₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
So is your statement above not in contradiction to your Amplified version Below?

AMPLIFIED
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]To keep all His precepts unsullied and flawless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Anointed One),
[15]Which [appearing] will be shown forth in His own proper time by the blessed, only Sovereign (Ruler), the King of kings and the Lord of lords,
[16]Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

Even Amplified still help you break am down. You still no understanding.
What is immortality? Even we human will attain that immortality. So, I don't know why you don't put statements into context.
Let me ask you. DONT ANGELS HAVE IMMORTALITY? Has Angel Gabriel died before or will he die in the future?

1 Corinthians 15:53-54
[53]For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.
[54]Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
But you have argued with me that the son is "equal with" the Father and you also claim that Jesus was elevated by the father before coming to the earth.

The statement below is yours in your explanation of "equal with" and "equal to":

So did the Father elevate the son before coming to earth according to your explanation of "equal with"?

This is Your statement below:


"Read my reply above in my response. Equal with as used in Philippians 2 is different from equal to.
I am an English expert and teacher.
"Equal with" means exalted to a state of similar rank with a distinct.
"Equal to" means being of equality in all forms where one cannot succumb to the other.

So, Jesus is equal with god but not equal to god"

Yes, I have explained equal with the Father, it was stated in scriptures and not my word.
Philippians 2:6
[6]Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.

By calling himself the son of God he has made himself equal with God.
Just like a goat can't say he is a son of a man, for a goat to call itself son of a man, it has made itself equally with man. That was the und the Jews had when Jesus called himself the son of God thereby making himself equal with god
John 5:18
[18]So the Jewish leaders tried all the harder to find a way to kill him. For he not only broke the Sabbath, he called God his Father, thereby making himself equal with God.

SoO, NOT ME SIR. IT IS THE SCRIPTURE, WHEN YOU CALL YOURSELF SON OF GOD, YOU HAVE MAKE YOUSEF EQUAL WITH GOD BY CLAIMING HIS NATURE.

Truthseeker10:
😂So does Jesus have "immortality"?

Immortality means "not subject to death."
So,Yes, Jesus currently has immortality because he can no longer die.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
If the Father alone had "immortality" according to your interpretation of 1 Timothy 6:16, explain Romans 6:9.

Chai...sir, go and sleep.
Let me post the two verses for you.
1 Timothy 6:16
[16]He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

Romans 6:9
[9]We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him.

Let me just put both in one one sentence for you.
1. 1 Timothy shows that the Father can never die (past, present and future). The Father has never and will never die.

2. Romans show that Jesus (Son of God) had died (past) and raised from the died (currently alive) and will never die (future).The son had died and resurrected and will never die again.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So according to the versions that you put up there, do you agree that the Father alone is the "Almighty God" and "Sovereign Ruler" and the only person who has "Immortality"?

Have I ever disagreed with that FACT?
The Father is greater and superior to his son (Jesus).

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?

Truthseeker10:
Below is Kjv translation of 1 Timothy 6:14-16.

That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

This is NLT
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]that you obey this command without wavering. Then no one can find fault with you from now until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again.
[15]For,At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords.
[16]He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

AMPLIFIED
1 Timothy 6:14-16
[14]To keep all His precepts unsullied and flawless, irreproachable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Anointed One),
[15]Which [appearing] will be shown forth in His own proper time by the blessed, only Sovereign (Ruler), the King of kings and the Lord of lords,
[16]Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

I have six versions of the Bible with me.
POST YOUR VERSION, DONT BE SHY, LET US SEE.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
What you failed to understand is that only Jesus perfectly understood all that has to do with his father's program and despite being with his disciples who were born, bread and brought up with him as Jews physically they still found it hard to grasp his messages not to talk of people who can't see him physically but dealing with him through the means of God's Active Force.
Surely they will also have their flaws but just as there is no group in the first century Jewish community that could stand the faith of Jesus' disciples no group on this planet today can stand the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses.
So this people have it whether you agree or not!

At least you admit flaws. That's a good way to start at least.
I won't address the other point you madecos it's not necessary.

At least we have both come to a conclusion that Jesus is sitting on God's throne. That's cool.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Explain 1 Timothy 6:16.

Smile. Sir, should I summarize the whole 1 Timothy for you to save you stress?

