₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: How funny. I do not need to be sure of anything apart from the One I'm following. As long as I'm faithful in following Him, I'll be just fine, thank you.

Why then, are you here arguing with fellow Christians, if all that matters is following Jesus, whether in error or in truth?

Ihedinobi: I am not sure of my positions? Where'd you get that?

You misunderstand what you are taught sometimes, don't you? It wasn't I who said so.

Ihedinobi: Lol. Wherever one has been taught concerning a matter and they have proved the truth of it by experience, they can recognize error concerning that thing.

Again, you could possibly have misunderstood what you were taught. It wasn't I who said so.

Ihedinobi: Again, if one belongs in the Truth, then there is that in them that will resonate with Truth wherever it is even if their understanding is still develooing in the matter.

Problem is...you are not sure that you are in the truth. You could be misunderstanding the truth and infact be in error.

Ihedinobi: What about them?

Were they infallible?

Ihedinobi: To cut to the chase, did you go through school at all or have a teacher/mentor at any point in your life?

Definitely not the kind of school and teachers that you had. I remember being taught how to analyze, understand and define my positions clearly.

Ihedinobi: There's a difference?

Yes. Not surprised that you can't see it.

Mart d dart: SIDE TRACKED MY QUESTION...please, show me, kind guru, the one who reads with full understanding...where in the bible was it said that ALL the laws of moses are null...for the record I plan posting my result here on this particular thread...as concerning you still being "scared" for me, I say again, do yourself a favour and be scared for yourself, as your "fear" for me is pointless. I assure you that I've read, understood and remembered in full detail all my exam materials...get behind me, satan...I shall not be tempted into using "other means" to pass my exams, as clearly you have used such means and decided to suggest them to me...once again, I say "GET BEHIND ME, DEMON!!"...it's a pity you call yourself a christian

Please don't go as far as posting your result on nairaland. Though you don't come across as particularly smart but THAT would be the height of stupidity.

Some of the 'smarter' things you said or implied are already enough entertainment.

'It is okay to repeat a prayer 3times but 4times is idolatry.'

'Teachings aren't doctrines.'

'Calling Mary blessed once is okay, but twice becomes worship.'

...And many many more.

ijawkid: All I just want to know is why they bury dead people in there altars......I just can't fathom where that tradition came from......

I will tell you when you tell us truthfully where Jehovah's Witnesses false prophesies and teachings come from. God...or satan?

alexis: The body of Jesus Christ is basically all Christians. So, the Christians in Nigeria, Ghana, England, Ireland, America, Canada and around the world is the body. It is not a secret cult, it's a group of people that believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

So the body of Jesus Christ can be confused about its head - Jesus himself? For some "Christians" say Jesus is God, other "Christians" say he is man. Is it possible for the body of Christ to teach millions of contradictory doctrines as we have among "christians" today?

I see Ijawkid and Boomark are desperately trying to derail the thread. The topic of this thread is still "Facts you should know about Jehovah's witnesses. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

Or was it the Catholic Church that made you give false prophecies from the father of lies, that made you adulterate the BibLe to suit your heresy etc?

debosky: Faith is the only necessity. The thief on the cross did no works in order to be saved. Works are a natural by-product of salvation, not necessary for salvation.

He did at least a work. He spoke up and asked for mercy. He had faith, but if he had kept quiet with his faith, he would have been headed for hell.

[quote author=From_Guiriga]
I told you I don't take advice from idiots or fanatics. They will lead me astray. So forget it.
You don't know anything about my life. Stop being a hypocrite and passing judgement.

Besides, I'm not here to discuss my way or yours. I posted a question and you attacked me without giving any meaningful answer to the question. But what did I expect? That is what fanatics do! and Idiots refuse to correct their fanatics way!!!
It's a vicious cycle bro.
[/quote]Okay, sorry sir. Don't grow up. Keep acting like a kid.

alexis: The Church is Jesus Christ body. 1 Cor l2:l3,"by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body

So where can we find this "body?"

Is it invisible and "unfindable" like a secret cult?

deSika: Mary did not tell u to ask her to intercede on urbehalf, Jesus did not tell u either, the disciples did not refer to her anytime for such. u are doing wat uv clearly not bin told to do.(seeing the important position dis act takes in ur creed. it shud have bin mentioned atleast once)

How do you know that we were not told to ask for Mary's intercession, seeing that there are teachings that are not written in the Bible?

