₦airaland Forum

Mart d dart: *going through the links*...did you actually read the verse?-the woman tried to "bless/praise" the womb that bore Jesus but He cut her short

I have read that verse about 100 times. I still cant find the part of it that says "praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong."

Can you show me that part?

Also, Mary says, in the book of Luke, "all generations shall call me BLESSED." So do you think that Jesus was contradicting that statement and also contradicting God's commandment that he should honour his mother?

Mart d dart: A pure case of misconception, the Op and I have nothing against catholics, only their doctrines...
secondly, please stop refering to the catholic church as "The church" seeing as they are not the only Christian Church worldwide thirdly, you said something about the devil using people to tarnish the catholic image: the funny thing is: it goes both ways, the devil could actually be using the catholics and their "doctrines" to move other christians from the path of God
Last of all, you said you did some "research" seeing as I have shared mine with you, could you please post this research for all to see?

You mean there are many Christian Churches worldwide? Which among these was the "CHURCH" (SINGULAR) that Jesus said he would build on "...Peter...this rock..?"

Mart d dart: I'm happy you chose a civilized avenue to let your views known...

On "Honouring" Mary
www.gotquestions.org/worship-saints-mary.html

Here's a link that tells why there is nothing wrong with honoring the mother of Jesus. http://www.cmri.org/94prog9.htm

Mart d dart: On Peter being Pope and why the title " Pope" was not dictated by the Bible
www.bible.ca/cath-peter=pope.htm

Here's a link that shows that Peter was the first pope. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PETPOPE.HTM

Mart d dart: here's an overview of some of the teachings that are not in accordance with the bible
www.bible.ca/cath-overview-false-teaching.htm

Here are links that show that NO Catholic teaching is contrary to scripture. www.biblechristiansociety.com www.scripturecatholic.com

Mart d dart: For the record, I'm not the initiator of this thread but I believe I'll try my best to treat your views with consideration

P.S my point with Romans being spear heads of "Christianity" stems from them trying over the centuries to adulterate Christianity by inducing teachings that are not in compliance with the Gospel

praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong, read 1 Timothy 2: 5

And you are yet to prove that the Catholic Church adulterated Chistianity.

That verse you quoted doesnt say that "praying to Mary to intercede for you is wrong." However, I understand that that is what you want to force the verse to say.

Segeggs: @italo and @tobechi.

people only REST on their bed to say a prayer simply because they are about going to bed or just woke up from sleep. Such a prayer is done without any respect for the bed, just like sitting on chair while praying.

Are you saying that when you respect something, kneel and pray before it, you are worshiping that thing? The picture below seems to show people who respect the Bible, kneel and pray before it. Are they worshiping the Bible?

And are you saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE that there are those who worship their beds?

Bobbysworld28: Italo
U r a professed christian right? U knw wht dt means? It literally means christ-like. Dt means in words actions & deeds u should behave like Jesus Christ.
Dt established, hw did Jesus teach to pray & how did he pray? When he was asked he said pray in this manner: Our Father who art in heaven... Did u c dat? Who was d prayer addresed to?

1. Christ said "let the dead bury the dead." He wasnt recorded to have participated in any funeral. Have you participated in a funeral before?

2. The "Our Father" is addressed to God The Father. I dont see the name "Jesus" there. Why then do you address your prayers to Jesus?

Bobbysworld28: Elsewhere he said whtever u ask d Father in my name...
Do a careful study & validate this 4 urself. Evn after he left, his disciples continued in dt fashion. Pls check all d epistles & c 4 urself.
Where on earth did u get d notion to pray through Jesus, to Jesus, through Mary, statues or even dead people? Fyi u cannot ask a Pastor to pray to Jesus 4 u. It is an insult to d new way established by d death, burial & resurrection of Jesus.
U nid 2 awake 2 d Fatherhood of God & learn to pray to God d Father in d name of Jesus. Dt is d established pattern for d heirs of salvation.

