₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
You misquoted me!
It's Jehovah that's King not Jesus!

You escaped the box.
Iya back to question.
Is Jesus currently sitting on David's throne now as we speak or during the millennium? If you say, David's throne, you will box yourself with another question.
If no, then which throne is Jesus currently sitting if it is not David's throne and at the same time it is not God's throne, which own dey again?
Since you said there are two thrones, David's throne and God's throne.

Truthseeker10:
If I vote for a political office holder, am I responsible for what the person does in office?

Lol.
If I give birth to a child, am I responsible for what the child does when he gets old.
Was God responsible for what Saul did as a king? At least, the Israelites didn't chose Saul, God himself anointed Saul. Abi?
Was Jesus responsible for Judas atrocities and theft even though he was the one who appointed him among the twelve and also as treasurer?
If you lend a person a loan to set up a business and the person diverted it to buy guns and began to terrorize people, will you be responsible for the atrocities of an adult?

So, if I choose a person based on his promise and my own observation into office and he renege on his promises and started doing his own will against the people. All he does is on him when he appears before God in Judgement.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
NOW ANSWER MINE.

Should you condemn politics and justify being under the payroll of the politicians?

Gabrielshow24:
He won't answer your questions!!!

That's how he does!
When you ask him critical questions or reflect his own argument to him.

He avoids it entirely 🤧..
At least this time he didn't bring out the argument of church🤣🤣 or the legendary what's your church rhetorics 🤨?

That's his modus operandi, that's why we call him intellectually dishonest and very illogical...

I must commend you for your civility but as time goes you will come to see, he is a purveyor of lies, misconceptions and false equivocations!!!

Nothing more, nothing less.

I respect your thoughts sir.
But I must give it to Max. He has been very civil throughout our conversation.
Thanks.

Truthseeker10:
I never asked you if it was a spiritual matter or not.
So if I decide not to vote, have I done anything wrong if I work for government?

If you have nothing against voting and you decided not to vote, you have done nothing wrong if you work for the government. I have never voted in an election before but I do not have any issue with voting.

But if you condemn voting in an election, it is wrong for you to work in the government constituted by those who entered through the voting you condemned.

SIMPLITO.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
How can Jesus be King before David?

That's what I am asking you ooo. Because in your analogy you said Jesus was king over the Jews but the Jews played politics by demanding for a king and that's what made politics wrong.
So, I am now asking you. When did Jesus become the king of the Jews? Max?

MaxInDHouse:
Find a church that will understand you or start yours i don't have time to waste with people like you!

Max.
I am sorry for wasting your time sir.

BUT YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS SIR.

1. Which apostle worked for the government in the scriptures?
2. Which passage of the scriptures proves that there are two different thrones in heaven in which the Father is sitting on one and the Son is sitting on the other?

THANK.

[quote author=Truthseeker10 post=134298662]It is a matter of choice and not a spiritual matter. So, it is their choice, their choices change nothing spiritually. It is their choice. We have seen people who resigned because the person they didn't support entered governmental positions and some stayed put. None of them is wrong nor right because it is not a spiritual matter.
You made politics a spiritual matter because you attached righteous to none involvement in politics.
Shouldn't the same approach be given to working under those politicians when they get to office and expect salaries from them at the end of every month?

MaxInDHouse:
Obviously you don't want the truth now i know why my brother and his wife just keep you at a distance.

Well continue visiting them there is no need arguing blindly over this if you like go and vote for politicians we don't do so!

Max
you haven't really answered my question. You always point to the apostle on everything you do in JW and why other Denomination who does it are not following the pattern the apostles laid.
So, I am asking you which apostle laid the foundation that JW following that allows them to work for government which they are not allowed to vote into positions?
Since the apostles did not involve in politics and JW incorporated that. Why is it that the apostles did not work for the then government, but JW refuses to incorporate that.
Should we call it cherry picking?

MaxInDHouse:
Of course you are truly a churchian!

If the Jews had accepted Jesus the Roman emperor will surely execute him because due to the preaching and teaching of his disciples Romans will start considering Christianity and just as Vladimir Putin banned Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia the Roman emperor will start a war against the religion that's disarming (weakening) his people against their enemies and since Jesus' disciples aren't supposed to fight he will be arrested and executed just as it happened.

So anyway a close confidant will betray him and he will be killed.

Max
Ahhh...why do you want to keep boxing yourself sir?
Should I start quoting scriptures on everything Jesus went through and how everything was prophesied from the scriptures including the roles of both the Jews and the Gentiles? Everything from his birth to his ascension was prophesied.

Max. You have find a way to escape or evade my question ooo.

WHICH SCRIPTURES SHOW THAT JESUS SITS ON ONE THRONE AND HIS FATHER SITS ON THE OTHER?
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse
You have not answered my question on working for the government who entered through politics and earning your living from them.
Which Apostle worked for the government of either the Herods or the Pilates or the Caesars.
Shouldn't we follow their footsteps by not working for government who entered office through politics?

