharisees?

😂😂

"By calling himself the son of God he has made himself equal with God.
Just like a goat can't say he is a son of a man, for a goat to call itself son of a man, it has made itself equally with man. That was the und the Jews had when Jesus called himself the son of God thereby making himself equal with god
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.

SoO, NOT ME SIR. IT IS THE SCRIPTURE, WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF SON OF GOD, YOU HAVE MAKE YOUSEF EQUAL WITH GOD BY CLAIMING HIS NATURE.'

Sir.
Go and sleep.
All your questions have been answered.

You have never answered one nor even one question of mine.
Go and sleep sir.

Truthseeker10:
Oga your reply to my question below should answer the remainder of your questions.

So according to the versions that you put up there
do you agree that the Father alone is the "Almighty
God" and "Sovereign Ruler" and the only person who has "Immortality"?

You have never answered one of my questions...you ran away and came back with loads of already answered questions.

Truthseeker10:
Is Philippians 2 and 1 Timothy 6:14-16 the same context?



😂😂😂😂This man is funny oo....how does what you wrote up there agree with what you wrote below? Are you now denying your own words and shifting it to the Pharisees?

😂😂

"By calling himself the son of God he has made himself equal with God.
Just like a goat can't say he is a son of a man, for a goat to call itself son of a man, it has made itself equally with man. That was the und the Jews had when Jesus called himself the son of God thereby making himself equal with god
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.

SoO, NOT ME SIR. IT IS THE SCRIPTURE, WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF SON OF GOD, YOU HAVE MAKE YOUSEF EQUAL WITH GOD BY CLAIMING HIS NATURE.'

Sir it is obvious you do not feel like sleeping and you are just passing time.
You have evaded all my questions and I have answered all yours.
But this last one, you will not evade. I won't answer any further questions until you answer this one.

IS ANGEL GABRIEL "MORTAL" OR "IMMORTAL"?

Truthseeker10:
😂😂😂So you told me yes and you are telling me again that Angel Gabriel has "immortality". Can't you see that you are funny?

Lol...funny you sir.

Let me ask you.
Is Angel Gabriel "Mortal"?

Truthseeker10:
When I asked you the question below, what was your reply concerning the issue of "immortality"?

So according to the versions that you put up there
do you agree that the Father alone is the "Almighty
God" and "Sovereign Ruler" and the only person who has "Immortality"?

I told you yes and I told you context.

Let me ask you. Are angels "Mortals"?

Truthseeker10:
1)In 1 Timothy 6:14-16, Did apostle Paul say that Jesus was "equal with" God in heaven?


2)So if Jesus was not Equal with God while on earth, explain your statement below.

"By calling himself the son of God he has made himself equal with God.
Just like a goat can't say he is a son of a man, for a goat to call itself son of a man, it has made itself equally with man. That was the und the Jews had when Jesus called himself the son of God thereby making himself equal with god
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.

SoO, NOT ME SIR. IT IS THE SCRIPTURE, WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF SON OF GOD, YOU HAVE MAKE YOUSEF EQUAL WITH GOD BY CLAIMING HIS NATURE.'

1. Wasn't it the same Paul that wrote Philippians 2 where he said Jesus was equal with god?

2. Where I quoted and you quoted it was the Pharisees accusing Jesus that he equate himself with God when he said he is the son of God. He didn't say it himself but they understand the gravity of the statement.
You remember when Peter made that declaration "You are the Messiah, the son of the living god"? Remember what Jesus said that they should not reveal it to any man because he has not yet been glorified.
I
It was Paul in Philippians that showed that Jesus left is privileges of divinity and took human form for salvation. So, if you wanna arrest anyone, arrest Paul first.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
It seems you are the liar due to your your reply in the screenshot below.

False accusations.
I have ALWAYS held even here and now, that THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN THE SON.

I even write it in bold now. Where is the lie? SIR.

Truthseeker10:
1)So How can you defend your statement below:
Have I ever disagreed with that FACT?
The Father is greater and superior to his son (Jesus).



2)Was Jesus equal with God while on earth according to your explanation below?

"By calling himself the son of God he has made himself equal with God.
Just like a goat can't say he is a son of a man, for a goat to call itself son of a man, it has made itself equally with man. That was the und the Jews had when Jesus called himself the son of God thereby making himself equal with god
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.

SoO, NOT ME SIR. IT IS THE SCRIPTURE, WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF SON OF GOD, YOU HAVE MAKE YOUSEF EQUAL WITH GOD BY CLAIMING HIS NATURE.'

