₦airaland Forum

Ukuts gp: Is catholic not included in the denominations?. That is simple enough to answer.

No, it isnt. And it doesn't see itself as one. There is nothing like "denominations" in the ONE Church of Christ. "Denominations" is a tag fabricated by men to glorify their personal places of worship.

If you doubt, tell me when the word "denomination" was first used, by who, and what did it mean?

Ukuts gp: The church is established by christ. He says 'i will build my church and the gate of hell shall not prevail against it. The church is not establish by anybody it is christ and christ only. And if the church must be united in one doctrine we must go back to christ teaching and learn from him. Christ encourage us to learn from him. (matt 11:29).

So you mean you know that your 1 billion "churches" aren't teaching the doctrine of Christ?! (remember, I warned you to be mindful of giving answers that might embarrass you).

They must be teaching that of the devil then. Why then are you surprised that there is so much confusion? Is satan not the father of lies? Hasnt the gate of hell prevailed against them then?

Well, my dear, Jesus' ONE Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church cannot teach anything but Christ's doctrine and the gates of hell cannot come up against it.

I ask you again: which is the pillar and foundation of the truth? The Church or the Bible?

As a Christian, please answer my questions honestly for the good of your soul.

I love you. God love you.

Deleted

jammyunn: then john 3:16 can never be true according to you.

I thought you said let God be the judge when you couldnt find a way to twist the verse i showed you; now you are back trying to judge while still ignoring that Bible verse.

It seems like you are just too ashamed to admit that you are wrong.

Okay, you win. Are you happy now.

Once you believe in Christ, you will go to heaven even if you go on a suicide bombing mission and blow up 2000 people.

Congratulations!

Ukuts gp: The bible is there for everybody. And the truth in it stares us in the face but many dont want to accept it. I am not ready to bandy words with anyone here because the bible speaks for itself on some of this issues but some have close their mind to receive the truth that will set them free.

But your 1 billion "denominations" use the same Bible which speaks for itself.

Why are they still in total confusion?

Is the Bible the pillar and foundation of truth or is it the Church?

Pastor Olu T: Cool down bro, I think I should open a thread so we clarify some things. 'cos when I discuss with people I dont appreciate saying too many things at a time n deviatin.

So this is what is going o happen in that thread we discuss one thing at a time, I think we will start from salvation which will be the topic for the thread.

I'd be glad to discuss with you.

Ukuts gp: Are u claiming that the bible came from catholics? U must b joking right?

All scripture are given by the inspiration of God. Hv read that before. Catholics only succeeded in confusing people with their many weird doctrines that i dnt even know where they invented it from.

Okay so when and where did God ever mention "Bible" in the Bible?

When and where did God say that the book of Mark is inspired and the Acts of Peter is not?

Tell me!

Ukuts gp: Many of their unscriptural practices such as praying through mary and many more doesnt tell good of the catholics.

Where did God ever say "dont pray through Mary?"

It seems like you're the one inventing doctrines.

Before you answer, please be careful.

Dont say anything you are not sure of. It could turn out very embarassing for you.

Rich4god: OMG... I can't believe you are a Vincentian.
I guess you will know Inochiri Pastol... Am so happy seeing fellow Vincentian on nairaland.
Am representing Mother of the Redeemer Conference, Warri Central Council.
In Giving...

...we receive

Nice to know you're a Vincentian too...there are some more Vincentians on this thread. But I'm not sure I know that name o. Is he in St. Dominic conference?

jammyunn: I never in any of my posts say a saved person can go on sinning. Even if he sins and ask for forgiveness, there's an advocate for us. Do you know you sin always that you don't even know? Does it mean you're not saved? Let God be the judge.

Oh! You have suddenly remembered that God should be the judge.

Why then have you been judging that all who believe are heaven-bound?

Friend, just admit that you are wrong. Even St. Paul was saved but he was still worried about been disqualified.

Once saved always saved na lie.

No other name for lie.

Ukuts gp: Like the doctrine of trinity. Did it not originate from d catholics?

Everything Christianity originated from Catholicism.

From where did you know that Jesus is Lord?

From where did you get the Bible?

