₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
I'll reply you after working hours today.

Do have a productive day ahead.

Amen...and you too
Thanks alot for the good wish

OkCornel:
If according to you Daniel’s 70 week prophecy is already fulfilled. Kindly explain how;

A) Daniel 9 v 24 is already fulfilled.
1. Finish Transgression
2. Put an end to sin
3. Atone for wickedness
4. Bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
5. Seal up prophecy and vision
6. Anoint the most holy place.

B) Matthew 24 v 21 - Is the great tribulation already fulfilled? Yes or No. If yes, when exactly?

B) Concerning Matthew 24
Let me help u break the verses into the answer Jesus gave to address both questions that were asked.
Matthew 24:3
[3]Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?”

Questions
1) When will THIS happen? (2) What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?

Answers
1) This is a singular article. So,by THIS wat do the apostles mean or wat were they asking ABOUT? In verse 1-2...Jesus told them that the temple will be demolished and no stone left on the other. So the Apostles asked when(that is,timing and sign to watch out for). In verse 34. Jesus told them that this generation (a century marks a generation) will not pass until this things are fulfilled. From the above,we can agree Jesus was not talking about his second coming but referring to the temple. That been said; because of our time...the timing for the first question was to be before the end of that generation and dis was fulfilled...that generation did not end wen the temple was destroyed even John was still alive. Since the timing is answered...wat are the signs? These are the verses that talk about the sign of the destruction of the temple(not the end of time). Matthew 24:15-22,34. That tribulation was the worst in the Jewish history wen the Roman desecrated the holy place by entering the most holies. Read
Matthew 24:15-16
[15]“The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention!)
[16]“Then those in Judea must flee to the hills.

2) the second coming and the end of time.
Note that concerning the first question on the destruction of the temple...Jesus boldly said it that it will happen in that generation but concerning his second coming and the end of time Jesus said in verse 36 that he himself doesn't even know but the Father alone...so,it's different from dat generation will not pass. These are the passages that talked about the incident of his second coming and the end of time. Matthew 24: 5-14,23-33,35-51.


Even no part of the 22 chapters of Revelation mentioned 7 years...even the Revelation 11 ur laying strong claims to only talked of 42month(3and half years) of witnessing which is also the same period of the gentiles. It's not as if the gentiles have 3and half years and the witness av a different 3 and half years. It's still d same 3 and half. Read
Revelation 11:2-3
[2]But do not measure the outer courtyard, for it has been turned over to the nations. They will trample the holy city for 42 months.
[3]And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will be clothed in burlap and will prophesy during THOSE 1,260 days.”

So,I don't know how it that place read seven years to u or how it relates to Daniel

Thank u

OkCornel:
If according to you Daniel’s 70 week prophecy is already fulfilled. Kindly explain how;

A) Daniel 9 v 24 is already fulfilled.
1. Finish Transgression
2. Put an end to sin
3. Atone for wickedness
4. Bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
5. Seal up prophecy and vision
6. Anoint the most holy place.

B) Matthew 24 v 21 - Is the great tribulation already fulfilled? Yes or No. If yes, when exactly?

Dear OkCornel
Let me give u the simple basics so that u will not be lost along the line
In Daniel 9:1-20...Daniel was praying for days for the restoration of Jerusalem and the restoration of the temple. He wants Jerusalem that was then desolate to be rehabitated and the temple rebuilt so the service to God in the Jewish land can commence.

In Daniel 9;21-23... Gabriel (one of the high ranking Angels in heaven) came to meet him to tell him about the decree that had bn made in heaven during the cause of his prayer and now he want to make him understand the resolution of the Most High.

In Daniel 9:24...that is where I want u to pay attention to my analysis and wat the earliest saints agreed on in different dispensation.Let me quote it out first. Read
Daniel 9:24
[24]“A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.


Here is the interpretation of the above... Gabriel told Daniel that his prayer for Jerusalem and the temple had bn heard since without the temple the practice of Judaism(old form of Judaism before the Rabbinic Judaism that started in 70BC onward) cannot be practice. So the rebuilding of the temple was so important to Judaism (the Jewish worship). Gabriel told Daniel that 70 of 7 weeks calculated to be 490years had been decreed for your people(the Jews) to practice Judaism in it's purest form by ending (1) their rebellion against God that always make him purnish them through exile. (2) put an end to their sin (4) attone for their sin (true repentance). (5) to bring everlasting righteousness. (6) to confirm the prophetic vision(agreement between God and Abraham...to place their own part of obedience to God. (6) To anoint the most holy place(make the place of Gods abode holy so that the presence of God can reside. Those are the six criteria unless verse 25 will happen. Let's go analyse verse 25.

Daniel 9:25...let's quote it first.
Daniel 9:25
[25]Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times.

Now listen.
Seven set of seven(49years) plus sixty two sets of seven(434years) total of 483years from the command to rebuild the temple.
Note the 483years was to begin wen a command goes how to rebuild the temple not from wen Daniel saw the vision. In Nehemiah 2 during the twentieth years of king Artaxerxes of Assyria the command was given to Nehemiah to rebuild the wall and the temple even though they face perilous time under Sambalat and Tobiah which was explained by Gabirel in the last sentence of that verse. Historians calculated the timing of the decree of the king to the time in Luke 4:14-18 when Jesus entered the temple by the spirit to say Luke 4:18
[18]“The Spirit of the lord is upon me,
    for he has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released,
    that the blind will see,
that the oppressed will be set free,
   Was exactly 483...that can't be coincidence to wen Gabriel told Daniel that the Anointed One will come which marked the end of Judaism and the start of Christianity but for that to be accomplished,the Temple which is the symbol of Judaism must be destroyed. Note in verse 25 one seven(7years) was left out. Now let move to verse 26.

