₦airaland Forum

Optimall:
How do you forgive someone you hate their skin color or even think of forgiving them or listening to them?
This is what I'm saying.
Jesus cares about humans!

Jesus is our intercessor.

Direct your fight to Jesus the intercessor then.

He's the one who told his apostles that they could forgive or retain sins.

Optimall:
Oya ask your priest to confess to you
Abi is he not a human being that sins?
Remember ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!

Priests go to confession too.

Optimall:
No whose sins WHO have forgiven??
The president of VATican? Oops his HOLINESS?

Hahaha!
Politics inside church Jehovah abhor that like Sugar!
Or is it RAcism?
No exactly what makes Roman Catholic Holy?

How has the topic changed to racism or holiness? This is the mark of someone uninterested in truth or learning.

You said only Jesus can forgive, not priests.

Jesus doesn't think so. Read again:

John 20:23:

Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Optimall:
That is ee. Sometimes I wonder if there are people inside that church....

Yes there are people there.

And they have read John 20:23:

Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Do you read that in your church shop?

benjibabs:
Look at the verses below:

King James Bible - Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die the day they ate the fruit? Did the bible lie?

King James Bible - Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

Did the bible lie since Jesus said that God is the God of the living?

Genesis talking about spiritual death.

Hebrews talking about earthly physical death.

Jesus talking about spiritual life.

Believers never die...meaning spiritual/eternal life never ends.

So Mary and the saints are spiritually alive.

Can the spiritually alive hear prayers on earth?

I say yes.

If you say no, how does God and the Angels hear prayers? Are they physical?

benjibabs:
What different translations omit or add is a different story and there are acceptable explanations for their actions.

Back to the issue at hand, even in the translation you provided, the discussion is all around and in relation to knowing things about ourselves that we do not know now. I've expanded the ones you made bold in your post to include the rest of the scripture that will clarify your understanding. Right now, on earth, we only know few things about ourselves, but God knows us fully and completely. When we get to heaven, then we will have full understanding of ourselves just has God already knew us even while we were here.

Think about it, if Christians get to heaven and become all knowing (omniscient), hearing all peoples prayer (omnipresent) then they have become Gods! Those are characters of God that He does not share with anything.

That moment when you add your words to scripture so it can suit your false doctrine.

The Bible says we will know and understand fully and clearly.

You added "ourselves" somewhere in there.

The Bible says we shall be like God.

You still haven't been able to explain how the saints are like God.

Work harder!

Ovamboland:
Whao! You are so on point . You know the Yoruba history so well. Good. Since you have said the Benin is far more direct and credible.....I agree.The Oduduwa story is too ambiguous to be taken serious as you said, okay, we have heard you Prof. So what is the conclusion?

All my posts are the conclusion.

Jeromejnr:
Your error goes way too deep.

I'm not the one who wrote the Bible.

Tell that to St. Paul and St. John.

Jeromejnr:
So you actually just took these scriptures out of context.

This has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

For someone in heaven to be like God and to know fully has everything to do with everything because God himself is the source of everything.

Mary and the saints are like God and know fully, according to 1John3:2 and 1Cor13:12. If it is too painful for you to accept, then you can call those scriptures 'satanic' again, as you have done before...or you can manufacture a 'context' and tell us.

Afterall you said the bible is from the satanic Talmud...why should I expect you to believe it.

otr1:
The Yoruba did not come in one migration, but in many different migrations – in waves. The first possible migration might be connected with the Hyksos invasion. Some words in the Yoruban vocabulary echo the words used in Egypt in predynastic times and in the early dynastic periods.
The first crop of migrants or southward push of the Egyptians took place about 2000BC – 500BC. The Hyksos invasion (2000-1500BC) caused some of these southward migrations. Many of the black Egyptians seemed to have moved to Yoruba land during this period. .
The second wave of migrations can be referred to as the Black Nubian emigrants. The Nubians were black, they occupied present day Sudan, which was an integral part of the Egyptian Empire. The vocabulary, body scarification, and religious discourse resemble those of the Ijebus. These migrations occurred about 500BC.
A third wave of migration took place between 90BC and 30BC. The present writers feel the personality called Oduduwa, came in that migration trend.
A fourth migration will correspond to the Christian conquest of Egypt, about 100AD.
The last wave of migration will correspond to the Arab enforced emigration, between 700AD – 1100AD, when the Arabs had consolidated their control over Egypt; they chased the last batch of traditional worshipping Egyptians from Egypt. This occurrence would have led to many Yoruba claiming that their ancestors were chased from somewhere in the Middle East for not accepting Islam.
In Yoruba land, people have been living for thousand of years. Hence the Ifes claim 90 “kings” before the advent of Oduduwa! I don't know the exact numbers of Oonis that have ruled in Ife, but they're not less than 50 with Oduduwa being the first of them. So, Oduduwa met other Yorubas who have migrated here before him.
Those that says Oduduwa came from Ekiti/Okun axis are not totally wrong as that's the route he took to Ife when he was coming from Egypt.
If you're talking about the Yoruba account of the creation of the universe, yes, but the person of Oduduwa, the First Ooni of Ife didn't fall from the sky.

Everything in your Oduduwa story is too ambiguous to be taken serious.

You say he came to Ife between 2000bc and 40bc or something like that. A space of thousands of years.

You say there have been nothing less than 50 Oonis. Meaning there could have been thousands of Oonis.

