₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
Good! Since you know and have admitted that God is The Holy Spirit, what then did Mathew 7:17-18 teach?

Answer:" A Mango can never give bitter kola!"

Therefore, The Holy, must give The Holy! That is The Law!

My case is rested!

Matthew 7:17-18
[17]A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[18]A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.

Now I realize the little glitches u av in Bible interpretation...u don't know which one comes first...
Ohhh...u think a holy man house the holy spirit...instead it should be...
The Holy spirit in man makes man holy...

That the little misinterpretation that affected ur interpretation...u don't know wat does wat first.

Dtruthspeaker:
3 or 4 years back he even moved from being slightly pro-God to full blown Anti-God and supported all the works of atheists, with many asking him are you an atheist or something.

Then when he saw God overcoming their arguments he then transformed to the rubbish we see today.

He is definitely still suffering from the mental imbalance he once confessed that he was afflicted with.

That is the story of kobojunkie over the period of time I have seen.

It is our duty and Joy to keep teaching and praying for them...no soul must be lost...if Paul can be saved...him and many more others will come to the light of the truth...WE DONT GIVE UP

Mikee19:
1) I had seen you say Jesus was created before. This is a misunderstanding of scripture

2) Of course the Father was greater than Jesus when he was a man! That's a given! You can see why that can be true

3) You said Jesus will return to live IN God. But when he does, who is greater than who, when God is only ONE BEING since Jesus now lives in him AS A SINGLE BEING?! It's like saying I'm greater than my blood inside me. This make no sense at all whatsoever anymore for one who's living INSIDE God as a single being with him

4) That version obscures 1 Cor 15 that you quoted saying Jesus will "put himself under God's authority" as tho he's not one God with the Father

if you just make these adjustments, you'll see where you've been lacking

Dear Mikee19
What I told u about the Trinity is the truth about the Trinity...it is real but it had not been taught the way it should...every point I ever make on any topic are Yeah and Amen cos I don't think...I let the Bible still...
You listed four(4) things up there...let me speaking on them one after the other...not me but the Bible.
There were two separation (one for creation and one for Salvation)

1) You said I said "Jesus was created"
Not me...but the Bible said so...now Read...and take note of the words put in capital...
Firstborn means two things in Greek (a) to be born first in orderly manner (b) to be a prototype of an experiment.
Proverbs 8:22
[22]“The lord FORMED me from the beginning,
    before he created anything else.

You can see it not me...the Word Form means Made or Created. Someone must av done the FORMING right and that person is the Father.

Proverbs 8:24-25
[24]I was BORN before the oceans were created,
    before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
[25]Before the mountains were formed,
    before the hills, I was BORN—

The word Born means to be brought forth,Produced. Someone was born...so,someone must av done the giving birth right?...we believe it's the Father.

You can see it's not me...it is the Person Himself that was saying of Himself..."I was FORMED...I was BORN"...Not me...

2) You said the Father is greater than Jesus wen he was a man alone...
Okay let me show something...
Mark 14:62
[62]Jesus said, “i am. And you will see the Son of Man seated in the place of power at God’s right hand and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 16:19
[19]When the Lord Jesus had finished talking with them, he was taken up into heaven and sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand.

Jesus is talking about his second coming here...he was no longer a man...but still he earn a place with God that Put everything else under him... except the Father himself as proven in 1 Corinthians 15:27
[27]For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)
You can see even Paul stated it clear that someone gave someone authority. Similar to Pharaoh and Joseph in Genesis 41:40
[40]You will be in charge of my court, and all my people will take orders from you. Only I, sitting on my throne, will have a rank higher than yours.”

3) You have a point in ur third assertion...but I stated it clearer...u used the analogy of man and his blood...that analogy does not apply to God and Christ...the best analogy that fits will be a man and his word since Christ is the Word of God...now let me explain the next verse I did not quote to u...I only quoted verse 27...now read verse 28 urself...
1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

You can see...the relationship between God and His Word...it is a known fact that Man has control over his own word. Since Christ has fulfilled his assignment..."he put himself under God authority"
But u raised a crucial point...since Christ return to being God's word and living inside him...can a man be separated or differentiated from his word?
Now Read Philippians 2:6
[6]Though he was God,
    he did not think of equality with God
    as something to cling to.

In that other thread I explained why "WAS" was used in both Philippians 2:6 and John 1:1...but the summary is...when the Salvation assignment is fulfilled...the Son and the Spirit will return to the Father and ALL will be ONE Father who is the One and Only True God.
"...God will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere" vs 28b.

4) Quote me any version or versions that suite u and I will show u they av the same interpretation...the original meaning are unchanged.

That's the Truth about the True interpretation of The Trinity.

Dtruthspeaker:
..

Which Spirit does God have? Is it an Unholy one?

It is just simple common sense!

God is the Holy spirit...is anyone contesting that? NO

But the breath breathe into man was what we are talking about here that will return back to God after death...this are two different things like I av quoted for u
Romans 8:16
[16]For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

MaxInDHouse:
I know that you appreciate knowledge but you don't feel like being part of it rather you want to stick to falsehood yet claiming you're part of the truth.

