₦airaland Forum

hahn:
Wait. I need to put on the gen

You're welcome to put on the gen.

But to be frank, I see no reason arguing with you. What you falsely accuse the Church of doing to African beliefs (while pretending to be in defence of African beliefs), is precisely what you would do if you could.

@ hahn, I don't see much reason to discuss with you. You don't actually want to see African culture/beliefs defended.

You actually want to see it overhauled. You just pretended to be in defence of African beliefs to attack the Church.

hahn:
As an atheist, I don't believe in any form of a supreme entity especially one that is so good at playing hide and seek whether it is of a European or African or Martian origin.

From where I sit, you guys are all practicing rubbish and it's high time you stop criticizing each other and focus on what really matters. The human race.

But I do agree that as Africans we are better at practising and promoting our own beliefs rather than imitating and adopting another race's ideology and placing it over our own. This has stumped our intellectual growth and has also robbed us of our right to our identity

And you still haven't answered my question.

Jesus Christ was born in Israel but he came and died for all.

He is God the Son who created the world. The true God.

It happens that many cultures have an imperfect understanding of this supreme God and his ways.

The Church comes to show all peoples the true God and his ways. To perfect what is imperfect about them, including Israel.

Where the African culture teaches respect for elders, the Church says Yes. What do Atheists say? Many would care.

Where the African Culture emphasizes a thriving communal life, the Church says Yes. Many Atheists would say no need.

Where the African Culture says kill all twins, the Church says no.

Where the culture says Kings should be buried with 7 heads, the Church says no.

This is not a destruction of culture, it is rather an enhancement and improvement of the African culture.

plaetton:
Lol.
He is a defender of the faith, nothing more.

However, his train has already left the station, and he is not even aware of it.

In other words, the Pope is going around the world, apologizing, healing old wounds, and correcting misconceptions of faith.
Italo should get behind his leader, and stop spinning half truths.

And this is the problem, as I have always cried out, with Africans and the foriegn religions they consume. They barely understand the precepts and history of the religions they consume. They overfeed themselves with unhealthy parts of their tokumbo religions.

Italo, for example is a consumer of Catholic of Catholic doctrines.
The Pope, on the other hand, is the soveriegn head or CEO of the institution that fabricate the doctrines.

I am guessing that the Pope should know much more about his product specs, the nutritional contents and values, the product shelf life, the product updates and product recalls, than Italo, who is just happy, over-fed consumer.

What Pope francis is doing right now is the a product recall.
Bad, defective products have been in the Market for too long and have caused far too much damage,and happy, ill-informed consumers like Italo have been overdosing themselves on a defective product.

If you hadn't lied that Igbo Catholics despise everything about their tradition, even breaking kola, maybe someone could have been tempted to think that this your epistle is true.

hahn:
Well, you didn't answer my question.

Let me speak for myself. You can ask the other guys what they think.

Apparently, man has tried as much as we can to explain the existence of life, our purpose, reasons for failure and also, out of greed, the possibility of an afterlife. African religions are also born from this quest for an explanation for what we don't understand. Personally though, I feel a lot of our beliefs need an overhaul and even better we need to put them aside and come up with a constitution that promotes equality, justice etc in our society.

That said, I feel Africans have been robbed of their right to develop our beliefs. Christians don't have a right to say that Africans are wrong by worshiping idols because worshiping the cross is also a form of idol worship.

By the way, atheists are only here to tell you guys that you are all practicing rubbish.

So you don't really want African religion to be defended.

You're just pretending...to attack the Church.

Okay.

Updated Novena Schedule:

1st - Nigeria
2nd - Peppyluv02 (for her mum)
10th - Double27
11th - Debbie13th - MariaGoretti
15th - Rich4god
16th - MarvellousGod
20th - FrancisTony
21st - Aizenosa
23rd - Sal C
26th - HurricaneChris
27th - Syncan
28th - Deracathy (for Batch B corpers' safety and success)
31st - Kamsified

hahn:
I tire o. Italo hasn't made any valid point so far

I have pointed out that the Pope was only reiterating Catholic teaching.

hahn:
Lol. Hahn is actually my surname.

Maybe we should forward the surname to the judge of who is or isn't proud to be African.

