₦airaland Forum

Boomark: I can't find find it in the bible and the apostles never used candles to worship God in spirit and in truth.

So why do you use candles during mass/prayers?

Because, as you pointed out above, God never condemned it.

Boomark: Yes on the last day and through eternity.

But Mary died. Why did she die in the 1st place. Even most of your pope are dead.

Angels pray and make request to God for their own mission not for man.

Do you believe that he who lives and believes in Jesus will never die?

honeychild: Because he does not start his prayer with 'Hail my bed......!'

Interesting!

So your way of knowing who or what someone is worshiping is who or what he says "hail" to. You mean Angel Gabriel worshiped Mary when he said "Hail Mary."

And if you dont say "hail" to something, you are not worship that thing? You mean people who worship money say "hail money?"

Sweetheart, your name is beautiful but your reasoning...

Besides, how do you know he does not say "hail my bed?" Do you think vocal prayer is the only kind of prayer?

Segeggs: Italo is a master dribbler, am suprised he hasnt used his *SUSPECTED LUNA...* for a while now, perhaps it could be as a result of his many defeats on NL.

Can u call ur child SANGO and say its the child that matters,not the name? *ITALO EXPECTED TO DRIBBLE AGAIN*

Yes.

Why do you hold on to the names of the months and the days of the week which are pagan?

When Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat meat sacrificed to idols, was he encouraging paganism?

ijawkid: No mind am........italo and his ilks are ever ready to hold on to what ever is pagan.......just about anything..........

Just like you hold on to the names of the months and days of the week which is pagan?

Paganism — Where Should Christians Draw the Line?
Paganism is a highly controversial subject. Can we use pagan customs in the church of God? We already do. Simply because something has a pagan origin does not mean that it is sinful to use it, even for a religious use.

Wedding rings were and are a pagan custom, and there is no biblical command for them, but we use them in church-sanctioned ceremonies.

Wedding ceremonies themselves were also a pagan custom, and are not commanded in Scripture.

Funerals include pagan customs, too, based on erroneous ideas about the afterlife. Scripture says nothing about putting flowers on graves, etc. Egyptian mythology said that the dead should be embalmed, and Joseph participated in this custom (Gen. 50:2-3) despite its pagan origin.

Pagans created statues — of animals and people, both life-size and miniatures. They had statues in their flower gardens and statues in their homes. But statues have lost their "pagan" connotations because people do not believe in such gods and goddesses anymore.

Money has pagan designs on it. Some U.S. coins used to have the goddess "Liberty" on them. Dollar bills have an eye over a pyramid.

Pagans assigned days of the week to different gods, and we still use these names.

So the question arises, How careful must we be in weeding paganisms out of our lives? Where do we draw the line? The answer is, different Christians draw the line in different places. We need to allow some diversity on these issues.

Some conservative churches used to forbid wedding rings. Some forbid Christmas and Easter. They are careful to do what God says, and if God tells them to avoid paganism, then they carefully do it. Some are so careful that they err on the side of forbidding too much — but they err. They make commands about things that God doesn't command. That is a sin.

Example of the Corinthians
In the first-century Church, gentile Christians were told to avoid meat that had been sacrificed to pagan idols (Acts 15:29). However, Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat meat sold in the public market even though that meat may have been sacrificed to an idol (1 Cor. 10:25). He told them not to eat in the pagan temple. In other words, he told them to avoid blatant paganism, but they did not have to superstitiously avoid everything that paganism might have touched at some time in the past.

In Corinth, some Christians were more careful than others, and some more liberal than others. Paul told them they could eat the meat, but he also told them to be cautious about causing offense (verses 32-33). However, love does not mean that we all have to abide by the strictest person's conscience. No matter how many people think we ought to be circumcised and to keep the law of Moses, we don't have to (Acts 15). Even if some Christians think we should be vegetarians (and some do), we don't have to abide by their conscience (Rom. 14:1-. Paul says that we have freedom, but we are to use our freedom in a sensitive way.

