₦airaland Forum

Clem45: Pls let the Holy Spirit do that for us.We can't do it ourselves neither can the elders but through HIS help.GOD BLESS YOU.

I am guessing it is the Holy Spirit that interprets the Bible for you. So can you please tell me, what does the Holy Spirit say about John 6:35 where Jesus said "I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE?"

Some say it is Holy Communion which is the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ, that Jesus was talking about in that passage.

Some say it is Holy Communion but it is only a SYMBOL of the body and blood of Christ.

Yet, others say it only meant we should believe in Jesus.

You, what does the Holy Spirit tell you.

God bless you as you tell us.

delkuf: Y shldnt we interpret d bible ourselves? we are not in Jesus aged where d pharisees were d only ones interpreting d bible

The Pharisees never interpreted the Bible...unless you mean the Jewish scriptures.

Nowhere did the man imply that the body was or would be without the head.

Say the truth and let the devil be ashamed, child of God.

You just had no credible reply so you had to say something...even though it was meaningless.

yes...

but they didnt advertise with it

...and they didnt pray to it...

they didnt kneel to it and worship it.

all these i see you people doing

Who is it that would like to talk about the way Christians are to come to an accurate interpretation of scripture, if not by listening to The Catholic Church? I await you.

@ Ihedinobi, keep blabbering.

peteregwu: its not the issue of cleanliness or neatness. how many times do i tell u people that apron is mainly for advertisemment. dont u know among us we have men and women with various desciplines. some are, lawyers, bankers, engineers, brikcklayers, condoctors, drivers, contracors, ministers, accountants etc. whatelse. the same thing we do here,d samd thing we do in america, and other places. i could remember the last crusade in america ou pastor an d one of london, my brother, the whitemen also joined. my brother, u are looking for cleanness, but what happens to righteousness. who told we dont know how to where sweet cloths or attires. in fact i u go to fidelity bank, the manager is a chosen, and he wears his apron to the bank. is the apron dirty? no! the colour is beautiful, an d design. it is only sometimes, in the course of envangelism, that we tend to get dirty, if we had won for many days. my brother, many are perishing and u are looking for cleanness, u dont want to get stained. what of the missionaries from america that leave their beautiful homes, they go to remote part of africa, deepest part of it where telecommunication is difficult, and that also looks like hell. what of the pastors being posted to the north, not the cities but the villages. if everyone should become a banker, lawyer, etc. then who will be d driver, condoctor etc. my brother, many just pretend to be chritians, but in the mouth. they are ashame of the Gospel and d name of Jesus. if u say praise the Lord in the bus to preach, the so called christians will keep quiet. hmmm...christians. i could a muslim housa man told one of my sister that he loves the lord chosen the way they do envagelism. this hausa man happens to be a 'don' in tincan(wolf), that is why my sister works. my sister told her to join us, but he says no that he is okay where he is. but he believes our church i a true church of God. this man used to carry protection(charm) on him. u will only know this if u are working in wolf. sometimes if we are envagelism, some hausa muslims will join us, sometimes i will begin to wonder. people condemn apron and even everything that is happeningbin the Lords chosen because they are angry with the truth prwached in the chosen. i know u said u dont know much about the chosen, i understand..am just trying to write in details that u may get somethings straight. in the chosen, our pastor, when he was preaching told us that whenever we encounter armrobbers, ritualist, one chancers or even lion, we should declare "i am a chosen" three times and ask the danger, "who are you." my brother, no body believed my pastor including me. we all laughed that day, this was 2005. he said, "even if you dont believe me, i know my faith is greater than your doubt, try it u will know am serving the living God." everyone kept quiet. after some months, we started hearing testimonies of those that encounter arm robbers, ritualist etc and when they declare it, the arm robbers will tell them "sorry we are not for u", go to one side. they will rob others and they will leave the one that declared that words.

so, in fact, from their, members started believing the pastor. my brother, anointing and holiness makes the difference. pls dont tell me we are chasing miracle. people used to tell me that it is because o miracle i joined the lords chosen. sometimes i will just laugh. when i was in white garment church, my fagher was the head of a branch of that church, and we used to experience miracles when he prays, but because their was no light, everything was not right in their practices we decided to leave. if am lieing to u, pls go to number 3, akintunde street, off ladilak busstop, bariga. go their and ask who was NJOKU in that church before. everything about God or Jesus is about miracle and He ended with it. but that shouldnt be any church emphasis. but let me tell u if Jesus does not perform miracles, then what is the point of serving or believeing in Jesus. the greatest way to win unbelievers is true miracles in the name of Jesus, when this happens, from their,the conc truth is preached to them without reservation. we tell it the way it is so that, our their blood will not be required from us. this is the teachings we get from the pastor, which is also in thd bible.the pastor said if yu dont tell them what sin is a preaher God will judge u for that. that is why pastor after everyday ministration, he tells what sin is from the bigger to the least of it and declare to to repent and forsake that if u die, such person will not inherit the kingdom of God. i have never seen in my life where a pastor will declare in the time of offering or seed sowing that "if u are an arm robber, drug dealer, you sell bear, assassin, or ritualist. dont drop your money here, if u try it, the judgment of God will come upon u." my brother i can write from now till tomorrow without stopping. but thw best thing is for u to come yourself and hear the message, so that from their yu will discern and judge righteously. or you pray to God to reveal the power behind pastor lazarus or th chosen ministry. it is only God that can reveal the truth or false of a man.

