₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
In John 17:3, did Jesus say that we needed to know only him?

Smile. Sir, one Bible verse cannot be interpreted in isolation. I understand your view, but I think we need to balance all the passages that speaks about salvation and how a man is saved and not just look at it from just a single lens. If we agree that believing in Jesus alone is enough. How do we then explain Jesus statement in Matthew 7:21-23?
Matthew 7:21-23
[21]“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.
[22]On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’
[23]But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

And James 2:14-26
James 2:14,18-20
[14]What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?
[18]Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”
[19]You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.
[20]How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?

Thanks.

cutecommend:
It is very important I help you this morning so that you won't be living in false confidence while moving on the wrong path.

The truth is that if anyone dies now with any sin, they are going straight to hell; whether they are sinners or believers. But if you accept Jesus Christ and repent before dying or before rapture, you will make heaven. Someone's last state before they die or before rapture, determines their going to heaven. And going to heaven requires no sin in you at your last state on earth.

It is only Jesus Christ that takes one to heaven. If you are morally upright without sin and yet do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, you cannot make heaven. And if you are a Christian and you do not ask for pardon on any known or unknown sin before you die or before rapture, you cannot make heaven.

The purpose of God implanting sanctification and holiness in people is to make them live lives without sin.

While there is heaven for Christians who will die in the great tribulation for refusing to comply with the anti-christ: this is after rapture, I tell you this truth: SIN TAKES A MAN TO HELL.

It is a beautiful Sunday. Please pray quickly, accept Jesus today and repent from all sins. Also attend a Bible-believing church.

It is only sin that leads man to damnation. That is what is consistent with scriptures.
We need to look at it from two angles.

1. What is the essence of believing in Christ? It is to deliver man from sin. So if a man claims to have Christ and continues in his sin, his mental acceptance of Christ cannot and will not deliver him. James 2:14-26
2. What about a man who did not hear about Christ till his death? Imagine our forefathers who lived before the 17th century when Christianity came or nations who had laws that restrict the penetration of Christianity. Will God a Just God judge them based on them not believing in a person they have never even heard of? Did Job, a non Jew and non Christian believe in Jesus or the Jewish customs? But he was said to be blameless and upright before God. Romans 2:11-16.
Every man shall be judged by HIS WORKS. Our belief in Christ helps us to live that life, if it doesn't help a man live right, then his belief is as good as 'p' in psychology. James 2:14.
Thanks.

tctrills:
Jesus Christ is not like any other God, he is the one true God like his Father.

He is the Jehovah of the old testament. David called him his Lord. The men of old had a relationship with him.
He was the God that led the children of Israel across the Red Sea.
And he is the one that has asked us to be his witnesses.

Sir, I don't think you need to argue this any further sir. I have engaged them and I think both of you are looking at it from two different angles that can be united and that will represent the scriptures. I have given the same reply to Mr Gabriel and other person and we all agreed. This is the true position of the scriptures sir.

1. That Jesus is god based on his divinity and existence and also the confirmation of Thomas in John 20:28-29
John 20:28-29
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

2. That the Father is greater than the son (Jesus). This is also confirm by Jesus himself severally and accept that the Father is his god as clearly stated in John 14:28 and John 20:17.

3. That the son (Jesus) is subject to the Father and the Father is not subject to the son as clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.
1 Corinthians 15:27-28
[27]For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

I DO NOT THINK YOU DISAGREE WITH ANY OF MY THREE POINTS ABOVE.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
Question 1&2 are same.
James is the first brother of Jesus {Matthew 13:55}Jesus told him many things which this young man found so difficult to believe not until Jesus appeared to him after his resurrection {1Corinthians 15:7} to prove that truly he is the Christ. Now as a Jew those with James were former Judaists who converted to Christianity so they now found it difficult to believe that the law of circumcision doesn't apply anymore in Christianity that doesn't mean it's James who sent them it's evident that they may have been arguing with James over the matter before sending words to the Apostles and Older men in Jerusalem {Act 15:1-2} and after the Governing Body (Apostle and Older men) from Jerusalem sent a letter to all Christians Judas and Silas took the message to them everyone submitted to the decision of the Governing Body! Act 15:30-33

Question 3
There was a rumour that Paul is telling the Jews not to circumcise their children again which is a lie, what the Apostles are saying is that circumcision is not a compulsion for anyone who embrace the faith in Christ so if someone is a Jew that has been their custom from time immemorial but such mustn't be forced on a gentile who never had anything to do with Judaism but now ready to become a Christian through faith in Jesus Christ.
Paul himself wrote in his letter:
To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law. To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some. But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others. 1 Corinthians 9:20-23

So they are all on the same page!