You're my neighbour for sure and it's under must that i love you as i love myself {Mark 12:31} most of you don't know what that really mean well it simply means i should do whatever i will do to you as i would myself. So at times i do deprive myself some things just as Jesus also do deprive himself of some things. Matthew 4:3-4
But as for my brother i must love him exactly the same way Jesus loves me {John 13:34-35} which means i must be prepared to surrender my life if the need be for my brother in the faith! John 15:12-13

So i love you as my neighbour just as i would everyone around me but not the same way i love my brothers in the truth! Galatians 6:10

Smile...

Mikee19:
On the other hand immaculatesense, I'm quite surprised at your understanding of matters such as these (receiving the Holy Spirit) for one who doesn't quite see the divinity of Jesus. Well i guess that's due to it not being taught very properly, as well as mis-teachings of the Jws... Good stuff you've put here

Are u taking about me not believing in the divinity of Jesus?...
Are u kidding me...I believe 100%
The only thing that i kept saying is what Christ says which is that "the Father is greater than the Son"...so I believe that there is Hierarchy in the Godhead which is that the Father is the One True God and the greatest of all.
I have explained dis times and times again. That's why some people sometimes thing I am JW but no...I am Pentecostal but I don't support the Trinity misinterpretation...u know am not subjective no matter the topic
Like I said Trinity was trimmed from Tri+unity=Trinity
Tri= three
Unity=Unity in purpose or aim

So,the Father and the Son and the Spirit (three) are United in Purpose.
But that doesn't take the fact that the Father is greater than the Son and controls the spirit...
Now read these two verses
John 14:28
[28]Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again. If you really loved me, you would be happy that I am going to the Father, who is greater than I am.

John 14:26
[26]But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

You can see that it is the Father giving direction and authority. And when the mission is fulfilled...the son will hand everything over to the Father and return to live IN the Father as the word(his initial position and glory)

1 Corinthians 15:28
[28]Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

You can read clearly that the son will put himself UNDER the authority of the Father.

The only thing I against the JW for claiming that Jesus is Angel Michael and I av prove the fault of that teaching over and over again.

This is the True Teaching and Worthy Saying
Thank u

Dtruthspeaker:
See, 2 CHANGES OF POST! The issue was before the Holy Spirit Come and not when the Holy Spirit Comes.

2) The issue was you wanted me to prove that those who received The Holy Spirit were holy hence your quest in the Samaria event Which I showed you, so case closed.

There is no room to bring in your own ideas or thinkings, for that is not what the case is about.



Without going into fresh argument I'll just say this, you forget Genesis 2:7 and John 1:3,4 and 9 and all the scriptures which inform us that without Him, WE WOULD NOT BE ALIVE NOR LIVING.

SO, WE ALREADY HAVE HIS SPIRIT! No argument here.

Dear Dtruthspeaker
Lol...Genesis 2:7 and John 1:3,4 and 9 u quoted was never talking about the holy spirit. Genesis 2:7
[7]Then the lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nostrils, and the man became a living person.

Genesis 2:7 was talking about the spirit of man not the holy spirit (only a believer has the holy spirit not man generally)

Have u ever read Romans 8:16
[16]For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.

You see?
1) His Spirit (holy spirit)
2) Our spirit (conscience/consciousness/life/breath that departs from man after death)

Problem with people is that u people do not research the Bible through and through before passing comment or interpreting a verse of the scriptures...don't get me wrong... nobody is all knowing but u need to be sure before passing a comment cos people could be slightly and dangerously misled...for instance...u can never see me comment on Polygamy cos I have not finished reading through and through the scriptures to compare and contrast objectively and know wat is wat...so for now I would rather read than comment.

Go and keep learning and avoid commenting on issues u don't know every scriptures that talks about it. Please humbly take this as an advice and not insult.
Thank you

Mikee19:
Oooh is kobojunkie male or female? Have I been addressing wrongly? Anyways I'll now show the foolishness of this. This exactly is what I was trying to show to everyone...

He/she is quite right to believe the gospels. But foolish to not believe them completely, for the very words of Jesus himself plainly declared that he COULD NOT finish teaching the disciples all he had to teach them, not because he Jesus Christ did not have the ability to do so in himself, but because they DID NOT have the capacity to receive it all since they couldn't understand it. I mean the same Jesus COULD NOT perform miracles where ppl didn't receive him! Did that make him any less powerful? Why would the fact that the disciples could not understand the "much more" he had to tell them make him less so, so that he had to teach or forfeit all else he had to teach them?

This was the question he couldn't answer to, even tho it is self-evident from the very words of Jesus himself! He simply doesn't believe Jesus at all, or else he'll have believe what Jesus said "I have be so much more to tell you that I cannot tell you now because you won't understand them. But i will tell you through the Holy Spirit". I mean how much clearer can that get! Anyone who really believes Jesus will look for that "much more" that Jesus said he would tell them later by his Spirit in the words of the apostles. Very foolish not to believe Jesus himself. This is why he had problems with answering a very simple question...

