₦airaland Forum

What matters is not the name they called it.

What matters is the essence of what they celebrated.

Even my dog knows this.



Did Jesus and the apostles worship in "Kingdom Hall?"...since names are so important to you.

Boomark: I urge every catholic to first study what it is to worship God in spirit and in truth. Who this God true worshipers worship. Is it the Father as Jesus told us or the trinity God?

After then you now ask your self if bowing of unknown persons, the use of dead body parts in alter are part of true worship.

We have studied all these things and have come to realize that the Catholic way of worship is the way God wants to be worshpped.

ijawkid: Who is your pope??....and why should he be called holy Father

Because he is our Holy Father.

@ ijawkid,

Jesus is the Eternal Father

You said Jesus would reject such.

You lied!

SIN!

So now it is not only Catholics that are worshiping the pope, even other religion's leaders are?

May God help this man, Frosbel.

You people have started again.

Before the election you people said it will be Peter the Roman...

But the Holy Spirit chose Jorge the Argentine...

...And you still wont go and sleep.

Pygru: Follow Jesus !!!

Good teacher, but that is what we are doing already.

Marriage can only be dissolved by death.

Even if a court "dissolves" it, in the eyes of God and The Church, the couple remain married.

That is what the Catholic Church teaches.

Mart d dart: You're blessed/highly favoured, doesn't mean I should worship you...doesn't mean I should make an image of you out of wax and ceramics and direct my prayers to you...it's never done

Stop deviating.

You were say Jesus didnt want anyone giving honour to Mary thats why he said "rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey."

And I ask again for the third time:

Also, Mary says, in the book of Luke, "all generations shall call me BLESSED." The Angel said to Mary: "Hail, highly favoured! "So do you think that Jesus was contradicting those statements and also contradicting God's commandment that he should honour his mother?

Mart d dart: Scared?...anyway, do you own a dictionary...look up the meaning of the word "Church", then maybe you will answer the question yourself "honestly"
something really funny is, you have been asking but haven't bothered answering of the points(aside skidding around the edges)

For the fourth time I ask:

I asked and you didnt tell me: You mean there are many Christian Churches worldwide? Which among these was the "CHURCH" (SINGULAR) that Jesus said he would build on "...Peter...this rock..?"

Why are you scared to answer this question honestly?

And which question did you ask and I didnt answer. Please point it out and I'll gladly address it.

Unlike you, I am not scared of confronting the truth. Truth will always lead to Jesus and his Church.

ijawkid: Don't you get Jesus' words??.....don't arrogate that title to any man....your habitual naming of an imperfect man(in the religious context) Father is an anathema....Jesus clearly told us that.....


I hope you could remember Jesus said call no one Father except the oga at the top who is the Father of all...no one ran around Jesus calling him holy Father...it was the surrogate role Jesus was to play that earned him that name......besides that is not Jesus' name.... That is why through out the new testament no one called him Father!!!!!...... the names and titles Jesus was called when on earth was, the messiah,the son of the holy ONE,the son of man,the Christ,son of God.......

Jesus said it.....Jesus said call no one,ot even himself Father....more or else HOLY Father.......

You mean Isaiah lied and sinned when he called Jesus "Eternal Father?"

ijawkid: Your question is rigid....why don't you just ask if abraham was a Father............

Besides I can't remember in the scriptures where abraham was called Holy Father..but you call that pope holy Father.....what blasphemy......

Just like you accuse Isaiah of blasphemy for calling Jesus "Eternal Father." We love to be on Isaiah's side, not yours.

ijawkid: Did the pope in any way sire you??.......even those who are of the same age with the pope call him holy Father......

Did Jesus sire Isaiah?

Your brain has told you a new fallacy. That you can only be Father to people younger than you.

deebrain: We are the light of the world but we know who we are talking about if someone asked "who is the light of the world?". We are all sons of God but everybody knows when someone asks "who is d son of God?". And like i said before, courtesy allows people to bare divine titles without the actual strings of that title attached.