Sir, you made series of points that I also share except:
1. In your reaction to the first two questions, you said "some from James" meant those who must have argued with James. I don't not agree. If that was the fact, Peter and Barnabas wouldn't have respected them to the level of being afraid of them. James believed and held that the Jews should continue to observe the customs which included circumcision but not the Gentiles. While Paul believed that circumcision is useless both to the Jews and the Gentiles. Remember, the agreement in Acts 15 was only to the Gentiles while the Jews maintained the status quo which I don't think really sat well with Paul seeing that Paul do not want any difference or distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles. This was show in Paul's letter to the Galatians in Galatians 3:23-29
Galatians 3:23-29
[23]Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.
[24]Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith.
[25]And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.
[26]For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
[27]And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.
[28]There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

James held a different view on how the law was to be practiced different from Paul's view.
Even if you notice James letter, unlike Peter's and Paul's, he only sent his letter to the Jews alone across the world and not to Gentiles - James was remembered as a Judaistic Christian in his practice, a blend of Judaism and Christianity.
James 1:1
[1]This letter is from James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.I am writing to the “twelve tribes”—Jewish believers scattered abroad.Greetings!

delkuf:
good viewpoint. But all this your English and blabbing, is confusing your viewpoint

Smile. I will take note of that.
Thank.

MaxInDHouse:
This is not about Jesus is Michael or JW we are now talking about what Paul and James said.

James is not talking about WORKS of the law remember he while making his point he mentioned Abraham and Rahab for leaving their comfort zone to do what God asked them to do! James 2:23-24

These two examples had nothing to do with mosaic laws because they are not with Moses!

Smile. Maxim. Let me ask you this tree questions on James and Paul and highlight each question as you answer them specifically.
1. What did Paul meant by "some (friends) from James" in Galatians 2:12.?
2. What was the viewpoint of these "friends from James" on circumcision according to same Galatians 2:12.?
3. The discussion in Acts 21:18-24. What were the friends of James and James trying to make Paul do to convince the converting Jews in relation to the Mosaic law and the Jewish customs?

We have both read scriptures, I do not criticize even with my knowledge of scriptures, I try to look at why people think the way they think and also respect it as long as it does not affect the core principles of salvation.

Pls answer those questions one after the other. Pls don't lump it up. Address them point by point since you are of the opinion that James was not peculiar about the law of Moses. Thanks.

delkuf:
share your viewpoint, let me under you

1. That Jesus is god based on his divinity and existence and also the confirmation of Thomas in John 20:28-29
John 20:28-29
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

2. That the Father is greater than the son (Jesus). This is also confirm by Jesus himself severally and accept that the Father is his god as clearly stated in John 14:28 and John 20:17.

3. That the son (Jesus) is subject to the Father and the Father is not subject to the son as clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28.
1 Corinthians 15:27-28
[27]For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

I DO NOT THINK YOU DISAGREE WITH ANY OF MY THREE POINTS ABOVE.
THANKS.

MaxInDHouse:
There is nothing like good works, after Jesus' mission on earth the only good work anyone can engage himself is to join Jesus' disciples in the preaching and teaching work he assigned to them! Luke 18:18-23

Before Jesus works of faith is whatever God asks us to do outside our comfort zone that's what James is saying but some like you feels when you claim faith in Jesus without joining his disciples to preach and teach in your neighbourhood is enough ọmọ that's what James is saying!

Paul was telling Christians in Rome that many Jews feels its through the works of mosaic laws that they will gain salvation!