On the other hand he also recognizes that this must be what is meant by the words of Jesus, for he goes on to acknowledge that THERE WERE INDEED FURTHER REVELATIONS GIVEN which he acknowledged are contained in the book of Revelations. This is really a contradiction tho. If Jesus did finish all of he had to say on earth, then there's no way he could come back again to tell them something further in the book of Revelations! It's either he finished or he didn't. He recognizes that he had to come back to tell them further things, but decides to "cherry pick" that it must only be one book and nothing else, having no other yardstick to judge this but "this is the book I feel doesn't contradict the gospels, but i certainly feel that the epistles contradict", because Revelations is as much a letter by the apostle John as Galatians is by Paul. He only chooses to believe John when he details that Jesus sent his Angel to show him those things and he didn't dream them himself (because let's face, can he not have? What's the yardstick to determine he wasn't lying, but Paul was? Nothing really, except "I feel so, so it must be true!)

NKJV Rev 22:6,8-10: "⁶ Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place. … ⁸ Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. ⁹ Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” ¹⁰ And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand."

Paul said something similar, yet with no reason at all (except "i feel so, so this MUST be true!", he feels he's lying


NKJV Ga 1:11-12,16-17; 2:6: "¹¹ But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. ¹² For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. … ¹⁶ to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, ¹⁷ nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. … But from those who seemed to be something— whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man— for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me."

So believe John but disbelieve Paul. John tells the truth but Paul lies. Quite foolish really. No logic to it...

On the one hand he declares that nobody can add to what Jesus said on earth, but then goes on to acknowledge that Jesus himself did so in the book of Revelations, only to deny it wasn't him who did so in the other epistles. Indeed he's right in saying nobody can add a thing to that Jesus himself teaches. He did so on earth, plainly told them he wasn't done, then continued to do so through his Spirit! This is why he cannot answer the question "was Jesus done" when Jesus very plainly said "I still have MANY THINGS to tell you..." = I am not done yet!

Indeed the reason Jesus could not teach them all he would have wanted to teach them was because these were men yet unsaved, without the Spirit who could have opened up their capacity to receive spiritual truths. It was not a limitation of Jesus, but of the disciples. Yet this is where he chooses to camp, in the realm of the unsaved without the Spirit hence without capacity to receive much spiritual truth, rather than come over to the epistles where they were now saved and with the Spirit and can now receive much more, hence taught much more, the "much more" Jesus had to teach them that they didn't have capacity to receive at the time due to their limitation (not Jesus')!

Foolishness is when you don't realize that Jesus is powerful; he can use MANY MEANS to teach, not only in person! He said he'll use his Spirit to continue. Why not take him for his words? Or rather why pick and choose where you'll believe he can use his Spirit to teach is only Revelations, but not powerful enough to do so enough to use whatever means he so desired to teach them in giving revelation by his Spirit but must do so in person... Delusion grandeur at it's peak!

You will NOT want to have anything remotely logical to do with a person as this. Avoid for your sanity

I read what u wrote...and u are correct...I just hope people reading on this forum(religion) can decipher or discern the Wheat from the Tares...

MaxInDHouse:
I have told you from the start that you are not my brother, you can't be my brother and you will never be my brother if you're not one of JWs.
So hold onto whatever you want to believe you and i aren't on the same page!

You are my Brother and I love you no matter where u belong JWs are great people and I love them all... including you

Mikee19:
On the other hand immaculatesense, I'm quite surprised at your understanding of matters such as these (receiving the Holy Spirit) for one who doesn't quite see the divinity of Jesus. Well i guess that's due to it not being taught very properly, as well as mis-teachings of the Jws... Good stuff you've put here

Dear Mikee19
Thank u so much for ur compliment...i believe to interpret the scriptures correctly...one has to be objective and unbiased to whether I am Catholic, Pentecostal, witnesses, Baptist, Orthodox,etc...all have their fault and a prone to changes as time passes...only the word of God does not change...it is Rigid.
Psalms 119:89
[89]Your eternal word, O  lord,
    stands firm in heaven. (NLT)

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you that if you want to learn then enroll but if you think you already have your own religion, no wahala.

Jesus' disciples were talking about someone who believes and teaches what he had Jesus teaching so he's already with them in the spirit!
But after the Holy Spirit has chosen the elders and Apostles in JERUSALEM all believers must report to the Apostles and elders in Jerusalem {Act 2:42} so that all disciples may have the same line of thought! 1Corinthians 1:10 compare John 17:20-23

That's why the names of those through whom everyone must learn about Jesus were inscribed in heaven! Revelations 21:14

If you're not connected to that source then you are not one of us!

No denomination can lay claim to the soirce or foundation...the foundation is solidly layed and every leader only builds on it...but ur impossible anyways...do u even wish anyone to perish...if I can av my way...even the most wicked person will enter the rest of God...but God is the decider...so,why will u even look for way to discredit instead of having a heart dat even find the slightest reason to justify people. Seems u preach to fulfil a commission...I preach to win souls and not to FULFIL a commission as priority (fulfilment is not my priority but to bring people to Christ with the slightest of opportunity not looking for slightest way to discredit people)
1 Corinthians 3:4-5,9-11
[4]When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world?
[5]After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us.
[9]For we are both God’s workers. And you are God’s field. You are God’s building.
[10]Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
[11]For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.