Now let us imagine a first-century potluck in the Corinthian church. Everyone has brought their food and everyone has eaten a little bit of everything. Suddenly some overly zealous convert, anxious to avoid the paganism he recently came out of, starts asking questions about the meat. The Smith family, he finds out, bought their beef from Marcus Agorus, and Marcus always has his cows killed at the temple of Zeus. The casserole has been tainted with pagan-tainted meat, and everybody has eaten some of it!

What should the zealous convert do with this information? Should he announce it throughout the congregation, leading to an ever-more-diligent search for pagan-tainted foods? Of course not. The sensible (and the Christian) thing to do would be to keep quiet — but overly zealous converts sometimes aren't sensible. Their zeal overcomes good sense, and although they think they are acting in love, they are actually causing an unnecessary and unhelpful disturbance with their "knowledge." That's what happens today when people preach that wedding rings are pagan.

It is possible to be too zealous in avoiding things that have connections with paganism. Yelling about idol-tainted meat doesn't do anything to strengthen anyone's faith in Christ. All it would do is cause doubts and irritations. That is basically what some people do in their vociferous condemnations of Christmas. People today generally learn about Christmas as a Christian custom, not as a pagan custom. It's like they saw the meat in the market and there was a sign saying "OK for Christians." So they bought it, and then someone comes along and tells them it was tainted.

Some people don't think that the example of meat can apply to holidays; some people do. So, they draw their lines in different places. People generally consider themselves as strong and others as weak, but how are the weak and the strong to get along with each other? Not by enforcing conformity, but by allowing some diversity.

When was Jesus born?
Some people have claimed that Jesus was born near the fall festivals. That is possible, but it is not proven. Luke 2:1-3 says that "everyone went to his own town to register." Why would "everyone" go to such trouble? Apparently it was required. However, it is not likely that Rome would risk a rebellion by requiring each person to go to his own city at the same time as the local religion required everyone to go to Jerusalem. Most likely, an empire-wide census would take several years, and would be administered locally, by local customs, taking into account local religious festivals.

Many people have objected to the idea that Jesus was born in December, since there were shepherds staying in the fields (Luke 2:, and shepherds didn't normally do that in December. But the Jewish Mishnah Seqal. 7:4 reports that flocks were kept in the fields near Bethlehem, even in winter. The weather there is sometimes cold, but sometimes quite mild in December. Of course, this doesn't prove that Jesus was born in December, but it shows that the chief objection to a December birth isn't conclusive.

In the early third century (long before Constantine), Julius Africanus and Hippolytus came up with December 25 as the date of Jesus' birth. They don't tell us how they came up with this date, but John Chrysostom does. His calculation may have been innocent, or it may have been contrived. We do not know what his motive was. Therefore, we cannot say that the December 25 date was contrived simply because a pagan festival already existed on that date.

When the church first began celebrating Christmas, it had nothing to do with trees and holly and reindeer. All those were added centuries later in northern Europe. The fact that non-Christian customs were later associated with the festival does not prove that the date itself originated in paganism. It may have been based on calculation instead.

However, for the moment let us suppose that Christmas originated as a deliberate substitution for Saturnalia, a pagan holiday. Many of the people who attended church were recently-converted pagans. Some were not-yet converted pagans. They were attracted to the Saturnalia festivities, and sitting at home alone was not a desirable option when merrymaking could be heard in the streets all around. So, the theory goes, the church provided a clean alternative: going to church.

Would it be wrong to have a church service in deliberate opposition to Saturnalia? Of course not. There is no question of the church trying to worship God by the customs of the heathen — the church is fighting against the customs of the heathen. Only the date is the same, and there is good reason to have church services on that date, on which members can invite their unconverted friends and family into church and away from paganism. At some point, Christians could have made the comparison: on this date, pagans celebrate the birth of the sun god, but we are worshipping the sun of righteousness (Mal. 4:2). We can celebrate his birth, too.