Smile. Sir, James was saying nothing in relation to JW. I understand the fact that you are a strong adherent to the JW but please don't let it cloud your judgement. What I have done is to show you clearly from scriptures that even among the apostles there were some topical issues which were not agreed upon. We all are body of Christ if we hold on to what he represents irrespective of denomination or creed.
For instance:
You can't convince me that Jesus is Michael and it may be impossible for me to convince you that he is not. But what does that change? Is that disagreement enough for either of us to lose salvation or be rejected by God. I think the obvious answer is No. We need to grow to where we all need to matter on what matter and stop majoring on minors.

delkuf:
you own come serious oooo. We have been battling with maxi and his brothers but this your own is on a whole new level

Sir, what level sir? Please, read all my write up on it and you will understand my viewpoint is well evident in the scriptures.

MaxInDHouse:
You misconstrued the whole thing!

Paul talked about faith in Jesus' teachings against faith in the works of the mosaic laws {Romans 10:4} James talked about those claiming faith in Christ but aren't doing the WORKS Jesus assigned to his disciples.

According to Paul someone who based his salvation on the laws of Moses is not saved {Luke 18:18-23} James based his letter on the WORKS Jesus assigned which some doesn't feel is necessary as they thought Jesus' death has given them direct Visa to God's Kingdom when they refused to do the work he assigned to his faithful disciples! Matthew 28:19-20

So my guy you didn't get it at all both of them are on the same page!

Sir, you didn't get the message of both men. You only interpreted their intentions which was correct. James will trying to dispel the misinterpretation of Paul's letter especially to the Romans. People still misinterpreted it today that faith alone without good works equals salvation but James pointed it out that it is our good works that shows our faith in God.
Sir, it is not coincidence that both of them quoted the same verse Genesis 15:6, talked about the same man - Abraham and explained the same subject - Salvation through faith and works. Even though, Paul's intention and message was clear, people of that time misconstrued it and James was addressing that. Actually Paul was not only talking about the Mosaic law even though he also addressed that, but he also taught that salvation comes only by faith and not by the works of the Mosaic law .
James was a strong believer in the law, that's why Paul usually refer to people if the circumcision as "people from James." that's is people from the camp of James - Galatians 2:12.
James believed that Jewish believers should still keep the Mosaic law along with their Faith in Christ while the Gentiles should still keep the moral part of the Mosaic laws. But Paul on the other hand believed that the law has been outdated by grace and both the Jews and the Gentiles should not keep the law of Moses. That was evident in Paul and James conversation in Acts 21:17-24. Pay attention to verse 21.
My point is this. If you read all the letters of Paul and other apostles, you will understand that there had always been minor different views on some topic like the circumcision, food, Mosaic law, culture of the Gentiles and how it should be managed in relation to the Jews amongst other issues, but what has and will always keep us together is Jesus and Jesus alone.

MaxInDHouse:
To remind me what i have been taught, the scripture, chapter, verse and how i was taught to apply it.



Please don't lie against the scriptures there is no disagreement among the shepherds regarding doctrine and teaching!

That's why I said Maxim, you still have a lot to learn about church history even from the Apostles days. So, you do not know the difference in Paul and James views on Salvation and Judaism.
That's why I advised that you need to broading your views. For a start, read Romans 4 and James 2:14 downwards and analyze to yourself Paul and James views on Genesis 15:6 and how James reanalyzed Paul's teaching to the Romans on Faith and works and Abraham's righteousness. Then link it to Paul's description of James friends when he rebuked Peter in Galatians 2:11-14.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
I just helped you to figure out why there is contradictions among you people it's because God's Holy Spirit doesn't TEACH individuals otherwise there's no need for shepherds and teachers in the church teaching their fellow believers!



Jesus appointed Paul directly but when it comes to teachings Paul relied on what the Apostles and Older men concluded in Jerusalem! Act 16:3-4

Your first point:
Who guides the Human Shepard? What is the role of the Holy Spirit to individual believers?

Your second point:
Paul did not rely on the other apostle. He only relied in the spirit of God in him. Galatians 2 proved that. Read it yourself.
Galatians 2:6
[6]And the leaders of the church had nothing to add to what I was preaching. (By the way, their reputation as great leaders made no difference to me, for God has no favorites.)