Dtruthspeaker:
And this is what is called CHANGE OF POST! The issue was you did not know that The Holy Spirit falls only on those qualified by God to receive it and that those persons on whom it is given to are people who we, men would have called holy except that I respect that it is exclusively within God's jurisdiction to do so and not mine. Therefore, I refrain from commenting further than this.

The issue is not about faith and what you think it is, hence CHANGE OF POST!

And the QUALIFICATIONS is Faith...simple...
When the holy Spirit come...the RESULT is Holiness.
You can't be acceptably holy without the holy spirit in you...how will u possibly do dat without the holy spirit?

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you see this is a crazy statement, "One must be holy there is time frame"?

Meanwhile time frame is not the issue and I have shown you the things God would uses to mark a person holy.

I am staying in my place in not doing God's Job of judging "this person is holy" which is the sin you want me to commit as you people easily do.

As you have seen I have pleaded the facts as you have even tested and now see, that those who received The Holy Spirit are those who we little men, would say that they are in a state that we would have called holy except that we respect the fact that it is God Who is the One Who hands down the judgement of Holiness, which is proven by the giving of His Holy Spirit as you yourself showed by stating Ephesians 1:132; Corinthians 1:22

So, this case is closed and you are just going round seeking a new way to re-argue as shown by the remainder of your comments most especially as I have shown you how it applied in Samaria as you requested and you do not have a valid objection.

So, you are raising New issues (your w
wrong opinion of good work traveling all the way back to Paul's conversion {and funny you say conversion, yet you still call him a murderer, as if being born again is not a conversion. I don't want to go into all that here.} for argument and re-argument, which is not a valid counter.

If you are interested in pursuing these matters, raise a fresh thread and quote me, I would meet you there.

But on this and on this issue, you really do not have a good opposition. You lost this one.



As long as you see that it took days, which you have just impliedly admitted, I am in order.



Not in issue at all!



Fresh Issue! I know what it means even if you do not. But as I said, New Issue, New thread!



New Issues! What does the bolded truly mean? I know what it means but from the way you argue, you still don't know and you would fall when I argue against you. But this is not the place and others have said everything you are going to say and they never stood against me. So new thread if you think you can validly stand and show that I am Wrong.



When the Bible has already clearly told us what he did not have! See, now you are cancelling what the Bible said and adding to it.

You don't know what you are talking about.

U are just (politely) something else...u seem confused...
I av explained to u wat bn right with God is from the scriptures which is Faith which Simon lacks.
I av shown ur dat the time people receivedthe holy spirit in the scriptures varies. The apostles for instance waited for over three years... Cornelius, immediately...Paul, immediately...the Samarians... PROBABLY some few days...
Some did not receive before they were ignorant...they haven't heard about the holy spirit...they believe in Jesus but u can't av faith in wat u av not heard about...wen they heard about the holy spirit...they had faith and dey received IMMEDIATELY...
Read Acts of the Apostles 19:1-2,5-7
[1]While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers.
[2]“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.“No,” they replied, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
[5]As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
[6]Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied.
[7]There were about twelve men in all.

Bottom line is...there is no biblical timeframe...only have Faith.

MaxInDHouse:
No matter how you run you can't hide away from the truth so stop deceiving yourself.

Whatever you hear from me only comes from Jehovah's Witnesses organization so if you're not ready to join us forget it, you're not on the same page with us! Luke 11:23; 2John 10-11

From ur words people can notice that u preach division and if ur not with us ur against us mentality...
I preach unity in the body if Christ..no matter ur race,colour, language,nation, denomination etc...as long as the banner is Christ...no matter who u are and wer ur from...u are my brother and we are one...
Luke 9:49-50
[49]John said to Jesus, “Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn’t in OUR GROUP.”
[50]But Jesus said, “Don’t stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you.”

If Jesus can do dat...who am I to segregate?

MaxInDHouse:
Who defined tithe, man or God?

When God declared that Israelites are robbing Him does it sound as if He's joking?

Ọmọ it's either you learn or stay on your lane.

The OP neither believe in God or the Bible so his mission is to make God's word sound stupid that's why i have to tell him that God's law is perfect and it will always be there.

Apostle Paul explained that when there is a change in priesthood there is also a necessity of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12

So we are still paying our tithes but rather than paying with material possessions we now pay with our time.

For your information, that's what Jesus meant when he said "store up treasures for yourself where thieves can't break in" {Matt 6:19-20} before anyone can pay tithes in the old covenant he/she must acquire material things out of which he must bring tenth of it to the temple, while he/she owns these things thieves can break in to rob him of his valuables because they also want those things, but in the new arrangement thieves don't value what Jesus is demanding as our high priest which is our time.