That may have been the way Christmas started. Apparently in the early centuries it was primarily a church service. And the strategy seems to have been successful: no one celebrates Saturnalia any more. Christians don't observe Christmas in honor of the sun god, just as they don't worship the little figurines that they may have in their homes or gardens. Although December 25, like many other dates, was once used for idol worship, it isn't anymore.

Consider the case of Christians in Korea, for example. December 25 was not a pagan holiday there. And yet Christians there now observe December 25. Why? Because missionaries introduced the holiday. For them, it has a Christian origin, not a pagan one. Should the scrupulous Christians go in to tell them that December 25 was once sacrificed to an idol and should therefore be avoided? That approach creates doubts, not dedication. It does not edify or encourage.

Scriptures
Two scriptures have often been used to argue against Christmas customs. Jeremiah 10 has nothing to do with Christmas trees. That custom originated in northern Europe and had nothing to do with Jeremiah centuries earlier. Deut. 12:30 has also been appealed to, but the verse simply doesn't forbid everything the pagans did (for another article, click here.) God does not object to all worship practices of the pagans (such as prayer, sacrifices and temples), but only the abominations that they did in worship.

Basically, if it's wrong, it's wrong on any day of the year. That's the kind of customs we need to beware. But if a custom is harmless in July (decorating the house with colored lights, for example), then we needn't condemn it in December. We can't let centuries-dead pagans dictate what we can or can't do. They have no authority over our calendar.

Eastern Orthodox Christians observe January 6 as a festival for the birth of Christ. They were not influenced by Rome or Saturnalia. Does anyone feel a compulsion to dig into history looking for something bad about this day so it can be disqualified? Does anyone feel a compulsion to ask whether the date was once sacrificed to an idol? I hope not.

Let's summarize:

It is not wrong to rejoice at the birth of Jesus.
It is not wrong to do this every year.
It is not wrong to add a religious festival.
The date of Dec. 25 isn't necessarily pagan.
Even if the date is pagan, it isn't automatically wrong to use things that used to be pagan, such as wedding rings, funeral customs, statues, and the names of days.
If the date is permissible and church services are permissible, but certain customs are not, then people ought to specify which customs are ungodly rather than just condemning everything associated with the date. If a fat man in a red suit is permissible, but fables about him are not, then we need to identify the sin without condemning the harmless. Of course, different Christians will draw the lines in different places, and we need to get along with each other.

Conclusion
Paganism is an emotion-laden subject. Conservative Christians have a history of being dogmatic, legalistic, and of misusing the Scriptures when we argue our point. With that history, of course, it is impossible to discuss this subject without somebody disagreeing. Each person thinks himself to be properly balanced — but each person's balance point is different. Equally sincere people draw lines in different places. What then are we to do?

Should the church legislate about which practices are OK and which are not? That is not our commission. We are not in the Talmud business. Each Christian should draw his or her own lines, and be tolerant of those who draw different lines. Do not judge your brother, Paul says (Romans 14:5-13). That is one of the most difficult commandments in the entire Bible!

No one has to participate in Christmas or Easter, but we should not condemn those who do. Some will do it one way and some will do it another. Whether you participate or whether you abstain, do it all to the Lord, and let him be the judge. This is the Christian approach to the cultural situation today.

http://www.gci.org/church/holidays/paganism

NB: I do not necessarily subscribe totally to everything in this post or in the website but it definitely contains elements that go to prove my case convincingly.

Did you know you are Pagan?
Posted October 30, 2011
by Holy Host
Every year around the holiday known as Halloween, I receive emails, calls and tweets asking about the origins of this celebration and if it OK for Christians to partake in it.

And like many things surrounding your life in this world, and your faith, there is some controversy. But is the controversy, in this case, necessary?

Are the roots of Halloween found in Paganism, yes. Does this automatically mean a Christian cannot partake in any part of a Halloween celebration? Of course not.