Also, Paul did not seem to agree with some of the decision James made in Acts 15, most especially on food offered to idol because Paul taught the Corinthians otherwise in 1 Corinthians 8. And even James accused Paul of teaching against the resolution in Act 15 in Acts 21:17-25.

All these are irrefutable proofs that the Holy Spirit is the most reliable teacher and guide for all true Christians. Not those who lied against the spirit to distirt the truth of the scriptures anyways, but the true followers.

MaxInDHouse:
The Holy Spirit will TEACH a small group who will dispense the teaching to the rest.
For instance in the first century there was a problem regarding the case of fellow believers who are not circumcised whether they are qualified members of the congregation or they must join their fellow believers who has been circumcised as Judaists before convertion to be counted as bonafide members of the congregation.
If the Holy Spirit is to teach each person back then how can Christians in all lands agree?
Because of arguments here and there each person quoting the scriptures to back their opinion the matter was taken to Jerusalem where the Governing Body (Apostles and Older men) prayed over the matter, God's Holy Spirit led them and their conclusion was sent to all the congregations. Act 15:1-29

If holy spirit was teaching each person how can that be possible for the entire association of believers to become One just as Jesus prayed? John 17:22

You only amplified what I said about Acts 15. The only area you should but u don't want to angry is that the Holy Spirit resides in the heart of every true believer and he directs and guides them into all truth. How will even an elder teach the congregation if he himself has not been taught by the spirit? Why will Paul lay claim that he has received his message from no one but from Christ himself through revelation even though he didn't see Christ in his earthly ministry. Galatians 1 proves this that the Holy spirit teaches man without human interference even though fellowship is Key. Or
Maxim, will you interprete Paul's testimony to the Galatians to me in Galatians 1. The whole chapter but let me just drop some verses.

Galatians 1:12,16-19
[12]I received my message from no human source, and no one taught me. Instead, I received it by direct revelation from Jesus Christ.
[16]to reveal his Son to me so that I would proclaim the Good News about Jesus to the Gentiles.When this happened, I did not rush out to consult with any human being.
[17]Nor did I go up to Jerusalem to consult with those who were apostles before I was. Instead, I went away into Arabia, and later I returned to the city of Damascus.
[18]Then three years later I went to Jerusalem to get to know Peter, and I stayed with him for fifteen days.
[19]The only other apostle I met at that time was James, the Lord’s brother.

Thanks

MaxInDHouse:
Was Peter TAUGHT anything new that all other Christians don't know?
Ọmọ Jesus commanded that they will go to all the nations and make disciples {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} so that is not a new teaching others don't know but when it's time to learn new thing that may cause a division the little group leading the entire Christian organization global must come together for the holy spirit to lead them into scriptural truths. Act 15:28-29

Holy Spirit will never ever teach contradicting things!

The holy spirit teaches new things sir.
Jesus didn't teach everything to his disciples when he was with them. He knew the holy spirit will complete that.
John 16:12-13
[12]“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now.
[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

Yes, Jesus told them to go to all the nations, but they didn't have the full understanding, they thought it was to minister to all the Jews in all the four corners of the earth. They ministered only to Jews just like the Jews created synagogues in other Gentile nations for the Jews in those areas. But thanks be to God for the Cornelius story and the incorporation of apostle Paul. Both experience open the window of the Gospel to the Gentiles.
Contradictory message? Since inception, as the church continues to grow, the church had always had their views like in the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. Paul and James also had their rough edges and friction in the explanation of Genesis 15 on Abraham's faith being recorded as righteousness unto him when you read Romans 4 and James 2:14 downwards.
As a body, we will always have our issues, but love, respect and humility will help us all attain the perfection God wants. I love JW, Catholics, Pentecostal and what have you. At the end of the day, God through Christ will Judge EACH MAN according to HIS work. Not his creed or fellowship or knowledge but his work towards God and his fellow men.
Thanks

Gabrielshow24:
I applaud you for your sincerity!!!

You're different from him🥲.
Even the verses they allude to condemns them!!!

I remember when I asked your friend, Max, how he would reconcile the phrase "one of the chief princes" with other characteristics of Jesus, you should have seen the way he reinvented set theory🤣🤣🤣.