In Daniel 9:26...let me quote it first.
Daniel 9:26
[26]“After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.

We know that from that period Jesus made that statement the Jewish leader began to sort for his life. He was killed and the Jewish thought the biggest threat to Judaism was laid off not knowing that his death spelt doom and sometin big is coming for them.
A ruler(Rome(Nero)) will arise whose armies(led by Titus) would destroy the city(Jerusalem/Judea) and the Temple. The misery will last to the very end(the temple will remain desolate(unbuilt).

In Daniel 9:27 the last verse...let me quote it first
Daniel 9:27
[27]The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

I av explained this passage in a previous post but I will just keep it very short. The ruler(Rome) will make a treaty with THE PEOPLE(ur own version say MANY)...the people was definitely that's is the Jews or inhabitants of Judea. And the treaty was to allow them practice their religion and allow pigrims free entry(there is more to the treaty anyways like I av explained in previous post) which the Roman agreed. For a period of seven(7years) the whole war lasted(66-73CE) but in the middle of it (70CE) a sudden assualt was launched...the Jews were cut unaware and murders (an historian said over a million,another said over six hundred thousand)...and the treasury of the temple including the holies where only the high priest could enter was desecrated which is the "ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION".
But in few centuries from that time...the long reign of Rome came to an unexpected end to fulfil the later part of the prophesy.

These is wat our fathers believe which accords with history...this is wat I believe and can be proven without mincing words...the Antichrist is a spirit not human...and it was even only apostle John that talked about him and John was so careful to let us know that it's not human but a spirit and his spirit is at work. Read:
1 John 2:18
[18]Dear children, the last hour is here. You have heard that the Antichrist is coming, and already many such antichrists have appeared. From this we know that the last hour has come.
1 John 4:3
[3]But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.

I LOVE YOU BROTHER

....

OkCornel:
Explaining Isaiah 7 is a deflection from the real issues raised on Matthew 24 and Isaiah 14. But I will oblige you on this, and I am not going to dwell on this for too long.

Isaiah 7 verse 14 was a multiple fulfillment. One which is directly in connection to the sign Ahaz sought to confirm the two Canaanite Kings whom Israel feared would be raided by them would be destroyed. This was fulfilled in Isaiah 8 v 3-4.

The other fulfillment, which is not directly connected to the sign Ahaz sought for, but was counted as fulfillment of prophecy nonetheless was in Matthew 1 v 23.



Read Daniel 9 v 24-27 together, you'll see the context.

Verse 24 - The entire 70 x 7 is for the Jews and the city of Jerusalem to;
1. Finish Transgression
2. Put an end to sin
3. Atone for wickedness
4. Bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS
5. Seal up prophecy and vision
6. Anoint the most holy place.

As we are all aware, none of these has been achieved by the Jews and the inhabitants of Jerusalem up till today. Why? Because the "final 7" is yet to happen... after which the millennial kingdom of Christ would be set up.

Verse 25 & 26 - Clearly states "69 x 7" will span the period from when the word goes out to restore Jerusalem to when the anointed one will be cut-off.

Verse 27 - The "final 7" is yet to happen, as a covenant WITH MANY (not just the holy people) is yet to be in place. This is the same covenant which would be broken midway and the outer court of the temple would be trampled by the gentiles for 42 months (3.5 years i.e. one half of 7 years) in Revelation 11 v 2

If you dispute the above, then please prove to us how the Jews and inhabitants of Jerusalem achieved the 6 points set out in verse 24.


Jesus Christ


My answer to question 3 should answer this already.


"69 x 7" are already fulfilled. Read Daniel 9 v 25 slowly. The final 7 is yet to happen, as a covenant with many is not in place yet.
If Daniel's 70x7 is already fulfilled, are you implying the great tribulation has happened and Jesus second coming has happened, hmmm?



The signs of the second coming and end of the age - Matthew 24 v 14-15, 21,24 & 29






And by the way you’re yet to confirm whether the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 v 21 has happened or not I won’t let you off the hook on this one.

I told u...verse 21 of Matthew is talking about FUTURE tribulations,prior to that verse Jesus was talking about the destruction of the Temple which happened before that generation ended and the prophesy of Daniel fulfilled... Daniel 9 has nothing to do with Revelation 11...at all...
Lol...like I always say...no proof,no evidence,no solid and reliable references...just made up in ur head and d head of those who are brainwashed.
For ur information and those who care to know...below are second century church fathers and history on the fulfilment of Daniel 9...maybe u can show ur own proof and evidence...cos I can be going on a circle with u

OkCornel:
Dodging tactics?

I answered your 6 questions directly, and then asked follow up questions on areas of interest.

Take your time and read through, no need to reply in a haste.

Show us those answers na and how it was answered...are u trying to say it is harder copying and pasting than all this time wasting ur doing to reply me or search for witness who can't even face me to avail the foundation of his religion or belief?
I thought ur wiser than that na...why are u afraid? Are u not proud of ur answers cos am proud of mind and I can defend them with BOTH SCRIPTURES AND HISTORY...and not saying PAUSED without both biblical or historical proof

MaxInDHouse:
I have told you times without number:

You and i aren't worshiping the same God!

So stop thinking there's any similarity between my God and yours the difference is clear.
Please continue worshiping your God while i keep worshiping mine and stop quoting me because it can't work out friendship between you and i.
Goodbye!

