₦airaland Forum

@ jammyunn,

Just in case you're still insistent on twisting the word of God, here are a few more verses for you to twist:

"...but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9, 27);


"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4, 4).

Paul was saved, yet he was worried about being disqualified.


"For if we wilfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries" (Heb. 10, 26-27).

If "WE" (who are saved) continue in sin, we are building our bridge to hell.

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS A BIG LIE, BROTHER!

I love you.

God love you.

jammyunn: In Phillipians 1:19, Paul said, "For I know that this will turn out for my salvation through your prayers and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Does it mean Paul hasn't been saved when he wrote the Phillipians? He's talking about salvation from the cares of this world not the free eternal salvation Christ has given us. As long as we are on earth, we MUST face trials and temptations. Translation is very important in understanding the Bible. From the greek word, "cut off" refers to immediate "death", spiritual or physical and not losing salvation. You misunderstand this eternal security because you think it gives one license to sin but that's not true. It also does not negate that our salvation is ETERNAL(john 3:16).

Just look at the bold you wrote.

I think you might be confused. Can one that is cut-off from Christ (spiritually dead) make heaven?

Absolutely not. In fact, the Bible is full of passages that either directly or indirectly contradict this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved.”

Rom 11:17-23, “But if some of the branches were broken off (the Jews), and you, a wild olive shoot (the Gentiles), were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree (Jesus Christ) do not boast over the branches...For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you...Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Paul is talking about how salvation has come to the Gentiles, while many of the Jews have rejected it. And he makes it very clear that once you have been grafted into Christ, you must “continue in His kindness,” or you can also be cut off. So, even after you’ve been saved, you can still be cut off from Jesus Christ.

Gal 5:1, “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery (sin).” If once saved always saved is true, then one cannot “submit again” to a “yoke of slavery,” and Paul’s warning would make no sense.
But Paul goes on in verse 4 to say, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.” Paul is talking to Gentile Christians who had been wrongly taught by the Judaizers that they have to be circumcised and obey the Mosaic Law in order to be true Christians. Paul tells them that is false, and if they submit to circumcision and to the Old Law, they will be “severed from Christ.” If once saved always saved is true, they can’t be severed from Christ and, once again, Paul’s warning is meaningless.

Luke 15. The Prodigal Son was in his father’s house, and the father here is representative of God the Father. Then, the Prodigal Son leaves his father’s house and goes and lives a sinful life. In the end, though, he repents and returns to his father. After the Prodigal Son returns, the father says this of in verse 24: “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.”
In Evangelical terminology, to be dead is to be unsaved, and to be alive is to be saved. Notice very carefully, though, that the father says the son is alive “again.” In other words, the son was alive, or saved, when he was in his father’s house at the beginning of the parable; was “dead,” or unsaved, when he left his father’s house and lived in sin; then was alive again, saved again, when he repented and returned to his father’s house. Alive, dead, alive again. Saved, unsaved, saved again.
Once saved always saved? A BIG LIE!

spenca: Dnt 4get terminal diseases cant be cured which the doctor knows before prescribing pills and all so what has he been treating when we all know he has no cure and there is no cure existing also just to show that he puts the patient in a prolonged agony n pain ,

Let me get your point straight. In relation to the topic, is euthanasia a sin or not?

I dont want to misunderstand you.

I will tell you why.

Because Jesus gave us one Church to teach us but men have founded their own places of worship and called them "churches."

Jesus' ONE Church is still in existence and it was that Church that gave us the Bible in the fourth century.

Find that Church and you will find the fullness of the true teachings of Jesus. Listen to that Church as it explains the word of God which is revealed through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition...then you will avoid the ones Jesus calls "workers of lawlessness."

Pastor Olu T: Nice one Italo, are u a Roman catholic?

Thanks. Yes, I'm Catholic. You?

spenca: First and foremost op suicide is absolutely different from euthansia ,and to the poster above well said the link given has said a great deal with many contraductions, and i think there isnt really a difference in the active and passive in the sense that like the analogy given ,turning off of the respirator isnt it like using a lethal way to end a life we both knw by turning of that life support the patient would die so what is the point ?

The difference between the active and passive is the intent.

One has directly willed to end a life; the other has genuinely tried to save but has had to accept his inability to do that.

It might be a very fine line between the two but trust me, God sees that line in your heart.

Pastor Olu T: Two of u are both right but its just the way u understood this so dont argue to disagree bt argue to agree n not for ulterior motives, bear with me I will join this conversation soon.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

I dont think so. He is saying once a person is "born-again," heaven is assured. I am saying that is a big lie.

We cannot both be correct.

God bless you too.

[quote author=Imobus 爱]Christians what do you think of Euthanasia? Is it always wrong?