Coining the term "First set" 🙃.
It's nice having a logical discourse with you.

It's shows you are indeed harmless as a dove and wise as a serpent🙃.

Glory to God sir and thanks to your civility and sincerity.
My brother, I know that all of us are right and wrong in different ways. And just like Paul said "we know in part and in that part we speak." Wat is Key is that we all accept the death and resurrection of Jesus, the supremacy of the Father and the importance of living a good, blameless and upright life. If we abide by these, no matter our differences in doctrine and views, we will reign with Christ in the hereafter.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
What you failed to understand is that the Holy Spirit only teaches where Jesus is the invisible chairman and Jesus only attends such meeting where two or three are GATHERED TOGETHER {Matthew 18:20} not just one person imagining things alone!

Maxim. Your point is not wrong but also no entirely true. Peter's confession on the Cornelius conversion shows that the holy spirit minister to him alone about salvation to the Gentiles even when other thought differently. Acts 11. But that personal revelation changed the dynamics. It is true that we learn more in fellowship, but it is not true that the individual cannot be taught by the spirit individually. But I get your point sir on fellowship.

Gabrielshow24:
I applaud you for your sincerity!!!

You're different from him🥲.
Even the verses they allude to condemns them!!!

I remember when I asked your friend, Max, how he would reconcile the phrase "one of the chief princes" with other characteristics of Jesus, you should have seen the way he reinvented set theory🤣🤣🤣.

Coining the term "First set" 🙃.
It's nice having a logical discourse with you.

It's shows you are indeed harmless as a dove and wise as a serpent🙃.

Glory to God sir and thanks to your civility and sincerity.
My brother, I know that all of us are right and wrong in different ways. And just like Paul said "we know in part and in that part we speak." Wat is Key is that we all accept the death and resurrection of Jesus, the supremacy of the Father and the importance of living a good, blameless and upright life. If we abide by these, no matter our differences in doctrine and views, we will reign with Christ in the hereafter.
Thanks.

Janosky:
Your comments noted Sir.

The intriguing fact is all the different explanations of the Trinity are conflicting and contradictory.
This leads to the question:

Why is the same ghost revealing conflicting info to Trinitarians?

I do not know why it should be conflicting sir. If we all stand on the scriptures, we should just stay in what it says. If the scriptures clearly show that the Father is greater than his Son Jesus, I don't see any reason why anyone should speak otherwise. And if the scriptures shows that the Father, his son and his spirit each played their roles in the salvation of mankind, I don't see a reason why another will go contrary to that father that the three are united (one) in purpose.

Gabrielshow24:
Of course, I do.
Now do you allude to the JW 'fact' that Jesus is Michael 🤨?

No. That's not evident in the scriptures. If Jesus is Michael as they claimed, the John of Patmos in his revelation would have clearly stated that, and also Jude in Jude 1:9, but he distinctly mention Michael as an angel.
They may have their reasons based on their interpretation of Daniel 12:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12:7.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
OK, so it's the Holy Spirit that's teaching you shey?
Well i will be here when your friends who are taught by the same spirit disagree to WORK together as one inspite of your so called FAITH! John 2:18

As for Jehovah's Witnesses please don't hate them for what i'm saying o but be rest assured that none of them see you as his or her fellow believer in Christ Jesus because we must WORK together if truly we are One in Christ to the glory of our heavenly Father! John 17:20-23

So if that's not possible then you aren't worshiping our God.

You can ask any of them to expatiate on what i just told you.

Peace!

Smile. My JW friends and benefactors see me more like family and trust me with their secrets and children.
The holy Spirit is my teacher and a trustworthy one at that. Imagine his role in teaching the first Apostles even when there was no new testament scriptures or antecedents. The holy was all they needed to guide them into all truth.
John 16:13
[13]When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

Thank you.

Gabrielshow24:
Is it a vague question?
That fatherhood is part of the characteristics of God? 🤔

Or is it because of the false projections which you have formed, based on the chimes of Max, that's why you assume I believe Jesus is the same as the Father?

What you discuss and what will be discussed is always about identity !!!

Nothing more.
No one disputes that the two identities are different!!!

I just wanted to show you that Jesus is both God and Lord.