I just confirmed that too...it's sealed

MaxInDHouse:
I wasn't following!
I hate reading misinformed churchgoer's posts so once i find out that someone isn't ready to learn i totally ignore them and their post!

Dear MaxinDHouse
Answer for urself whether it is right to learn from someone whose foundation is questionable and whose reasoning is programmed.

OkCornel:
Go and check my response, all questions answered.

I av read ur responses...more of u asking more questions from questions.
If ur sure of ur answer...just copy and paste...simple...then make them numerical...place each question beside the answer and highlight them. Demarcate the answer by spacing like I always do urs...is that hard to do just once and for all?
Or better still just tell me ur not interested...I won't force u...I will only give up... SIMPLE

OkCornel:
Go check my response, it's lengthy, and I'm on the last paragraph.

Hold off on a reply till I answer the last question

Brother...I always answer ur question numerically...wen u want to answer mind...answer it numerically...don't just answer ambiguously and say u av answer...be numerical from (1) to (4) then I will know which one u av answered so that I will know how to react to each of ur claim

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you to enroll for free home Bible study or you continue following misinformed Churchgoers up and down.
You and i aren't worshiping the same God!

In the beginning God never promised anyone heaven it's the earth that God always promise His faithful servants {Psalms 37:9-11, 29} but because the nation of Israelites was condemned with their city (Jerusalem) which supposed to be the center of God's Kingdom on earth {Matthew 23:37-38} Jesus reassured his faithful friends that God's promise of making Jews the first race is still on but the government house of God's Kingdom will no longer be on planet earth rather he is taking his co-rulers to where he came from "heaven" {John 14:1-3} so God's Kingdom will reign on planet earth but the rulers along with Jesus Christ will be in heaven!
The co-rulers are limited in number that's why Jesus often refer to them as "little flock" {Luke 12:32} they will become creatures without flesh so they can't marry like all other faithful servants of God again! Luke 20:34-36
But countless faithful servants of God and other Christians will live forever on planet earth {Matthew 5:5} that's why Jesus said John the baptist never qualified to join those going to heaven though because he was not baptized in spirit! Matthew 11:11-12


Just as Christ died and his body was buried all born again Christians will also die and be buried like seeds sown in the ground {1Corinthians 15:43} but some of them will not spend a second in their graves after the first set has been taken to heaven {1Thessalonians 4:17} others must wait until Michael (the Archangel) call them! 1Thessalonians 4:16



They will be taken to heaven as spirit beings so nobody can see them physically when they're moving but those on the earth will feel their departure!

Dear MaxinDHouse
For the first time I will agree with u...maybe we do not bliv in same God like u always emphasize...I know my God YAHWEH...maybe I don't know urs...
And Michael is not the one I am waiting for...I am waiting for Christ Jesus...so,like u said...maybe we are waiting for two different Messiah...wait for ur Michael...I will wait for my Christ Jesus(Son Of Man).
And maybe it was ur Messiah dat had come in 1914 like ur founder said...maybe...but mind had not come.
So,maybe we are not serving the same God like u always claim since all indications shows our different hopes and believe.
Matthew 24:23,26-27
[23]“Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it.
[26]“So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it!
[27]For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes.

OkCornel:
I assume you're aware this is working hours. I have urgent priorities to sort.

I don't think our discussion is a life or death issue...unless you're idle or something

Dear OkCornel
Idle?
The last reply I gave u was around past 8 in the morning...and the next one I reply was around 4p.m...
Don't u think I must av bn busy during those gap in time or u tink my time PAUSED from 8a.m and restarted by 4p.m like ur prophecy claim?
But u know why I like u...u are very wise...u successfully Dodged my four questions...for that I give u Kudos

LordReed:
LoLz! You want to start being disrespectful? Don't go down that road if you don't want to shed crocodile tears.

I already answered your question read the last post and read the attached screenshot.

U seem lost...and ur source seem lost too... unverified source...how can a source for that matter tell u something remains in the "THOUGHT" of the people during d time that the documented proof was that the Earth is FLAT. But ur source said it was in their thoughts. Nawa ooo...
Okay o...I mentioned Isaiah please mention one of those "THOUGHTERS" at the time abi na only Isaiah get name and talk am that time?
And I told u Isaiah was 7BC dating earlier than those unnamed thoughts. Maybe it was Isaiah that stated the thought since those thoughts are namely

OkCornel:
You don’t read, if not you’ll see how I’ve answered your questions.

I’ll answer you again in details.

Man...I can't be wasting my time on u using questions to unanswer questions.
Before we can move forward man...answer those 4 questions I place before u and stop asking unending questions. Simple...if u won't answer...we won't move on..simple

LordReed:
Obviously the 6th but that is talking about documentary evidence, the idea would have been around sometime before it was documented. Also circle is not sphere. A circle is a flat 2d object. In fact the idea at the time was that the earth was a flat disc with a dome covering.

Sorry...u seem like someone dat knows nothing and u sound like someone I av chat with in another moniker...but that aside...u said "MAYBE the idea was around at the time and no proof?...tell me the old Hebrew word for sphere not the modern Hebrew ooo and tell me anyone before Isaiah that say the earth is spherical or cycle...
If u can't answer these questions...just don't come to my mention...I am done wasting my time with u man...if u don't believe God or scriptures...no wahala...don't just like that the scriptures is false

OkCornel:
For the umpteenth time, go and research history and culture in the ancient Middle East. “Morning star” and “King of kings” are titles Kings of Babylon and Persia/Medes appropriate to themselves.