MaxInDHouse:
This is where you failed woefully!

When the Israelites demanded for a King what do you think they did?
Well that was a unanimous vote against the King who chose them as his people right from the beginning: Jehovah God.

That's what makes them politicians!

Max.
Why do you keep boxing yourself?
If Jesus has been the king before the Israelites asked for a king and Saul was chosen, then later David. It means Jesus was king before Saul and David in Israel shey?
Then why will Jesus inherit the throne of his ancestor - David? Who was king before who? It is just like you saying my grandfather will inherit my throne. It doesn't add up sir. Ancestor means someone who was before you.
Luke 1:32
[32]He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David.

Max.
All these your analysis and analogy don't add up.
BACK TO MY QUESTION.
Which scriptures shows that Jesus was sitting on one throne and the Father was sitting on another?

tctrills:
I am just waiting to say I told you.

Smile. I will bear that in mind.
But I hope not.

gohf:
Jesus set you free from sin, is to set you free from the power of sin, it's influence and control, and from the consequences of sin which is death.

Because we are no "longer slaves to sin" doesn't mean we cannot sin, if we are set free from sin then we do not have to be conscious and watchful not to sin.

You have a point air. BUT
According to the scriptures, a believer may fall into sin even though apostle John advised us not to but if we do, when we repent the blood of Jesus cleanses us as thoutwe never did.
1 John 2:1
[1]My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

But a believer CANNOT continue a life of sin. Apostle John also told us so that if a person who CLAIMS to be a believer keep practicing sin, it shows they are of the devil irrespective of their claims.
1 John 3:7-10
[7]Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.
[8]But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil.
[9]Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.
[10]So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

Thanks.

tctrills:
Boss I was like you when I started discussing with this boy a few years ago. I actually believed he was honest. I even defended him and his organization.
I bet he will never answer your question. He will quote verses that have zero relevance to the topic and at the end, he will advertise his church to you.
I understand that you have an open mind but when it goes as I have predicted, remember to mention me.

I will keep that in mind sir.
I will do my best to remain civil and when it's become uncivil I will bow out. It's not a discussion of win and lose. It is a discussion of this is my view and this is yours.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
You are really funny!

You dodged the question i asked you just to go back and forth thinking you are smart shey?

Well before the Jews ruined everything for themselves Jesus is expected to rule from where exactly?

Max
Lol...you keep boxing yourself.
Before the Jews ruined everything?
Was Jesus supposed to be crowned king in his first coming?
Wasn't his first coming for his death and penalty for sin? And his second coming to be crowned King in Jerusalem on David's throne?
So, what did the Jews ruined? Were they supposed to crown him king and not put him on the tree?
Because to me what happened at his first coming, his rejection and death was all part of the plan. DONT YOU AGREE? TALK OOO.

BACK TO MY QUESTION.
Two thrones, one for the Son and the other for the Father.
Scriptural references please. I am waiting.

MAX
JUST ACCEPT THAT THE FATHER HAS EXALTED THE SON TO SIT WITH HIM ON HIS THRONE AND LETS MOVE ON. SIR.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Employment is not supporting any man's government it's like you working under a boss who can fire you if you're not competent enough for the task {Proverbs 23:29} unlike you being a politician who joined the struggle to help your choice secure the seat in government, whether competent or not you must be given a position in that government.

Do you get it now?

Max.
Lol. Let me agree without conceding even though you analogy is flawed because not everyone who voted is a politician, but let's leave that.
Since you people don't vote nor join politics BECAUSE THE APOSTLES DIDN'T DO THAT.
Which Apostle worked for the government and collect pay from them that we can attribute working with government to?
Maybe I didn't get the apostle's name, can you remind me please with the verses. I will appreciate.

Since the apostles are our model, aren't they?
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
If you don't study the Bible from Genesis you can never ever understand what is written in the book of Revelations!

The throne God promised the Christ is David's throne {Isaiah 9:6-7; Luke 1:32} or God's throne? Chronicles 29:23

Humble yourself and study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses, let us teach you what is written in our book: Bible!

Max.
You are only boycotting the answer. All the passage you quoted are up there in the brain but you didn't right divide them.
If I ask you another question from the explanation you quoted now, you will make mistakes again the believe of the JW.
Let me tease you small before I go back to my main question you left unanswered.
Teasing questions:
Has Jesus taken the throne of David already or Jesus will take the throne of David in his second coming during the millennium reign?
Let me see maybe you will contravene the JW doctrine because you seem to have box yourself based on the reply you gave above.

BACK TO MY QUESTION.
Which scriptures prove that there are two throne IN HEAVEN (not on earth, David's throne) where the Father is sitting on one and the Son is sitting on the other?