1. I have answer you severally that the Father is greater than the son. The son himself said that and not me.
John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.

2. Jesus was not equal with God when he was alive because he was purely human as only humans can die physical dead. He voluntarily let go of his divinity and took on humanity because of the salvation of you and I. It is clearly stated here:
Philippians 2:7-8
[7]Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
    he took the humble position of a slave
    and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
   
[8]he humbled himself in obedience to God
    and died a criminal’s death on a cross.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
If angel Gabriel has immortality, explain your Amplified version Below without contradiction.

AMPLIFIED
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]To keep all His precepts unsullied and flawless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Anointed One),
[15]Which [appearing] will be shown forth in His own proper time by the blessed, only Sovereign (Ruler), the King of kings and the Lord of lords,
[16]Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

You still don't get context. When the Bible attributed God as he alone is Lord. Don't we have other Lords? Weren't angels also called lords even by Abraham and the Patriachs?
Does that mean since we call angels lords, the psalmist that said God is Lord alone has lied?
You are wiser than this now.

Thanks

Truthseeker10:
So did the Father elevate the son before coming to earth according to your explanation of "equal with"?

Is the son "Equal with" the Father after his resurrection to heaven?

The answers to the above questions should be in line with your statement below in relation to 1 Timothy 6:16:

Have I ever disagreed with that FACT?
The Father is greater and superior to his son (Jesus).

Smile
It used to surprise people that my words have always been consistent. You are looking for inconsistency but it seems I am making it hard for you to find. Right interpretation of the scriptures without bias or Denominationalism helps achieve that

BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.
1. Jesus was equal with God before his Incarnation.
John 17:5
[5]Now, Father, bring me into the glory we shared before the world began.

2. Jesus freely by his choice and the will of the Father surrendered his equality with God when he incarnated and came to earth (he was purely human).
Philippians 2:7
[7]Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
    he took the humble position of a slave
    and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,

3. Jesus became equal with god after his ascension to the right hand of God where his position has always been.
Philippians 2:9
[9]Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
    and gave him the name above all other names,

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So is your statement above not in contradiction to your Amplified version Below?

AMPLIFIED
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]To keep all His precepts unsullied and flawless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Anointed One),
[15]Which [appearing] will be shown forth in His own proper time by the blessed, only Sovereign (Ruler), the King of kings and the Lord of lords,
[16]Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

Even Amplified still help you break am down. You still no understanding.
What is immortality? Even we human will attain that immortality. So, I don't know why you don't put statements into context.
Let me ask you. DONT ANGELS HAVE IMMORTALITY? Has Angel Gabriel died before or will he die in the future?

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
[53]For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.
[54]Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
But you have argued with me that the son is "equal with" the Father and you also claim that Jesus was elevated by the father before coming to the earth.

The statement below is yours in your explanation of "equal with" and "equal to":

So did the Father elevate the son before coming to earth according to your explanation of "equal with"?

This is Your statement below:


"Read my reply above in my response. Equal with as used in Philippians 2 is different from equal to.
I am an English expert and teacher.
"Equal with" means exalted to a state of similar rank with a distinct.
"Equal to" means being of equality in all forms where one cannot succumb to the other.

So, Jesus is equal with god but not equal to god"

Yes, I have explained equal with the Father, it was stated in scriptures and not my word.
Philippians 2:6
[6]Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.

By calling himself the son of God he has made himself equal with God.
Just like a goat can't say he is a son of a man, for a goat to call itself son of a man, it has made itself equally with man. That was the und the Jews had when Jesus called himself the son of God thereby making himself equal with god
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.

SoO, NOT ME SIR. IT IS THE SCRIPTURE, WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF SON OF GOD, YOU HAVE MAKE YOUSEF EQUAL WITH GOD BY CLAIMING HIS NATURE.

Truthseeker10:
😂So does Jesus have "immortality"?

Immortality means "not subject to death."
So,Yes, Jesus currently has immortality because he can no longer die.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
If the Father alone had "immortality" according to your interpretation of 1 Timothy 6:16, explain Romans 6:9.

Chai...sir, go and sleep.
Let me post the two verses for you.
1 Timothy 6:16
[16]He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

Romans 6:9
[9]We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him.

Let me just put both in one one sentence for you.
1. 1 Timothy shows that the Father can never die (past, present and future). The Father has never and will never die.