Back to the matter, you’ve butchered Isaiah 14 (addressed to the King of Babylon) and taken verse 12-15 out of context.

Read on to verse 16-19. Of verse 12-15 refers to Satan and his angels, please use your God given brain and sound mind to ask yourself if Satan is now “a man” in verse 16-17, or has a tomb in verse 18-19.

By the way, you carefully dodged the question on Matthew 24 v 21.

21 FOR THEN there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Has this great tribulation which will be unequalled in the history of mankind happened? Yes or No. If yes, when?

Dear OkCornel
U kept changing goal post to avoid my questions...I av answered all ur questions and I won't avoid answering Dem.

1)u asked whether Satan is a man?...was God a man wen Moses called him "a man of war" in Exodus 15:3? Read
The Lord is eminently a Man of War, as He musters the Forces together, and leads them as their General into the Field of Battle.

Wen Moses sang the song after their delivery and crossing the Reed sea...did God appear physically with his warriors to fight on a FIELD against the armies of Pharaoh...Think man think...
You said the devil is not a man...is God a man?...den this passage and many other that used man's attribute in reference to God must not be talking about God but someone else.

2) in verse 21 of Matthew 24 u quote...it says FOR THEN...don't u recorgnise that three questions were asked in verse one from his apostles?...he answered all the three in just one chapter...I won't be repeating myself...go and read my comment on how those three answers were sorted in the intertwined chapter.

3) You avoided my analysis of Isaiah 7&8 because u know u are hooked. You avoided all my questions by asking more questions just to avoid answer?
Now answer those questions
1) Explain the prophesy of Isaiah 7 and it's fulfilment
2)What biblical or historical proof shows that the time was PAUSED in Daniel 9
3)Who is the Anointed one?
4)Has the Anointed One died or we are still waiting for his death
5)All the first century father believe the prophecy were fulfilled in Daniel 9...can u point to ur evidence to proof that lie and tell us the meaning of 70 weeks and how u claim those 70 weeks will be fulfilled in the future and the timing must be accurate.
6) Lastly in Matthew 24... questions were asked on the destruction of the temple,the sign of the second coming and the end of the world. Jesus answered all these questions in just one chapter..please can u tell us which verses answered what question from verse 4-51.

I av answered all ur questions...stop dodging mine...please answer before asking further complicated questions that change our points from Daniel 9
Thank you

LordReed:
7th century BCE is not 4000years ago I hope you realise now. And I said about the time the sphericity was confirmed, Chapter 40 was not written in 7th century BCE.

You are just confusing urself...either u pick 7th century or 6th century...both are still earlier than 5th century that scientist accept fhat the world is spherical...or do u wanna argue that?
Oga...6th century BC and 5th century BC which one is earlier?

ANSWER oooo

LordReed:
LoLz! Isaish was not written 4000yrs ago it was written less than 3000yrs ago about the same time ancient scientists confirmed the sphericity of the Earth.

What changes are you talking about?

Bwahahahahaha! Scientists are not falling back to your ancient Hebrew tales, who is deceiving you with that?

LordReed...please wat do u gain from lying?
Isaiah lived in the 7thBC and the earliest document that claim the Earth is spherical was in the 5BC...which one is earlier...look at it below

OkCornel:
Please read Isaiah 14 in context. Don’t pick verse 12-15 and interpret out of context.

Who was Isaiah 14 addressed to?

Read verse 16-17 slowly;
16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: “Is this the man who shook the earthand made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?”

Question 1: Is your so called dragon AND his angels that were cast out of heaven suddenly “a man” in Isaiah 14 v 16-17? Context! Context!! Context!!!

Question 2: Read Isaiah 14 v 18-19. Does your dragon have a tomb?

Question 3: Again, explain to us how Revelation 12 is already fulfilled when it clearly states in Revelation 4 v 1 that the events revealed to John ARE THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN?

The way some of you interpret scriptures out of context is amazing. Isaiah 14 v 12-15 has no connection whatsoever with Revelation 12.

Find another scripture reference.

U kept saying contest...did d king of Babylon the morning star...u don't know wat context seems to be... judging by ur definition of context then Isaiah is not talking about Jesus in Isaiah 14:12-15
[12]“How you are fallen from heaven,
    O shining star, son of the morning!
You have been thrown down to the earth,
    you who destroyed the nations of the world.
[13]For you said to yourself,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars.
I will preside on the mountain of the gods
    far away in the north.
[14]I will climb to the highest heavens
    and be like the Most High.’
[15]Instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead,
    down to its lowest depths.

And Isaiah is not also talking about Jesus in Isaiah 7:14
[14]All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means ‘God is with us’).

Since chapter 8 shows that the immanuel was born. So it must be different from the immanuel of Matthew. Read Isaiah 8:4,8
[4]For before this child is old enough to say ‘Papa’ or ‘Mama,’ the king of Assyria will carry away both the abundance of Damascus and the riches of Samaria.”
[8]and sweep into Judah until it is chin deep. It will spread its wings, submerging your land from one end to the other, O Immanuel.

And
Matthew 1:23
[23]“Look! The virgin will conceive a child!
    She will give birth to a son,
and they will call him Immanuel,
    which means ‘God is with us.’”