Most historians believe Halloween originated with the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced SOW-in, SAH-vin, or SAM-hayne meaning “End of Summer”). During this festival people would light huge communal bonfires and wear costumes, mostly comprised of animal heads and furs, to ward off roaming spirits and ghosts.

When the eighth century rolled around, Pope Gregory III designated November 1 as “All Saints’ Day”, this was to be a time to honor all of the saints and martyrs who had passed on. This new holiday incorporated many of the traditions of the Samhain festival.

{Think of it this way, it’s much easier to paint an old building and put up a new sign than it is to tear it down and start from scratch. This was nothing new and had been done many times before. For instance, many Pagan customs were combined with Christianity when Constantine converted the official Pagan religion of the Roman Empire to Christianity between 320 and 330 A.D.}

Now, the evening before “All Saints’ Day was known as All Hallows’ Eve and this later became Halloween. Over the centuries, Halloween has evolved into a secular and very commercial celebration embraced by communities as more of a child-centric holiday with activities like trick-or-treating or decorating your home to look spooky.

The truth of the matter is, with healthy parental involvement, Halloween can be a fun and creative time for children. I assure you, kids aren’t parsing the multi-faceted theological underpinnings of the possibility of an antecedent Pagan genesis…they just want to play dress-up and get free sweets.

The problem the God of Christianity has with Paganism, or any other belief system for that matter, is not with the general practices of the belief necessarily, but the fact that they worship another God all together.

Exodus 20:3
“You shall have no other gods before me.”

God wants you to celebrate and glorify Him in everything you do. 2,000 years ago, Pagans sacrificed animals, but so did our Jewish brothers and sisters under God’s command. The same act with different intent was a “pleasing aroma” to God as it says in Genesis 8:20-21.

Genesis 8:20-21
20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

So it’s not just the act itself, it is the intent and purpose of the act that matters to God. Sacrifice to idols or false gods, not good. Sacrifice to the one true, holy and righteous God, good.

Discarding something just because Pagans or any other faith did or does it, really isn’t the balanced approach, any more than vegetarianism is bad because Hitler adhered to a primarily vegetarian diet.

You probably don’t even know how many things already in your life come from Pagan origins. If you are wearing a wedding ring you are wearing something with origins in Paganism and ancient magic. The circle is seen as endless and timeless and suggests a kind of repetitive, unbroken time and space, you can see it in many Pagan uses like Stonehenge.

Even in Christianity there are symbols and practices that came from or were used by Pagans.

In his 1878 Essay on the Development of the Christian Doctrine, John Henry Newman, who was originally a priest in the Church of England and later a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church, wrote:

“The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; ….holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, ….the ring in marriage, …. are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.”

Even the cross that adorns many churches has Pagan origins. Also the beloved fish symbol used by many to identify themselves as Christians on clothing and on their cars was used by Pagans generations before Christianity.

The New Age movement, Hindus, Taoists, Buddhists and others use the symbol of the fish to express their beliefs as well.

The symbol for Virgo, the sixth astrological sign in the Zodiac, has a Pagan fish in it.
In the Dictionary of Symbols it states that:

“Virgo, is based on the Hebraic letter ‘mem’ and the Phoenician symbol meaning ‘fish’. It became, early on, a sign representing Jesus and the mystery of His virginal birth.”

So as you can see you will have to run very far to try and distance yourself from anything that has Pagan roots or is associated with religions other than Christianity.

How much more important is it that the things and customs in your life are all dedicated to God rather than looking for the devil under every stone.

Celebrations like Halloween can seem like a contradiction to Christianity at first, but really it is more how it is celebrated than where it came from that matters.

When churches shy away from Halloween opting instead to celebrate a “harvest festival” or the like it gives children more of a reason to be curious about why everyone else is celebrating something they are not and maybe even seek out more about Paganism than they would have otherwise…not to mention celebrating the harvest has Pagan origins as well.