So among Jehovah's Witnesses the most valued members are those who spends more of their time in preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom because materially speaking they don't worth much but before the true God they worth more than Bill Gate or Elon Musk!

In your pentecostal churches those moneybags are most valued members yet you want to equate such a shrine of Mammon with God's organization.

No way!

It's either you submit to God's organization or keep to your lane!

Dear MaxinDHouse
You still available alot to learn on teaching and understanding...u are always not straight forward and conflicting...on wat u just put up now...I am 100% in support...but I don't know...wen u want to reply this my comment now...u will still write something that will conflict wat u put up there.
So,pls don't reply or reply without avin to talk much or at all again...wat u put up now is perfect...don't water it down again...

And I av always told u...maybe ur advertising for free Sha...this ur sectionalism mentality...u need to work on it ooo...u don't av to join the group called Jehovah's witnesses before u can be a child of God...it is never a prerequisite...Christ alone is...

MaxInDHouse:
We are on parallel lines that can never meet so you and i aren't on the same page it's either you humbly learn or stay on your lane!

Learn when ur saying nothing...u keep maneuvering. The question was simply...should we pay tithe(money or substance)?...my answer and analysis was clear as regards the law and it requirements to the Jew and the role of gentile Christians in keeping or not keeping the law.

But u MaxinDHouse has posted two different and conflicting views on the straight forward topic...ur neither here nor there and u want anyone to learn...come clean bro...it's a simple question

Dtruthspeaker:
I did not say so o. I said "Acts 10:2 clearly SHOWS THE TYPE OF LIFE CORNELIUS WAS ALREADY LIVING AND THE TYPE OF MAN HE WAS long before God Moved and gave him Holy Spirit.



Surely it is clear that God requires people "to do the good according to what He hath Commanded" and not the evil. Deuteronomy 6:18

And Acts 10:2 shows Cornelly ticking them. And we do not see him doing any wrong or evil thing.

That is my point!

I am not the judge of holiness but certainly doing wrongs and unrightness does not lead to holiness, that one I can say.



Verse 6 tells you "they gave heed" and verse 13 shows you good time had passed before God Again Moved, and made the apostles act in Verse 14 and 15.

And as you see, unholy Simon was cut off. And lo what was Peter's answer to him?
"thy heart is not right in the Sight of God" .Acts 8:21

Verse 22 shows that he was in wickedness and in iniquity.

So clearly, the others who got The Holy Spirit were guiltless.

Dear Dtruthspeaker
Your not being sincere...wat led to this discussion was wen u opine sat one must be holy before one can receive the holy spirit...but I like others told u that there is no time frame...it requires salvation and faith.
Firstly u talk about good works of Cornelius...yes but he needs salvation to be saved because a good house without a foundation is useless... Christ being the only foundation...any good works built on such foundation is filthy not holy...Read Isaiah 64:6a
[6]We are all infected and impure with sin.
    When we display our righteous deeds,
    they are nothing but filthy rags.

Can u see that Cornelius was not holy before salvation but after salvation...cos "Justification is by faith,not by good works" but works compliment faith...but good works means nothing without the foundation of faith.

Secondly,u talked about the Samarian people and Simon...now let me explain that passage to u...but first read on Saul/Paul's conversation in Acts of the Apostles 9:17
[17]So Ananias went and found Saul. He laid his hands on him and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road, has sent me so that you might regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

Can u see,Paul a murderer and a persecutor of the church received the Holy Spirit the same day he believed...let me retrate again... Salvation and Faith is the requirements for the Holy Spirit...once He comes, He parterns and shapens our lives in a way that means the "righteous requirement of the Lord". Read Romans 8:2,4
[2]And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.
[4]He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

Now back to Act 8 (Samarian crowd and Simon the magician)
The Bible did not tell us the number of days it took the Samarians to receive the holy spirit but the Bible said immediately Peter and John arrived... IMMEDIATELY (note the requirement that made the Church send Peter and John was that the Samarians BELIEVED and ACCEPT the gospel)
Acts of the Apostles 8:14-15
[14]When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted God’s message, they sent Peter and John there.
[15]As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit.

Now on Simon...
You said something very important but u don't understand wat it means...u said "the heart is not right in the sight of God".The question is wat does that statement means and wat does it mean to be right with God".
Read and learn sir...Read Romans 3:22
[22]We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

Now without reasonable argument,u can see with bn right with God means and wat Simon lacked

Simon did not receive the holy spirit because he did not have faith (this is important,there is a difference between to believe and to have faith)...that was why,when others were receiving the holy spirit,he was left out and he wanted to Lobby(pay) to buy the holy spirit. Remember the holy spirit knows the heart of every man.

Conclusion
All u have to do is to believe in the name of the Lord just and have faith that the Person of the Holy Spirit is for you and ur children (i.e generations to come). Read careful this most important and first teaching on the holy spirit by Peter. Read Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39
[38]Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[39]This promise is to you, to your children, and to those far away—all who have been called by the Lord our God.”