2. Romans show that Jesus (Son of God) had died (past) and raised from the died (currently alive) and will never die (future).The son had died and resurrected and will never die again.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So according to the versions that you put up there, do you agree that the Father alone is the "Almighty God" and "Sovereign Ruler" and the only person who has "Immortality"?

Have I ever disagreed with that FACT?
The Father is greater and superior to his son (Jesus).

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?

Truthseeker10:
Below is Kjv translation of 1 Timothy 6:14-16.

That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

This is NLT
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]that you obey this command without wavering. Then no one can find fault with you from now until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again.
[15]For,At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords.
[16]He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

AMPLIFIED
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]To keep all His precepts unsullied and flawless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Anointed One),
[15]Which [appearing] will be shown forth in His own proper time by the blessed, only Sovereign (Ruler), the King of kings and the Lord of lords,
[16]Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

I have six versions of the Bible with me.
POST YOUR VERSION, DONT BE SHY, LET US SEE.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
What you failed to understand is that only Jesus perfectly understood all that has to do with his father's program and despite being with his disciples who were born, bread and brought up with him as Jews physically they still found it hard to grasp his messages not to talk of people who can't see him physically but dealing with him through the means of God's Active Force.
Surely they will also have their flaws but just as there is no group in the first century Jewish community that could stand the faith of Jesus' disciples no group on this planet today can stand the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses.
So this people have it whether you agree or not!

At least you admit flaws. That's a good way to start at least.
I won't address the other point you madecos it's not necessary.

At least we have both come to a conclusion that Jesus is sitting on God's throne. That's cool.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Explain 1 Timothy 6:16.

Smile. Sir, should I summarize the whole 1 Timothy for you to save you stress?

Okay. Back to your specific questions.
Paul was admonishing Timothy, his spiritual son and an elder, to live a godly life, uphold the faith and the doctrine he has had both from Paul, his mother and grandmother and to also stand strong against the nay Sayers until Jesus COMES AGAIN verse 14. And then Jesus verse 15 will be revealed from heaven based on the permission of the Father who in verse 16 which your question is, it is the Father (not Jesus) Paul was describing as the One who never dies (cos the Father cannot die) and he alone no eyes have seen. And this is also confirm in other scriptures
John 1:18
[18]No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

1 John 4:12
[12]No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever you think doesn't count until you are able to present a better performing group that's globally doing the work Jesus assigned to his disciples whatever the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses say regarding interpretation remains unchallenged! Matthew 7:16-18

Max.
JW are doing well and kudos to you guys.

Remain unchallenged?
Okay, maybe it was you people that challenge me yourselves by yourselves Sha, cos I know how many times you changed dates before finally settling for 1914 even at a point you people had to backdate by yourself since it seems no other date before and after worked.
I said I don't wanna talk about it. You started it. But let me just bridle myself here.
You organization have my respect.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So Jesus will come back to earth as human and go to Jerusalem? If yes, explain John 14:19.

I believe you read scriptures because that passage has nothing to do with Jesus second coming. He was on saying in verse 19 that he will die and people will see him no more but he will rise again in verse 20 and then show himself to them (the disciples) and because he will rise again overcoming death, his folloers will also live because he lives. He wasn't even talking about his second coming in the passage.

So, you didn't bring anything out from John 14:19. Or do you have another interpretation? Let's see.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
That's your own opinion but what we believe is that he has been sitting on David's throne since the year 1914

Ohhhh...okay, let's not border going down the memory line of Charles Russell an the dates.
Let me just respect that view and not prosecute it.
At least we have been able to accertain that Jesus is sitting on his father's throne with his father on his right hand of honor.

Let's leave the dates. I understand the whole thing. I don't like unending argument, let me just save both of us the stress.

Truthseeker10:
Where will the statement above take place?

In Jerusalem. Obviously, the throne of David is not in Abuja, Nigeria.

MaxInDHouse:
According to God's promise Christ is to rule over the earth from Jerusalem right on David's throne {Isaiah 2:3; 9:7} that is why his disciples were anticipating quick transition after his resurrection {Act 1:6} but just as he told the Jews his kingdom will no longer be established in the land of the Jews due to their unbelief! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

So when he promised his corulers that he is taking them to another location {John 14:1-3} he is talking about where God decided to take that seat of Government to instead of Jerusalem on planet earth!

Read my reply to janosky just above ur comment. Jesus is not currently in David throne but will be in David throne during the millennium, but currently still on the Father throne till the appointed time of the Gentiles is complete.

Thanks.