1. Jesus gave men (the apostles) power to forgive sins. How can men forgive sins without praying for the sinners (other men)?

2. Have you never prayed for anybody or asked anybody to pray for you? Please answer honestly, God bless you as you do so.

Bobbysworld28: @italo
I said no because the person is using d bed as support. He/she might as well be seated or even lying down.
In d op's example the bed serves as a rest to pray.

How do you know that the person is ONLY using it as a support.

Is it impossible that the person is also worshiping the bed in addition to using it as support?

Is that impossible?

Please answer honestly.

ijawkid: Hehehe..you and amanda recites the hail mary day in day out......which God do you think would accept that kind of prayer??....the Father of Jesus??.....smh!!!!......

We have eyes and ears ....so we see and hear who you guys pray to.......we aint kids you know.....

How do you know she recites it without her telling you? Are you God who reads the human mind?

ijawkid: Because the bed is where the person sleeps.............

Beds are made for sleeping and not relics or objects of devotion...

I can't believe you are asking this mumu foolish questions......

I have asked you to compare your pattern of prayer to that of Jesus,...that simple experiment would show who you are really worshipping or praying to..........

Can you just do that??

You think objects that were made for devotion are the only things that can be worshiped? Money is made for buying and selling but some people worship it. Snakes were not made for worship but there are those who worship them.

So you see that it is not my question but your answer that is a mumu answer. From your answer, nobody worships money because it wasnt made for worship.

You do not know what "worship" means or how to determine 'who worships what' thats why you keep accusing anybody you like of worshiping anything you like.

[quote author=ijawkid]You still have not told us how d apostles celebrated Christ ressurection....by roasting fish abi??......

Lie lie!!!!!.......

Oh!!!....and they forgot to make it an annual festival...you see your life....

Your easter matters to its pagan origin and not Christ.......because Christ did not institute easter........



We celebrate the resurrection of Christ, just like the apostles did.

Call it Easter, passover, pascha, pasque etc...

What matters is the essence of what we do.

We celebrate the resurrection of Christ, just like the apostles did.

Call it Easter, passover, pascha, pasque etc...

What matters is the essence of what we do.

truthislight: "Eternal" has nothing to do with indefinit past or "without beginning".

Yes Jesus is eternal father with a beginning of the father hood, but without ending.

Can you try using a dictionary please, to confirm the word "eternal".
Thanks you.

Okay, let me take your own advice.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl]
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal ): eternal life.

http://www.freedictionary.org/?Query=eternal Eternal \E*ter"nal\, a. [F. ['e]ternel, L. aeternalis, fr.
aeternus. See Etern.]
1. Without beginning or end of existence; always existing.
[1913 Webster]

The eternal God is thy refuge. --Deut.
xxxiii. 27.
[1913 Webster]

And my Jesus is the ETERNAL FATHER. Alleluia!

Bobbysworld28: Op I must add, dt posture that is adopted in prayer doesn't tell anything abt d content of ur prayer. If u adopt dt posture & u r addressing ur prayer to d bed, then u r praying to d bed. When u make it d object of ur worship & affection then u r worshipping d bed

So it is who you are addressing your prayer to that you worship, right thank you.

If I stand in front of a Pastor and ask him to pray for me to Jesus, who am i worshiping?

If I stand in my room and ask Mary to pray for me to Jesus, who am I worshiping?

If I stand in front of a Marian statue and ask Mary to pray for me to Jesus, who am I worshiping?

ijawkid: have u ever in your life prayed without reciting the hail Mary ?...the actual truth is u do not pray to the Father...you pray to a goddess.....



iI want u to tell me if your prayers sound alike that of Jesus...

How can you tell who amanda2013 prays to?

Are you God who can enter the human mind and read it?

ijawkid: you are deluded for asking jejune questions...asking me to tell you if one who is resting on his bed is really praying to the Father......


is your carved God forsaking Mary image your bed you lie on?.....



or do we wear our beds on our neck,hang them in our places of worship....



you are no different from a Buddhist bro....