God bless u

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever makes your church demands what Jesus didn't demand it simply means the spirit they're worshiping there is not the God that send Jesus.
Most of you wish that God will accept all the different forms of worship you people are putting up in the name of Jesus but know today that it's not so you're worshiping demons pretending to be angels of light. 2Corinthians 11:14
Those leading in your churches knows this fact that's why they will never agree with you that paying money in form of tithes is wrong. Matthew 24:11

Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion where each of you can switch from one lane to another in the name of Jesus {Matthew 7:13-14} but that's not pure worship according to Jesus all of us must have the same line of thought! John 17:20-23

Jesus said Get out of Babylon the Great {Revelations 18:4} because it's the mother of all false religions claiming denominations in Christendom with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines!

U are confused man...why is ur teachings conflicting in itself...
But don't worry...I give up on u as regards dis issue...cos ur speaking from two sides of ur mouth...so confusing

Harshirama:
Wow. Thanks a lot. God bless you too sir

Amen...you are great sir

Dtruthspeaker:
Even these verses you provided clearly state what I am saying.

Then Acts 10:2 clearly shows the type of life Cornelius was already living and the type of man he was long before God Moved and gave him Holy Spirit.



I did not say a person becomes holy by themselves nevertheless, as The Lord hath Commanded, "Be ye holy" therefore, I know that a person can do those which are pleasing in the eyes of The Lord, like Cornelius, David before his errors, Joseph, Noah etc which is what I advocate.

Dear Dtruthspeaker
Like I asked again...av u being reading the scriptures at all?
You said Cornelius was already holy because he was a good man?...wen is bn a good man translate to Holiness that God requires...okay let me not fight u on that...
Let me ask u again
Were the whole crowd in Samaria also holy wen d holy spirit came upon dem at conversion? Carefully Read Acts of the Apostles 8:5-6,17
[5]Philip, for example, went to the city of Samaria and told the people there about the Messiah.
[6]Crowds listened intently to Philip because they were eager to hear his message and see the miraculous signs he did.
[17]Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Were they also Holy before they could receive the holy spirit?..all of them?

MaxInDHouse:
Your problem!
It's either you believe (trust) in the truth or stay with falsehood. If those taking the lead in your place of worship demands for tithes in form of money and you refuse to pay then you are against the Spirit being worshiped in that place and your life is in danger.
Spirits don't joke with the instructions given to their adherents it's either you comply or leave that premises for your own safety!

Dear MaxinDHouse
Another heresy here...
Does another spirit leads the Church except Christ own spirit?
Can Christ spirit subject himself to denominationalism?
In danger? Lol...so,if a church u attend preaches heresy and things that negate God's word and interpretation...should we rather follow them blindly or stay true to God's word because we don't want to be in danger?

Reason it within urself "wether it is right to obey men or God"

Lol...ur asking me to pay tithe because church demand for it and for fear of danger?...ur something else...and u negate scriptures cos even tithes are agricultural produce (crops and animals) alone...levites never collected money...not even once in the scriptures and Judaism only practice Agricultural tithe anyways...
But u don't learn it read the scriptures yourself...na Dem say Dem say...our elders talk say...it was agreed amongst out brothers say...
So,I don't blame you

MaxInDHouse:
Whenever God demands anything from man He (God) doesn't come down in person to receive it it's God's representative either man like you or angel that will see to it that you did what God requires.

So either sacrifice, praise, offering or tithe which are all part of our worship to God has never been done where God Himself will come down to collect anything from us.

The tithe was part of our worship as you can see that God actually demanded in that place but when the old covenant ended and a new one was established the mode of payment changed {Hebrews 7:11-12} we are no longer required to take anything to our place of worship in the name of tithes rather we must pay with our time, don't forget that time is money so each disciple must pay by spending time in the preaching and teaching campaign for God's Kingdom and we must report what we did to Christ {Mark 6:30} or his brothers (the born again Christians) Act 16:4

This is why you're seeing Jehovah's Witnesses always in the field preaching and teaching as we pay our tithes to our God through the commandment we received from His only begotten Son Jesus Christ! Matthew 28:18-20

Thanks for your time!

Dear MaxinDHouse
Now I agree with u on this... compare this with ur write-up which I quoted...it's different...
On this one u put up here...I agree and ur 100% correct...

Praise God

MaxInDHouse:
If you want to learn then enroll i'm not ready for your give and take nonsense.
Farewell!

Okay sir

Dtruthspeaker:
Only when you are no longer Satan's child.

Holy and unholy things do not mix. That is The Law!

And speaking Truths as you have just done is a step in the right direction.

So, you are not yet saved, you just maybe applied to be saved.

Dear Dtruthspeaker
I believe u av only considered Act 2 without considering Act 10 amongst others...Read Acts of the Apostles 10:44-45,47-48
[44]Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the message.
[45]The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too.
[47]“Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”
[48]So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days. Ephesians 1:13
[13]And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.
2 Corinthians 1:22
[22]and he has identified us as his own by placing the Holy Spirit in our hearts as the first installment that guarantees everything he has promised us.

