₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Was Peter TAUGHT anything new that all other Christians don't know?
Ọmọ Jesus commanded that they will go to all the nations and make disciples {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} so that is not a new teaching others don't know but when it's time to learn new thing that may cause a division the little group leading the entire Christian organization global must come together for the holy spirit to lead them into scriptural truths. Act 15:28-29

Holy Spirit will never ever teach contradicting things!

The holy spirit teaches new things sir.
Jesus didn't teach everything to his disciples when he was with them. He knew the holy spirit will complete that.
John 16:12-13
[12]“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now.
[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

Yes, Jesus told them to go to all the nations, but they didn't have the full understanding, they thought it was to minister to all the Jews in all the four corners of the earth. They ministered only to Jews just like the Jews created synagogues in other Gentile nations for the Jews in those areas. But thanks be to God for the Cornelius story and the incorporation of apostle Paul. Both experience open the window of the Gospel to the Gentiles.
Contradictory message? Since inception, as the church continues to grow, the church had always had their views like in the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Paul and James also had their rough edges and friction in the explanation of Genesis 15 on Abraham's faith being recorded as righteousness unto him when you read Romans 4 and James 2:14 downwards.
As a body, we will always have our issues, but love, respect and humility will help us all attain the perfection God wants. I love JW, Catholics, Pentecostal and what have you. At the end of the day, God through Christ will Judge EACH MAN according to HIS work. Not his creed or fellowship or knowledge but his work towards God and his fellow men.
Thanks

Gabrielshow24:
I applaud you for your sincerity!!!

You're different from him🥲.
Even the verses they allude to condemns them!!!

I remember when I asked your friend, Max, how he would reconcile the phrase "one of the chief princes" with other characteristics of Jesus, you should have seen the way he reinvented set theory🤣🤣🤣.

Coining the term "First set" 🙃.
It's nice having a logical discourse with you.

It's shows you are indeed harmless as a dove and wise as a serpent🙃.

Glory to God sir and thanks to your civility and sincerity.
My brother, I know that all of us are right and wrong in different ways. And just like Paul said "we know in part and in that part we speak." Wat is Key is that we all accept the death and resurrection of Jesus, the supremacy of the Father and the importance of living a good, blameless and upright life. If we abide by these, no matter our differences in doctrine and views, we will reign with Christ in the hereafter.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
What you failed to understand is that the Holy Spirit only teaches where Jesus is the invisible chairman and Jesus only attends such meeting where two or three are GATHERED TOGETHER {Matthew 18:20} not just one person imagining things alone!

Maxim. Your point is not wrong but also no entirely true. Peter's confession on the Cornelius conversion shows that the holy spirit minister to him alone about salvation to the Gentiles even when other thought differently. Acts 11. But that personal revelation changed the dynamics. It is true that we learn more in fellowship, but it is not true that the individual cannot be taught by the spirit individually. But I get your point sir on fellowship.

Gabrielshow24:
I applaud you for your sincerity!!!

You're different from him🥲.
Even the verses they allude to condemns them!!!

I remember when I asked your friend, Max, how he would reconcile the phrase "one of the chief princes" with other characteristics of Jesus, you should have seen the way he reinvented set theory🤣🤣🤣.

Coining the term "First set" 🙃.
It's nice having a logical discourse with you.

It's shows you are indeed harmless as a dove and wise as a serpent🙃.

Glory to God sir and thanks to your civility and sincerity.
My brother, I know that all of us are right and wrong in different ways. And just like Paul said "we know in part and in that part we speak." Wat is Key is that we all accept the death and resurrection of Jesus, the supremacy of the Father and the importance of living a good, blameless and upright life. If we abide by these, no matter our differences in doctrine and views, we will reign with Christ in the hereafter.
Thanks.

Janosky:
Your comments noted Sir.

The intriguing fact is all the different explanations of the Trinity are conflicting and contradictory.
This leads to the question:

Why is the same ghost revealing conflicting info to Trinitarians?