Seeing the important position that "the Bible" takes in your creed, should the Bible not have been mentioned at least once?

deSika: i understand u built this doctrine from the wedding at cana. but again u have to understand that that Mary was alive but is now dead and cannot relate with the living. i no u wud say Jesus is dead but we relate to him. but again am sure u know that u cannot equate Jesus and Mary on any pedestal at all. Mary is dead never risen and canot relate with the living. Mary is mortal, Jesus is God.

Mary is alive. Jesus said "he who believes in me will never die." That is why Jesus resurrected, so that we who live and believe in him will resurrect too.

deSika: secondly if yu are praying for marys intercession because she is mother of Jesus. then u must know that Jesus did not really give his mother any special mother status. dat does not mean he was disrepectful to her. it just means that he saw his mother as he saw his disciples. read "...Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said Behold my mother and my brethren..."Matt 12:48-50.

But the Holy Spirit gave her a special status when he filled Elizabeth to say "blessed are you among women." Who is Jesus and Who is The Holy Spirit? The same God.

And, like you rightly pointed out, Jesus - God has a mother. Her name is Mary.

It wasnt Catholics that made it so, it was God.

Mart d dart: I'm supposed to believe that because you said so?...or are you going to show me verses that actually says "This particular law is null and void", if I remember correctly the only law that is null is the an eye for an eye law...so please!

Of course, you DONT remember correctly. You dont seem to remember ANYTHING correctly. That is why I was scared for you when you said you had an exam... But good for you, there are many ways of passing an exam. If it were for pure knowledge, memory and understanding... I wonder...

Mart d dart: I'm supposed to believe that because you said so?...or are you going to show me verses that actually says "This particular law is null and void", if I remember correctly the only law that is null is the an eye for an eye law...so please!

Of course, you DONT remember correctly. You dont seem to remember ANYTHING correctly. That is why I was scared for you when you said you had an exam... But good for you, there are many ways of passing an exam. If it were for pure knowledge and understanding... I wonder...

ijawkid: And when these erroneous teachings are dropped behind because of ones improved understanding how does that now link to satan??............

You're saying you taught falsehood from satan. How then are you sure that you do not still teach "improved" falsehood from satan? Afterall, your sect would have sworn that the falsehood was true then. Same way, tomorrow, you sect can come to the conclusion that what you teach today is false, that they have found "new truth." If you can teach falsehood once, you can teach it twice...or thrice or forever.

ijawkid: But umpteen times we've showed you guys where your doctrines or practices stem from........and the good thing is that you guys know there origin as well....is it xmas,the reverencing of dead mummified human body parts,the use of beads in worship...etc....

You have always attempted to show it, but you have always been wrong. So should I just accept your teachings, which are from Watchtower's teachings, which have been proved to come from satan?

ijawkid: Can you make bold changes just as reyginus is doing??..........

What bold change is Reyginus doing? Is he changing Catholic doctrine. Reyginus is confused. He doesnt know what he believe. He says "I believe in the Holy Catholic Church" then he says 'the Catholic Church is abominable.' How can you advise me to follow such a confused man?

Oh! I forgot that you are a member of a sect that spreads lies and CONFUSION.

ijawkid: When I say Jesus used 90percent of his time to preach the gospel I meant after his baptism............

So you see why you should have reasoned my way??......

Forget about this issue. Afterall, it is even unlikely that Jesus used 90percent of the 3 yrs in preaching. Did Jesus not sleep? Did he not eat. Did he not pray?

You Jehovah's Witnesses just come up with silly conclusions, dont you?

I love many Saints but I want to talk about St JoseMaria Escriva. He taught that you dont have to remove yourself from your daily life to be a saint. That you can sanctify yourself with your daily work and school etc by offering everything up to God and doing everything for the love of God. There are those who think that holiness is only possible for priests and religious and St JoseMaria's teaching is very relevant for these people.

Sometimes, it isnt just the spectacular things like miracles etc that matter. Even the little things matter a lot.

alexis:
The church is not a building or physical structure. A little more research on your part would have told you that.

The Great Commission is a commandment from Jesus to his followers to teach and tell others what He taught them. It can be found in Matthew 28:18-20. I believe that is the answer to your question.

What is the Church?

2 Thess 2:15:So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

This shows that not every teaching that Christians should hold on to is in the Bible. The question for you is, do you obey St Paul? Do you stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that were passed by word of mouth

deSika: ur question suggests that there are other books that contain wat Christ asked us to do
as far as i know. d bible contains the account of Jesus earthly life. hope u dont mind showing me the other books if there are

?