My question is "how can you tell that the person is not worshiping the bed?"

deebrain: Very very poor and terrible sight u have. The starter of the thread (i wont state names) mentioned in the first page that the pope is "the representative of jesus christ" which sparked off an issue since as some of u are now acknowledging that we are all holy people SO THERE IS NOTHING LIKE A SINGULAR REPRESENTATIVE OF JESUS-WE ARE ALL REPRESENTATIVES. Someone now talked of the pope as "our holy father" which is d title of reference given to God now given to d pope.

"Lord," "Father," "Bridegroom" etc...(and there are many more) These are all titles of reference given to God.Are you still standing by this statement of yours?

deebrain: When u give an expression, attention, or activity u would normally give to God to something else, u have made that thing God. Start reading from the begining of the thread.

If so, why do you ascribe these titles to men?

deebrain: Unless u call the pope "our holy father" because of mere courtesy because of his status as head of a church, calling him "our holy father" because to u, u think he is more holier than u and is now yr mediator to God-IS WORSHIPING HIM AS GOD (jesus christ).

How do you know that I believe the Holy Father is holier than me and that I worship him as God? Show me where I or any other Catholic has ever said that the Pope is holier than anybody else and we worship him as God. You guys just make assumptions in your head and say that is what Catholics believe. If you will hate our beliefs, at least hate our true beliefs. Dont hate what you have wrongly concocted in your brains and call them our beliefs.

deebrain: U people are hypocrites! Why then did members of the catholic church and CAN denounce Rev. King (irrespective of his personality)for giving a title "his holiness" among his names? Since u now say there is nothing wrong with d pope bearing it? What makes the pope more different than any global general overseer?

Show me evidence of Catholics denouncing Rev. King for calling himself "His Holiness."

And bear in mind that what individual Catholics say may not be the official Church position.

Freksy: You still have the mind to repeat this lie? As you lie that nobody has said anything about the origin of Easter, does that not imply you probably have lied too regarding other things you've said about Easter? Have a quick flip through the pages, and response accordingly to what you see regarding its origin. Again, lets see how sincere you are: please type the words 'Easter egg' and 'easter bunny' in your device's dictionary and tell us what you see. That will probably and publicly show you've omitted a lot of things in your list of Easter's activities for obvious reasons.

Are you trying to indirectly tell me you don't celebrate Easter? As a bible scholar i am sure you know how the name "Passover" came about. I am sure too you know why what Jesus instituted at Luke 22:19 is called "the Lord's Supper" KJV. May you, plea.....se ask italo to tell us why their celebration of Jesus' resurrection is called 'Easter'? I believe some curious-minded ones too would be interested in knowing this from the guy whom you say appears to be a celebrant of Easter. Your failure to ask, and italo failing to response to you will show that you guys know the truth about its root, but can't dare to say it out. I heard you saying case close when we have just started.

"The exact origins of this religious feast day's NAME are unknown. Some sources claim the word Easter is derived from Eostre, a Teutonic goddess of spring and fertility. Other accounts trace Easter to the Latin term hebdomada alba, or white week, an ancient reference to Easter week and the white clothing donned by people who were baptized during that time. Through a translation error, the term later appeared as esostarum in Old High German, which eventually became Easter in English. In Spanish, Easter is known as Pascua; in French, Paques. These words are derived from the Greek and Latin Pascha or Pasch, for Passover. Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection occurred after he went to Jerusalem to celebrate Passover (or Pesach in Hebrew), the Jewish festival commemorating the ancient Israelites' exodus from slavery in Egypt. Pascha eventually came to mean Easter."

http://www.history.com/topics/history-of-easter

ijawkid: only one who just came out from a beer parlor wuld assume that the verse u quoted is the first account of Easter....i can now see that after that instance the apostles suffered from amnesia and forgot about Easter,waiting for the Catholics to re-institute it....keep dreaming bro....

How do you know the apostles forgot about Easter?

Is that what God told you?

