₦airaland Forum

In the first place, you guys are not sure of anything you say on matters of faith and morals; except you claim to be infallible.

Your arguments shouldnt be against the Catholic Church, they should be within you.

Ask youselves: "am I certain that I am right?"

The Catholic Church at least claims to be certain and we believe it. So you have a crisis to deal with.

If you say that Catholicism is wrong, you are in-effect, claiming that you are certain that you are right, meaning you are claiming infallibility - the same thing you accuse the Catholic Church of.

If you claim to be fallible, the you are saying that you could be wrong on any or everything you say on faith and morals. How then can you argue against Catholicism that claims to be certain?

truthislight: ^
The word under consideration is ETERNAL and not ETERNITY, PLEASE DOT TWIST.

"Eternal" is the adjective of the noun "eternity."

What is wrong with these guys?

It's like saying you're talking about "wealthy'" not "wealth."

What manner of reasoning is that?

Boomark: Haven't i told that i call my own "scrolls" or the "book of the word of God"? Is any rcc father angry about that?

Your own what?

Segeggs: stop beign blind! Christ had scrolls which he read to know about the prophets. When he died he became the testator of the NT that was written by the apostles for us to know about christ. Without the NT, we would all be blinded by the ways of the RCC.

calling the book bible or whatever is not what matters but the word therein.

Are you now denying the Bible?

Do you read the Bible or not?

If you do, show me where Christ read it or told us to read it, simple.

Segeggs: what i am is between me and my Father...dont u get it?

...But what Catholics are is not between we and our Father, abi?

Hypocrite!

ijawkid: you be my right hand man na.....you forget say na me and you suppose dey play right wing attack??....

Dont forget that the Watchtower asks Jehovah's Witnesses to have nothing to do with Catholics...to not even speak with them.

Do you want to be disfellowshipped?

Boomark: I said God's word is the sole authority but you said you have another source which is the church. Are we not the church(me, frosbel, ijawkid, Goshen, italo, etc)

So tell us, what authority does the church have in addition to God's word?

Why dont you simply show us where the Bible said that "God's word is the Bible?"

Segeggs: @italo and co. 2Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God".

Amen! We Catholics believe that. But that doesnt say that the Bible is the sole authority for Christians.

Dont you know there were other books called "scripture" that were not included in the Bible by the Catholic Church?

ijawkid: They were speculations and not prophecies.....prophecies are only found in the scriptures and no where else..........

Our speculations and expectances were all from the scriptures........

JW's aren't prophets we are bible students.......

Which Bible?

The one Russell and Rutherford used...or the adulterated one by Knorr?

ijawkid: Ahh........you guys are attacking speculations we've left behind us decades ago........abi ona want make we go back to them??......I have never read in the scriptures were it says reading more scriptures to make needed adjustments is a crime...........but you do know what is a crime.......persistently and incessantly engaging in idol worship even when it is solely against Gods commands is what the definition of crime is.....

I want you to attack what I know now from the many more scriptures I've read.........

Can you and your ilks do that??

But your sect forbids you to interpret scripture on your own.

Whatever you claim to understand is only part of their lies and false interpretation, so we can as well take on your sect directly.

Your teachings change like the weather... what you believe today...you will reject tomorrow.

This cannot be from God, surely.

ijawkid: I would sincere again because all there hard work was just for them to see the arrival of Gods kingdom...Is that not what a sincere christian would hope for and look forward to??.......should they have doubted that an end was coming and engage in the worlds affairs,,??........

You lied to the world. Lies from the father of lies himself - the devil.

ijawkid: Who said prophecies was equal to expectant fantasies??.........

The koko here is be observant and see how world events unfold as the scriptures predicted....aren't we in the last days anymore??abi ona don forget??........

The koko is that your sect prophesied the end of the world several times claiming they were "God's dates."

All these dates have come and gone and the world hasnt ended.

Your sect lied in God's name.

Those false prophecies could not have been from God. They were from the devil.

ijawkid: Jesus was enthroned as king of Gods kingdom in 1914....