It is a personal choice to take away one's pain and suffering. It would be pretty ruthless if God would consider taking you own life because of too much pain a sin.

What does the bible have to say about this?[/quote]The Catholic Church and Euthanasia

The Essentials of the Catholic Church’s Stance on Controversial Issues
Catholicism regards life as sacred, and taking any innocent life is immoral and sinful. The Catholic Church uses same principles to condemn euthanasia as it does to condemn abortion.

The Church believes that no one needs or ought to suffer a long, painful death, and that the sick must be treated and the dying must be comforted. The dying and those suffering enormous pain from disease or injury or can and should have as much painkiller medication as they can tolerate, as long as the medication isn’t the cause of death. Modern medicine has created a plethora of chemicals to diminish or even remove pain, even if it means the patient loses consciousness. So giving someone morphine is permitted and encouraged, for example, but the dosage can’t be large enough to be the direct cause of death.

The Church distinguishes between two types of euthanasia: In active euthanasia, you cause death by actively giving a person something to hasten death. In passive euthanasia, you cause death by not doing what’s necessary to preserve or sustain life. In more detail:

Active: Any procedure or treatment that directly causes the death of a patient. Giving someone a lethal injection or drinking poison are examples. This type is always considered immoral and sinful because it’s the direct taking of an innocent life.

Passive: Intentionally withholding life-sustaining treatment. If the treatment is sustaining life and stopping or removing it ends life, then doing so is considered passive euthanasia. For example, turning off a respirator that’s being used by a patient whose lungs won’t work on their own is passive euthanasia. Like active euthanasia, passive euthanasia is considered immoral and sinful, because its primary purpose is the death of an innocent person. The means are different, however.

The Church also distinguishes between direct and indirect passive euthanasia:

Direct passive: Intentionally causing death by withholding medicine or a procedure or stopping one that’s begun. This type is always immoral.

Indirect passive: Withholding treatment or medicine that may cause death, but death isn’t the intent or direct cause of withholding it. This type isn’t considered immoral. For example, an elderly man dying of cancer who’s also diabetic can refuse (or his family can refuse) insulin injections as long as he’s already started the dying process and will die of cancer or complications of it well before he’d die of diabetes. As long as the medicine or treatment being withheld isn’t the direct cause of death, it can be refused.

It’s considered morally permissible to have a Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) order on the chart in case the patient has a heart attack because doing cardio-pulmonary resuscitation (CPR) would be fruitless or would only prolong death by cancer.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church clarifies when medical treatment can be refused or stopped: “Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of ‘over-zealous’ treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted.”

m.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-catholic-church-and-euthanasia.html

jammyunn: salvation requiries NO work. They are not "working out" their salvation to make heaven but rather to leave peaceably on earth!

Why should they work out their salvation to leave peacably on earth when they have already made heaven?

And why did St Paul say in the earlier verse that those who dont continue in God's kindness will be cut off?

macof: Orunmila has given us insights and I have acquired knowledge of my own

May Orunmila bless you with wisdom. Ase!

How, where and when did Orunmila teach you what you are saying?

Every day "Israel must be destroyed. "

Make them see Israel go destroy na...

Abi who dey hold the.?

Gombs: ^^
I don't have time to strt debating weda Jesus founded a church or not or weda Roman catholism is the only true church.


I would never have time for that.


Cheers

Safer for you.

macof: God can never be brought down to earth to live as a man. No way, it's impossible, God is pure energy dat controls the universe and so every man including u and I are sons of God, human manifestations of God, but we are not God. Why then do u err by confidently proclaiming a dead Jew as God almighty, who came to live among men?

The simple question you are incapable of answering is: WHO TAUGHT YOU THESE?

Syncan: Amen, Amen, and those too who appear, like heavenly soldiers against the hordes of hell, when our faith becomes front page things...where the battle is most severe. Yes I am a learner.

Yes. They too.

1 Cor 12:

17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

jammyunn: Phil 2:12 is not dealing with eternal salvation at all because it would contradict other verses of the Bible(which can NEVER be). Rather, it is dealing with temporal salvation from trials and temptations which faithful believers face while on earth.

But according to you, the people Paul was talking to were already saved and could never lose their salvation.

What then is the essence of working out temporal salvation since they'll go to heaven without working out their temporal salvation according to you?

Gombs: What proof(s) do you have that "it is the 'true' church founded by Christ"?

Did the bible say Jesus 'founded' any church?

And dnt tell me Peter was the first POPE! Who fed folks that lie? Jesus said, on the truth Peter spoke he'd build his church, go and study on what Peter spoke.

Anyways, we are not discussing that, you made your point on y you are in THE ROMAN catholic church, its because you were born into it.