And these two: God and Lord are nothing more but concepts construed and anything can fit in; if it matches the boundaries of such conceptual definitions!!!

Sir, i didn't even pay attention to your conversation with Max. If I had, maybe I would have known ur opinion. Your view is beautiful and true.
1. Jesus is Lord and God. The statement of Thomas proves that the disciples believed that Jesus is Lord and God.
John 20:28-29
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

2. The son, Jesus, is subject to the Father in all things and even in the Future, the Father will be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28 also proves that.
1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

If we both agree on these two grounds. Then I don't think there is a problem. Do you?

MaxInDHouse:
Exactly the same thing all of you claims rendering you unproductive!

Jesus formed a group (disciples) that he sent out in pairs {Luke 10:1} to preach and teach what he taught them {Matthew 10:11-13} so that the system will continues until they cover the planet with the teaching of Jesus {Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8} that is what will make them One with Jesus and his father {John 17:20-23} but contradicting teachings are the works of Satan the rebel so that you people will never come to an agreement on how to do the work Jesus assigned to his faithful disciples instead you will continue arguing against one another each claiming he is been taught by the Holy Spirit!

You can't make me speak against the JW. I have them as friends and benefactors. I respect them a lot. I know your organization and other denomination history and doctrine like the back of my hands. Every denomination has its flaw. No one should prove holier than thou mentality. The perfect teacher is the spirit and he teaches people with time as they grow in him. Even at a point, the disciples you refer who were all Jews thought the salvation message was only for the Jews and they preached only to Jews living within and outside Jerusalem unlike the Cornelius story in Act 10. But with time they grew in the spirit and into their mission.
That is why I always tell people that to grow, you must not be faithful to your organization or your denomination but the word and the spirit. Maxim, you have a lot in stock, but you need to be broad minded and circumspect.
Thanks.

Gabrielshow24:
I never said anything, it's you trying to infer my standpoint 😁.
Part of the characteristic of God is what? 🙃
Or better put is Fatherhood part of the characteristic of God?

Sir, I think I need to know your standpoint before we move forward. What exactly is ur standpoint on this issue so at least I can know exactly what you want from me and not just answering your questions vaguely.

Gabrielshow24:
What's the definition of "Father"?
I will like to know your definition 🙃

Father is the progenitor of a child. The Father in this case is the progenitor or bearer of his son Jesus.
Wait. Are you saying Jesus is the Father, cos Jesus never said he is the Father, not once, not ever? I guess your not trying to imply that. Because I would have asked you to explain 1 Corinthians 15:28 and it will be impossible for you to explain. Because that verse alone out of other related verses show a VERY CLEAR distinction between Jesus (the son) and his Father.
Note: Jesus was (begotten) of the Father, but the Father was (unbegotten). Jesus has his authority and sufficiency from the Father, the Father has his authority and sufficiency from none.

MaxInDHouse:
The funny thing about you is expecting a son of disobedience to agree with you on the same line of thought regarding the identity of Jesus.
No matter what you say as long as you refuse to accept what Jehovah's Witnesses teach you can never ever find a single church where their teaching will suit you to join them and WORK together with them as disciples who will preach and teach to make disciples!

Am sorry, but I will like to be polite to him. I have also held his views before when I was loyal to Denominationalism. But when I grew in the word I learnt from the spirit himself. I have always proposed the best way the Trinity message can be taught in a more scriptural and uncomplicated way. Jesus is only god in his divinity, he is not the Father and the Father is superior to him. Jesus himself made that clear severally. I don't know why people just want to stick to something that is not scriptural.

Gabrielshow24:
why then did you say Jesus is not God!

Also What is the definition of Father? 🤨

Maybe your misquoting me. I have maintained that Jesus is god all through my write-ups. So that's settle.
Secondly, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus himself and the apostles made that clear. The Father is greater than Jesus and he has put everything under his son Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28. Or are you claiming that Jesus is the son and also the Father? I don't get it. The word of Jesus after his resurrection made it clear in John 20:17.
John 20:17
[17]“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

There is no where in the scriptures where Jesus or any of his apostle taught us that Jesus is the Father, but they taught us that the Father sent his son to be in charge of all his creation through salvation.
Do u have any contrary view to this?