I do not know why it should be conflicting sir. If we all stand on the scriptures, we should just stay in what it says. If the scriptures clearly show that the Father is greater than his Son Jesus, I don't see any reason why anyone should speak otherwise. And if the scriptures shows that the Father, his son and his spirit each played their roles in the salvation of mankind, I don't see a reason why another will go contrary to that father that the three are united (one) in purpose.

Gabrielshow24:
Of course, I do.
Now do you allude to the JW 'fact' that Jesus is Michael 🤨?

No. That's not evident in the scriptures. If Jesus is Michael as they claimed, the John of Patmos in his revelation would have clearly stated that, and also Jude in Jude 1:9, but he distinctly mention Michael as an angel.
They may have their reasons based on their interpretation of Daniel 12:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12:7.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
OK, so it's the Holy Spirit that's teaching you shey?
Well i will be here when your friends who are taught by the same spirit disagree to WORK together as one inspite of your so called FAITH! John 2:18

As for Jehovah's Witnesses please don't hate them for what i'm saying o but be rest assured that none of them see you as his or her fellow believer in Christ Jesus because we must WORK together if truly we are One in Christ to the glory of our heavenly Father! John 17:20-23

So if that's not possible then you aren't worshiping our God.

You can ask any of them to expatiate on what i just told you.

Peace!

Smile. My JW friends and benefactors see me more like family and trust me with their secrets and children.
The holy Spirit is my teacher and a trustworthy one at that. Imagine his role in teaching the first Apostles even when there was no new testament scriptures or antecedents. The holy was all they needed to guide them into all truth.
John 16:13
[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

Thank you.

Gabrielshow24:
Is it a vague question?
That fatherhood is part of the characteristics of God? 🤔

Or is it because of the false projections which you have formed, based on the chimes of Max, that's why you assume I believe Jesus is the same as the Father?

What you discuss and what will be discussed is always about identity !!!

Nothing more.
No one disputes that the two identities are different!!!

I just wanted to show you that Jesus is both God and Lord.

And these two: God and Lord are nothing more but concepts construed and anything can fit in; if it matches the boundaries of such conceptual definitions!!!

Sir, i didn't even pay attention to your conversation with Max. If I had, maybe I would have known ur opinion. Your view is beautiful and true.
1. Jesus is Lord and God. The statement of Thomas proves that the disciples believed that Jesus is Lord and God.
John 20:28-29
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

2. The son, Jesus, is subject to the Father in all things and even in the Future, the Father will be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28 also proves that.
1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

If we both agree on these two grounds. Then I don't think there is a problem. Do you?

MaxInDHouse:
Exactly the same thing all of you claims rendering you unproductive!

Jesus formed a group (disciples) that he sent out in pairs {Luke 10:1} to preach and teach what he taught them {Matthew 10:11-13} so that the system will continues until they cover the planet with the teaching of Jesus {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} that is what will make them One with Jesus and his father {John 17:20-23} but contradicting teachings are the works of Satan the rebel so that you people will never come to an agreement on how to do the work Jesus assigned to his faithful disciples instead you will continue arguing against one another each claiming he is been taught by the Holy Spirit!

You can't make me speak against the JW. I have them as friends and benefactors. I respect them a lot. I know your organization and other denomination history and doctrine like the back of my hands. Every denomination has its flaw. No one should prove holier than thou mentality. The perfect teacher is the spirit and he teaches people with time as they grow in him. Even at a point, the disciples you refer who were all Jews thought the salvation message was only for the Jews and they preached only to Jews living within and outside Jerusalem unlike the Cornelius story in Act 10. But with time they grew in the spirit and into their mission.
That is why I always tell people that to grow, you must not be faithful to your organization or your denomination but the word and the spirit. Maxim, you have a lot in stock, but you need to be broad minded and circumspect.
Thanks.

Gabrielshow24:
I never said anything, it's you trying to infer my standpoint 😁.
Part of the characteristic of God is what? 🙃
Or better put is Fatherhood part of the characteristic of God?