And yeah, tis the Roman catholic church(church of Rome), just as the Anglican church is the Church of England

I'm in no way criticizing any church. I can't do that

Cheers

Maybe you had better stay on topic before we begin asking you questions that might embarrass you.

Learn from Bidam.

Bidam: I don't want to derail what the thread was meant for..I know italo when we start he won't want to stop. Me and him get plenty unfinished gist for other threads

I just want to let sleeping dogs lie.

Me and you no get unfinished gist o. Just answer simple question wey I ask you if you can. If you cant, fine.

Afterall, it was you who tried to derail by teaching us about the Catholic Church only to withdraw when the thing hook you for throat.

Syncan: Italo called my name! Italo called my name! Italo called my name! *dancing branama by kefee*

Syncan be trying to swell my head...

ezme: If you love God, you would love your neighbour too. I am your neighbour, show me some love. give me 5 million to manage for Xmas. A refusal means you don't love me, or atleast you don't love me enough to put yourself in discomfort.

Whose definition of love is this?

macof: If your compiled piece of papers can proclaim a Jew as God and you believe.

Anyone can believe that Superman is real

I see you are ashamed to say who taught you to limit God.

People like you only know how to criticize other people's faith without even understanding your own faith or even knowing what you're talking about.

tsidra: IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Why should a girl push? For crying out loud its a man's job.

Hian! "Man's job" kwa.

Then cooking and cleaning should be the woman's job abi?

No. God was truthful when he said (in the Bible) that he was the only God.

God was also truthful in inspiring Isaiah to proclaim Jesus (in the same Bible): "Eternal Father, " "Mighty God."

God was also right in inspiring John to proclaim Jesus (in the same Bible) as the "Word that was with God" yet "the Word that was God."

Jesus was truthful in proclaiming himself "the alpha and omega; beginning and end."

God knew what he was saying when he said "Let US make man in OUR own image."

Now can you answer my questions?

jammyunn: so a process can be undone? A "used" gift can be returned? Have you seen a car that underwent body work and after the onwer returned it to exactly the old stage?

Maybe you should ask St. Paul. He is the one who said: "if you dont CONTINUE in God's kindness, you'll be CUT OFF."

There is ONE question I have asked TWICE which I think you are ashamed or afraid or incapable of answering: IF SALVATION CANT BE LOST, WHY DO WE HAVE TO WORK OUT ANYTHING?

Kabieosi: @italo

Word up my good brother

I'm good. Hope you're having a nice day.

Bidam: Can you answer the question without asking questions?

"The pope is the Physical head of the Church" is written between where "Catholic is universal" and where "the Bible is the word of God" is written.

Where did you find the other two phrases?

Bidam: And where is it written in your bible that the pope should be the physical head of the church on earth Is there something called pope in your bible

Aha! My friend has suddenly remembered the Bible.

Though he forgot it when he was trying to define what is Catholic and Roman Catholic.

Is there something called Bible in your Bible?

Where then is it written that only things written in the Bible are valid in the Christianity?

Where did Jesus even tell anyone to make a book. Wasnt it the Catholic Church under the Pope that gave us the Bible?

^^^

Salvation is a free gift by the grace given to those who believe and are baptized. It makes us free of sin and grants us eternal life.

Salvation is however not a one-time thing but a process. It must be nurtured by doing good and avoiding evil.

Failure to do these will lead to the individual losing salvation.

macof: exactly wat I was trying to force someone to say. You claim he is the real God, asin the creator of the universe.

So then Jesus is God, that means God was absent in heaven for 33 years. I wonder how the universe was still in balance when God was absent from his duty.

And it also means Jesus can't be the Son of God, because u can't be the son of your father and be your father at the same time

Now you are limiting God. Who told you that God cannot be in heaven and on earth simultaneously?

And who told you that God cannot manifest himself in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Who taught you to limit God this way?

woky: lol.. Lawyer go take styl fit u o, if @all u ar nt one

Lol...I'm not a lawyer.

Sal C: Buhahahahaha
Italo na joke be dis?

Lol...as I dey see "bench warmers, " "church goers" na...

Logicboy03:

See this liar. After you will claim to be christ like.






^^^
Are those questions?

That is your empirical evidence that there was no flood and ark?

Seriously?

Okay see evidence for the flood.

unmaskingevolution.com/18-flood.htm

science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/great-flood1.htm

Sal C: In return you were among those whose contribution I love to read and one of the people who inspired me alongside Chukwudi44 and Lady (really missed her since I finally registered). Uben, I've always looked upon as a father. Got to know Syncan when I registered.

Now Damerry and others whose names I didn't mention, also inspired me much.
God bless us and the church at large.

Thanks.