Are you kidding me? And you call other people "stiff-necked?" Where is the evidence of this?

ijawkid: Jesus didn't come...that was a misunderstanding........
JW have fully come to know that that day and hour no man knows....our anticipation and eagerness as you know created that zeal in us.......the JW today know so much than the russels and rutherfords.....those guys were eager bible students who have done there part.........

You keep dubiously giving various names to what we all know are FALSE PROPHECIES from the pits of hell.

"misunderstanding" my foot. If it had come true, would you have called it "misunderstanding?"

Since Russell and Rutherford taught wrongly, isnt it possibly that Jehovah's witnesses today teach wrongly?

ijawkid: So you don't know and you just felt like writing....we own schools and businesses bro..many JW's do...check for them.....but we put the preaching work first........

I only asked you a question: Is it true? You said it isnt true, then just show me schools and hospitals run by Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization...or Watchtower. It's easy.

ijawkid: And please don't tell me Jesus had so much time for carpentry after his baptism........did he??.....

Jesus preached for mainly 3 years out of 33. Everyone know this except Jehovah's Witnesses, it seems.

ijawkid: Once again they were expectant..............I see no reason why you have to kill yourself over this....I don't see how sincere hearted persons who are anticipating to see the patriarchs of old has now turned out to be a lie...........

I don't see how you tend to define misunderstandings as a LIE.....abi you no know the difference.....??........

Did you mention "sincere?"

You people make prophecies purportedly from God and they turn out to be false...

and you say you are "sincere"

Do you not know what "sincere" means?

ijawkid: Can you define what a lie is??......these guys only had on thing on there mind.......and that was keeping awake and being on the watch..........the truth is you are not doubting the chronology itself but the speculations and expectancy.............now that we understand better why don't you ask what we believe rather than paste from a site??............

When I take on you guys I go to the scriptures.........being expectant is not a sin.......if it is tell me......

Jesus as we know has been enthroned as king....bible prophecies has made the JW's know that,which in turn has made us ever alert.........

Russel wasn't lying...he was only doing more study.........I doubt if you noticed that.....

Are you denying that Charles Taze Russell didnt say that Jesus would come back in 1914?

Are you also denying that he didnt say that Jesus had already come invisibly?

Did Jesus come in 1914 or not, Ijawkid?

ijawkid: We didn't lie,we only speculated.........being expectant...........I hope you know the difference.......what would we stand to gain if we lied??...were we going to make money from it??........we were only expectant....I don't see anything with being expectant of Gods kingdom........

Is there anything wrong mr italo??

But your sect claimed they were God's dates.

Can God's dates be wrong?

Why did you blame satan for your lies?

Was it truly satan that inspired the false prophesies?

lol...These guys are hilarious.

Why are they going on about candles now?

Boomark: So did Jesus who you say is the main actor and who we should follow ever tell you to pray to Mary?

Did Jesus say "dont pray to Mary or other people?"

Boomark: Do not add, do not remove from the word of God in the bible means that you've got all you need. Common sense will now tell that it contains the sole authority you need to work with.

Are there other authorities you believe in which is not in the word of God?

Amen. I believe that we should not add or remove from God's word. But nowhere have I seen the Bible say that "the word of God is the Bible." Can you show me?

Because, instead, I see St. Paul saying we should hold fast to traditions that have been handed to us either by letter or by word of mouth.

Boomark: That's why i also added that following Christ is the most important thing. And i also noticed, she felt since she is in church that she is following Christ.

@lovethy... and Catholics

See what it means to follow Christ.

After accepting him then you have to accept and do what he commanded us to do. Also accept and do what he commanded us to do through the apostles.

Stop following the ACTION STORIES of what happened between Mary and Elizabeth. Action stories of what the Jew thought with their evil mind that Christ said and sought to kill him. Following "action stories" is not the same as following Christ.

Dont forget that The Jesus and The Holy Spirit were the main Actors in that "Action Story."

Mary was filled with Jesus, Elizabeth was filled with The Holy Spirit.