Sir, I think I need to know your standpoint before we move forward. What exactly is ur standpoint on this issue so at least I can know exactly what you want from me and not just answering your questions vaguely.

Gabrielshow24:
What's the definition of "Father"?
I will like to know your definition 🙃

Father is the progenitor of a child. The Father in this case is the progenitor or bearer of his son Jesus.
Wait. Are you saying Jesus is the Father, cos Jesus never said he is the Father, not once, not ever? I guess your not trying to imply that. Because I would have asked you to explain 1 Corinthians 15:28 and it will be impossible for you to explain. Because that verse alone out of other related verses show a VERY CLEAR distinction between Jesus (the son) and his Father.
Note: Jesus was (begotten) of the Father, but the Father was (unbegotten). Jesus has his authority and sufficiency from the Father, the Father has his authority and sufficiency from none.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing about you is expecting a son of disobedience to agree with you on the same line of thought regarding the identity of Jesus.
No matter what you say as long as you refuse to accept what Jehovah's Witnesses teach you can never ever find a single church where their teaching will suit you to join them and WORK together with them as disciples who will preach and teach to make disciples!

Am sorry, but I will like to be polite to him. I have also held his views before when I was loyal to Denominationalism. But when I grew in the word I learnt from the spirit himself. I have always proposed the best way the Trinity message can be taught in a more scriptural and uncomplicated way. Jesus is only god in his divinity, he is not the Father and the Father is superior to him. Jesus himself made that clear severally. I don't know why people just want to stick to something that is not scriptural.

Gabrielshow24:
why then did you say Jesus is not God!

Also What is the definition of Father? 🤨

Maybe your misquoting me. I have maintained that Jesus is god all through my write-ups. So that's settle.
Secondly, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus himself and the apostles made that clear. The Father is greater than Jesus and he has put everything under his son Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Or are you claiming that Jesus is the son and also the Father? I don't get it. The word of Jesus after his resurrection made it clear in John 20:17.
John 20:17
[17]“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

There is no where in the scriptures where Jesus or any of his apostle taught us that Jesus is the Father, but they taught us that the Father sent his son to be in charge of all his creation through salvation.
Do u have any contrary view to this?

Gabrielshow24:
Good from your definition is Jesus God?

Yes sir. He is divine. He is worthy of worship. John 5:22-23
[22]In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge,
[23]so that everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him.
He met both criteria. That was why I said we must distinct between the title 'god' and the person of the Father. Is Jesus god? Yes. Is Jesus the Father? No. Who is greater, Jesus or the Father? The Father.
Note the statement of Thomas:
John 20:27-29
[27]Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”
I think that clarifies it. The title god is not the Father name or restricted to him alone. But his supremacy and his nature or being is his alone, no one can compare, not even Jesus.

Gabrielshow24:
Let me ask you a question.
What makes God God?
Or what's the simple definition of being God?

Good question sir. Leaving the etymology of the root word in both Hebrew and Greek which meant deity or divinity. Literarily, the word God meaning 'something or someone worthy of worship." That is the meaning of god. But the etymology of the word in both Hebrew and other Canaanites languages, the word god is used for 'divinity' or deity," even angels or heavenly beings.
Thanks.

Janosky:
. 1. No, not the same being.
2. No, because nobody is equal with the Father.
Father meaning 'Senior'.
Ephesians 4:6, God the Father is the SENIOR of all beings.
3. No, Trinity NOT scriptural.
Many Trinitarians won't ever agree with your claim or your espoused belief about the doctrine.



True, indeed.

Other Trinitarians won't accept your views about the Trinity doctrine.
Your explanation contradicts the Nicene Creed, the standard format of the doctrine.

Yes.