We are saved by God's grace alone, but faith and works which are man's response to God's grace are necessary for salvation.

chillykelly86: I don't subscribe to that. What is the need? Spirit has more to do with the unseen rather than the seen. Consider the Spiritual - God, Heaven, Angels, Devil, demons, etc - they are unseen. So, graven images will only tend to make you concentrate on the seen.
And that brings into context what Jesus said, "these people will be ever hearing(physical) but never understanding(spiritual), ever seeing(physical) but never perceiving(spiritual)...Matthew 13:13-15.
What do you think Jesus meant when He said, in John 6:63 that The words I have spoken to you are spirit?

But the images we use draw our minds to heavenly things.

Or are you going to tell us that our minds is not being drawn to heavenly things?

That would mean you are God who sees the mind. No?

rotas: @italo.i now know that u know little about d religion u ar following.point of note saints are said to be dead pple in christ which is wrong.im a saint yet alive.ur dead religion is disturbing ur reasoning.no dead saint or angel will ever pray 4u.not even Mary.stop decieving urself.pray to Jesus directly.or i wl help u talk to Jesus.dont look for dead saint.saul looked for soccerer to call d dead samuel so as to interceed.it caused d death of saul d nxt day.dat is why catholics ar dead today.

Jesus said "he who believes in me will never die"

Sadly, you think they are dead...but we will believe Jesus, not you.

[quote author=From_Guiriga]
I don't take advice from these type of people: Idiots and fanatics.
[/quote]Then, at least you can take advice from me.

Besides, you should be humble enough to take advice from even the worst idiot or fanatic. Even they can have a meaningful input in your 'arrogant' life.

Ihedinobi: So we need to claim infallibilty to be sure? Is that why you claim infallibility?

We are sure because of our infallible Teacher who does not give up on us when we misunderstand. What makes you guys sure?

:DDear friend. Make up your mind for once. Are you sure or are you not sure. If you misunderstand sometimes, how can you be sure?

Ihedinobi: Really? How do you "should" an argument? If there is something wrong with the Roman Church, there will automatically be arguments against her.

And if we are required to keep our arguments to ourselves, then the Roman Church should also keep her errors to herself, no?

My point remains. You are not sure of your positions... Including your opinion that the Catholic Church teaches error.

Ihedinobi: And you've done the same?

Yes.

Ihedinobi: Well, therein lies the problem, my friend.

This isn't very good reasoning. One does not nees to be infallible to spot mistakes and error. And we are not accusing the Roman Church of infallibility, we are accusing her of a false claim to infallibility.

But if you are not infallible (meaning you can possibly be wrong about your teachings and positions on faith and morals), how then can you be sure that another person or group is in error?

Ihedinobi: We hold that it is only the Lord Who is infallible.

What about Peter, Paul, James, John etc?

[quote author=Ihedinobi]Still not very good reasoning. I don't need to be infallible to know that something is a lie, I just need to know from a reliable source what the truth is.

But you have just said that you can misunderstand the "reliable source." So you can think you "know from a reliable source what the truth is" but in fact be holding on to an untruth thinking it to be truth. No?

Ihedinobi: In fact, the mere presence of inconsistency is itself enough proof that someting is quite untrue. So when you insist on the Roman Church's certainty and this certainty is found not-so-certain, what do we have?

The Catholic Church does not teach that it is certain about everything, in case that is what you are insinuating. It teaches that it cannot teach error.

Ihedinobi: This post of yours is what I mean by knee-jerk responses and you made a staggering number of them on this thread.

Thankfully, that you said I did doesnt mean I did.

striktlymi: ...and who made you all teachers?

I'd like to know too.

ijawkid: BecÀuse its not pre-requisite for gaining eternal life...as individuals we engage in owning schools and hospitals....if that is not enough for you go report to Jesus.......our main work as a group is to preach.......I guess you guys should try that......

I see. It's just that one would think that an organization that claims to be God's organization would want to educate God's children and treat their ailments. But never mind. It's not just your way.

ijawkid: Have I not on this thread said it boldly that we've made some errors in the past which we have left behind and looked to further improvements??,,,,were you deaf or blind when I made that comment??........

...And erroneous teachings can only come from satan. No?

ijawkid: The question I'm asking you is are you willing to make improvements on your doctrine which mostly stems from paganism??......

