₦airaland Forum

amyg: There are 3 sides to every story,ur version,my version and the TRUTH.its like a stain of oil in water.even if it be a tanker of water,it must always FLOAT.once more,happy sales.

Daughter of God, dont you think it would be better for the house of God if you could show us any couple anywhere in that world that is being denied of the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony just because they cannot pay a fee?

Then we can take the issue up and go about trying to correct the wrong in God's house.

If you cannot provide evidence of this, shouldn't we just take you as someone who just wants to condemn the Church based on something that could well be a lie?

Sometimes I cant help thinking that some people deliberately set out to make us laugh on nairaland.

mufikings: (John 14:6) -Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

The Lord made it clear that you can never ever !!!get to the FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH HIM....WHY IN God's NAME SHOULD I PRAY THROUGH MARY WHEN THE LORD HIMSELF SAID I SHOULD COME TO HIM.....just don't get you Catholics some times.

Good. Mary and I believe that you can only go to the Father through Jesus. That is why I say Mother Mary, please let me go with you to JESUS so that I can get to the Father through him.

Mary doesnt take us away from Jesus. She takes us to him.

adsonstone: The church in Rome (possibly Catholic)
I don't know exactly when it was compiled...probably in the early centuries.

LOL!!!

So if you are not really sure who or when, how are you sure the compilers didnt include books that were not inspired and exclude inspired books?

I once again put it to you that the Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church in the 4th century. If the Catholic Church wasnt inspired by the Holy Spirit to do this, the Bible cannot be trusted. If you disagree please answer the above question.

adsonstone: 1&3. The same set of scrolls that were available to Jesus and the apostles (that they always referred to) is what is available to us now in a single book called the Bible (Old testament).
I disagree with the point you raised that the Bible is the teaching of the Church (maybe if you had said the New testament, I would have agreed). The church came into existence long after the old testament existed.

Who then made the Bible as it is today and where did God command that any such thing should be made?

adsonstone: 2. Now, Jesus appointed Peter to guide the church and not otherwise. So if Peter wrote an epistle, it is also to guide the church.

Question was:
If even the writer, Paul, had to go to the Church to be sure he wasnt writing error, why should you the believe the letter and doubt the Church that guides the author of the letter?

It seems you're dodging my questions.

adsonstone: I believe you know the answer to this.

I do. But I do not know if you do, based on all you've been saying.

Who compiled it and when?

But wait o...will I never meet any of my brothers and sisters on this thread? Or might I meet them but not know it is them?

Even Babestell, my mama pikin wey dey siddon for the same pew with me b4 dey take style run from me for nairaland. Chai!

Syncan: @ Italo, except for extremely important cases, the confidentiality this forum gives isn't always advisable to destroy. You both can create a mail communication or create new Fb accounts for the purpose and chat there. I really do not see a need for the F2F debate if truth is what is sought, moreso debating from your comfort zones will avail you both of easy access to material aids. One may not access such sometimes easily anywhere, and the aim is exposition of truth, not who wins bro.

Thanks. Truth is, though I am usually open to F2F discussions on the faith, with acquaintances and people I might meet by chance, this is a totally different proposition and I have the very reservations you guys have. This is someone who knows what I stand for but I know not who he is, what he's up to or what could possibly come out of it in future (especially considering the sensitivity of our exchanges in this section. )

Thanks guys for helping me come to a strong conviction not to go.

It's either nairaland, a new email, a new fcbk etc...or "bye, God bless you."

adsonstone: Yes, it is.
Simple, Its not there cos you don't need it (or not available when it was compiled). Love what you have and value it...its complete enough for you to learn from.

...compiled by who...and when?

chidachris: Its quite unbelievable that you say the apostles didn't know the bible. Even though it wasn't called bible in those days but "scriptures" which were contained in scrolls, on many occasions both jesus and the apostles in their teachings quoted the books of moses, isiah, daniel, samuel, psalms and all other prophets. So how did they know all this if they didn't have the scriptures?
The guide to a christian life is the bible cos it contains the word of God.
Jesus christ didn't preach doctrines but salvation and apostle paul said "we are saved by grace not by works that no man should boast in himself"
The only way to salvation is jesus christ and not a church.
The bible says " in those days the commandments were written on tablets of stone but now its written our hearts.
And lots more

My friend, go and learn what you dont know.

The apostles never knew a bible.

Almost all the apostles died before the Revelation was written.

You dont know and you wont be quiet.

adsonstone: The book is not the basis, its the guide to Christian living and where we can learn from.

The basis for the Christian faith is simply:
Believing in Jesus as the Son of God, born of a virgin (Mary), Crucified (Died to save us), and Resurrected

At what point in time did a book take over the Church as the guide and who made it so?

At least we know a book wasnt the guide in the Acts 15 story. It was the Church.

Syncan: Haba oga, you said the church and Jesus is same, now you say the church (Jesus) can teach falsely, "if it has refused to go in line with the teaching of christ". So according to you, simply put, Jesus can teach falsely if he refuses to go in line with the teaching of Jesus.

Nothing we no go hear for this place!

Nothing we no go hear, I tell you.

adsonstone: Answer: Yes it can. (If it has refused to go in line with the teaching of Christ).

If the apostles' church (pillar and foundation of truth) could teach error, you're saying the apostles also could have taught error in their letters.

See the confusion you're in?

adsonstone: Another thing you should note is that the bible never existed then (as it is today) so, they could not have had one. They only had scriptures and scrolls written by the prophets which Jesus and the Apostles always referred to in their teaching (because they were inspired of God).

Who then made the Bible as it is today and where did God command that any such thing should be made?

adsonstone: You should also note that the Epistles of the Apostle Paul were written to the Churches in different locations to guide them. Why: because they had issues that needed to be attended to which they couldn't tackle....so they needed the Epistles.