You have said the truth sir. Any trinitarian that claim that Jesus and the Father are equal in existence, authority and being is not following the exact teachings of Jesus himself who clearly stated that the Father is greater than him and that he derived his power from the Father who is his God.
I am not loyal to denomination and I don't need anyone to agree. The Trinity doctrine in its originality relates only to Salvation and not authority. The Father planned the salvation of mankind, Jesus died for that salvation, and after his ascension, he sent the spirit to guide the saved ones into all truth. The three are one (united in purpose). That should be the message of Trinity. Any step beyond that to say the oneness means one is not greater than the other is nothing but myopic. The Father is the One True God, Jesus is the Son of God whom God has raised to his right hand in the God class and the spirit is of God whom he has sent to guide and preserve the called. That is my comprehensive submission on the Trinity topic over the years.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
WRONG!

Do you agree that your own dad is your God?
If not then Jesus is not my God the only true God used Jesus to create all other things {Colossians 1:15-16} just as God used your dad to make you!

This is why Jesus said:

“Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17

So God made Jesus King (Lord) over all of us but when talking about our God we all have just One who is the father and God of both Jesus and me! John 17:3

Sir, how do you serve the Father and do away with Jesus in worship? I don't understand. How do you worship the father if not through his son?

MaxInDHouse:
All angels are gods/divine just as humans are gods too but when talking about my own God it is not Jesus just as no human is my God!

Okay sir. I respect you. Do you believe that Jesus is human just like me and you or you believe that he has been with God from the beginning and he is the divine word of God who became flesh? I have just one god, the Father of our Lord Jesus and he has handed over the kingdom of the earth to his son Jesus just like the op was comparing in the case of Pharaoh handing over the entire Egypt to Joseph. I worship the one true god, the Father of all creation through our Lord and Savior Jesus. The Father is superior/greater than the son and the son is supreme over all other creation.

gohf:
distorted because it is different from the lie you have been fed with?

Smile. I will continue to show my respect sir. What lie sir? The the Father is the One True God? That Jesus is divine and has been raised by God to the God class where all kneels in heaven and on earth should bow and worship before him? What area is the lie sir, is it me pointing it out that the Father, his son and his spirit are one (united in purpose and will) but distinct in authority, nature and role? That the Father is above and superior to the son and the son to the spirit? Tell me my lies sir. That Jesus is divine or a divinity or a deity and his life did not begin just when he was born like you and I? Pls point the lies out in all these my submissions.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus is the God's only begotten Son the only being directly created by God so if all other intelligent beings (human/angel) are created in God's image {Genesis 1:26} Jesus is the first grade of them all but he surrendered himself to live with humans like our equal claiming son of man {Matthew 20:28} he did all of that to help mankind regain their lost glory as God's image {Romans 3:23} and surrendered his human life as a ransom sacrifice so that obedient mankind can have everlasting life has God purposed in the beginning all these he did to the glory of his God and father! John 20:17

You are correct sir. I do not disagree with you. And that is a good explanation of that verse. Like I explained earlier the word 'elohim' means god/divinity/deity. Jesus is divine/deity/god. This does not imply that he is equal to god who is the Father of all. He himself said that 'I go to my Father and your father, to my God and your God". Jesus is above all and only the Father is above him.
But let me note something, in the original Greek 'form' is not there as you used it. In the original it puts it as "being 'theos'', which is 'being god or deity or divine'. So, please, if you are not safe with calling Jesus god, don't alter the verse, since 'theos'' also means deity or divine', you can replace it with 'being divine.'
You can rephrase the passage like this to be safe sir.
Philippians 2:6-7
[6]Though he was God/Divine,
    he did not think of equality with God/Divinity
    as something to cling to.
[7]Instead, he gave up his divine/god privileges;
    he took the humble position of a slave
    and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
  
It means Jesus for the sake of salvation left his divinity and did not hold tightly to his divinity but took on the form of man which is an humble act.
Jesus is god who is subject to the Father who is above all and he is the one true god.
 Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
Being with God from the beginning does not and will never make Jesus equal to God!

Anyone could have gotten that privilege as the firstborn of all creations! Colossians 1:15-16
Your own senior brother who is the first born of your parents may have some privileges more than you do because he has being with your parents before you that does not make him equal to either your dad or mum!