If I get you right, you are saying that it is possible to use a title or expression used for God, for a human being, without making that human being God. Why then do you judge that someone has made the Pope God?

deebrain: Yr last paragraph made me rest my case because it means the extremism some of u display may not be associated with the church itself so i would let it pass (the thought of a very respected cardinal based in lagos in 2007, blasting rev king for his divine titles then and what u give yr "holy father" is just laughable).

My friend, I am not aware of it. If you have evidence, show us. If you dont, we will take it as another cheap shot taken in hatred and envy.

deebrain: Dont u think the pope can have faults? Dont u think he has weaknesses?

All 1.2 billion Catholics know that. I just wonder why come to the mindless conclusion that we dont...without even consulting us. How do you just sit in your toilet and determine other people's beliefs without asking them?

How do you know that I believe the Holy Father is holier than me and that I worship him as God? Show me where I or any other Catholic has ever said that the Pope is holier than anybody else and we worship him as God. You guys just make assumptions in your head and say that is what Catholics believe. If you will hate our beliefs, at least hate our true beliefs. Dont hate what you have wrongly concocted in your brains and call them our beliefs.

[quote author=From_Guiriga]You sound hostile bro. But why don't you answer the question with reason?

If you cannot get around it then it's cool. But don't insult me because you don't have and answer.
[/quote]That is what I have to say.

And "grow up" is not an insult. It's an advice.

ijawkid: The apostles did not celebrate anything......don't tie them up to paganism.........

We celebrate the resurrection of Christ, just like the apostles did.

Call it Easter, passover, pascha, pasque etc...

What matters is the essence of what we do.

ijawkid: All what I wrote up there is the truth........

When last did you ever call the almighty God by his name??....

All I heaar from you guys is mary and Jesus........ona don forfeit the Father.........

Oh! So now we mention "Jesus?" I thought you said we only pray to Mary. You brain has just done a u-turn as usual.

Let me Pray for you that the cobwebs of hatred and envy may be removed from your eyes and heart:

In the name of the FATHER, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen...

Our FATHER...

Glory be to the FATHER, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.

FATHER, I pray for your son Ijawkid, that you may enlighten him with your truth now and always. Amen.

In the name of the FATHER and of the Son , and of the Holy Spirit.


And I am Catholic. Alleluia!

Bobbysworld28: @italo
Pls for starters I don't hate catholics. If u knw me I call myself a catholic. It is d Roman one dt is d cause of d misunderstanding. So leave d hate alone. Ok?
If u hv issues comprehending y nt gently ask instead of attacking. U will c dt I said dt it is wrong to ask ur pastor to pray to Jesus for u. Hw difficult can dt be 2 understand?
So instead of we learning d truth according as d master showed it u launch a tirade against me. Here I was thinking I was reasoning with an adult who was ready 2 share God's word. Italo whenever u r ready to rightly divide d word of truth, holla at me.
Peace

Obviously you cannot defend your heresies and fallacies. Hence, you device this means to back out without acknowledging your misinformation and ignorance on these issues.

Stop being deceptive. Nowhere have I said anything bad to you. I never even said you hate "Catholics" but "Catholicism."

When you were making all sorts of unfounded insinuations, you didnt think of running away then. Now that I'm pointing out the serious flaws in them you give this weak excuse to run away.

I will repeat my post. When you are ready, you can come and face up to your fallacies honestly. But then, most Protestants who do that end up becoming Catholic. I sense that you would rather run away with your lies/untruths/half-truths and remain who you are.

Bobbysworld28: Christ attended funerals often as a game changer. Remember Lazarus? D little girl he raised? He attended funerals & I hv. I don't like funerals bt I hv attended them.

Italo:[/b]Why are you telling blatant lies? Have you not heard that all liars shall perish? Is your hatred for Catholicism worth the loss of your salvation?