But that context is not right...because the immanuel in Isaiah 7 is Jesus and same with Matthew 1:23.
Do you know why?
Isaiah 8:3 showed that the immanuel born in chapter 8 was not from a virgin. Read
Isaiah 8:3
[3]Then I slept with my wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to a son. And the lord said, “Call him Maher-shalal-hash-baz.
Isaiah 8:4
[4]For before this child is old enough to say ‘Papa’ or ‘Mama,’ the king of Assyria will carry away both the abundance of Damascus and the riches of Samaria.”

Bottom line
So,as u can see...even though the child was not born of a virgin and was named immanuel...he still went on to fulfil the prophecy of Isaiah 7:15-16
[15]By the time this child is old enough to choose what is right and reject what is wrong, he will be eating yogurt and honey.
[16]For before the child is that old, the lands of the two kings you fear so much will both be deserted.

In Isaiah 8:4
[4]For before this child is old enough to say ‘Papa’ or ‘Mama,’ the king of Assyria will carry away both the abundance of Damascus and the riches of Samaria.”

Jesus did not fulfil the prophesy but he fulfilled the virgin birth and also named Immanuel.

Here is my point...u must be able to know how prophecy are bn said and how it is bn fulfilled...some are meant for now and some for future both in the same prophecy.

I rest my case

OkCornel:
If Revelation 12 refers to a past event, please reconcile this against Revelation 4 v 1;

1.After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you WHAT MUST TAKE PLACE AFTER THIS.”

I still wonder how Revelation 4 and subsequent chapters relate to past events.

Enjoy your reservation

Dear OkCornel
Some of the Revelation is already fulfilled...let me ask u has Revelation 5 not bn fulfilled?...has Jesus not shed had blood for our Ransom or we will av to wait till the future?
In Revelation 12:8-9
[8]And the dragon lost the battle, and he and his angels were forced out of heaven.
[9]This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.

Was that passage not fulfilled and Isaiah retrated it in Isaiah 14:12-15
[12]“How you are fallen from heaven,
    O shining star, son of the morning!
You have been thrown down to the earth,
    you who destroyed the nations of the world.
[13]For you said to yourself,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars.
I will preside on the mountain of the gods
    far away in the north.
[14]I will climb to the highest heavens
    and be like the Most High.’
[15]Instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead,
    down to its lowest depths.

Or was Isaiah predicting the future and he used past tense "u av bn thrown down to earth"? vs 12.

OkCornel do u even compare scriptures?
Like I said earlier...I will not be dragged into Revelation

OkCornel:
So let’s get this straight.

1. The woman in that chapter has already spent 1,260 days in the wilderness according to you (Revelation 12 v 6)

2. The dragon has already waged war against the other offsprings of the woman according to you (Revelation 12 v 17)

Wonderful…

Dear OkCornel
Like I said...I don't want to be dragged into Revelation 12...from Daniel 9...
The woman,the dragon,the flood,the wilderness and the offsprings have their meaning...but Revelation is different thing on it own...too complicated and cumbersome...
Let's just leave it at that please... I don't like talking on Revelation for reasons best known to me...
Thank you for respecting my reservation

OkCornel:
When did Revelation 12 v 7-8 happen? Are you implying Revelation 12 v 5-6 & 13-17 has also happened?

Context is key o, bros.

Yes it has...all of Revelation 12 has bn fulfilled...
Sir...i can't be going into details cos Revelation is wide and it not something that can just be said without fact...I won't like to go into it but the answer is YES...it's bn fulfilled...
If u tink it hasn't...tell me how it is going to and I will tell how it is...I hope I can talk than type...it's stressful typing

OkCornel:
And just another food for thought. If the abomination of desolation has already happened according to you, are you also telling us the great tribulation has also happened?

Read Matthew 24 v 15-21 slowly, and in context. Pay special attention to the parts bolded in red in verse 21.

Matthew 24 v 15-21
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house.
18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.
19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!
20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath
21 FOR THEN there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

Are you telling us this great distress happened in 70 AD and would never be equalled again? Lmao, the persecution of the Jews in 70 AD pales in contrast to the Hitler’s holocaust.

The Jewish temple will be rebuilt, daily sacrifices will be restored, and the lawless one will defile it later on (2 Thessalonians 2 v 1-4 & Revelation 11 v 1-2 & Daniel 9 v 27). The desolation of the temple will kick off Jacob’s trouble which is a part of the great tribulation.

If you also claim Revelation 11 has happened, please who were the two witnesses? Don’t give me gymnastics o, because the scripture was specific on their abilities and how they’ll be killed and eventually resurrected…and what will happen shortly after their resurrection.

Patiently awaiting a well thought out response.

Like I told u...u need to know how to read scriptures...for instance if u read the prophesy of Isaiah in Isaiah 14. Note...from verses 1-11 he was prophesying to the king of Babylon but from verses 12-15 he highlighted the fall of Lucifer the Satan and from 16-23 he went back to the prophecy on the Babylonian king. In Isaiah 7...verse 13-14 slot in the prophecy of Christ borth from a virgin then went back to his previous line from verse 15 downwards also in Isaiah 9. These are examples of how to read the scriptures and prophesies.
Back to the point if u read Matthew 24 very well Jesus even made a statement that "this generation will not pass away until these things are fulfilled"-vs 34...so, are u saying that the tribulations has already occurred in that generation or the second coming had already taken place in that generation? NO...in Matthew 24...Jesus was prophesying two things...the fall of Jerusalem and the end of the world...one happened before the end of the generation like Jesus predicted(the fall of Jerusalem) but the great tribulations was for a time for the future(whether it has started it not is another discussion on it own).
The same tin with Revelation 11...a part has bn fulfilled and the other part is for the future and that other part is wat Paul mention in 2 Thessalonians which was written during the period when the sige was going on... remember Paul had to beg them for relief to the saints in Jerusalem. And not verse 7
2 Thessalonians 2:3,6-7
[3]Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.
[6]And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes.
[7]For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.