Okay. Back to your specific questions.
Paul was admonishing Timothy, his spiritual son and an elder, to live a godly life, uphold the faith and the doctrine he has had both from Paul, his mother and grandmother and to also stand strong against the nay Sayers until Jesus COMES AGAIN verse 14. And then Jesus verse 15 will be revealed from heaven based on the permission of the Father who in verse 16 which your question is, it is the Father (not Jesus) Paul was describing as the One who never dies (cos the Father cannot die) and he alone no eyes have seen. And this is also confirm in other scriptures
John 1:18
[18]No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

1 John 4:12
[12]No one has ever seen God. But if we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is brought to full expression in us.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever you think doesn't count until you are able to present a better performing group that's globally doing the work Jesus assigned to his disciples whatever the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses say regarding interpretation remains unchallenged! Matthew 7:16-18

Max.
JW are doing well and kudos to you guys.

Remain unchallenged?
Okay, maybe it was you people that challenge me yourselves by yourselves Sha, cos I know how many times you changed dates before finally settling for 1914 even at a point you people had to backdate by yourself since it seems no other date before and after worked.
I said I don't wanna talk about it. You started it. But let me just bridle myself here.
You organization have my respect.

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So Jesus will come back to earth as human and go to Jerusalem? If yes, explain John 14:19.

I believe you read scriptures because that passage has nothing to do with Jesus second coming. He was on saying in verse 19 that he will die and people will see him no more but he will rise again in verse 20 and then show himself to them (the disciples) and because he will rise again overcoming death, his folloers will also live because he lives. He wasn't even talking about his second coming in the passage.

So, you didn't bring anything out from John 14:19. Or do you have another interpretation? Let's see.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
That's your own opinion but what we believe is that he has been sitting on David's throne since the year 1914

Ohhhh...okay, let's not border going down the memory line of Charles Russell an the dates.
Let me just respect that view and not prosecute it.
At least we have been able to accertain that Jesus is sitting on his father's throne with his father on his right hand of honor.

Let's leave the dates. I understand the whole thing. I don't like unending argument, let me just save both of us the stress.

Truthseeker10:
Where will the statement above take place?

In Jerusalem. Obviously, the throne of David is not in Abuja, Nigeria.

MaxInDHouse:
According to God's promise Christ is to rule over the earth from Jerusalem right on David's throne {Isaiah 2:3; 9:7} that is why his disciples were anticipating quick transition after his resurrection {Act 1:6} but just as he told the Jews his kingdom will no longer be established in the land of the Jews due to their unbelief! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

So when he promised his corulers that he is taking them to another location {John 14:1-3} he is talking about where God decided to take that seat of Government to instead of Jerusalem on planet earth!

Read my reply to janosky just above ur comment. Jesus is not currently in David throne but will be in David throne during the millennium, but currently still on the Father throne till the appointed time of the Gentiles is complete.

Thanks.

Janosky:
Christ is sitting on his Father's throne & ruling in the midst of his enemies after his ascension to heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:24-27.

The throne belongs to God Jehovah the Father of Jesus Christ.
It doesn't matter that we call it Jesus throne just as it doesn't matter that we call the same throne as "David's throne", Luke 1:32.

This still add up. Kudos sir.
Just that according to the scriptures Jesus will be sitting on David throne during the millennium when he will be King in Jerusalem Judging the twelve tribes of Israel with his disciples as he promised his disciples in
Matthew 19:27-28
[27]Then Peter said to him, “We’ve given up everything to follow you. What will we get?”
[28]Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

But for now, he is currently sitting at the right hand of the Father on his father's throne advocating and overseeing the affairs of the saints currently in this regime according to
1 John 2:1
[1]My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Are you joking or you want to learn?

God's throne is in heaven and whenever i say "God" i'm not talking about Jesus that's what you thought the other time.

Any anointed King over God's people is sitting on extension of God's throne no matter where such a person is:


Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD (JEHOVAH) as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him. 1Chronicles 29:23

So the throne Jesus is sitting presently is the one David sat that was promised to the Christ an extension of God's throne!

Max.
Sir I am lost and you have box yourself again in a way to escape because you can't pick one, you decided to pick both making the matter worse.

SCHOOL ME PLEASE.
1. Where was David throne when he ruled over Israel? Was the throne in heaven or on earth?

2. When Rehoboam became King, was he sitting on David and Solomon throne or the throne disappeared to heaven to be occupied by Jesus.

3. Let's agree with you that David throne was God's heavenly throne which makes David throne God's throne according to you.
It means Jesus is currently sitting on David's throne which is God's throne in heaven at the right hand of God. So, Jesus is sitting on David's throne in heaven right now.

Make it make sense please.
Ahhh...Max, you made something that was ordinarily so simple this complicated. Na you go explain am ooo

Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So If as an Obidient, I condemn Tinubu as a politician and voted against him and told others not to vote for him, and i later work under Tinubu and get paid by him, am i not an hypocrite? Yes or no?