Jesus wasnt recorded in the Bible to attend any funeral. Jairus' daughter just died and Jesus rushed there immediately. Even her father was outside with Jesus when she died. How can it then be a funeral when even the father of the deceased was not there?

Lazarus had been buried four days before Jesus got there.

You attend funerals and burials which Jesus didnt do in the Bible.

So you are contradicting your own false doctrine.

[b]Bobbysworld28: 3. He gave apostles power to forgive sins bt it doesn't end there. He told them to make disciples of all nations. Now u who were once alienated from God r drawn to his fatherhood. His Holy Spirit now dwells in u and u hv no hinderance between u & God. U can't remain in ur former where u beg stones and inanimate objects to pray for u because greater is he dt is in u than he dt is in d world.

4.I hv prayed for ppl b4. I don't ask for prayer bt I'm very sure ppl pray for me. Its called intercession for one another. But ur greatest intercessor is the Holy Spirit as shown in Roman 8: 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Italo:[/b]See your earlier statement below:

[b]Bobbysworld28: Elsewhere he said whtever u ask d Father in my name...
Do a careful study & validate this 4 urself. Evn after he left, his disciples continued in dt fashion. Pls check all d epistles & c 4 urself.
Where on earth did u get d notion to pray through Jesus, to Jesus, through Mary, statues or even dead people? Fyi u cannot ask a Pastor to pray to Jesus 4 u. It is an insult to d new way established by d death, burial & resurrection of Jesus.
U nid 2 awake 2 d Fatherhood of God & learn to pray to God d Father in d name of Jesus. Dt is d established pattern for d heirs of salvation.

Italo:[/b]So when my Pastor prays for me it is an insult to the way established by God but when you pray for people, it is okay?

That is HYPOCRISY! Dont you agree?

[b]Bobbysworld28: Look at it this way, ur son instead of relating with u will always ask someone to help him tell u. Evn d littlest thing like good morning.
Italo y nt do a careful study & let us WORSHIP GOD IN TRUTH!

Italo: We Catholics dont ALWAYS ask people's intercessions. We talk to God directly far far more times than when we ask for intercessions. You are just coming to mindless conlusions.

Besides, is it wrong for my son to sometimes ask my wife or mother to talk to me on his behalf? Has this never happened in your family?

ijawkid: My brother..this people believe Jesus is the Father...and so they had to employ or create another mediator and high priest between man and The Father....so mary had to come into play.....


That is why they just can't do without mary or her moulded image.....catholics rather die than stop praying to mary.......the catholics have disobeyed Yahweh in all ways...first of all they shared Him(Yahweh,God the Father) into 3,project his son above God himself,hide his name so that sincere hearted persons would never know who God really is,and then they bring in mary...........sometimes I feel like I just can't bear with them any longer..other times I feel I should just engage them because I know some sincere ones who are fed up with idolatry will one day make a U-turn.......

Wrong! Everything you said was out of ignorance and hatred and envy.

Bobbysworld28: It amazes me when base issues like pray to whom or through whom is wht takes our time as christians. Jesus made an impact everywhere he went by performing diverse miracles. B4 he went away he said as d Father has sent me so I send u. How was he sent? Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

U cannot please d Father by praying through mary, to mary or whosoever because u r shortchanging urself & ascribing God's glory to someone else.

Just take a look at the bolded.

Why then do you also intercede for people, thereby shortchanging God?

Bobbysworld28: I tim 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

Italo there is such a thing as impartation by laying on of the hands. Ok? So wht exactly is ur point in bringing dt picture? R u trying to equate it with kneeling b4 statues and pictures?

You mean this picture?

Are you saying it is okay to kneel and pray before the Bible, it only becomes a sin when the kneeling and praying is before a statue or picture?

rotas: D only mediator btw God and man is Jesus christ.not mary.