Ifeness, pronounce judgement.

hahn:
And I'm referring to official church practice. It is one thing to preach and it is another thing entirely to act. So far, Christians, especially African Christians, have acted in ways that put the culture of Israel above theirs. Accepting Jesus as lord and personal savior alone aids in brainwashing the minds of the people and by threatening us with hell fire they only prove just how barbaric their, and your, god is. Why should I even believe that someone in a far away land and a far away time died for my sins when it is obvious that every man is responsible for his own destiny.

Why should we worship Yahweh and his cohorts when our culture is filled with our own heroes and our own version of a supreme god. And you claim this type of concept promotes our culture?

Your proof, at best, is hypocritical.

Let us test who is better at promoting our culture between you and the Catholic Church.

The Church says that there is some truth in our African religions but the have an imperfect view of the Supreme God.

What do you and other Atheists say about African religions?

ifeness:
The Pope is the head of the most corrupt organization who were involved in destroying your culture and tradition. Have you ever wondered why they burnt books and history of other cultures? The Church or whatever you call it was strongly behind African Slavery. Have you ever heard of Good Ship Jesus and Our Mother Mary ships?

If you were pro-African you wouldn't try to defend an European figure against yours,especially when it comes to your culture.

Mere allegations. No substance, no proof.

I'm not defending any figure against mine...since the Church is not against my culture in the first place.

ifeness:
Ife is my name so.... what are you one about?

I see. "Ness" is your Yoruba middle name.

Don't forget your the one who ignorantly said my name shows I'm not proud to be African.

It is Atheists like Ifeness, Plaetton, Hahn, Johnydon22 that are proudly bearing African names and promoting the Culture.

Continue showing everyone how 'intelligent' you are.

plaetton:
Again, You lie.

What is Bad about breaking kolanut, so much so that Igbo Catholics despise it?

I'm Catholic and half Igbo. We break kolanuts.

Who is lying between you and i?

hahn:
And he doesn't even know that you are a lady

I'm a guy.

plaetton:
Oh really,
Since when?
And which Nigeria are in?

The church, led by the MOTHER CHURCH herself, has been in the business of anhialation of cultures for 2 millenia.
Africa and South America has been her worst affected victims.

There is a reason why they call South America Latin America. I guess you haven't figured that out yet.

Mere allegations. No substance.

plaetton:
Igbo Catholics shun and despise all anything related to Igbo culture and traditions.

Something as simple as breaking kolanut, a traditional symbol of the bonds of kinship, truth and harmony, are shunned and despised by Catholics.

Is that an unrelated coincident or a misguided overzealousness on the part Igbo Catholics?

That is just one simple example.

Everytime you're desperate to demonize the Church, you have to come up with blatant lies like this.

Every Igbo Catholic getting married does Igbo Traditional wedding and the Church/laity encourages/values it a lot.

You should have outgrown these petty lies by now.

plaetton:
The point here, italo ( kneejerk defender of everything Catholic), is that your Papi is way ahead of you in terms of humility, being apologetic and contrite about the cultural genocides that is big and undeniable part of Church history.
There is nothing to defend here.
Your Pope is not defending anything, and neither is he asking you to defend the indefencable by weaving a distorted facts of history.

Follow your leader.
Embrace truth, and when necessary, apologize.
That is the Path of honour.

My Pope is defending something - The good in indigenous culture, just like he learnt from the Catholic Church.

This is not to say that Christians haven't done good or bad to indigenous peoples, but official Church teaching has always been that the good in all cultures should be promoted...i have given proof of that...but you refuse to read and come out of ignorance.

atlwireles:
Italo, I have to thank you for the great work you do on this forum. God bless you.

Thanks. God bless you too.

ifeness:
That's true. There is beauty in African arts but unfortunately rendered demonic by the same Pope and xtian association. All you can see on TV is hungry Africans begging for food which is unfair. Someone is trying hard to make our cultures and image less attractive. Hence we have victims like italo shunning anything Pro-African.

You're still making ignorant assumptions about me and the Church.

It seems like in your bitterness, you're just desperate to criticize the Church for something...even if it doesn't make sense.

I don't shun anything pro-African...and the Pope doesn't render African art 'demonic.'

hahn:
I don't believe he needs to tells us that. If Christianity hadn't come and replaced our beliefs with theirs there would be no need for him to point out something that obvious. When the first Christians came to Africa, they did everything they could to replace our beliefs with theirs.

I'm not arguing about what individual Christians did or didn't do.

I'm talking of official Church teaching: it promotes what is good in indigenous culture...and I've given proof.

hahn:
No, it doesn't.