Maxim. I was careful with my choice of words like Paul in Corinthians 15. Jesus is not EQUAL TO GOD. Equal to means you can replace if stand in. But he is EQUAL WITH GOD. Equal with God means God has exalted him and given him a name that is above all names and all nations are to worship and serve him and only The Father who is the One True God is above him. I don't think you disagree with that sir.
Thanks.

cornelboy:
"Jesus is God" is an ambiguous phrase. I would rather say Jesus is a God. While the Father Jehovah is the GOD.

According to 1 Corinthians 8:5,6 and Deuteronomy 6:4, God is just one person, the Father. Nothing else.

If you are asked who's the true God, what would be your answer?

I respect and understand your point sir. Whether you put 'a' of not, we both agree that Jesus is divine which the words 'elohim' and 'theos' (god) stand for. Also, we both agree that the Father is the Only One True God and He is greater than Jesus who is his son and Messiah.
If we all can agree on this, I believe the argument of the deity or divinity of Jesus is settle and the argument of the Father being his superior and his God as Jesus himself confess is simple. Let's put it this way so we can all agree.
JESUS IS GREATER AND GOD TO ALL OTHER CREATURE AND THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN ALL CREATION INCLUDING JESUS AND THE SUPREME GOD OVER ALL WHOM JESUS HIMSELF IS SUBJECT TO IN ALL THINGS.
Thanks.

gohf:
You may have made a mistake in this post, as you wanted to write like you previously did that Jesus is equal to God but not equal to the Father, but both statements are incorrect and are not God's word. Jesus is neither equal with God not with God as there is only one God who is our Father, YHVH.

The OP asked a rhetorical question of which he answered a capital NO. Between you and I who do you think derail the original purpose of the thread? With your own deviating answers?!

You are insisting on what you are saying without neither understanding the post nor scripture. Have you not also deviated from scripture as well?

Good. Now I understand ur view cos I have been lost. Didn't know ur standpoint until now.
You said Jesus was not equal with God. Let start with that. I hope before you give an answer you must have considered different passages of scriptures. Though you gave a distorted explanation of John 1, but let's see your interpretation on being equal with God using Philippians 2:5-11. Pls explain the passage to us.
Thanks

gohf:
You either believe God who revealed that He is the only true God or believe Jesus the son of God who revealed that God our Father is the only true God.

Now about John 1:1
The word from God is a revelation of God.

If the word logos is speech and spoken. So in the beginning was the utterance, and that utterance was according to God, the accusative noun, referring to the one who brought about the word. In the Greek text the nominative noun changes from the word to God. John writee theos en ho logos.

A nominative noun is the subject of conversation.

If the subject we are talking about is God, then John is saying theos en ho logos. Is to answer what was revealed from the beginning. If one is talking about a word, you would have to ask, what is he word about, who spoke the word, when was it spoken. And John answers that. In the beginning it was spoken, it was God who spoken the word and the word was about God.

Theos being nominative suggests that the word belongs to God and is from God so instead of saying the word was God, we should simply say the word is God's or God's word for it is from Him and about Him.

If not you confuse yourself by suggesting that John Hebrew who believe in one God was saying that God was God and was with Himself and He became flesh and dwelt among men and came to reveal Himself to men but this contradicts the very word of God that reveals God the one true God who is above all and sent forth His word. And like verse 14 records, the revelation became flesh and dwelt among men

Sir, with all due respect, you know this is not true. The passage was clear. That passage like any other passages show the divinity of Jesus before his earthly birth. Jesus was with the Father at creation before the creation itself began. I have made my points, it is not to convince you but to share my thoughts. You have shared yours and u are well respected and celebrated. Thanks.

gohf:
if you understood my response would you be repeating the question?

You have successfully derailed this platform from its original purpose. Let's go back to the thread cos I don't like vague discussion.
The op asked three questions and I provided answers. Let's see any of my answer you disagree with and let's know ur viewpoint, because currently I am not sure what ur stand is.
OPS QUESTIONS
1. Is Jesus God?
2. Is Jesus equal to the Father?
3. Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural?