Everything in life can be used for good or evil, a knife can either kill in the hands of a mugger or heal in the hands of a surgeon. Remember, how you use or partake in something and your intent is important.

1 Corinthians 10:31
“So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.”

http://www.thejesuschristshow.com/2011/did-you-know-you-were-pagan/

NB: I do not necessarily subscribe totally to everything in this post or in the website but it definitely contains elements that go to prove my case convincingly.

Boomark: Please sir, i would like you to notice the question and answer it if you can. Thank you.

Good to know you like your questions answered. How is it then that you dont answer my questions, hypocrite?

I will answer you. But after you answer the question I first asked.

italo: I cant find where God says "its an abomination to pray with candles or anything." Can you show me?

Kay 17: Enigma, I'm so convinced you have nothing really to say. What does Jerome have to do with books prior to the Council of Nicaea?! Either he wasn't born or was an infant at that time.

Also you haven't still mentioned any canonical collection adopted.

Na today you sabi Enigma?

He has no permanent beliefs. He latches unto anything that favours him depending on the argument.

Well, I think it is a rather open case regarding the source of the name Easter in the English Language. The link to the name of a germanic pagan goddess cannot really be disproven since the only historical reference to how Easter came to be called Easter does in fact refer to such a goddess. However the author, Bede, was writing after any worship for such a goddess had already died out. Its pretty much impossible to determine how much of his account was based on what he knew and how much on speculation made by either himself or others. There is a later reference to her in Grimm's fairytales, but this was almost certainly derived from Bede.

That being said, the name is not the important fact surrounding the Holiday. It is clear that in the rest of the world, the term passover (or its local equivalent) is the proper term for Easter. The proper celebration is not pagan, but decidedly Christian. What difference does the name make? Further the dating is set so as to ensure it normally coincides with the Jewish Passover (though as this year shows, there can occasionally be a big difference in the observance).

The feast did not even originate in English-speaking countries so how could the name "Easter" mean a pagan origin. Does that then mean that only English-speaking Catholics are pagans? Such nonsense can only emanate from mindless anti-Catholics.

If you have a problem with the word "Easter" then I guess you would have a problem with wedding rings, the names of the planets (Mars, Jupiter...), the stars and the constellations, the names of the week and so on, all of which are pagan. Pagans were and are a part of our history and many of their customs we have adopted to our present society. No big deal as they are no longer considered pagan. Anyone who believes such nonsense needs to study history and get a life.

ijawkid: Oya oloÐo sÉe the definition of hall.

hall
[hawl]

-n.
1. a corridor or passageway in a building.
2. the large entrance room of a house or building; vestibule; lobby.
3. a large room or building for public gatherings; auditorium: convention hall; concert hall.
4. a large building for residence, instruction, or other purposes, at a college or university.
.
____________________________
Ofcourse you knw the word kingdom is in the bible........

Now can we hear from you if easter, is found in the scriptures....

And before I forget,freksy just exposed your disingenuity.......

ThÉ place you copied your origin Óf easter from still exposes the pagan practice it is....sorry bro...Ýou can't hide.......

What I require is the verse that says we should worship in "Kingdom Hall" in the Bible.

If it is not in the Bible, where do you get the practice from?

Nosu: @bobysworld; God bless u.
I really don't like it when christians can't pick up the bible and study for themselves. I hate to hear Christians say my pastor says, my bishop says..., Father says..., etc, without them checking in the scripture if it is right or wrong. they leave out wat God says and wat the scripture says as if their pastor knows beta than the scripture or God.

You mean interpret scripture themselves, not study?

We study the scripture but we let the Church interpret for us.

You that interpret by yourself, have you come to the true teachings of God?

If you have, tell us, let us learn God's teaching from you.

Nosu: @Roland: these are philosophy and emotional talk. U don't use emotion or human philosophy to interpret the scriptures.

Pls answer dis 2 simple questions

1. Where is it written in the scripture that christians should honour MAry.

God said "Honour your Father and Mother." The Angel said "Hail! Highly favoured." Elizabeth (filled with the Holy Spirit) said "blessed are thou among women."