i will stop here and continue next time. do u also know that before in the chosen hq, we dont used to hire policemen when the ministry started, but today, we hav started hiring them. the reason is this, sometimes they will send hired killers to kill the pastor. they will say the pastor is destroying their business. all of them are occultic men ranging from ogboni, And many of them. even during prayer, at times, the pastor will give a word o knowledge that their somebody holding a gun here and u are here you kill me. pastor will tell that person to drop his gun an surrender to Jesus. do u know thaf sometimes after service, the ushers will see guns on the ground after service and hand it over to the police. it was because of this we started having police in some corners in the chosen.

next time. Thanks.

WHAT RUBBISH LANGUAGE IS THIS MAN SPEAKING? CAN SOMEONE TRANSLATE INTO ENGLISH OR PIDGIN?

STOP WORSHIPING YOUR APRON!

IT IS UNBIBLICAL. NOWWHERE DID THE APOSTLES ADVERTISE WITH APRONS.

Reyginus: I don't know if you've lost track of your point. Your point was that it behoves on the church to determine what heresy is. I inquired who decides what is contrary to christainity, and you posited, the head has given the body power to bind, in other words, the body decides. My confusion now is, if their is a corelation between the power to bind and the power to term anything heresy. I wonder where the word of God stand in all this.

Even the man who posted is himself bemused by the conclusion you have come to.

So can you tell us what I, an onlooker, and Ubenedictus, the poster, do not understand in his own post?

Do not forget to participate actively in the liturgy of the triduum, if you are Catholic.

This is the most solemn period in the Church's liturgical calender.

God bless you.

Jesus dies for love of us...we must die for love of him.

We might not all be granted the glorious privilege of shedding our blood for his sake...but if we die to sin and deaden ourselves to the world...if we mortify our flesh everyday and every moment...we are indeed dying for love of him.

May the Lord strengthen us by his passion and glorify us at the end by his ressurection. Amen.

Amen.

Even Alexleo's Apostolic Faith Church worships the Bible amongst other things

Pygru: this catholics sef..
Na una own worse pass

All I know be say "The Lord's Chosen" them they worship apron. If you wan talk about Catholic or una pentecostal shops, open another thread na....

This one na about "The Lord's Chosen"

With Alexleo too?

italo: Who is arguing with Ijawkid and Frosbel. It is better you go to a psychiatric home and speak to the people there.

But keep arguing sha, until you discover it yourself.

Just advising.

Ihedinobi: Well, I will call you a liar. At least until you show that it is not in fact what he means whenever he speaks of the Church in the face of my question. Liar.

I see you have added a phrase to your lie.

Are you ashamed of leaving your lie as it is?

So that all (including Syncan) can see if it is indeed false or true...

"'Peter, the elders with him and their successors.' This is what Syncan means whenever he speaks of the Church."

I say FALSE. It is not what Syncan means WHENEVER he speaks of the Catholic Church. What say ye?

Ihedinobi: Well, the illogic I was referring to is the Church as an organism being its own teacher. The knowledge increase must have a source and this source must be outside of the Church or else there really is no teaching happening.

However, let's work with your response above. If someone says that Nigeria interprets the law to its people, the hearer will make two assumptions:

1. that Nigeria is a separate entity from its people

2. that Nigeria knows the law and understands it well whereas its people don't.

Now because I've always thought of Nigeria as being the same as its people, I'd ask the speaker to explain what they meant so that I can understand them. If they say that they mean that Nigerian courts interpret Nigerian laws to the Nigerian people, I immediately understand that by Nigeria in their earlier statement, they'd actually meant the Nigerian courts not the Nigerian nation which is a people.

The same way, if you say that the Catholic Church interprets God's law, immediately I assume that the people to whom it is interpreting this law are not the same as it. Hence my question, 'what is this Catholic Church that is different from the people that it interprets the law to?'

Well, maybe people with your warped manner of reasoning would make such deductions. If I said "your family takes good care of the Children, hearers like you would immediately also assume that the Children are a separate entity from the family. But because you know your family and the kids to be one, you would then need me to explain to you that it is the parents taking care of the kids, abi. If I were talking to a baby, I would gladly explain, but I am talking to a grown man (correct me if I am wrong).