Then why do you pray for other people, acting as a mediator between God and man?

rotas: in rome they worship asterte,jupital,semiremi,etc.they are idol worshipper.they killed 68million protestants in d dark ages.roman catholic church is an enemy of God.

Hatred and envy on display. Give us concrete evidence of your allegation.

ijawkid: Lol......do you guys say the hail mary in privy??

Even on the TV your pope could not do without reciting the hail mary.......I don't have to read ya minds,.....you guys have already shown us how u pray......

You have not been making good use of your eyes and ears then.

Hatred has impaired them, just like it did that of the Pharisses, making them to come up with flimsy and senseless accusations.

ijawkid: ..........

I know exactly what worship is that is why I know you guys worship idols.......

So what is worship?

ijawkid: I am not saying a mad man cannot start worshipping his bed...what I'm saying is when it happens we'll know if he has started worshipping his bed......

How will you know?

ijawkid: One who would claim to be worshipping God and can never do that without his bed is an idolater....one who would make small carvings of his bed,tie on his neck and always refer to his bed in prayers is an idolater.......you want more example??...remember the instances I've given is synonymous to what you guys do with the rosary and the graven image of mary......

You mentioned money abi??...we all can tell when money has become some ones or God.....

Your definition of worship keeps changing.

First only objects that were made for devotion could be worshiped.

Now money, which wasnt made for devotion, can be worshiped.

MY FRIEND, WHAT IS WORSHIP AND HOW CAN YOU DETERMINE WHO OR WHAT A PERSON WORSHIPS?

Bobbysworld28: Christ attended funerals often as a game changer. Remember Lazarus? D little girl he raised? He attended funerals & I hv. I don't like funerals bt I hv attended them.

Why are you telling blatant lies? Have you not heard that all liars shall perish? Is your hatred for Catholicism worth the loss of your salvation?

Jesus wasnt recorded in the Bible to attend any funeral. Jairus' daughter just died and Jesus rushed there immediately. Even her father was outside with Jesus when she died. How can it then be a funeral when even the father of the deceased was not there?

Lazarus had been buried four days before Jesus got there.

You attend funerals and burials which Jesus didnt do in the Bible.

So you are contradicting your own false doctrine.

Bobbysworld28: 3. He gave apostles power to forgive sins bt it doesn't end there. He told them to make disciples of all nations. Now u who were once alienated from God r drawn to his fatherhood. His Holy Spirit now dwells in u and u hv no hinderance between u & God. U can't remain in ur former where u beg stones and inanimate objects to pray for u because greater is he dt is in u than he dt is in d world.

4.I hv prayed for ppl b4. I don't ask for prayer bt I'm very sure ppl pray for me. Its called intercession for one another. But ur greatest intercessor is the Holy Spirit as shown in Roman 8: 26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

See your earlier statement below:

Bobbysworld28: Elsewhere he said whtever u ask d Father in my name...
Do a careful study & validate this 4 urself. Evn after he left, his disciples continued in dt fashion. Pls check all d epistles & c 4 urself.
Where on earth did u get d notion to pray through Jesus, to Jesus, through Mary, statues or even dead people? Fyi u cannot ask a Pastor to pray to Jesus 4 u. It is an insult to d new way established by d death, burial & resurrection of Jesus.
U nid 2 awake 2 d Fatherhood of God & learn to pray to God d Father in d name of Jesus. Dt is d established pattern for d heirs of salvation.

So when my Pastor prays for me it is an insult to the way established by God but when you pray for people, it is okay?

That is HYPOCRISY! Dont you agree?

Bobbysworld28: Look at it this way, ur son instead of relating with u will always ask someone to help him tell u. Evn d littlest thing like good morning.
Italo y nt do a careful study & let us WORSHIP GOD IN TRUTH!

We Catholics dont ALWAYS ask people's intercessions. We talk to God directly far far more times than when we ask for intercessions. You are just coming to mindless conlusions.