HE IS ALREADY AT WORK SECRETLY.

If u read the letters of Paul very well...he do talked as though the time in now now soon soon for the second coming because of that sign but one for fulfilled...the other will at an appointed time.
Thank u

OkCornel:
Read your response slowly.

Which ruler has confirmed a covenant with many for 7 years?

How exactly does A WAR that lasted 7 years between 66-73 CE automatically translate to A COVENANT WITH MANY (note the word here is many, not God’s holy people) for 7 years?

Help us make sense of this.

And if the abomination of desolation is already fulfilled, which outer court of the temple that’ll be trampled for 42 months (3.5 years) was John referring to in Revelation 11 which was written over 2 decades after the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 AD?

To ur first question...ur version used convenant,some other version use "treaty" which means an agreement...from the post I posted...before the start of the war...a treat was made between Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai( who represented God's holy people) and Vespasia(Titus father) for two tinz...to allow Dem build a school like a synagogue that will make the Jews continue their Judaism without the Temple...because they av admitted that the temple will be destroyed when they invade...also in the treaty...they pigrims were allowed into Jerusalem by the Romans but unfortunately they were not allowed to go back to their lands wen the war suddenly began which truncated the treaty,wen Vespasia left to claim the throne of the emperor...his son Titus invaded the land in 70CE(three and a half years from 66CE) and the war finished in 73/74CE to complete the seven years...it's in history...u can check it out ..also check out the write-ups of the Father's of faith in the Apostles era (first century) and they all confirm the fulfilment.And the funniest tin is that the treaty that permitted them to do that made Judaism to survive till today...that's why Jews still practice their religion even without the temple. Check Rabbinic Judaism.

To ur second question
I told you in Revelation,there are also backdated incidents that were also revealed like I started...for instance in Revelation 12 we were told about the war in heaven Revelation 12:7-8
[7]Then there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels.
[8]And the dragon lost the battle, and he and his angels were forced out of heaven.

This war had bn fought years ago but it was captured in the Revelation or do u want to say the devil is still in heaven?

Back to urquestion...like I said...the desolation of Judea and Jerusalem lasted for 3 and half years (70CE - 73/74 CE)...and then they left after the war...so it lasted for that time. Go read on the history of the war and the statement of Clement and Tertulia on that (rhese are forefathers of prestige who saw those who say the apostlee and the incidents...that's why Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-16
[15]“The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention!)
[16]“Then those in Judea must flee to the hills.

I hope av answered ur question?

LordReed:
LoLz! That passage was most likely written after men had already determined that the Earth isn't flat. Also the word used there is circle not sphere or are you telling me those people didn't have a separate word for sphere?

BTW I was not referring to the OT since the topic of discussion is the presumed return of Jesus which is in the NT. Most of the people captured in the NT are not what you call educated people, even Jesus himself did not go to school.

Dear LordReed
I laugh...u av data na...when did scientist admit that the Earth is not flat? And compare it to 4000 yrs old Isaiah statement date. Simple.
You talk about education? Were it not those who were educated that keep changing their theories till date? Ask ursef "how many changes of theories on the number of planet we av since 100 years ago till now.."? And their theory of evolution has changed from time to time...so called educated.
And this people u call uneducated av made claims over thousands of years ago...it remains unchanged and even scientists are falling back on those fact to confirm their hypothesis.
Thank u LordReed

OkCornel:
I’ll answer your question in details, but there’s something in Daniel’s prophecy I’d like you to ponder on in your analysis of the timeline.

Daniel 9 v 27;

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him

Titus does not fit into the above description, as I’m not aware of any covenant he had with many for 7 years.

This actually refers to the dragon and one of the two beasts mentioned in the book of Revelation.

Read Revelation 11 v 1-2 closely;

1. I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.

2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

Look closely at the bolded part in verse 2. 42 months is 3.5 years. This explains what happens after “the middle of the seven” when the covenant with many is broken.

The abomination of desolation (defilement, not destruction) of the rebuilt temple is yet to happen.

Bear in mind, John foresaw the apocalypse over 20 years after the temple was destroyed by General Titus.


With the death of the anointed one, the calendar is paused. The final seven will kick off when the “covenant with many” is put in place by the lawless one.