Would it not be wrong for me to insult those who voted for Tinubu because of the hardship in Nigeria since they should not be held responsible even though they voted for him? Yes or no?

Sir, question reply.
If your bored sir. It's late already, you are at liberty to sleep. Thanks. Though you left my question unanswered but no probz...go and sleep.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
Oga so is it wrong for obidients or other Nigerians to hold responsible those who voted for Tinubu? Yes or no?

What if I am an obidient, and I voted against Tinubu in the last election and convinced others not to vote for him, would it be right for me to work for the government now after condemning Tinubu?

I have told you, it is not wrong because (1) politics is about choices (2) he who opposes today may support tomorrow and vice versa and we see that a lot in politics across the world.
But in the case where a person says ALL POLITICAL ACTIVITIES ARE WRONG but money that proceeds from occupants of POLITICAL OFFICES ARE RIGHT. That in itself is double standard and hypocrisy. Such a person should start a business or a private firm and earn his good or pure money.

SIMPLITO.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Our Governing Body members (Apostles) don't do secular works. After Jesus chose them they stopped their secular works {Matthew 19:27} but other disciples are working wherever they get employed unless military services because Jesus commanded them not to hate anyone. Mark 12:31

Psalms 110:1
Jesus' throne is at God's right hand which means he has God's backing.

Please whenever i cite a scripture make sure you read it because if you don't i will not continue wasting my time.

The funniest thing is that I know most of those scriptures off hand and other related verses talking about the same thing which helps me in two ways. Easily locating related scriptures and also given proper context and interpretation.

Back to your reply.
If Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God and God sits on his throne according to where you quoted in Psalm 110:1 and also supported by Stephen in Acts 7:56 and Jesus said that right hand was on his father's throne in Revelation 3:21.
Doesn't that mean that Jesus after his ascension was and is still sitting at the right hand of his father on his father's throne?
Is it not that simple to add up?
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
So according to your logic, it is wrong for obidients or other Nigerians to hold responsible those who voted for Tinubu. True or false?

You didn't read my logic sir. If you did, your question did not show that you even read a letter of it. Read it again.
Why will they old them responsible? Which court will they take them to where they will be convicted because they voted a president and the president did not perform? Have that ever happened in any court of law in any country before where people are charge to church for voting a person who stole government money? But we have seen former president in countries jailed for stealing or corruption while in office, did they arrest those who voted for them alongside them? Nawa ooo.

You never read my question.

MaxInDHouse:
You misquoted me!
It's Jehovah that's King not Jesus!

You escaped the box.
Iya back to question.
Is Jesus currently sitting on David's throne now as we speak or during the millennium? If you say, David's throne, you will box yourself with another question.
If no, then which throne is Jesus currently sitting if it is not David's throne and at the same time it is not God's throne, which own dey again?
Since you said there are two thrones, David's throne and God's throne.

Truthseeker10:
If I vote for a political office holder, am I responsible for what the person does in office?

Lol.
If I give birth to a child, am I responsible for what the child does when he gets old.
Was God responsible for what Saul did as a king? At least, the Israelites didn't chose Saul, God himself anointed Saul. Abi?
Was Jesus responsible for Judas atrocities and theft even though he was the one who appointed him among the twelve and also as treasurer?
If you lend a person a loan to set up a business and the person diverted it to buy guns and began to terrorize people, will you be responsible for the atrocities of an adult?

So, if I choose a person based on his promise and my own observation into office and he renege on his promises and started doing his own will against the people. All he does is on him when he appears before God in Judgement.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
NOW ANSWER MINE.

Should you condemn politics and justify being under the payroll of the politicians?

Gabrielshow24:
He won't answer your questions!!!

That's how he does!
When you ask him critical questions or reflect his own argument to him.

He avoids it entirely 🤧..
At least this time he didn't bring out the argument of church🤣🤣 or the legendary what's your church rhetorics 🤨?

That's his modus operandi, that's why we call him intellectually dishonest and very illogical...

I must commend you for your civility but as time goes you will come to see, he is a purveyor of lies, misconceptions and false equivocations!!!

Nothing more, nothing less.

I respect your thoughts sir.
But I must give it to Max. He has been very civil throughout our conversation.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
I never asked you if it was a spiritual matter or not.
So if I decide not to vote, have I done anything wrong if I work for government?

If you have nothing against voting and you decided not to vote, you have done nothing wrong if you work for the government. I have never voted in an election before but I do not have any issue with voting.