Besides, is it wrong for my son to sometimes ask my wife or mother to talk to me on his behalf? Has this never happened in your family?

You ask a simple question. They fill the whole thread with a million words and still refuse to answer the question.

Mart d dart: your powers of evaluation needs a little more work, don't they...when someone says "rather" it means the introduction of an idea that is different from the stated one....Jesus used rather because he did not agree that the woman should exult his mother, when she should be exulting God and obey his words

Then I ask again:

Also, Mary says, in the book of Luke, "all generations shall call me BLESSED." The Angel said to Mary: "Hail, highly favoured! "So do you think that Jesus was contradicting those statements and also contradicting God's commandment that he should honour his mother?

Mart d dart: You know the catholic church is the only and true church of God?, you don't say?...So does that mean non-catholics should kneel before statues and soil our faith in God's word, No, thank you...
PS i still stand by my opinion, Peter was the rock on which Christ's church was established, YES...but that church wasn't the catholic church and Peter definitely wasn't a pope.

For the third time I ask:

I asked and you didnt tell me: You mean there are many Christian Churches worldwide? Which among these was the "CHURCH" (SINGULAR) that Jesus said he would build on "...Peter...this rock..?"

Why are you scared to answer this question honestly?

Enigma: Some have tried to point out the difference between The Christian Church or catholic Church on the one hand and the Roman Catholic Church on the other.

That difference is reflected in the description of the catholic Church below --- granted its last line or so is inflammatory.

Westminster Confession of Faith

Why should we believe and accept the description of the Catholic Church rendered by "The Westminster Confession of Faith" when the whole world knows that the Anglican Church and its "Westminster Confession of Faith" only came about because King Henry VIII wanted to keep sleeping with Anne Boleyn openly when she wasnt his wife?

Mart d dart: Luke 11:27 "As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave birth and nursed you"
28 He replied, "rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it"
If this doesn't show you, I wonder what will

How in God's name does this translate to: "praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong."

You just want to twist the words of scripture and force them to say what you want they to say, but they wont.

Also, Mary says, in the book of Luke, "all generations shall call me BLESSED." So do you think that Jesus was contradicting that statement and also contradicting God's commandment that he should honour his mother?

Mart d dart: The articles in the links were written with good command of the english language...thats the only good thing about them, the one on exulting or praising mary is espiecially laughable, enough said
the links I posted will serve as a rep for affirmation, I didn't post up articles, I posted argument points followed closely with multiple verses from the bible(not catholic edition)..if I wanted an article I would have easily asked for it(there are lots of those on the internet)
Point of reference for posting of future links: Discussion points not lengthy and pointless articles

But you have not been able to refute anything in the links I posted.

Mart d dart: Change doesn't just cut it except it's positive change

"The only church that can trace it's record to Jesus Christ" was that before or after the romans who are the founders of the catholic faith gave orders for him to be cruxified and tried to kill all the apostles and believers who bore witness to his ressurection
funny you should mention the "bible" been brought into existence by the catholics, have you even bothered to research why the catholics altered the bible from its original state, refused the bible from being translated into other languages other than Latin...speaking of which, have you read the "catholic version" of the bible, compare the ten commandments in that version with original text version

You have very poor and disgraceful (I'm sorry to say) knowledge of Christian history.

Tell us when the Romans founded the Catholic Church - with evidence.

Tell us when the Bible came about and how it was in its "original state", and tell us when the Catholics altered it by creating the "Catholic version."

Mart d dart: As regarding the issue concerning the church...He was refering to the Catholic Church as "the Church" this was very wrong, it shows bias which should not be allowed to take centre stage on this thread

So as we KNOW The Catholic Church to be the one true Church, we shouldnt proclaim it so because we want other people will call it "bias?"

I asked and you didnt tell me: You mean there are many Christian Churches worldwide? Which among these was the "CHURCH" (SINGULAR) that Jesus said he would build on "...Peter...this rock..?"