Catholicism is Christianity...as it originated from Jesus.

amyg: All ur emphasis is on the choir,am a choirster and choir does not get more than 10k as substitute 4 their food nd drinks.why would the village parish charge up to 10k just 2 announce the bann whereas the wedding will not be held there?my dear,pple clearly opt 4 court marriage 2 avoid all these shit.

Oh! To you, the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony is "shit" that can be replaced by "court marriage."

I see that you have made up your mind on certain things. Nothing will change it.

You say you are a choir member. Have you tried asking your parish priest or any priest at all why the village parish would charge #10000? I guess not.

May Christ not judge the way you judge his Church.

May people not judge you without hearing your side of the story with an open mind.

Amen?!

jammyunn: Do you know that Moses died both physically and spiritually? Did he not make heaven? My brother I believe john 3:16.

Amen, I believe it too. But it doesnt say that whoever believes in him yet goes back to sin will have everlasting life.

You disbelieve this verse abi? Or you are looking for a way to twist it.

"For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (Heb. 10, 26-27).

Stop being a hypocrite! Mortal sin separates the soul from God.

Once saved can still be damned!

^^^

You only pick and choose the parts of the Bible and Quran that you want to use for your own fantasy.

Just now you believe Isaiah; just now you dont.

The reason I didnt want to show you anything in the first place.

Where do you stand, dear friend?

What do you believe and what is the source?

Ukuts gp: I think most of this doctrines evolve mostly from catholic and j.w

Which doctrines?

Pastor Olu T: Yes, smile.

A question for u too, once saved is he saved or would only be saved when he gets to some level of righteousness. Yes or No?

Once saved; we are made righteous; we are saved.

But we have to continue to be righteous by doing good and avoiding sin so that we do not lose our righteousness and salvation.

I hope my point is clear enough.

God bless you.

Joagbaje: There is no deviation from one baptism .There were different doctrines and understanding even in the bible days and among apostles

Romans 14:5-7
One man esteemeth one day above another:another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

One denomination proclaims that masturbation is okay; the other says it is a sin.

Are they both right? Is this one faith? Isnt this division from the devil?

Pastor Olu T: Italo u struck me as one intelligent spirit led Christian, now i just have to doubt!
Do u now lift up ur church above Christ? 'cos all I see is u canvassing for Roman catholic church which u even understand so little about!

You seriously need to consider below's post

Thanks for your concern and compliments. I appreciate it.

I am not lifting the Church above Christ. That is impossible. The Church is the body of Christ. To canvass the teachings of the Church is to canvass the teachings of Christ.

It was Christ that told his apostles: "he who hears you hears me," not me.

I think you also need to consider my reply to kcjazz and my other posts. If there is any lie, point it out.

Pastor Olu T: Cast away, alwaystrue has quoted the scripture in John 15. Dont stress urself over nothing, once u are genuinely saved u are saved, bt if u decide to turn back n be damned its ur choice.

Once saved IS NOT always saved.

Once saved can still decide to be damned by returning to sin.

Yes or No?

Ukuts gp: Dont tell me u are talking about catholic, because catholic have many controversial teaching that are contrary to the scripture which are under serious debate throughout the world.Dont tell me u are talking about catholic, because catholic have many controversial teaching that are contrary to the scripture which are under serious debate throughout the world.

That's the problem. You know you are confused and you know that all these communities that people call "denominations" will only add to your confusion. YOU KNOW!

Yet the devil will not let you go into God's one true Church...and you allow him.

Jesus had so many controversial teachings which the Jews felt were contrary to scripture which are still under debate all over the world. E.g (whether Jesus is God or man; prophet or liar).

Do you see any similarities?

Sal C: @ striktlymi are you typing an epistle?
@Italo I see you. Good morning.
Make I sleep abeg later.

Morning, sister...lol

Alwaystrue: John 15:1-2
1 “I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He cuts off every branch of MINE that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.

It will be nice for us to study before asking questions.
If someone who is saved and is still alive on earth does not produce the fruits of the spirit as seen in vs 22 below, please what fruits will he produce knowing there is no middle ground...either it is one or the other:

Galatians 5:18-25
18 But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,
21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.


22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.
25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives.

NL that is a faceless forum is a very good place to have an idea of those who exhibit the fruits of the flesh as seen and those that exhibit the fruits of the Spirit from how they post and respond.

Remember Judas was also called of the Lord and Master Jesus but he did not abide.