Mart d dart: Lol...I've indeed answered that question. Plus, I never said I was God..so please be "honourable enough" to actually read previous posts before commenting

I have read the posts several times. I dont see anywhere you answered the question: "who made the bible the only foot-hold that modern christians have?"

If you cannot answer, we will simply take it as your own opinion.

Enigma: We already had "the Bible" waaaaaaay before the 4th century; Christians who were mostly not Roman Catholics had already seen to that.

So when this Bible of yours come about and who were these "christians" that saw to it?

truthislight: I had been reading but this got me wandering your explanations and meaning of the word " Eternal" father.



Ah! The above is incorrect > "Eternal".

Eternal = without ceasing, without an end, lasting forever, not changing.

eternal is futuristic.
Eg. Human will be given eternal life(does not mean that we had existed indefinitely in the past without beginning) means that hence, there will be no ending to such human life).

Please, teach the truth and not fraud.

What are you trying to say? That Jesus is not The Eternal Father? Who was Isaiah talking about then?

truthislight: of what value are those ^ questions?

Are you playing games?

Does the bible cover such info?

How does those questions explain your trinity?

Smh for you. :

There are some of your fellow anti-Catholics who criticized Catholics for believing things that cannot be fully understood by humans. These questions were put to them so that they can fully explain God to us. If you believe as they do, please tell me, I have even more questions about God for you.

ijawkid: oya tell me how you know you are praying to the Father just as JESUS did?...the scriptures do have d words of Jesus' prayer....Jesus prayed directly to the Father .....we know how u guys pray...the last time iI checked the hail Mary mantra was part of your devotionals..and you never do that without the accompaniment of graven images,the rosary and also the cross or what ever idols you have around....



when you start praying like Jesus iI will know....for now you are no different from a Buddhist...

I see no reason why you are scared to answer the simple question I asked, honestly.

I know that you are a hypocrite but I didnt know it was this bad.

How can you tell that the person kneeling and bowing before his bed and praying is not worshiping the bed?

ijawkid: so that means iI should start calling you with title HOLY?



HOLY ubenedictus...lol...



its like saying that because the scriptures says ye are gods,i should then start calling u god ubenedictus....


besides why should the pope be called your Father?..did he in anyway sire you?....

Are you saying Christians are not "holy ones?"

ijawkid: literally speaking Abraham was a Father...he gave birth to a whole generation...your pope is just an imperfect celibate....Jesus says call no one Father....do u guys have dust in your ears?...

I dont get you. Can we call men "Father" or can we not?

ijawkid: only God deserves that title....Jesus even would refuse such titles..but as usual your proud popes would gladly accept it....

But Jesus was called "Eternal Father" in Isaiah 9:6, even though he was celibate. Show me where he refused the title.

Also, you havent shown me where God said "Holy Father is a title only reserved for him." Or were you just lying as usual?

Was Father Abraham "Holy Father Abraham" or "Sinful Father Abraham?"

ijawkid: can you please define who an idol worshiper is?

One that ascribes divinity to anything other than God and worships it.

ijawkid: after that please tell me if Catholics are nt idol worshipers .....

We are not.

ijawkid: dead meat worshippers...

Why do you say so?

Bobbysworld28: Italo, I answered. U no c am?

Why do you say "no," one who kneels, bows and prays before his bed is not worshiping it?

How do you know that?

Boomark: Am beginning to doubt your sincerity.

1Cor 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father. Of whom are all things,...

Did you not understand the english?

Ijawkid quoted this:

Read hebrews 2:11-13
New Living Translation (©2007)
11..So now Jesus and the ones he
makes holy have the same Father.
That is why Jesus is not ashamed
to call them his brothers and
sisters.
12..For he said to God, "I will
proclaim
your name to my brothers and
sisters. I will praise you among
your assembled people."
13..He also said, "I will put my trust
in him," that is, "I and the children
God has given me."

and asked you "do you believe that we and Jesus share the same Father"? Your reply is "this is a tricky question. Jesus is the begotten son of God."