Christianity has in no way assisted in enabling us respect and defend our culture. Christians are actually thought to ignore their culture and adopt the culture of Israel

I have given you an official Vatican document promoting indigenous cultures.

It's not my fault if you choose not to read and remain ignorant.

ifeness:
Starting from his name,he is obviously not proud to be African

"Italo" is short for my Edo name "Italome."

Avoid ignorant assumptions.

Now tell me if Ifeness, Plaetton, Hahn, Johnydon22, etc are African names...since that is how you were taught to know who is proud to be African or not.

ifeness:
Give me examples of what is good in your culture you are holding unto?

Respect for elders, regard for family etc

Cc hahn.

Ubenedictus:
thank God for your success story, I guess we will soon be eating marriage rice and chicken.

If you don't mind my asking what tribe are you abt to marry into.

Thanks.

Igbo. I'm half Edo, half Igbo.

Aizenosa:
Big congrats to Oga Italo, mehn chicken is on the way ooo. Many more and more testimonies shall be urs and ours through Christ our Lord. Amen

Amen. Sorry that list is an old list.

@plaetton, hahn and ifeness...

Please read about the Catholic view of the various indigenous cultures:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_cti_1988_fede-inculturazione_en.html

Pope Francis taught nothing new.

He told them to hold on to what is good in their culture.

plaetton:
While addressing groups of people of South American descent in Phillidelphia the other day, the Pope urged them to always be proud of their cultures, heritage and identity,.. And always respect and defend it.
My big questions are :
Does it apply to Africans as well?
Aside from, perhaps, Beloved Desmond Tutu, How many other African priests, Catholic or other, can and will say the same to his African brothers and sisters?

hahn:
Really? Since Christianity came in to Africa, we have all but abandoned our own culture. Christianity in no way preaches about putting your culture first.

Spot the difference.

What you're talking about is not the topic of discussion.

You can open another thread.

plappville:
Was Judas made to lead the other disciples? Of course Jesus knew Judas right from day one. There is nothing wrong in anyone to come to God. The house of God is open for all. The issue here is. "Making a gay lead the service" gay pastor will see everything wrong to preach against gay. Infact. He will encourage it.

What is "gay?"

KingEbukasBlog:
@italo

They failed to notice that the argument was lost when you evidently pointed out that celebs by Facebook fans and reputable media organisations can be biased especially when pushing a certain agenda . E.g AIT against Buhari during the election period .

You did hurt their "intellectual hubris" and they are shamelessly trying to "prove" that the facts are wrong

@menesheh: I guess atheists give special definitions to words - "I am here to learn "

Pffft

That is why weigraf has been keen on attacking my person since he cannot provide answers to my points...and he is too dishonest to admit what the whole world knows: that celebs buy social media followers; media houses can be biased (e.g AIT)and major organizations falsify/manipulate data (e.g Volkswagen).

MarvellousGod:
@ Italo , Good to hear.. God makes all things possible. . God that has begun the good work will see it to completion and also grant you a happy home, Amen.


Btw, I chose 16th, not 26th. .

God bless us all...

Amen. Thanks.

The correction is noted and effected.

SalC:
@italo, thanks for volunteering.


And congrats and God's favour in your marriage stuff.

Amen. Thanks.

peppyluv02:
Pls can we set October 1st aside for Nigeria?
And I choose 2nd,for my mum. Thanks.

Happy married life in advance.

Thanks.

Updated Novena Schedule:

1st - Nigeria
2nd - Peppyluv02 (for her mum)
13th - MariaGoretti
15th - Rich4god
16th - MarvellousGod
20th - FrancisTony
23rd - Sal C
27th - Syncan
28th - Deracathy (for Batch B corpers' safety and success)
31st - Kamsified

While we countdown to the beginning of our Novena, I wish to share a testimony from our May devotion.

I told you that I was travelling to Lagos to meet my girlfriend's mum to ask her hand in marriage. It was one of my intentions that the Lord should grant me favour.

I was well received. The man they swore would resist (on tribal sentiments)...what did he say?

"It's okay...as long as he's a good person. Let's just follow it up with prayer."

We are about to go to marriage class.

Please continue to pray for me.

FrancisTony:
I choose 20th and I hope my goodnews land before, then.

Noted.

May God look favourably on your petition.

However, remember that this devotion is an opportunity to connect ourselves to God via prayer, good works and avoidance of sin. Not just for the month...but forever.

May God give us the grace to seek first the kingdom...and everything else shall be added.