I think we are saying the same thing.

Once saved IS NOT always saved.

jammyunn: bro, u are yet to fully understand this. To die spiritually is to stop exhibiting SOME fruits of the spirit. If we are all perfect, what's the point of Christ's dying? Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” God has chosen us beforehand.

Dear Christian,

Could you please stop being dubious?

Spiritual death is the opposite of eternal life.

If you are "cut off" - "spiritually dead," you cannot have eternal life.

Once saved always saved is a big lie!

Ukuts gp: Hw can d church b unified into one doctrine

Go back to mother Church which has been teaching one doctrine for 2000yrs.

kcjazz: The Bible did not originate from the Catholic Church. Compiled by circumstance Yes but not originated. The Bible is God inspired. Be mindful of your choice of words.

Compiled - Canonized - Named - Originated.

God inspired my being a Nigerian doesnt mean I Nigeria is not my place of origin.

There is nothing wrong in saying the Bible originated from the Catholic Church. It just doesnt sound good to your ears. I cant help that.

kcjazz: That said, if indeed the great commission is your goal, then avoid this cockiness of one mother church. God created his people to be unique, the Bible as a manual and belief that Jesus died and loves you. You can never get people to love Jesus by being cocky, yes the Catholic Church is best for you but be tolerant enough to understand that others grow their faith differently.

It is not "cockiness" to say that the ONE true Church that Jesus founded is the pillar and foundation of the truth. It is Biblical fact! 1Tim 3:15. Except you are saying St. Paul was being cocky. I tolerate people who are growing their faith differently and I love you all but I dont tolerate the errors that you fall into.

kcjazz: remember, the goal is to live a good life for Christ and make heaven. In heaven, no denominations, get used to your Christian brothers and sisters now.

That is precisely what I am fighting for. God's will in everyone's life! No denominations! Just one Church teaching God's people what God wants.

How can children of God live a good Christian life when they are confused about what a good Christian life is or isnt. One "denomination" says a masturbation is okay, the other says it is a sin. What should children of God do?

Is that what you like? Is that what God likes?

Alwaystrue: @OP,
Working out our salvation is exercising what Christ has already given us to show we are truly His and so we do not fall. A baby needs to grow and move from taking milk to taking meat then bones. It is growing in faith...being born of water and spirit.

The scripture below highlights this:

2 Peter 1:1-11

1 This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.
I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.

2 May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in your knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord.

3 By his divine power, God has given us everything we need for living a godly life. We have received all of this by coming to know him, the one who called us to himself by means of his marvelous glory and excellence.

4 And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world’s corruption caused by human desires.

5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God’s promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge,

6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness,

7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone.

8 The more you grow like this, the more productive and useful you will be in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But those who fail to develop in this way are shortsighted or blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their old sins.

10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.

11 Then God will give you a grand entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ[/b]

It is like when Jesus spoke about the talents. Jesus has given us all we need for life and godliness, in the same way, Some exercise it and grow by gaining more but one buries his talent and does not bear fruit.(Matthew 25)
Working out our salvation is what makes us bear fruits and Jesus is returning for those who bear fruits for him (John 15:1-5).

Pastor Olu T: Nice one, part of the scriptures I quoted earlier on.

What happens to those who are saved but do not "bear fruit" - "work out their salvation?"

Is Jesus coming for them too?

Pastor Olu T: U are 'cos u are both xtians n are growing to maturity though our (not excluding myself) understanding might be limited now.

It is established from the scriptures that one can turn back even after the light of the truth. But that doesn't mean our friend jammyunn dont agree with this Italo?

When one is saved he is saved forever n a candidate of Heaven, the thief at the right hand of Jesus established that. But 'cos he is not translated to Heaven immediately, he continue to show that new life on earth which is where working out ur salvation comes in.

Now working out ur salvation doesn't mean u work or live right to be saved, we dont live right or work to be saved, bt rather we are saved which is why we live right n work. I think that is simple enough to understand 'cos our salvation is a free gift.

We are put here to represent Christ for as He is so are we in the world and grow to the stature of the measure of the fullness of Christ. We dont add anything to our salvation, we cant be saved more or less, we are just saved by what Christ did which is enough.