One more thing...no one can be holy by his/herself...such holiness(if there is anything like that anyways) is not acceptable before God...it is the Holy Spirit that makes man holy...when he comes into ur life...he radiates it and make the life of a believer easier for u...he is our helper in that part to God's holiness..
1 Corinthians 6:11
[11]Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Galatians 3:2
[2]Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ.

Bottom Line...
You DON'T become HOLY before the arrival of the HOLY SPIRIT...
The HOLY SPIRIT makes you HOLY wen he comes and take charge of ur life.
That is his job...to make us holy and guarantee us eternal life.

This is a True and Worthy saying

Harshirama:
Receiving the Holy Spirit it what happens at salvation. Once a man believes the gospel of christ, he immediately receives the indwelling of the spirit.

Ephesians 1:13
[13]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 8:9
[9]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1 Corinthians 2:12
[12]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

After the indwelling of the spirit, there's another experience known as the baptism of Holy Spirit, also the same as being filled with the spirit/or the spirit upon. It refers to the spirit within the believer finding expression.

Ephesians 5:18-19
[18]And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
[19]Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Acts 2:4
[4]And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The baptism of the holy spirit/being filled with the spirit is when the believer who has believed the gospel yields to the spirit now within him. This is accompanied by a visible manifestation, most especially utterance. All instances of men being filled with the spirit in the New testament shows that they either spoke as a result of yielding to the spirit, or performed actions by the holy ghost.

Dear Harshirama
I was reading this ur write-up and it looked as though I was reading my own write up...I av never seen a person write in a way that conveys my total thought...I don't need to write on it anymore...u wrote exactly wat I would have,the way I would have...without mincing words...
God bless u...

Mikee19:
Maybe I wasnt clear enough. For avoidance of doubt, YES, I DO AGREE, THEY ARENT TO CONTRADICT

Now answer my question in very clear terms too, to leave no room for doubt...

Jesus Christ: I have many more things to tell u, but u are not yet able to understand them right now... In the very words of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, what he had left to finish to teach them was

A) finished
B) unfinished

Did Jesus finish teaching everything he had to teach while in his earthly ministry? A simple yes or no will suffice!

Dear Mikee19
I guess @kobojunkie only believes in the four gospels (Matthew,Mark,Luke and John)... precisely only wat Jesus says wen he was on earth... anything else doesn't matter to him...

Just keep that in mind when u av a conversation with him

Kobojunkie:
What he said is a lie. You can't can't born-again and receive the Holyspirit the same day... that is against Jesus Christ and His teaching.

Recall, the Holy Spirit did not descend on Jesus Christ until He was about 33 years and this after many years of suffering according to Isaiah 53. . His own disciples didn't get the Spirit until after 3 or more years walking with Jesus Christ.

Dear kobojunkie
I always wonder what Bible u read or maybe u don't even read d Bible at all...cos I don't understand u.. u said...one cannot receive the holy spirit the same day he got save...what happened with Conelius and his family in Acts of the Apostles 10:44-45,47-48
[44]Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the message.
[45]The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too.
[47]“Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”
[48]So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days.

U always rush to comment

MaxInDHouse:
God said in the Bible book of Malachi 3:9-10

You are certainly cursed, for you are robbing me—yes, the entire nation is doing so. Bring the entire tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in my house; and test me out, please, in this regard,” Jehovah of armies says, “to see whether I will not open to you the floodgates of the heavens and pour out on you a blessing until there is nothing lacking.”

So according to God's word He is the one offended if the worshipers fails to pay their tithes not the priests inside the temple!

As for the Governing Body of JWs i think you need to borrow a leaf from what is happening in Nigeria, if Buhari speaks does it has any meaning to a German citizen? Of course not!
Buhari's speech only affects Nigerians who are citizens under his government!
So whatever the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses say is only limited to members of a group that willingly subjected themselves under them so whatever they say has nothing to do with you since you're not under them!

Dear MaxinDHouse
How can u give an instruction to gentile believers withiut quoting a single New Testament verse or passage?...Ur quoting Malachi...are we as Christians and gentiles still under the 630+ laws of the Old testament?...
Are we as believers and gentiles still av to subject ourselves to Jewish tradition?
What was the resolution of the first council of Jerusalem concerning gentile believers to the mosaic laws and Jewish tradition in Acts 15 all about? Acts of the Apostles 15:7-11
[7]At the meeting, after a long discussion, Peter stood and addressed them as follows: “Brothers, you all know that God chose me from among you some time ago to preach to the Gentiles so that they could hear the Good News and believe.
[8]God knows people’s hearts, and he confirmed that he accepts Gentiles by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us.
[9]He made no distinction between us and them, for he cleansed their hearts through faith.
[10]So why are you now challenging God by burdening the Gentile believers with a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors were able to bear?
[11]We believe that we are all saved the same way, by the undeserved grace of the Lord Jesus.”