Janosky:
Christ is sitting on his Father's throne & ruling in the midst of his enemies after his ascension to heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:24-27.

The throne belongs to God Jehovah the Father of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't matter that we call it Jesus throne just as it doesn't matter that we call the same throne as "David's throne", Luke 1:32.

This still add up. Kudos sir.
Just that according to the scriptures Jesus will be sitting on David throne during the millennium when he will be King in Jerusalem Judging the twelve tribes of Israel with his disciples as he promised his disciples in
Matthew 19:27-28
[27]Then Peter said to him, “We’ve given up everything to follow you. What will we get?”
[28]Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

But for now, he is currently sitting at the right hand of the Father on his father's throne advocating and overseeing the affairs of the saints currently in this regime according to
1 John 2:1
[1]My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Are you joking or you want to learn?

God's throne is in heaven and whenever i say "God" i'm not talking about Jesus that's what you thought the other time.

Any anointed King over God's people is sitting on extension of God's throne no matter where such a person is:


Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD (JEHOVAH) as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him. 1Chronicles 29:23

So the throne Jesus is sitting presently is the one David sat that was promised to the Christ an extension of God's throne!

Max.
Sir I am lost and you have box yourself again in a way to escape because you can't pick one, you decided to pick both making the matter worse.

SCHOOL ME PLEASE.
1. Where was David throne when he ruled over Israel? Was the throne in heaven or on earth?

2. When Rehoboam became King, was he sitting on David and Solomon throne or the throne disappeared to heaven to be occupied by Jesus.

3. Let's agree with you that David throne was God's heavenly throne which makes David throne God's throne according to you.
It means Jesus is currently sitting on David's throne which is God's throne in heaven at the right hand of God. So, Jesus is sitting on David's throne in heaven right now.

Make it make sense please.
Ahhh...Max, you made something that was ordinarily so simple this complicated. Na you go explain am ooo

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So If as an Obidient, I condemn Tinubu as a politician and voted against him and told others not to vote for him, and i later work under Tinubu and get paid by him, am i not an hypocrite? Yes or no?

Would it not be wrong for me to insult those who voted for Tinubu because of the hardship in Nigeria since they should not be held responsible even though they voted for him? Yes or no?

Sir, question reply.
If your bored sir. It's late already, you are at liberty to sleep. Thanks. Though you left my question unanswered but no probz...go and sleep.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Oga so is it wrong for obidients or other Nigerians to hold responsible those who voted for Tinubu? Yes or no?

What if I am an obidient, and I voted against Tinubu in the last election and convinced others not to vote for him, would it be right for me to work for the government now after condemning Tinubu?

I have told you, it is not wrong because (1) politics is about choices (2) he who opposes today may support tomorrow and vice versa and we see that a lot in politics across the world.
But in the case where a person says ALL POLITICAL ACTIVITIES ARE WRONG but money that proceeds from occupants of POLITICAL OFFICES ARE RIGHT. That in itself is double standard and hypocrisy. Such a person should start a business or a private firm and earn his good or pure money.

SIMPLITO.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Our Governing Body members (Apostles) don't do secular works. After Jesus chose them they stopped their secular works {Matthew 19:27} but other disciples are working wherever they get employed unless military services because Jesus commanded them not to hate anyone. Mark 12:31

Psalms 110:1
Jesus' throne is at God's right hand which means he has God's backing.

Please whenever i cite a scripture make sure you read it because if you don't i will not continue wasting my time.

The funniest thing is that I know most of those scriptures off hand and other related verses talking about the same thing which helps me in two ways. Easily locating related scriptures and also given proper context and interpretation.

Back to your reply.
If Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God and God sits on his throne according to where you quoted in Psalm 110:1 and also supported by Stephen in Acts 7:56 and Jesus said that right hand was on his father's throne in Revelation 3:21.
Doesn't that mean that Jesus after his ascension was and is still sitting at the right hand of his father on his father's throne?
Is it not that simple to add up?
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So according to your logic, it is wrong for obidients or other Nigerians to hold responsible those who voted for Tinubu. True or false?

You didn't read my logic sir. If you did, your question did not show that you even read a letter of it. Read it again.
Why will they old them responsible? Which court will they take them to where they will be convicted because they voted a president and the president did not perform? Have that ever happened in any court of law in any country before where people are charge to church for voting a person who stole government money? But we have seen former president in countries jailed for stealing or corruption while in office, did they arrest those who voted for them alongside them? Nawa ooo.

You never read my question.