MY ANSWERS
1. Jesus is god (elohim/theos), but Jesus is not the Father.
2. Jesus is equal with the Father but no equal to the Father as the Father as exalted him to be in charge of his creation and to sit with him on his throne (equal with the Father) but he is subject to the Father and his will is subject to the will of the Father and the Father is above him (not equal to the Father).
3. The Trinity message is scriptural only to Salvation as the Father (1) sent the son (2) and the Father through the son sent the holy spirit (3) who together united in purpose help mankind to achieve or attain the salvation of God. But the Father is Supreme Over the son as the son is supreme over the spirit. The three are united in purpose but distinct in authority and roles.

Those are my points and I supported them with scriptures in my first response to the op. If you have any issues with any of the above, be specific, let's not derail the thread on a side topics. Thanks.

gohf:
there are two translations of psalm 8:5, the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew text which was popular at that time and the Masoretic text, which has the term me-elohim. So it isn't about the author of Hebrew correctly the scripture but teaching based on what they themselves have been taught. For example the author places the altar of incense at the most holy place instead of the holy place

Though the question was not directed to you but I respect your input. But you did not anstmy question? Was 'elohim' in Psalm 8:5 the same as 'angelos' in Hebrews? I believe it's a straight forward question.

gohf:
I don't think we should be taking Jacobs account as a consideration of one who actually saw the face of God, infact that angel is said to be called Peniel, face of God doesn't mean the angel is God's face does it?

No man has seen God because there is only one God to see, even Moses's face was covered when God descended with only his back visible.

This term divinity should only be understood as the holiness of God and not like a chieftaincy title that is acquired. Other religions claims diverse forms of divinity thereby diverse gods, but there is only one God therefore His holiness set apart from the rest which are false gods.

Sir, why all this back and forth? If you dispel Jacob, can you also dispel Manoah and his wife in Judges 13:22 or Abraham in Genesis 18:16-33?
You mentioned Moses. Let me ask you. Do you believe Moses saw the back of the Father? Because if you see my back, you have seen me. And Jesus said 'No man has seen the Father AT ANY TIME except the son who comes from the Father.' The Father never comes to the realm of men, he only send his messengera in his name to act in his stead before the sons of men. Moses only said the fullness of the Father's glory revealed in the angelic glory of the angels whom the Father has put in charge of the Israelite. Moses never saw the Father. Not him, not any before nor after him till date. Not even Stephen in his vision nor John of Patmos in his revelation.

gohf:
That's why I wrote on that thread the term and usage of Elohim needs to be properly understood.

When you say 1. The elohim was a general Hebrew term to reference divinity we also need to understand it was used to specifically teach that there is only one true Divine while the rest were false.

And we know that some of God's sons fell and started playing God on the earth. Now we have to consider that the very first commandment and decree from God is to denounce any other God. You shall have no other god/elohim besides me. Of which is became blasphemy and idolatry to consider anyone or anything God or Divine asides from God Almighty YHVH.

There also no where in scripture where God ascribes divinity to His word, either directly nor through His prophets. Nor does He in anyway suggest that His word is God even when He promises to send the Messiah.

Jesus is king anointed by God and made so by God, he was never anointed nor appointed a god nor a divine

Okay sir. Can you explain in your own way- John 1:1. I am listening since you claim that the word of god (theos) is not god (theos). I am waiting. Because I have explained how Jesus is god but not the Father but you said no. Explain John 1:1 in your own way. I am listening.

gohf:
el also means strength or leader, it doesn't make every strong leader a god but they may claim to be in the eyes of people. Psalm 82 isn't the acknowledge of gods which the Torah rejects, but with correct interpretation and understanding we see that these were self elevated beings who were going to be brought low like Lucifer.