Gabrielshow24:
Good from your definition is Jesus God?

Yes sir. He is divine. He is worthy of worship. John 5:22-23
[22]In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge,
[23]so that everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son is certainly not honoring the Father who sent him.
He met both criteria. That was why I said we must distinct between the title 'god' and the person of the Father. Is Jesus god? Yes. Is Jesus the Father? No. Who is greater, Jesus or the Father? The Father.
Note the statement of Thomas:
John 20:27-29
[27]Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”
[28]“My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.
[29]Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”
I think that clarifies it. The title god is not the Father name or restricted to him alone. But his supremacy and his nature or being is his alone, no one can compare, not even Jesus.

Gabrielshow24:
Let me ask you a question.
What makes God God?
Or what's the simple definition of being God?

Good question sir. Leaving the etymology of the root word in both Hebrew and Greek which meant deity or divinity. Literarily, the word God meaning 'something or someone worthy of worship." That is the meaning of god. But the etymology of the word in both Hebrew and other Canaanites languages, the word god is used for 'divinity' or deity," even angels or heavenly beings.
Thanks.

Janosky:
. 1. No, not the same being.
2. No, because nobody is equal with the Father.
Father meaning 'Senior'.
Ephesians 4:6, God the Father is the SENIOR of all beings.
3. No, Trinity NOT scriptural.
Many Trinitarians won't ever agree with your claim or your espoused belief about the doctrine.



True, indeed.

Other Trinitarians won't accept your views about the Trinity doctrine.
Your explanation contradicts the Nicene Creed, the standard format of the doctrine.

Yes.

You have said the truth sir. Any trinitarian that claim that Jesus and the Father are equal in existence, authority and being is not following the exact teachings of Jesus himself who clearly stated that the Father is greater than him and that he derived his power from the Father who is his God.
I am not loyal to denomination and I don't need anyone to agree. The Trinity doctrine in its originality relates only to Salvation and not authority. The Father planned the salvation of mankind, Jesus died for that salvation, and after his ascension, he sent the spirit to guide the saved ones into all truth. The three are one (united in purpose). That should be the message of Trinity. Any step beyond that to say the oneness means one is not greater than the other is nothing but myopic. The Father is the One True God, Jesus is the Son of God whom God has raised to his right hand in the God class and the spirit is of God whom he has sent to guide and preserve the called. That is my comprehensive submission on the Trinity topic over the years.
Thanks.

MaxInDHouse:
WRONG!

Do you agree that your own dad is your God?
If not then Jesus is not my God the only true God used Jesus to create all other things {Colossians 1:15-16} just as God used your dad to make you!

This is why Jesus said:

“Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17

So God made Jesus King (Lord) over all of us but when talking about our God we all have just One who is the father and God of both Jesus and me! John 17:3

Sir, how do you serve the Father and do away with Jesus in worship? I don't understand. How do you worship the father if not through his son?

MaxInDHouse:
All angels are gods/divine just as humans are gods too but when talking about my own God it is not Jesus just as no human is my God!

Okay sir. I respect you. Do you believe that Jesus is human just like me and you or you believe that he has been with God from the beginning and he is the divine word of God who became flesh? I have just one god, the Father of our Lord Jesus and he has handed over the kingdom of the earth to his son Jesus just like the op was comparing in the case of Pharaoh handing over the entire Egypt to Joseph. I worship the one true god, the Father of all creation through our Lord and Savior Jesus. The Father is superior/greater than the son and the son is supreme over all other creation.

gohf:
distorted because it is different from the lie you have been fed with?

Smile. I will continue to show my respect sir. What lie sir? The the Father is the One True God? That Jesus is divine and has been raised by God to the God class where all kneels in heaven and on earth should bow and worship before him? What area is the lie sir, is it me pointing it out that the Father, his son and his spirit are one (united in purpose and will) but distinct in authority, nature and role? That the Father is above and superior to the son and the son to the spirit? Tell me my lies sir. That Jesus is divine or a divinity or a deity and his life did not begin just when he was born like you and I? Pls point the lies out in all these my submissions.
Thanks.