Was a Jew permitted to tithe without the temple standing or erected in Jerusalem?
If tithing was so important in believers responsibility... wouldnt any of the apostles had mentioned it once in their numerous teachings on believers conducts...most especially Paul? When he was urging the Corinthians to give like the Macedonians...would he have accused them of eating their tithe and robbing God...I trust Paul for that...he would av rubbed it in their faces..but instead he urge everyone of them to separate something based on their capability and not to their own loss or detriment but as far as anyone can give within the ambit of wat won't affect his necessities...they even try to reset the giving of the Macedonians because of their level of poverty...if it was tithe...could tithe be rejected? Was it not compulsory?...but Paul said they gave willingly. Read 2 Corinthians 8:1-5,12-13
[1]Now I want you to know, dear brothers and sisters, what God in his kindness has done through the churches in Macedonia.
[2]They are being tested by many troubles, and they are very poor. But they are also filled with abundant joy, which has overflowed in rich generosity.
[3]For I can testify that they gave not only what they could afford, but far more. And they did it of their own free will.
[4]They begged us again and again for the privilege of sharing in the gift for the believers in Jerusalem.
[5]They even did more than we had hoped, for their first action was to give themselves to the Lord and to us, just as God wanted them to do.
[12]Whatever you give is acceptable if you give it eagerly. And give according to what you have, not what you don’t have.
[13]Of course, I don’t mean your giving should make life easy for others and hard for yourselves. I only mean that there should be some equality.

What am I saying...
Am I saying it is wrong to tithe? No...
But is it compulsory or a requirement of a believer? It's NO...

If u tithe...u av put urself under the law and u av the necessity to fulfil it to the letter...what do I mean...when u tithe u must make sure wat u bring is perfectly 10% of ur gross income...
When u put urself under this law urself and u fail to be faithful...u av put urself in undue problem just like Ananias and Saphira...
Note the reply Peter gave them in Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4
[3]Then Peter said, “Ananias, why have you let Satan fill your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself.
[4]The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was also yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren’t lying to us but to God!”

WARNING
Every believer must be careful with the law they subject themselves to...don't let any church leader pressure u...give cheerfully but never under pressure but wilful offerings to God...
If u can subject urself to the law of tithe and u know u can be faithful to it...no problem...it's an act of giving to God...but if u know u can't...never subject urself to undue pressure and laws u can't follow through...God dont collect bribe to bless people...he also bless even the most stingy of all ...do wat will make u av peace with God and in ur own heart... owing nothing

This is what is testamental and worthy to teach...

Janosky:
John 17:21-23, Oga pls take note of the bold print

"That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—
23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved"

John 17:21, the disciples are in us (in Jesus & in the Father).
Verse 22: the disciples be one as Jesus & the Father are one.
Whatever you believe is oneness of Jesus and the Father is also oneness of the disciples.
Verse 23: Jesus (i) in them (the disciples) and you (the Father) in me"- Jesus and the Father are in the disciples.

Oga, according to your claim based on John 17:21-23, Jesus and the Father are living in the bosom of the disciples.


John 17:21-23 & John 14:20, Jesus Christ says your claim is faulty.

Acts 2:33 concludes the matter.

Dear Janosky
Sorry for the late reply...I was busy
I really do not understand all day u quoted me about anyways...but all u put up there are things I also support except two...
1) You view on Jesus bn an archangel Michael is faulty and wrong...I av explained dat in my write up to MaxinDHouse in this or another thread...I don't know...I can be rewriting stuffs...go and look for it...once u see it...quote me on it and ask ur question...
2) You view on Trinity...cos u don't know wat day means...I am partly in support but to an Extent and here it is...
Trinity is Tri+unity
Tri means three
Unity means oneness of purpose

So,when u hear Trinity...alot of scholar misexplain it that leads to controversy...the Father,Son and Holy spirit are United in Purpose and Mission both in creation and salvation...that is wat Trinity really is...but the argument area is...
Are this three in the same hierarchy?
That is the problem..and I av explained that on another or this thread I don't know...go look for it...but this is the summary...
Christ always maintain that the Father is greater than the son...just go and look for that post of mine...u will c my view...if u av questions or comments on it...quote me on that particular comment...
Thank u

Maynmann:
Which language was your Bible written in?
You don’t know bwahahahah

Lol...Bible was written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek(new testament)...
Modern Translation
Translated to Latin from the originals
Latin to English
English to Nigeria indigenous languages

Anymore questions

Av got work to do man... enjoy

Maynmann:
You are showing stack ignorance.
Was your scriptures written in English?
The way they translate English Bible to Yoruba, was it not the same way they translate the original language to English?

You don’t even know the language your Bible was written in and you are arguing.
Why didn’t the language interference happen before ajayi translated the Bible, or do you think that’s how languages interference happen, just wake up one day and call esu, Satan. Bwahahahah

Lol...u av ran out of questions about


Which language was Yoruba Bible translated from?

Maynmann:
That’s not interference, that’s word borrowing
And you have a BA in linguistic?

Lol...why are we argue...when u borrow words and it distort the original mean like the esu...what's dat called..

Note: when u borrow words from another language and IT DISTORT THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THAT WORD IS CALLED WHAT?...
ANSWER OOO...DONT RUN

You can Google it like u always do...it's allowed... go on