Now where did God say in the Bible that "christians should not honour Mary?"

Nosu: 2. Did the disciples honour mary before and after the death of Jesus.

God honoured her. Isnt that more than enough?

Nosu: See, Jesus, himself did not even mention Mary while he was teaching the disciple and the multitude. his concern was the father,the kingdom and the unsaved world. She was just a privilege woman

How do you know Jesus didnt mention her in his teachings? Do you think all Jesus teachings were recorded in the Bible?

Boomark: God answers the prayer of MAN.

Amen! We believe that.

Boomark: Not angels, spirits or the dead.

No one who lives and believes in Jesus will die. Do you believe that?

Boomark: Jesus is the mediator between GOD and MAN. Once the prayer is from Man, our Father pays special attention to it.

Does our Father neglect the prayers of angels and saints?

ijawkid: That's what italo has failed to see...that right from abel to the apostles,prayers were directed to the Father..........

I wonder why they can't just do the same.....if mary is not mentioned they can't just pray......that's why I say they've murdered Yahweh so that they can do what they like.....

Another blatant lie borne out of envy and hatred. I just prayed for you without mentioning "Mary" on this thread.

italo: Oh! So now we mention "Jesus?" I thought you said we only pray to Mary. You brain has just done a u-turn as usual.

Let me Pray for you that the cobwebs of hatred and envy may be removed from your eyes and heart:

In the name of the FATHER, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen...

Our FATHER...

Glory be to the FATHER, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.

FATHER, I pray for your son Ijawkid, that you may enlighten him with your truth now and always. Amen.

In the name of the FATHER and of the Son , and of the Holy Spirit.


And I am Catholic. Alleluia!

The other one Bobbysworld28 lied that Jesus attended funerals in the Bible, you are lying that we cannot pray without mentioning Mary.

Are all protestants hypocritical liars like this or is it just both of you?

Do you hate Catholicism so much that you are ready to lie against it and lose your soul?

Bobbysworld28: Italo's questions can be quite daft. Soon he will ask u did u c Nairaland in d bible just like he daftly asked if Jesus went to funeral.

It is a simple thing. You claimed that we do things that Jesus didnt do.

And I showed you that you do things Jesus didnt do too. (This even prompted you to tell blatant lies that Jesus attended funerals.)

How am I the daft one here? Just because I'm Catholic?

Bobbysworld28: Jesus taught people how to pray. He prayed several and it was recorded. His disciples prayed & evn interceeded for Peter after James was killed. In all these the prayers were directed to God Almighty. Dts d point his thick skull has refused to grasp.

All our prayers are also directed to God almighty.

Nosu: @ yes,what u said is scriptural sound. christian don't dead, they sleep, but there is no place we were asked to asked the heavenly saint to prayer for us.

There is no place where we are asked NOT to pray to heavenly Saints.

Rev 8:3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. 4 The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand.

Why is our prayer passing through the Angel's hand?

Nosu: U need to undersdtand that ur prayers are effective as far as it is thru jesus name.

We know that. We also know that the prayer of the Saints are more effective than that of we who are still living in sin.

Nosu: Jesus said watsoever u ask in my name jh 14:13-14. And u left out the earth thing I put in my last post
Mat 18: 19

You think God who listens to people on earth will stop listening to them when they get to heaven? Dont forget they have a far better relationship with him than us.

Nosu: And as regarding ur second question, I stil dont understand but I will answer u base on wat I think u are asking;
The bible was writen by holy men of God(the apostles) as they were moved or led by the Spirit. And that is our guide as christian. 2 pet 1: 19 - 21

At the time Peter said that, did the Bible exist? If it did exist, how come none of the apostles and writers ever mentioned it?

Boomark: This same unity you seek is what we seek.

Which unity do you seek? That we should all become Jehovah's witnesses?

Abi who are you united with?