Dear OkCornel
I laugh...paused? No biblical evidence of that...
Now to ur question and ur analysis...and I am going to be drop images of references from reliable history link of Wikipedia.
1) In my earlier comment,I never said Titus was the ruler I said the prophesy was fulfilled wan Titus invaded Jerusalem,the ruler is not individual but the rulership of Rome which rulership came to a destructive end in the 7th century to fulfil the last part of that verse.
That bn said: Daniel in vs.27 said one seven that is 7years and the Jewish Roman war lasted for 7 exact year(66-73 CE)
2) that same passage said he made a "treaty"(ur version said convenant...ok). The question is wat was the treaty? Before the war,the Judean chased the Romans aways from their land even king Herod Antipas was still alive and also chased away because he was a protege of the Romans. So for that period (under emperor Nero) Titus was not the emperor but his father (who later became an emperor) was the leader of the war but due to the death of Nero,his father had to go become emperor and Titus became the leading general of the army. Now let me state the treaty that now last almost forever. At the start of the siege(before the war), a Rabbi and his eminent group approach the general to build a school that now generates to today surviving Rabbinic Judaism,also in this treaty,pigrims who visit Jerusalem for worship we're along free entry by the Roman armies but in 70 CE (3yrs and 7months which was exactly half of that 7 years of the war) the Romans invaded Jerusalem all of a sudden and in 73/74 CE(another 3 and half to make a complete 7 years) the whole Judeans were overrun except the hilly side and Jesus predicted this in Matthew 24:15-20
[15]“The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention!)
[16]“Then those in Judea must flee to the hills.
[17]A person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack.
[18]A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat.
[19]How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days.
[20]And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Jesus cannot be talking above the Ressurrection of the saint because it normally wouldn't av a negative impact on pregnant women or people in their how...but this talking about the invasion.
Lastly,all the first century believers and father's from Clement to Tertulia who saw those who saw the Apostles physically. ALL I REPEAT ALL of them maintain that the book of Daniel 9 was fulfilled by Christ and the invasion. Come to think of it...in the first 15 verses wat was Daniel praying for? It was for the restoration of the desolation of Jerusalem and Gabriel came to inform him wat will lead to the rebuilding and possible destruction of the Temple again.
Let's I forgot...John's Revelation was a detailed chronicle of wat had happened in the past,what Is happening already and wat will happen in the future. So,please wen u read Revelation be certain to follow up the chronicle. For instance Revelation 4,5,6,12 has been fulfilled before the Revelation. Revelation 1,2,3 were happening at the time. And others were projection of the future. But so chapters are intertwine of both the past, present and future all in the same chapter. Revelation is so deep.
Below are referencesbut please wen u reply me...use the scriptures to back ur claim that the time was PAUSED...and please use history to debunk my above analysis.
Thank u

LordReed:
Yes, quite plainly I am telling you that Jesus will not come. And I am telling you that you are limiting yourself by what 1st century CE peasants knew of the world or the universe.

Dear LordReed
I hope I understand u now...and I don't av a problem with u...
But note...it was one of these (peasants as u called them) people that made one of the earliest Revelation that the world is not flat but round(since the word spherical does not exist at the time in the language) as far as over 4000 years ago. READ Isaiah 40:22
[22]God sits above the CIRCLE of the EARTH.
    The people below seem like grasshoppers to him!
He spreads out the heavens like a curtain
    and makes his tent from them.

THANK YOU REED

judedwriter:
Nobody o...

Just don't be around when this man takes world power!

Dear judedwriter
What if Obama God forbids dies tomorrow...wat other name will people mention again...I av heard pope John Paul,I av heard pope John Benedict,I av even heard Trump and now Obama...
You people shud please stick to the scriptures please

MaxInDHouse:
You just like telling useless stories!

JWs don't write BIBLE on the cover of their translation, resurrection has a totally different meaning which is rising again from the dead, only those born of spirit will go and meet Jesus in heaven not all believers, and they're not going bodily but as spirit beings which means nobody will see them because they will die first before they can be transformed!

So that word RAPTURE has no place in God's word!

Dear MaxinDHouse
Please who teaches u all this concocted (to be polite) statement without facts and scriptural references? You did even quote a scripture to back ur three ambiguous statement? You are wiser than this na.
Not all believers will meet Jesus?Pliss who will be left?
Can u explain
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
[16]For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died will rise from their graves.
[17]Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.

They will die first?
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
[51]But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
[52]It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.

Nobody will see them?
Matthew 24:30
[30]And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Again...u are wiser than being receptive of every single teaching without even cross confirming

MaxInDHouse:
The word Bible is not compulsory that's why the JWs never wrote "BIBLE" on their version of the scriptures. But when it comes to what the scriptures contains it shouldn't be what we can't find word for word in it.
For your information the word RAPTURE means different things and as for resurrection it's clearly pronounced in the scriptures as RESURRECTION not RAPTURE. It simply means "standing up" because it only applies to the dead and not the living!
So if you have some dogmatic teachings i'm not opposed to it after all that's what most religions do but insisting that it has to do with the word of God is totally unacceptable.
Resurrection is not RAPTURE please get that straight!

Dear MaxinDHouse
I wonder why people look for trouble where there is none.
In ur first question that u asked and I quote"where is the word Rapture in ur Bible"?
U ursef used the word Bible,but now u say JW never used Bible and I av also met with ur people(great people) in our discussion saying please open ur "Bible" to...
My Point.
No Christian(me) will tell u that there is the word Rapture in the scriptures...just like the word "Pulpit" for Podium and many more words like dat. Like I said, as long as the interpretation of Rapture doesn't in any way substitute the meaning of Ressurrection of the dead and the living then to me it's just synonyms. But if it in any way substitute the meaning of the Ressurrection of the living and the dead then there is a problem. That's why I said to u...if u av had people preaching the rapture in a wrong way...den u can challenge them just like some people including JW has thought the second coming wrongly for years until they in the 20th century 1976 specifically decided to jettison the prediction and great pyramid fallacy and they admit that "things(knowledge) gets clearer and clearer as time goes on". I am not going to castigate u for that Charles Russell's and his early predecessors for those changes of time from 1914 to 1965...and don't think anyone who uses the word Rapture believes it as thought by John Nelson Darby in the 1830...
As against Darby's teaching,I do not believe the Ressurrection of the living and the dead(Rapture) is at different time from the second coming...I believe the second coming and the Ressurrection is at the same time.
2 Thessalonians 2:1
[1]Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him.