Ihedinobi: The magisterium may be a part of the Church as you say, but when you keep saying, 'the Church interprets the Scriptures to the people of God', you really mean, 'the magisterium interprets the Scriptures to the people of God'. That's all my question required you to explain.

I remember telling you The Catholic Church interprets scripture to God's people...

I also remember telling you "The magisterium is the teaching body of the Church."

So what else did you require me to explain? You seem to be more intent on misconstruing than on understanding people's posts.

Ihedinobi: What nonsense. I asked a very specific question. And unless you can show how I misconstrued Syncan's posts saying that, italo, you are bald-faced liar. End of story.

Not even "misconstrued" anymore...

You are CONTINUALLY MISCONSTRUING...

Ihedinobi: And Syncan answered at his last address of the question, 'Peter, the elders with him and their successors'. This is what Syncan means whenever he speaks of the Church.

That is not what yncan means WHENEVER he speaks of the Church, YOU L***!

...I wont call you a liar since you dont even seem to know the correct use of the word, so it wont have the desired effect.

peteregwu: well, God bless u for not coming. all the same God loves everyone, no matter what. i know that one day, you will come to the knowledge of the truth.

Which truth... That your apron is your god?

Who is arguing with Ijawkid and Frosbel. It is better you go to a psychiatric home and speak to the people there.

But keep arguing sha, until you discover it yourself.

Just advising.

Ihedinobi: And Syncan answered at his last address of the question, 'Peter, the elders with him and their successors'. This is what Syncan means whenever he speaks of the Church.

The bolded is another blatant lie...and en example of your propensity for deliberately twisting people's posts.

It's so bad that you cant even refrain from it when being accused of it.[b][/b]

Ihedinobi: About the above, this was what I said to @Syncan on the same matter just a few posts back in fact:



This was the question I asked you guys on the third page:




When you answer me, what am I expecting to hear? The thing that you say holds the correct interpretation of the Scriptures, the thing that teaches believers the Truth! That is what I expect to hear.

Because you called this thing 'the Church', I call it the Church too in my query. So if you give me answers that don't make sense to me, I will ask you to clarify. I did that with Syncan when I asked him first if he meant that the Church is a body of believers, thus meaning thatthe Teacher that believers look up to is themselves.

He said something that seemed like No to that, that it was in fact Peter and his successors. So I said, ok, when you say 'the Church', you mean 'Peter and his successors'. Then he came up with a council too and a complaint that I twisted his words and again we ran around a little bit.

You yourself were unwilling to answer the question at all for whatever reason. But once Syncan started to bother you had stuff to say.

My question was simple: this thing you call 'the Church' which is tasked with teaching believers the truth, what is it?

And Syncan answered at his last address of the question, 'Peter, the elders with him and their successors'. This is what Syncan means whenever he speaks of the Church.

I challenge you to show from his posts that this was not in fact his answer to my question.

My friend, you are deliberately engaging in dubious logical gymnastics.

Is it wrong to say that the Nigeria interprets the law for its people...just like we say The Catholic Church interprets God's law for his people?

Nigeria, like the Catholic Church is also made up of the people, but when we say they interpret the law, the is a body responsible for that within the people. In the case of Nigeria, it is the judiciary, in the case of the Catholic Church, it is the Magisterium.

What is illogical about that?

And what is so difficult to understand about that?

Ihedinobi: I can agree that he was in a position of authority if you agree that Paul was too in Galatians 2:11-21. Because they did pretty much the same thing: correct their brothers who were losing sight of the Gospel.

It was not the same thing.

Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolved the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter spoke, all were kept silent.

Acts 15:12 - only after Peter speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.

Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."

Ihedinobi: My friend, I've allowed you to call me a liar long enough. Produce evidence now that I misconstrued any post. Do you really suppose that I can't lean on you in this discussion? I can. You will produce incontrovertible evidence that I twisted your words or else I will always treat you like a liar wherever I have the displeasure of having to discuss with you.

Firstly, I just wonder why you have such high regard for these little threats of yours. Let me make it clear: I DONT CARE WHAT NEGATIVE THING YOU CHOOSE TO SAY OR THINK ABOUT ME!

Here is what you said earlier:

Ihedinobi: I still don't understand what you're about here. What is salvation hinged upon if not Faith that Jesus's Death has made the believer right with God? Your answer to that was "how Jesus's Death saved us".

That is, you hold that we have to believe in how Jesus's Death saved us to be saved. And I asked you to explain how that works. I don't get where this stuff about everyone supposing to be saved and yet not in fact saved fits into the picture.