Segeggs: Jesus quoted from the scriptures but didnt bow before it.

jesus had no rosary or point of contact material when praying.

jesus didnt order us to make graven images or honour his mother.

jesus didnt say we should the gathering of christian brethrens a name.

jesus didnt burn incense.

The above are just a few of the things jesus never did that so-called christians are doing now. If you find yourself under any umbrella that does such then it is adviceable you leave.

Study the bible on your own cos you dont need priests,pastors etc cos you are one already.

But Jesus never studied the Bible...why do you?

bongila: Teaching you the truth is an exercise in futility Italo,I need a whole day just for that.I wouldn't mind spending that time on you but the catch is,it WON'T penetrate!
I used to think just like you but glory to God I am Liberated,that's what the word of God does for you when you open up your heart and mind to learn from the Holy Spirit.
Keep aside what you've been taught and ask the Holy Spirit to be the teacher,do that and come thank me later.

I thought you said I was one-track minded and not ready to open up and learn.

You are a hypocrite because you just demonstrated the exact things you accused me of after I demonstrated willingness to listen to you.

Mart d dart: LOL I believe that question is the product of a warped mind....normally, I would ignore such a childish and silly question but for those viewing i'll reply...I currently attend Redeemed Christian Church of God but that is not the point...the point is you can always have a group of believers and study the Word..it's nothing new, I assure you
concerning coverage, do you know what the internet is?

Are you saying RCCG is the Church founded by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago... If it is, then you are saying Christ Embassy is not the Church of Jesus because Adeboye teaches that masturbation is bad while Chris says it is not. Surely the Church of Christ cannot contradict itself, can it?

or are you saying that the Church of Jesus founded 2000 years ago can be re-founded by men anywhere and anytime and can be multiplied?

Mart d dart: I am not anti-catholic...their doctrines are perverted
through my discussions, I have come to solid findings
1. Their arguments does not hold water as most are prone to throwing tantrums and resorting to other points other than the bible e.g Mary's words...LOL

So Mary's words are different from the Bible's words? Wonderful!

Mart d dart: 2. The catholic conditioning has made most paranoid to an extent of repitition of various questions that when answered still lack basis

Like...

Mart d dart: 3. They know the truth taht their doctrines is not in compliance with the bible but they stubbornly choose to ignore the truth, such a pity

You are now God that sees our hearts

Mart d dart: Anyway, I am presently about to write my exam in about 2days...I need to revise but I PROMISE, I will be back to this forum and this thread particularly, on the conclusion of my exams
It's being a priviledge to sight my views and hear others sight their's

I wish you good luck but I'm scared for you... The way you read and read and do not understand.

frosbel: Kindly spend some time investigating your belief like I did.

"Catholic till I die" will not save you , a church will not save you , the pope cannot save you , ONLY Jesus can save you.

You should be worried not a little, because you just may be involved in the biggest display of witchcraft in living memory.

Jesus saves through his Church.

The funny thing is that the more I investigate, the more I realize how true the Church is...especially when I investigate your posts and find out how far envious and bitter people will go to unjustly discredit the Church with lies and half-truths.

ijawkid: I like u pass d way u fit imagine to like me o....I don't hate anyone....

I just can't understand what u guys would be doing with dead bodies if ur not gonna bury them or ressurect them....

Abi ona altars na mortuary??...........

Not surprising. In my time on nairaland, I have observed that you dont understand anything. Not even your own posts.

Mart d dart: first, Jesus is God the son, so yes, He is God
Mary does not deserve any form of worship coz doing so would mean She concieved Jesus and bore by her own power which would be laughable

So Mary carried God in her womb, bore him, breast-fed him, helped him to take his first steps, loved him, protected him...etc

Glory to Jesus! Honour to Mary!

And you say the Mother of God is not my mother?

Mart d dart: secondly, God gave strict instructions to Moses and Bezalel(who wasn't the "King of israel" to make those...show me where the bible says you should make one of mary?