Thanks.

gohf:
care to explain what it means for Jesus to deliver you from sin?

The word "deliver" means "set free." The knowledge of Christ and his will sets one free from sin.
John 8:31
[31]Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings.

When one through the knowledge of Christ turns away from his old ways to the newness of life. He is free indeed from his old sin and he is now a new being in Christ.
Ephesians 5:1-3,6-8
[1]Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do, because you are his dear children.
[2]Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He loved us and offered himself as a sacrifice for us, a pleasing aroma to God.
[3]Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people.
[6]Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.
[7]Don’t participate in the things these people do.
[8]For once you were full of darkness, but now you have light from the Lord. So live as people of light!

So, the knowledge and acceptance of Christ nature and will in our lives sets us from sin.

THANKS.

cornelboy:
No be you quote the Throne verse lol

Rev 3:12 NIV
To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Mr teacher

Smile, sir, if Jesus claims he is sitting with his father on his throne after he overcame. If you were asked where Jesus is sitting? Is the answer not "his father's throne? Which is also his throne?
For instance, if I live in my father's house with my father and I said come to my house for a meeting. Won't those I am addressing come to my father's house? Yes of course they will because my father's house is my house cos I live there.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
So ask (not tease) them because your salvation depends on knowing the truth not teasing up and down thinking everything is alright!

You have not answered my question on politics and government employment. Or should I take ur silence as "you don't wanna talk about it?"
I Will respect your wish.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
This is why we often plead with you people to STUDY not just read the Bible with us. Note that your friendship with us is neighbourly you are not on the same page with us so i will go straight to the points then you can ask them to expatiate more:

*God's Kingdom was established with the first human couple in Eden.
*God's Kingdom left after the rebellion in Eden.
*It was restored after God established a nation called Israel.
*They are to become kings and priests for other nations to benefit from them.
*They demanded for a King and God told them that human kings will maltreat them because He is their rightful King.
*They were supposed to wait for God's anointed King and Priest who will teach them how to help other nations.
*But they rejected that arrangement and continued practicing idolatry.
*God punished them several times until the arrival of the anointed King and Priest.
*They rejected the anointed King and all what God sent him to teach them.
*The few Jews who believe in the anointed King felt worried because of horrible things he said about Jerusalem.
*So Jerusalem the supposed center of God's Kingdom on earth was rejected by the anointed King.
*He consoled his faithful friends that he will go and establish his kingdom in the heavens.
*He will come back and take his corulers there with him.

God's heavenly throne has been there from the onset and as God's first human son Adam supposed to be our father here on earth who will be dispensing truth about his heavenly father to all his descendants but after he became a rebel he lost that privilege that's why Jesus have to step in as replacement for Adam. So the purpose of Christ's 1,000 years reign is to help obedient mankind gain perfection after which he must go back to his position as God's heavenly son while we will be having a direct dealing with our heavenly Father and God but we can never ever forget what Jesus did to help us regain the glory we as humans have in the beginning before Adam's rebellion.
So the throne designated for Jesus was not the one God has always sat on from the beginning rather another throne was set up in heaven to replace earthly throne in Jerusalem that was condemned due to the attitude of Jews! Matthew 23:37-38


If you have any question let me know!

Max
Good analogy sir I must say you did a great job and I agree with the breakdown and summary of the creation to the end of human reign on earth. You were correct sir. BUT
You didn't answer my question and the Matthew 23:37-38 you quoted is unrelated to the question sir.
What scriptural proof shows that the Father and the son have two different thrones?
Revelation 3:21 shows they both sit on the same throne with Stephen's vision showing that Jesus sits on the right hand of the Father on that throne, and Revelation 5 shows that there is only one throne surrounded by twenty four other thrones which are for the elders. All points to just One big throne.

MAX, WHAT SCRIPTURES SHOW THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THRONES? ONE FOR THE FATHER AND THE OTHER FOR THE SON.
You have never quoted any passage relating to thrones. I have given you THREE SCRIPTURES SIR

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
So ask (not tease) them because your salvation depends on knowing the truth not teasing up and down thinking everything is alright!

Max.
I am asking you now, because they really could not answer me and I decided not to press for based on mutual respect.
If you answer me cool, but if you choose not to, I won't press further, out of respect too.
SO, WILL YOU?
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing with you is you always underestimate the oneness in thought among Jehovah's Witnesses.
Don't stay here please go to anywhere on this planet and ask any JW.

Jehovah and Jesus have separate thrones!

Max.
I want to agree with you, sincerely I really want to, but Revelation 3:21 is saying otherwise but maybe you can just show me a place in the scriptures I am not seeing that prove your point and I will just agree. I am that simple. I await.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Na wah for you o!

How long have you known these people?

Why can't you iron out this matter with them since they are with you there and you are their friend?