Angels were only one time or two referred to as elohim, and usually with the term benelohim to show their submission to the one true Elohim. We see in the book of revelation that they refer to themselves as servants of Elohim and not elohim.

So, if you know me, you will know I rarely talk and I don't like back and forth. I have Hebrew and Greek scriptures. I don't like picking errors, but I rather ask questions. According to your rebuttal in your first paragraph, just two quick questions. (1) Verse 1. Why were the 'gods' called an 'heavenly court' if they are not heavenly beings? (2) Verse 6. Why were the 'gods' referred to as the 'chikdren of the Most High' if they were not heavenly beings?
On your second paragraph. It is true that angels do not refer to themselves as 'elohim' except in the case of Moses, but that aside. If that is your point, it can be used against you by those who do not believe that Jesus is God. Because Jesus never referred to himself as 'theos"- god. Not even 'son of god". He humbling calls himself 'the son of man' and messenger of god.
John 17:3
[3]And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
But we know that he is god (divine/deity).
Thanks.

gohf:
Your number 1 & 2 is suggesting that the Father and God are not the same person, but two different persons. Is that what you believe?

Your "last paragraph" reminds me of my post in https://www.nairaland.com/8337768/term-elohim

About the elohim, and I understand your response is saying Jesus is an elohim, but when we understand scripture we realize that angels are mainly called messengers so as to different them from those beings trying to play God and deceive men. So to say Jesus is not the Elohim but an elohim is associate him with the other references which were related to false gods that God will judge.

I respect your view sir. In my explanation I have proven three things. (1) The word 'elohim' god was a general word for 'divinity' at the time. You can agree with me on the basis of Jacob and Manoah that I quoted. (2) I showed from scriptures that Jesus was divine even before his birth and has been with the Father even before the foundation of the word- John 17:5. He is god (elohim/divine/deity). (3) That the Father is supreme and superior to the son- Jesus. That Jesus himself showed that he is subject to the Father in all things. He called the Father his God and derived his authority from his father- John 20:17.
Conclusion: Jesus is god and above all, except the Father who is above Jesus and above all.- I Corinthians 15:27-28
That is the position of the scriptures. I am Pentecostal and I am loyal to the scriptures and not denomination.

MaxInDHouse:
That makes all angels gods too.

Do you agree?

Yes, I do, since they are 'divine' that makes them 'god' (elohim). According to Psalm 82:1
‭Psalms 82:1 NIV‬
[1] God (elohim-) presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods” (elohim):

I interprete this passage as "the Father (elohim) god presides in the great assembly, he renders judgement among the angels (refer to by the psalmist as gods (elohim) just like in Psalms 8:5. I believe this is somehow relatable with Job 1:6 and Job 2:1. I believe in both passages, the scriptures refers to the heavenly assembly or court as an assembly of angels or heavenly beings who have been sent by the Father to lead and guide the affairs of men. They give report and account to the Father on how they manage the affairs of men. I think along the line, the issue of idolatry has it stem from men's encounters with this heavenly beings overtime. So, yes. Angels were referred to across scriptures as 'elohim' which means god.

MaxInDHouse:
Both are saying the same thing.

Angels are spirit creatures so they are closely related to God who is also a spirit than humans!

Good. You are correct sir. I believe you have at least some knowledge of Hebrew language. The Hebrew word-'elohim' means god, divine, deity, or supernatural. They use the same word for angels as in the case of Jacob who said he fought against god (elohim-) and prevail but we know that he fought not against the Father but angel, as no man can fight against the Father and win. Also in the case of Manoah and his wife, they saw an angel and they said they would die because they have seen god, but we know that wat they saw was an angel and not the Father.
Maxim. Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus before he was born? I mean do you believe that he has been in existence before his birth or that his life began at his birth?
If you do, in which I know you do. Why don't you then agree with me that Jesus is god (elohim, deity, and divine) from the standpoint that the word 'elohim' is use for divinity, but he is not the Father- the supreme god over all other god and that only the Father is superior to him and Jesus is in turn superior to all other creature in heaven and on earth.