Do you not understand the English in v11? Or has the spirit of delusion already taken over?

Who gave Christ his children? If these are his eternal children(those who will inherit eternal life), is the prophesy not in tune with him being eternal father?

Good teacher, who then is the "Eternal Father" that Isaiah talked about in Isaiah 9:6? Is it "The Father" or "The Son"?

ijawkid: hehehe .....wayo boy....did Jesus use graven images in worship'? did he pray with prayer beads...?....you guys walk up to images to pray and you are here dribbling yourself

You havent answered my question even though I have answered yours which you asked after I asked you mine.

Now how can you tell that the person is not worshiping his bed?

Why are you scared to give an honest Christian answer to this question.

@ Tobechi, are you seeing what I told you about asking them questions in the other thread?

The ones that answer honestly become Catholic, the rest refuse to answer even the most simple question honestly.

deebrain: When u give an expression, attention, or activity u would normally give to God to something else, u have made that thing God. Start reading from the begining of the thread.

In the Bible, God is known as the "Bridegroom" of his "bride," Israel.

According to you, using the expression "bridegroom" to describe men who are getting married means making them God.

God is referred to as "Lord" so using that expression for a judge in a law court means making him/her God.

Very very poor and wrong thinking.


I have read the thread from the beginning and I havent seen anyone that has made the Pope God. Show me who.

peteregwu: i undestand u now, just like d day i was preaching to a weed/cigrette smoker, he told me that he cant find where the bible condemns smoking...so to him smoking is righteousness before God. Isaiah 5:20 KJV. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

well, am not surprised because the bible prophecied that a time is coming when many will not like to here sound doctrine from the bible all they want to here is that the Lord will bless them and give them money, it does not matter their evil an wickedness. today homosexuals and lesbians are also claiming thd same thing, that God approves their status an their is nothing wrong with gay marriage.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJV
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Are you saying God never said "its an abomination to pray with candles or anything?"

Why then do you believe that? Isnt it pagan to hold_on to teaching that are not biblical anymore?

Reyginus: italo, before coming up to any conclusion, you should have followed the discourse from the basis.
I wish I'm on pc.
This was how it went.
It began with his statement on what the final authority is. According to him, following ubenedictus argument, the word of God is the final authority which came to us through scripture and tradition. I posited that since the bible does contain the word of God, the scriptures and tradition, it is the final authority. He replied no, that it is not. I inquired if the bible is the word, he replied yes. That's the contradiction I've been trying to understand.
The bible cannot contain the word of God as ubenedictus said, 'the scriptures and traditions' and yet, not the final authority. Do you how that is possible?

The Bible itself is only a product of Sacred (Church) Tradition. Nowhere does Sacred Scripture mention it...or that anything ;like it should be made or compiled.

God's word comes to us through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Both are interpreted to us by the Church.

How then can the Bible which only came about in the 4th century be the final authority?

What then, was the final authority in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries?

deebrain: Im moved to call u a baby chicken but i would restrain myself. Did u actually read what i posted before talking? If u, on yr own, listed mary etc that u are also known to worship these things-is that not a pointer that something is wrong with u people? I did not even mention anything regarding those things-its the pope issue im focussed on. I will not restrain myself to say u are as blind as a bat because I COMMENDED THE POPE FOR HIS GESTURES AND HUMILITY TO DATE-HE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT A CHURCH LEADER SHOULD BE LIKE. He is a good man BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM GOD!

...And who has made him God?

peteregwu: my God, so u you know this? you are realy missing here. its an abomination to pray with candles or anything. we are commanded to pray in the name of Jesus. thats the only right we are giving as christians. Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
."That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

na only Jesus o, abeg, any other thing is idolatory. remember exodus 20, we have been warned...and failure to heed to this warning is dissobedience, and God will not tak lighly on the day of gudgement, except we repent. the desciples never used idol, or anything. they all did exploit in the name of Jesus. they followed th same teachings an ways of Christ.

I cant find where God says "its an abomination to pray with candles or anything." Can you show me?