I'm sure you never engage them on this matter that's why you are imagining things instead of asking them.
They will never ever vote for any leader because it's crime against humanity and God not because Apostles didn't vote o!

Max.
I have engaged them, even planning to do Easter with them at the kingdom hall. We just talked lightly about. I tease them sometimes and we just make fun about somethings. I respect them a lot and they do same. Just like I am teasing you now and your trying to deflect.

MaxInDHouse:
This thread makes it easy but trust these misinformed religionists they will still not get it.

To them Jehovah vacate His throne and Jesus sat on it!

Max.
Do your agree with Cornelius that Jesus and his father have two different throne. I am optimistic that you don't. You are wiser than that. I know because the scriptures is in your head and Revelation 3:21 rings in the memory too that the Father and the son sits on the same throne. Smile.
Revelation 3:21
[21]Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.

Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
So ask them nah after all they are your friends.

One thing you failed to understand about JWs is that you are not their brother in faith but you are their neighbour so we are peaceful with everyone around us no matter your religion! Romans 12:18

For our neighbours Jesus commanded us to LOVE them as we do ourselves {Mark 12:31} for our fellow believers he commanded us to LOVE the same way he love us. John 13:34-35

You can't know the difference so i will expatiate:

LOVE like ourselves means we should do what we expected others to do for us to a neighbour but LOVE just as Jesus loves means preparedness to die for our fellow believers if the need arises.

So we love all our neighbours equally it's for our fellow believers that we have what is called LOYAL LOVE!

Max.
You know our conversation is with mutual respect and I appreciate that. But you have shied away from my direct question.
If they are not permitted by scriptures to vote for politicians to be in government because non of the apostles whom you follow after didn't involve themselves in politics, thats good, but should they also be making their living off the government that comprises of this politicians because we don't also see the apostles work for the then government to make their living? They excluded themselves totally and did their private work.
Shouldn't they also exclude themselves from being paid by the government they didn't vote in and do their private practice or business to make their living?
Since we are following the lifestyle of the apostles. I do not think we should cherry pick. Should we?

SMILES.

MaxInDHouse:
Do they vote?

No, they don't sir.

MaxInDHouse:
Ask them if they don't vote first!

I am even at their place now. What a wonderful people. They don't vote and the husband is also an elder, a very good one at that. I respect them and they do same to me.
Having answered your question. What say you sir?

I am a Christian, but do I believe my religion is superior? No, I don't.
I always tell people, it doesn't matter where you belong, it only matter what you do where you find yourself. Across all religions, I say
Do to others what you want done to you.
Would you want anyone to kill you? Don't kill anyone.
Would you want people you do business with to cheat you? Don't cheat anyone.
Would you want your master or employer to delay your salary or wages? Don't do that to your employees.
Would you like anyone to judge you without giving you fair airing? Don't judge anyone without hearing their own side of the story.

DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WANT DONE TO YOU.
All men shall be Judged by their WORKS.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
Go and ask your JW friends since you're saying they don't see anything evil in the things you do i'm sure they will explain more to you while sitting face to face with them.

One thing i can tell you is that it's a crime against God and humanity to back any human ruler after John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth has declared saying:

"The Kingdom of heaven is at hand" Matthew 3:2; 4:17

Smile. I have had such discussions with them and we have reasoned brother.
I do not think based on your point sir, that we should work for that same government and collect salary from them. Because one of these my friends is a seasoned doctor in the Federal Medical Center here in my state and the Federal government pays him monthly. His wife whom I am also very close to is a seasoned electrical engineer in this same medical center under the pay of the federal government.

WHAT SAY YOU SIR.
WE CANT VOTE THEM BUT WE CAN WORK FOR THEM AND COLLECT OUR EARNINGS FROM THEM?
Which of the disciples worked for the government or herods or pilates or Caesars or make their living by working in their government or regime.

Brother, look at things from different lenses and your knowledge of the scriptures will benefit more lives because I know your intentions are pure.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
You missed the mark!

That person is facing a community where anyone who profess to believe in Jesus will be castigated so he is already one of Jesus' group but the Apostles thought since he is not with them bodily he can't be a disciple.
That totally differs from what is happening today, different religions claiming Christians yet participating in politics and wars are no part of disciples of the Prince of Peace!

Max. When the righteous rule, the people rejoice but when the wicked rules the people groan.
Who are the righteous?
Why do you think believers should back out of politics?

MaxInDHouse:
Complications results from choice when all of us need to figure out the group God is using to dispense spiritual food.

We Jehovah's Witnesses believe our God is using only the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses so whoever disagree with that can't possibly be a worshiper of our God! Matthew 24:45

What if the person does not disagree but at the same time he is not just a member of your group. Is the person also lost because he is not in your group? He is not JW?
Please, don't tell me yes, please.