But if you condemn voting in an election, it is wrong for you to work in the government constituted by those who entered through the voting you condemned.

SIMPLITO.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
How can Jesus be King before David?

That's what I am asking you ooo. Because in your analogy you said Jesus was king over the Jews but the Jews played politics by demanding for a king and that's what made politics wrong.
So, I am now asking you. When did Jesus become the king of the Jews? Max?

MaxInDHouse:
Find a church that will understand you or start yours i don't have time to waste with people like you!

Max.
I am sorry for wasting your time sir.

BUT YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS SIR.

1. Which apostle worked for the government in the scriptures?
2. Which passage of the scriptures proves that there are two different thrones in heaven in which the Father is sitting on one and the Son is sitting on the other?

THANK.

[quote author=Truthseeker10 post=134298662]It is a matter of choice and not a spiritual matter. So, it is their choice, their choices change nothing spiritually. It is their choice. We have seen people who resigned because the person they didn't support entered governmental positions and some stayed put. None of them is wrong nor right because it is not a spiritual matter.
You made politics a spiritual matter because you attached righteous to none involvement in politics.
Shouldn't the same approach be given to working under those politicians when they get to office and expect salaries from them at the end of every month?

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you don't want the truth now i know why my brother and his wife just keep you at a distance.

Well continue visiting them there is no need arguing blindly over this if you like go and vote for politicians we don't do so!

Max
you haven't really answered my question. You always point to the apostle on everything you do in JW and why other Denomination who does it are not following the pattern the apostles laid.
So, I am asking you which apostle laid the foundation that JW following that allows them to work for government which they are not allowed to vote into positions?
Since the apostles did not involve in politics and JW incorporated that. Why is it that the apostles did not work for the then government, but JW refuses to incorporate that.
Should we call it cherry picking?

MaxInDHouse:
Of course you are truly a churchian!

If the Jews had accepted Jesus the Roman emperor will surely execute him because due to the preaching and teaching of his disciples Romans will start considering Christianity and just as Vladimir Putin banned Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia the Roman emperor will start a war against the religion that's disarming (weakening) his people against their enemies and since Jesus' disciples aren't supposed to fight he will be arrested and executed just as it happened.

So anyway a close confidant will betray him and he will be killed.

Max
Ahhh...why do you want to keep boxing yourself sir?
Should I start quoting scriptures on everything Jesus went through and how everything was prophesied from the scriptures including the roles of both the Jews and the Gentiles? Everything from his birth to his ascension was prophesied.

Max. You have find a way to escape or evade my question ooo.

WHICH SCRIPTURES SHOW THAT JESUS SITS ON ONE THRONE AND HIS FATHER SITS ON THE OTHER?
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse
You have not answered my question on working for the government who entered through politics and earning your living from them.
Which Apostle worked for the government of either the Herods or the Pilates or the Caesars.
Shouldn't we follow their footsteps by not working for government who entered office through politics?

MaxInDHouse:
This is where you failed woefully!

When the Israelites demanded for a King what do you think they did?
Well that was a unanimous vote against the King who chose them as his people right from the beginning: Jehovah God.

That's what makes them politicians!

Max.
Why do you keep boxing yourself?
If Jesus has been the king before the Israelites asked for a king and Saul was chosen, then later David. It means Jesus was king before Saul and David in Israel shey?
Then why will Jesus inherit the throne of his ancestor - David? Who was king before who? It is just like you saying my grandfather will inherit my throne. It doesn't add up sir. Ancestor means someone who was before you.
Luke 1:32
[32]He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David.

Max.
All these your analysis and analogy don't add up.
BACK TO MY QUESTION.
Which scriptures shows that Jesus was sitting on one throne and the Father was sitting on another?

tctrills:
I am just waiting to say I told you.

Smile. I will bear that in mind.
But I hope not.

gohf:
Jesus set you free from sin, is to set you free from the power of sin, it's influence and control, and from the consequences of sin which is death.

Because we are no "longer slaves to sin" doesn't mean we cannot sin, if we are set free from sin then we do not have to be conscious and watchful not to sin.

You have a point air. BUT
According to the scriptures, a believer may fall into sin even though apostle John advised us not to but if we do, when we repent the blood of Jesus cleanses us as thoutwe never did.
1 John 2:1
[1]My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

But a believer CANNOT continue a life of sin. Apostle John also told us so that if a person who CLAIMS to be a believer keep practicing sin, it shows they are of the devil irrespective of their claims.
1 John 3:7-10
[7]Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.
[8]But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil.
[9]Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
[10]So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

Thanks.