We Catholics will continue to follow the inspiration of Christ and The Holy Spirit, not you and Frosbel.

Segeggs: whatever i am, God knows.

So you dont know whether you are a true follower of Christ...

Why then do you claim to know that other people are not true followers of Christ.

You are a hypocrite. No?

Boomark: we will continue to feed you people like babies.

Here is the food:
Christ never worshiped idol and we were told never to do so. Christ never married but we were encouraged to marry.

So chose the good and leave the bad.

Christ never had a Bible, the apostles never had a Bible...

Why do you have a Bible?

Who ever encouraged you to have a Bible?

Who even mentioned the word "Bible?"

MORE LIES, DECEIT AND HERESIES FROM JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

“No doubt Satan believed the Millennial Kingdom was due to be set up in 1915.... Be that as it may, there is evidence that the establishment of the Kingdom in Palestine will probably be in 1925, ten years later than we once calculated.” (Studies in the Scripture Vol. 7, p. 128)

1914, 1915 came and went without the world coming to an end, then they continued to 1925…


“The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel. Viewing the present situation in Europe, one wonders how it will be possible to hold back the explosion much longer; and that even before 1925 the great crisis will be reached and probably passed” (Watch Tower, p. 262 Sept.1, 1922,).

“The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scripture even more clearly than that of 1914; but it would be presumptuous on the part of any faithful follower of the Lord to assume just what the Lord is going to do during that year” (Watchtower, p. 211 July 15, 1924).

“It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of the work, and that therefore it would be needless for them to do more.” (Watchtower 9/1/1925, p. 262)

Was it not the Watchtower organization itself that promoted these dates? Instead they blame Satan for the date 1925 being the end, and they are right that date of the end was from Satan.


50 years later… What they say now...

"Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions 'in the name of Jehovah.' Never did they say, 'These are the words of Jehovah.'" (Awake!, p. 4, March 1993 ).

REALLY? They said it was God’s dates and from the Scripture, that is in the name of the lord.

The Watchtower has also said that some have Jehovah's spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157)

“The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263)

“The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)” (February 15, 1981, p.19. Awake! 1993 March 22 pp.3-4 Why So Many False Alarms?)

These were only mistakes, but there own words convict them.


Speaking of Russell who recently died ... Truly there lived among us in these last days a prophet of the Lord... his works remain an enduring witness to his wisdom and faithfulness! (Watchtower 1917 June 1 p.6091)

“True, there have been those in times past who predicted an “end to the world” even announcing a specific date…The end did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying.” (Awake Oct.8, 1968).

This means everyone but themselves. God does not make mistakes, man does. All one has to do is miss once to be a false prophet. Says who? God Deut 13, Deut 18) Jesus said he is the truth , the truth will make you free. His word is the truth, and if you believe the Bible you cannot believe the Watchtower

... Brother Rutherford ... May 1-3, 1926 . . . 'It was stated in the “Millions” book that we might reasonably expect them to return shortly after 1925, but this was merely an expressed opinion.' A mistake had been made but, as Brother Rutherford stated, this was no reason to stop serving the Lord.” (1980 YEARBOOK, p. 62)

How can this be a mistake When he said “ we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old ... to the condition of human perfection” (“Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” and Watchtower, 7/15/24, p. 89).

Really is that what happened. These men of the watchtower are like religious politicians, they never are responsible for what they say or do for the the Lord.

”The new order is coming in, and that 1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old and the beginning of reconstruction, it is reasonable to conclude that millions of people now on the earth will be still on the earth in 1925. Then, based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die.” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die. 1920 p. 97)

MORE LIES, DECEIT AND HERESIES FROM JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

“…Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by Gods Holy Spirit or active force.” [b](Watch Tower p.402 Sept.1 1973)

“Avoid Independent Thinking .. How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.” (Watchtower Jan. 15 1983 22)

Yet, Ijawkid would always crucify Catholics for submitting to Church teaching and for believing that God's Church is visible and organizational.