You mean God contradicted himself? Did God also give instructions to Joshua to lay prostrate and pray before the images in Joshua 7?

Sorry, we Catholics dont believe everything was written in the Bible or that the Bible is the final authority. It is you protestants who believe that everything is in the Bible that have to show us everything you say from the Bible.

Mart d dart: Thirdly, Jesus said the prayer thrice, how many times have you said the "hail mary"s in your lifetime presently

Another sharp u-turn by your brain. 1st it was bad to repeat prayers. Now it is okay to repeat it three times but four or more times makes you pagan-like.

Mart d dart: 4. It was an affirmation of God's blessing...but when Jesus grew up her job was done, so repitition of that was utterly useless

My Bible says ALL generations shall call me blessed. ALL!

Mart d dart: 5. I am an artist, and i can state that I do not bow down to my artworks...so no, it is not a sin to sculpt or draw

But you quoted a verse that said "thou shall not make graven images."

ijawkid: ona dey hear wetin Italy dey talk....

him say them love dead bodies...

cheiii....smh

Yes.

Dead bodies and every other thing in the world were created and are owned by our loving Father.

We love all his creation, including mindless anti-Catholics who go around exhibiting the kind of thoughtlessness that even animals would be horrified at.

We are not filled with hatred like you and Frosbel.

Nosu: Biblically, yes, it is wrong because mary as no right whosoever to pray for u. The dead has nothing to do with the living. D issue is dat u dont know the essence and mystery of prayer.
If u want me to throw more light on that I will. but u really need to understand y man prayers.
And ur second questions I don't get it

Jesus said "he who lives and believes in me will never die." Why then do you refer to Mary as dead?

My 2nd question is: where in the Bible did anybody read the bible? Since you say we shouldnt do anything that is not in the Bible.

Mart d dart: Thats like saying your friend's mum is your mum coz she's your friend's mother, sounds irrational, doesn't it..Jesus said
"son behold thy mother" not people behold thy mother

It's not irrational. My friend's mum can be my mother. John's friend's mother was his mother.

Mart d dart: It is not, it is an affirmation of Mary's blessing...repetition makes it a exultation, I guess you wouldn't know that

Okay, so if I say blessed is Mary once, it is not exhultation, only when I repeat it does it become exultation. Unfortunately, no dictionary defines "exultation" that way. You are bastardizing English language simply because you are anti-Catholic.

Mart d dart: you guys are not doing same, Did Elizabeth carve a statue, did she continually repeat what she said before till it sounded like a mantra

I dont know if Elizabeth carved a statue or not or repeated what she said. Do you know? The Bible is silent on that but it doesnt mean it didnt happen. Is it everything that was recorded in the Bible?

Mart d dart: Lol, even after God said you shouldn't....

I thought God told the Israelites to make two cherubs images so that it could draw their minds to the things of God. Am I wrong?

Mart d dart: How exactly, they are bowing down before it, are they telling it to "pray for them"?

Your brain has made a sharp u-turn again. Worship is now when you ask something or someone to pray for you.

So you worship whoever you have ever told to pray for you and those who tell you to pray for them are your worshipers. Right?

Mart d dart: as usual, you have repeated the same question which had been addressed...Doctrine is only seen as teachings, if you see Christianity as a religion..it is a way of life, furthermore, the church you seek, I believe I told you "it is not a denomination but a group concerned with learning, teaching and propagating the gospel in holiness and truth...the church is not a place or venue or denomination of any kind..you can form a church with a group of friends...like I said it is a group- according to the bible "a gathering of brethren"

Okay. So after Christ has formed his Church 2000 years ago, I can form my own with my friends abi?

Besides, where is this your "church?" You keep saying "it is a group." Where can we find this group? When Paul was writing letters to the Church all over the world, he knew where to send his letters to.

Why is your own church imaginary and invisible - nowhere to be found? If I am to write a letter to your church, whom do I give it to. Is your "church" a secret cult that does things in hiding?