Now that we are saved we bear fruits (works) of our salvation which shows we are indeed saved, but not that we are going to be saved. We are not to live as enemy of the cross 'cos if we do we will be cast away bt God forbid.

So in conclusion the working out ur salvation is not working to be saved, bt 'cos we are saved we work it out. The Holy Ghost has already wrought salvation in us so its our duty to work it out to show we are indeed saved. Read verse 13 to get a clearer picture.

I did not quote scriptures not to make the post too long n also 'cos I am using my phone.
Scriptures to consider, my fist post.

"Cast away" from what?

Joagbaje: What is work out ? We go to the gym to develop our God given muscles etc. God has blessed us with everything in christ. But you must work it out by knowledge, by faith, and by acting it out.

Sir, St. Paul didnt say "work out your God-given blessings."

He said "work our your SALVATION."

They are two different things.

Pastor Olu T: Rightly said, the devil has succeeded enough in diverting our attention from that which is most important. We major or the minor n minor on the major, with this many have been led astray.

The devil has rather succeeded in diverting your attention from God's one true Church.

It it the pillar and foundation of the truth. It cannot teach error, unlike the other 1billion "churches" founded by men.

Joagbaje: It's been so from bible days. A day will come we will all come into the perfect knowledge of truth. We may have different levels of understanding but that should not stop us from accepting one another. As long as we beilev in the basic truth. One ,God ,one baptism ,one Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Based on this , we should focus on our assignment and stop judging or criticizing another. Pray for one another , perfection will take place in the body

Christians today have deviated from the one faith one baptism talked about in that verse.

We now have 1billion faiths. Thanks to those who insist on doing their own thing.

paulcr7: Revelation 17 talks about Babylon and her daughters.A woman represent a church and babylon represent apostasy(Genesis 11).The harlot woman means the a church united with d state(rev 17:2,rev 13:1-2,Daniel 2:41), in enforcing its doctrines,killing the saints of God that are true to the bible alone.(rev17:6).This happened in d dark ages when roman govt under constantine united with the papacy and also persecuted the saints.Babylon represent the roman church but rev 17:5 talks abt d daughters of Babylon.That means there are many apostate churches with false doctrines.Baptism by sprinkling,change of sabbath,worshiping images,giving the pope the power to forgive sins(righteousness by works),immortality,purgatory,spiritualism,heaven&hell after death.All these doctrines originated from d roman church and all who hold any of these doctrines are daughters of Babylon.However,rev 12 talks abt a pure and holy woman representing God's true church.The woman is a singular woman.These are some of the characteristics of God's true church.1.it will arise after the dark ages(rev 12:5),after 1798.2.it will be a remnant(Minority)-vs 17.3.it will keep all of God's commandments including the 4th.vs 17.4.it will av d spirit of prophecy-rev 19:10.5.it will be a world wide church-mathew 28:19,20.6.It will be persecuted like in the dark ages by the coming together of church and state(rev12:17,rev 13).If u can study the book of revelation,u will find other characteristics.However,God has many children in many churches that are faithful to him but he is calling us to find the one true church and go there(rev 18:4,5).The dark ages will come again and those who unite with God's church will be persecuted just like the waldenses.Babylon is going to fall(rev 18:21-24) and God is still calling us to come out of it,so that we will nt receive d mark of d beast.Today,churches are teaching human traditions rather than the pure word of God.Truth is no longer absolute but relative.the standards are going down.A national sunday law will be passed soon and God's people will be persecuted.Come out of babylon is the call.There is only 1 church that fulfils these characteristics and God is calling his children to unite to his church."in d matter of conscience,the majority has no power".Lets follow the truth because its true and nt because it is popular.Truth has never been popular and the remnant has always been persecuted.God is calling us to uplift his laws above every human tradition

You have quoted the Bible extensively to criticize the Catholic Church. I hope you know that the Bible originated from the Catholic Church.

If the Catholic Church is evil, the Bible is evil.

Ukuts gp: U mean d devil is d one confusing the pastors abi. Why do we blame satan for everything?

The "pastors" are the ones allowing the devil to use them to teach false doctrine.

Who made them psstors anyway?

Pastor Olu T: And the church is Roman catholic i guess?

You have said so.

Ukuts gp: And which church is that?

Allow me not to say for now. But let me give you pointers.

Do you believe that Jesus founded only ONE Church with one faith and one doctrine?