“It is easy for the established churches of Christendom and other people to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses because their publications have, at times, stated that certain things could take place on certain dates. But is not such line of action in harmony with Christ's injunction to 'keep on the watch'? ... But is it not far preferable to make some mistakes because of overeagerness to see God's purposes accomplished… ?” (Watchtower Dec 1 1984 17-

But here is what they said earlier: “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A. D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those who have ears to hear it...” (Studies in The Scriptures vol.4 p.621 1897 (Watchtower Reprints, July 15, 1905, p. 3576)

“The scriptures show that his second coming presence was due in 1874….This proof shows the Lord has been present since 1874…” (Watchtower.p.67, Mar.1, 1923)

“...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914” (Watchtower founder, Charles Taze Russell, The Time is at Hand, p. 99).

“...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced” (Ibid., p. 101).

If you are saying the Scripture are saying this and giving a date, is this not prophecy? If this prophecy had come to pass would it not mean it was true a prophecy?


“Reexamine ... Vol. 2, pages 246 and 247; change the 37 to 40, 70 to 73 and 1914 to 1918, and we believe it is correct and will be fulfilled 'with great power and glory.”' (Studies in the Scripture, Vol. 7, p. 62)

“This chronology is not of man but of God ... of divine origin ... absolutely and unqualifiedly correct.” (Watchtower 7/15/1922, p. 217)

“CAN IT BE DELAYED UNTIL 1914?...our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can last so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble” (Watch Tower, 15 July 1894, p. 226. p. 1677 reprints).

Gods dates means what?

ijawkid: We disfellowship basically unrepentant wrongdeors.........hope you see the clause there..??.....UNREPENTANT.........

And the many who are disfellowshiped are those who have chosen to lead immoral lives incessantly.........

1 corinthians 5:9-13.......

My question was: is it true? (especially the bolded).

italo: Jehovah's Witnesses may be "disfellowshipped" for a variety of reasons, such as attending a Catholic or Protestant church or receiving a blood transfusion. Disfellowshipping is the sect’s equivalent of excommunication, though somewhat more harsh. A disfellowshipped Witness may attend Kingdom Hall, but he is not allowed to speak to anyone, and no one may speak to him. The others are to act as though he no longer exists. This applies even to his family, who may only communicate with him as much as absolutely necessary.

TRUE OR FALSE?

Enigma will answer anything but the question that was asked him.

He will rather discuss Syria's civil war than answer Kay's question.

Such a fraud.

ijawkid: And who is this man??.....why should I believe all the hogwash he wrote??

You will at least believe the hogwash written by your sect which I quoted above.

ijawkid: FALSE..........JW's own schools and hospitals......now this is a lie from pygru.......

but the fact still remains that JW's are not steeped into the worlds pursuit because this life isn't all there is......we put in 90 percent of our energies in preaching....the same exact way Jesus did...

But talking about witness not operationg schools and hospitals even you italo knows its a lie.....

I dont know, maybe you can show us Schools Jehovah's Witnesses own.

Jesus did not put in 90 percent of his time into preaching. His active ministry was 3 out of his 33 years on earth.

Jesus was the son of a carpenter and I'm sure he helped his father with his work.

mumumugu: Italo take it easy

I'm taking it easy, that's why I'm not making allegations. I'm only asking him questions.

If I want to attack him like he attacks us...

ijawkid: What credible source??.........can you tell me??.......

I have already given quotes from Jehovah's Witnesses authorized publications like Watchtower, Salvation etc

ijawkid: The members lacked the credentials for bible translation but they were able to restore the name of God which persons in the past removed......right??.....can pygru and you tell us the credentials that one should have that would qualify him or her to translate the bible??

We've argued extensively on john 1:1 on this religion forum.............

You know the witnesses bÓldy woÙld tell yoÙ ::::::.........we don't believe in the trinity...and we are ever ready to discuss it.........

Which Bible did Russell and Rutherford use?

Didnt Knorr adulterate the Bible to suit your sect's heresies?