You should also note that Peter (the one who holds the keys to the kingdom) said many misinterpret Paul's epistles to their own destruction. This shows that a letter or book cannot be an authority in itself. The Church interprets it so that you dont use it to destroy your soul.

If even the writer, Paul, had to go to the Church to be sure he wasnt writing error, why should you doubt the believe the letter and doubt the Church that guides the author of the letter?

adsonstone: By the way, I'll like you to answer this:
What is the relevance of the bible to the church?

The Bible is part of the teaching of the Church that was put down in writing. The Church existed before it and would still exist if it never made a Bible.

adsonstone: What else will serve as a guide for my Christian life if I doubt the bible? Its totally awful if I doubt the Bible.
By the way, do You doubt it (the Bible)?

I dont doubt the Bible...because I believe when the Church (the pillar and foundation of truth) says it is Gods word and the apostles wrote those letters. I believe the bible because I believe the Church that compiled and canonized it.

Jesus wasnt recorded to ever tell anyone to write any book.

He just picked 12men and built his Church on them with Peter as head.

When did a book become the basis of Christian faith?

adsonstone: Correlation between both answers (in my own opinion though): The Church is part of Christ (the body of Christ). My conclusion: They are one.

So if the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, can it then teach false doctrine?

adsonstone: Now, the bible is the guide for the (earthly) Church.
Why?
Reason: That's where the teaching of Christ can be found.
Do you disagree?

I disagree. If the Bible were the guide for the earthly Church, Stephen, Titus, Paul, Luke would have mentioned the Bible.

On the contrary, all these men never had a Bible.

Instead, Paul tells us where to go to be guided in the truth.- The Church.

And that is exactly what he did in Acts 15, when there was a doctrinal issue.

He went to the Church for guidance...not the Bible.

If the Holy Spirit, Paul...and even the Bible itself says 'go to the church for the truth,' why are you adamant that it must be the bible, not the church?

Thanks guys for the advice. Your concerns are the same as mine.

I will really think and pray about these points you've raised.

adsonstone: I don't doubt the Bible.

Why?

adsonstone: My answer: Jesus is. (His teaching)
I'll appreciate it if you also answer this question.

My answer: The Church.

Do you disagree?

*note that we both agree that the foundation and pillar of truth is not the Bible*

What do you think your Bible says about this?

babestell: People borrow money to get married. Why on earth?

Nne, though I cant judge them but e get as the thing be for my ear o...

babestell: Don't go

Thanks. Security reasons?

Do you mind expantiating?

By the way, I forgot to send my congratulations to your brother.

Ukuts gp: i just say that to express my amazement. That does not mean that u know the bible more than me. U cant twist scripture to deceive me. I know the history of the bible but u would be adamant to accept d truth. I dnt waist my time for nothing. Ok.

What is the foundation and pillar of truth?

@adsonstone,

What's the pillar and foundation of truth?

@adsonstone,

How then can you know you are being fed by Peter?

The letters that are attributed to Peter and his apostles could have been written by anybody else.

How are you sure of the source of the letters?

Morning people. Sal C has come first in this quiz o...lol.

I have a small issue to share with everyone.

1. Some guy on nairaland has invited me to a debate between me and him at a location and time of my choice.

Does anyone have any suggestions...reservations etc?

^^^That would be a good way to go about it.

@amyg,

Can you let us know any couple like that?

Let us take it up with the relevant authorities within the Church and see their response.

Syncan: speak and do = water and spirit? see levels na!

Oh boy! Just when you think you've heard it all.

Jesus dey patient o!

Okeyxyz,

Who taught you this one?

Sal C: Ok, to be frank, I've not witnessed what you people are talking about , but I don't think it's a bad idea to wear a smile during the rite of peace. It is supposed to be the time to do away with personal bitterness and grudges and happily offer the sign of peace to all. If what my brethren said above is true, then we girls need a little re- orientation.

But you men have your own wahala sha.

#PEACE#

Its very true o. I think its the same orientation they have outside that they carry into mass. "If i'm friendly, he'll be having ideas."

Though like you said, guys are part of the problem.

If the girl smiles at them, some will start thinking she's tripping.

But mature guys n girls know how to exchange courtesy without these judgemental conclusions.

The problem is: how many are that mature?

adsonstone: I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

adsonstone: I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

2. How do you that Peter ever wrote anything you have been reading in the Bible and you're being fed by him?

My answer: The Church (men) told me. Yours?

adsonstone: I am Jesus' sheep, being fed by what Jesus taught himself and what Apostle Peter and other Apostles taught in the early church (all which is contained in the Bible). I do not follow what men have put together which is not in line with the bible. #its my standard.

The bold is a lie. All Peter's teachings are not in the Bible. Infact, only a tiny fraction of their teachings are in the Bible.

Most of their teachings were by oral tradition.

Agreed?

knowledge4: Follow the bible. Focus on the bible.Look on to Jesus Christ alone as author and finisher of your faith,
Read the bible and do what it says and if you can endure to the end, you will make it to heaven.
There are no churches in heaven but the bible, the word of God stands forever (Isaiah 40:.
You will be judged by what the bible says,not what the church says.

What is the pillar and foundation of the truth...the Church or the Bible?

No Protestant has been able to answer it after 4days, 10pages, 300posts.

Maybe you can help them.

Syncan: please call him brother na, he knows clearly that his "church" was founded to aid an adulterous king, yet he remains there, convincing himself that "all join", he has never heard of building on non-solid foundation. His only problem is for you to call him brother, abeg consider am na.

Just imagine!

"Call me brother" "call me brother"

They say we be antichrist, yet them wan be antichrist brother...