If the teachings were from paganism, I would not seek to improve on it. I would simply abandon it. How do you improve on the devil's teaching? Oh! I forgot Jehovah's witnesses are busy trying to improve on the devil's false teachings (as you have admitted above).

ijawkid: When I said spent 90 percent I was referring to after his being baptized and annointed to do Gods will....if only you had settled to think my way.......

God forbid it...that I should think your way.

ijawkid: Jesus never got engaged in the preaching campaign not until he was baptized......am I lying??

Yes. And he was baptized at 30. That makes it three years of preaching out of 33 years on earth, which is 9percent.

Am I lying?

ijawkid: Bible semantics agaiÑ??......

can you show me the bible knorr adulterated??,,,,,do you even know who knorr is??........

Which Bible did you use?

The one Russell and Rutherford used...or the one Knorr adulterated?

ijawkid: Naaa......most of my points I bring up here on nairaland are also from my personal scriptural study....you forget each JW is a full time bible student??.........

Most of my points I've dropped here on doctrines like trinity,hell fire,mary worship,wars,politics etc are mostly from my own bible study........

The basic tenets of what the bible really teaches remains intact.......

“Avoid Independent Thinking .. How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.” (Watchtower Jan. 15 1983 22)

Who is lying? You or Watchtower?...or both!

ijawkid: My question back to you is can you make a bit of change even when a truth is staring right at you??......

Yes. Unlike you who would rather re-name false prophecies "expectant fantasies."

Boomark: BOOK.

I call that book, Scrolls or the book of the word.

Which book?

Segeggs: Italo never quotes the bible, he only says what his priest/pope says and when he manages to quote a verse, its always twisted.

Okay let me quote a verse that is related to this topic and let us see who will twist it.

2 Thess 2:15: 15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

This verse shows that there are teachings that should be held on to, which were not written by the apostles, but passed on by word of mouth. Meaning , not every teaching is in the Bible.

How do 'twist' this?

ijawkid: We didn't LIE........can you define what a lie is??...its like saying when a meteorologist makes a mistake in reading the weather conditions he has LIED........what that meteorologist would do is work harder from time to time to make sure his research and findings are up to standard.......

This is exactly what The JW's have done......

.The Father expects every ch®istian to anticipate the coming of his Kingdom.......

A meteorologist can make a forecast that will not come to pass because the meteorologist cannot and does not claim 100 percent certainty.

But a prophecy is 100 percent certain to come true since it is God's message. If it doesnt come true, then the person who made the prophecy lied that it was God's message.

...And that is what your sect did.

Segeggs: i cant tell u of my relationship with God to avoid self-righteousness but as for catholics, what they are is between them and their father the devil.

We Catholics can also easily say: "we cant tell u of our relationship with God to avoid self-righteousness but as for anti-catholics like you, what you are is between you and you father the devil."

ijawkid: Ahhh...so the devil would be interested in seeing the world come to an end??,.....abi??......it seems the devil is now on Gods side then...........

What the devil is interested in is LIES and CONFUSION.

...And that is exactly what your sect engaged/engages in.

ijawkid: Individuals who are witnesses own schools and hospitals......as a group we don't own schools or hospitals.........isn't owning schools and hospitals as individuals enough??........

So Watchtower runs ZERO SCHOOLS and HOSPITALS!

WHY?!

ijawkid: and you forgot it was after Jesus' baptism and annointing that he started his preaching work for the 3 years......your brain didn't tell you that??........

Cant you Jehovah's Witnesses just own up to your lies and errors? Anyway that is the example set by your founding fathers.

You said Jesus spent 90percent of his time preaching.

3 years out of 33 equals 9.09 percent.

You lied again!

on the other thread about Jehovah's Witnesses and their heresies, Ijawkid lied that he always stays on topic when debating Catholics.

https://www.nairaland.com/1252257/facts-should-know-jehovahs-witnesses/2

ijawkid: Naaaaa.......we stay on a topic till the end...if its about mary we discuss it right down to the end...if its about the use of the rosary we discuss it right down to the end......if its about purgatory we stay on the topic.......

This thread is about Mary being "Mediatrix" or not...but Ijawkid is accusing Catholics of killing people.

This is evidence that you are a liar.

Ijawkid, must you emulate your sect in their blatant and open lying?

@ Goshen, what do you think?

Goshen: So, which one it is?

1. You're saved by Grace through faith or
2. Work out 'your own' salvation

Over to you, Bible Teachers! God bless you!