If you cant provide incontrovertible evidence that I made comments that meant what you said above, there is the proof that you twisted and misconstrued my posts.

Over to you.

Ihedinobi: . Let me ask you instead, is the Holy Spirit the only teacher out there?



Are you infallible in yours?

Notice how you refused to answer my questions.

My inference is that it is impossible for you to answer them truthfully without showing your stated opinions here to be untenable and wrong.

@ Ihedinobi, you are not denying that Protestants removed 7 books from the Bible, right?

You're only saying the 'ethiopians' can accuse Catholics of doing the same thing.

In order words, for you, the Bible has no clear definition (correct me if I am wrong).

We are not coming!

I dont want to go to where they worship aprons.

Et apostolicam ecclesiam!!!

debosky: It is not invalid - if you want to hold denominations up to the test of 'did Jesus talk about it' then Roman Catholic practices should be held to the same test don't you agree? Or do Roman Catholics consider themselves above being questioned in light of Jesus' teachings?

See trouble o... You say you believe the Bible is the sole authority in matters of faith (correct me if I am wrong), so I am free to ask you: "this thing you're saying, where is it in the Bible?"

I say I do not believe the Bible is the sole authority in matters of faith. I believe God transmits his word through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition and both are interpreted by the Church. I am not obliged to answer you "where is it in the Bible" questions. I am holding you to your professed belief while you are trying to force your belief on me.

Where is "denominations" in the Bible?

Or let me ask this: Where does the Bible teach that "the Bible is the sole authority on matters of faith and doctrine?"

Your inability to answer shows that your scripture alone teaching is UNTENABLE and TOTALLY WRONG.

debosky: I never said Jesus spoke about denominations - it was a rhetorical question.

So you dont believe that there are denominations in the Church any more? If you believe there are, where did Jesus tell us there would be denominations in his Church?

debosky: You throw about this word 'interpretation' a lot - can you clearly point out what 'interpretation' that I have made that you don't agree with?

"SEEMING" - That word was key, in my statement.

debosky: I need you to define what you mean by infallible before I proceed.

In simple language: Is it possible for you to teach wrongly or interpret scripture wrongly, on any matter of faith and doctrine?

debosky: Did Jesus talk ever tell us about 'magisterium'? Since you asked whether Jesus told us about denominations, this question should also apply to magisterium right?

Your question is INVALID. You know why? Because we Catholics do not believe in scripture alone. We believe God transmits his word through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
It is you Protestants that believe in Scripture alone (even though scripture itself teaches the opposite). So I am free to ask you to show me ANYTHING (relating to Christianity) in the Bible. So tell me, Mr Bible alone, where did Jesus talk about denominations in his Church?

debosky: A separate question - do you agree with the Anglican - Roman Catholic Joint Preparatory Commission's views on Unity Faith and Order?

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/ministry/ecumenical/dialogues/catholic/arcic/docs/arcic1_final_report.cfm

Yes, but not in you seeming interpretation of it.

I also have a question for you. Are you infallible in your scriptural interpretations and teachings?

debosky: @ Italo

Thanks for the apology - that was all that was required.

Perhaps, I should also be thankful that you accepted it.

There is nothing shameful about being wrong or inaccurate.

The shame, I think, is in not being able to accept ones shortcomings.

Bidam: eya sorry never knew i hit a nerve there..ignore the sarcasm..am trying to understand what you are saying..pls educate me..don't get overly excited i am a sheep.

What makes you think I wasnt also joking?

Ihedinobi: How does it do that? I'm asking so that I don't presume anything.

It shows Peter clearly in a position of authority at the council.

Ihedinobi: Could you provide one example of a post I misconstrued?

Haba! How long have we gone back and forth about "salvation" and you kept twisting what I was saying. You tried to make it look like Syncan said Peter was the Catholic Church too. If I dig deep, I will find even more examples.

Ihedinobi: Holy Spirit Who dwells in them teaches them. It's not the first time I said it.

So is it the Holy Spirit that is teaching all the millions of contradictory doctrines and interpretations that "Christians" hold today? Or are there millions of "holy spirits?"

And are you infallible in your interpretations and teachings?

@ Reyginus,

I dont see where Ubenedictus said the body's without the head. Can you show me? God bless you as you do so.

Bidam: bros...i wondrous o..i still dey wait make hin tell us who go interpret scriptures..may be na pope.

Maybe na your papa.

Ihedinobi: What about Acts 15?

It gives Gal 2:1,2 "legs to stand on."

Ihedinobi: I do. You do agree with Syncan's definition of the Church, don't you?

Depends on what you hold to be "Syncan's definition." You do have a habit of misconstruing people's posts. I agree with Syncan's ACTUAL definition.

How are God's people supposed to come to an accurate interpretation of scripture?