It is wen he is coming that we(living and dead) will be gathered to meet him

LordReed:
You are comparing their knowledge of the world then with our knowledge of the world now, that is a bad idea because they did not think the world is as big as we now know it to be. It is evident in the way they wrote. They said the Roman Emperor commanded "all the world" to be registered in a census. Obvious if you were living in those times the Roman Empire might have seemed like "all the world" but it most definitely was not, it wasn't even up to a quarter of the world. Plus the world population then was a mere fraction of what it is now so it was quite conceivable for "all the world" to hear of the gospel. My point is they were working from the limits of their knowledge and you here now with better information are limiting yourself to their ignorance and it is very comedic. It would be like a modern man going to look for stones to make a tire.

Secondly, you guys make the bible sound like bipolar nonsense when you reinterpret places that do not fit your narrative just so it can. Are you going to deny that it was written “Surely I am coming quickly.”? No you are not but instead of coming to terms with what that means now that that cannot be fulfilled, you reinterpret it to fit whatever narrative you like. As if words no longer have the meaning we generally use them for and you can just willy nilly ascribe any meaning to a word. That makes the Bible look like a bipolar clown show.

Dear LordReed
I still do not understand wat u criticising me for...is it that ur claiming Christ has already come? Or Christ will not come?
Cos I just told u that even with our progress in preaching the gospel,with all technology and wat av you...no one can still boldly say we av covered the whole nook and cranny of the world with the gospel even though we av made tremendous progress but there are still work to be done. But Christ said the work of preaching to those unreached has to be done first before he comes...but nobody can know wen the message gets to the very last person and that is why we are to be prepared also.

So, LordReed,do u av any issue with dis analysis of mine and maybe u can reexplain any part of the scriptures u think in ur wisdom dat I av misinterpreted,let me hear ur own view and let's discuss.
But like I said,if u do not believe in the scriptures at all...I will respect ur opinion.

OkCornel:
The Temple will be rebuilt.

Remember John witnessed foresaw the apocalypse in 95AD thereabouts (over 20 years after the Temple was destroyed) on the island of Patmos which led him to write the book of Revelation.

In Revelation 11 v 1-2, he saw the Temple.

Follow the events in Israel closely, almost everything is in place for the temple to be rebuilt and daily sacrifices restored.

Cross check Revelation 11 v 1-2 with 2 Thessalonians 2 v 1-4.

Dear OkCornel
Sir,there is a misconception in ur analysis...Daniel talked of 70 weeks and a week is seven days. Sir,each day represent a years. Let's do the Maths and let me tell u how it was fulfilled.
70×7=490
So from the above the prophecy was for 490 years.
Now another question is "is the 490 years from the day Daniel saw the prophecy?
Answer NO. Then from when? Let's read the passage again den understand;
Daniel 9:24-26
[24]“A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
[25]Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times.
[26]“After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.

1) according to verse 24; the people(Israel) were given a strict warning to end their rebellion to God in 490years(70x7) for the old convenant to be sustained so as for the temple(holy place) to still be a place of everlasting righteousness.
2) According to verse 25: they were to pay good attention to the timing, that the seventy weeks(490years) will pass(that is start counting) when there is a command to rebuild Jerusalem till wen the Anointed One(Christ) will come...which will Mark the end of the 490years. How was this fulfilled? From the time Nehemiah when the desolation of the Babylonians were over and they started building the Temple and Wall of Jerusalem(despite the perilous time they faced from Sambalat and Tobiah) to the Time Mary and Joseph brought Jesus to Simeon the priest in the Temple was exactly 490 years. So,the 70 weeks was fulfilled. Nehemiah 2:17
[17]But now I said to them, “You know very well what trouble we are in. Jerusalem lies in ruins, and its gates have been destroyed by fire. Let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem and end this disgrace!”

And another version which may also be true is that after the rebuilding of the temple (30+years from wen they started) and Eztra the priest read the law for the first time in the Temple to the time Christ(Anointed One) died on the Cross was also a space of 490 years. So,any of the two calculation still points to Jesus as the Anointed One. Nehemiah 8:1
[1]all the people assembled with a unified purpose at the square just inside the Water Gate. They asked Ezra the scribe to bring out the Book of the Law of Moses, which the lord had given for Israel to obey.


3) Now verse 26 make us know that the Anointed One (Christ) will be killed and those who killed him would tink they av cut short the plan and the Anointed One has achieve nothing but unknown to them...his death has put an end to the Holiness of the Temple and now His(Anointed One) is now the Temple that is acceptable in the new covenant. This is why in the prophecy it said after the death of the Anointed One a ruler will come and destroy the Temple. Before Jesus died he said to his disciples in Matthew 24:1-2
[1]As Jesus was leaving the Temple grounds, his disciples pointed out to him the various Temple buildings.
[2]But he responded, “Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!”

General Titus in 70AD fulfilled this and historians showed us that the temple was destroyed to the very foundation and no stone was found placed in the other.

Now back to ur point...the temple in Revelation 11 and 2 Thessalonians will be built for daily sacrifices but the Lord would not be glorified in that temple for he no longer lives in a house built with hands. He will send two messangers to preach Christ to them and to turn Dem from the daily sacrifices...they will be killed after 3and half years for the spirit of Antichrist has taken over.

So,don't mix it up or let me ask u straight...
1)Who is the Anointed One that will be killed?
2)Has the Anointed One been killed or will still be killed in future?
3) According to Daniel's vision,which one comes first, second and third. The Anointed One coming and death,the rebuilding of the temple and the destruction of the temple?

Please answer these three questions in ur reply...I av answered them above...but answer urs