And these ambiguities are from only you. What if I add the other Yoruba accounts which are totally different from yours. Yorubas can't even agree if Oranmiyan was Oduduwa's son or grandson or great grandson.

The Benin account is far more direct and credible.

They have had 31 Ogisos and 39 Obas and can name all of them with timeline from 40bc till date.

Ichiato:
Please don't misconstrue what I meant. I said oduduwa came from the east. The east has been translated to mean quite a few places. I only gave my personal opinion from what I have read. Besides, all the inaccuracies in the the yorubas account of where oduduwa actually came from does not prove that he was a actually a benin man. So please tell us who the father of oduduwa( the benin prince you claim) and why he he was banished from benin. Also why was the ogiso title set aside for the oba of benin?

I don't know.

Yoruba inaccuracies are to much for any of their accounts to be taken seriously.

If you dunno where Oduduwa came from, how can you then say with certainty that he was not from Benin?

laudate:
Oga, the spelling is 100% percent correct! No doubt about that. Every child in my school was taught to spell not just his own name correctly, but those of his classmates. I was often selected to write down the names of the noise makers in my class, and Eyi often tried to bribe me with groundnut & popcorn, to remove his name from the list!

I'm sorry. Anyone can claim to be classmates of Oba Akenzua's kids.

That is no proof anything.

Ichiato:
I see you avoided my mention. Please me who was oduduwas father and why he was banished from benin.

Ogiso Owodo was his father.

I don't know exactly why he was banished...but it was a result of power struggle...and it was unjust.

Pavore9:
Praise be to Jesus. Please l would be most grateful if anyone can help me with a digital copy of Pre-marriage course manual of any Parish within Nigeria, l am presently outside Nigeria thus my request for an e-copy.

I will enquire in Church today.

benjibabs:
You are reading your bible out of context. The two translations below will help you understand.

1 John 3Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 Beloved, we are [even here and] now God’s children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [as God’s children] resemble and be like Him, [b]for we shall see Him [c]just as He [really] is.

1 John 3The Message (MSG)
2-3 But friends, that’s exactly who we are: children of God. And that’s only the beginning. Who knows how we’ll end up! What we know is that when Christ is openly revealed, we’ll see him—and in seeing him, become like him. All of us who look forward to his Coming stay ready, with the glistening purity of Jesus’ life as a model for our own.

Pay attention to the portion in bold. We will be like him ONLY in the sense of seeing him as he his. When Jesus was here they could not see him in His full glory because they were still in the flesh. At the end of age when we have received our immortal body, we will be able to behold his full glory." To be like" him here does not include the ability to hear peoples' prayers at all, not to talk of hearing them simultaneously.

First of all, forget about the message bible that arbitrarily omits, adds to and changes the words of the bible to promote a false understanding.

The message omitted the following verses from the bible:

Matt 17:21
Matt 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Luke 17:36
Luke 23:17
John 5:4
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 24:7
Acts 28:29
Romans 16:24
1 John 5:7 

And also omitted "but by every word of God" from Luke 4:4 amongst other distortions.

The Bible says "we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is."

Leave it at that.

Nowhere did the bible say 'it doesn't include hearing prayers.'

See this verse in your AMP and MSG:

1Cor13:12 For now we are looking in a mirror that gives only a dim (blurred) reflection [of reality as [e]in a riddle or enigma], but then [when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand [f]fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been [g]fully and clearly known and understood [[h]by God].

1Cor13:12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing him directly just as he knows us!

With all their editing and distorting, they didn't have the mind to omit the fact that in heaven "we shall know and understand fully and clearly."

Are you going to tell me that the saints know fully but do not know the prayers offered to God?

The bible also says "they are like angels." do angels not know the prayers said to God?

Jeromejnr:
So you can worship them?

So we can't doubt that they can hear prayers on earth, like God.

1Cor13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

1John3:2 We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

Benjibabs, are those verses missing from your bible or is your bible missing from your shelf?

otr1:
I’m yoruba and I know yorubas are Egyptian migrants that’s how far we can trace our history but this is also very evident in our oral history as most yoruba words are same in meaning or almost same in pronounciation with the major Egyptian language.
Yoruboid vocabulary of today can be deduced either directly or indirectly from the ancient Egyptian. These are the original ancient Egyptian language devoid of Arab and Latin words that are very few in the Yoruboid vocabulary.
It is not really certain when king Oduduwa came from Egypt. He must have come in one of the many migrations. But since the Yoruba religious discourse has a lot of identities with Egyptian, Oduduwa would have left Egypt at a very early period perhaps after the Hyksos invasion of 2000-1500BC, but not later than 30BC.
While we have spoken Yoruba language, and practiced Yoruba cultures from time immemorial, it is obvious and even logical, that some aspects of our culture are borrowed. These borrowings point to ancient Egypt. It is also evident that while we have been in our geopolity from time immemorial, some aspects of our culture: divine kingship and aspects of religion: seem to be wholesale importation from Ancient Egypt.

So if there's ever any run-away Bini prince at all, he must have been killed by a wild animal before he got to the present day Ore.

By your account, Oduduwa came from Egypt to Ileife around 2045 - 4000 years ago.

Did he come with other Yorubas or did he come and meet Yorubas in Ileife?

Are you saying the Yorubas that claim Oduduwa came from heaven, Mecca, are wrong?

Are you saying ichiato is wrong when he says Oduduwa came with Lamurudu from Ekiti/Okun (not Egypt) to Ileife?

Was Oduduwa the first Ooni of Ife?

How many Oonis have there been till date?

boxiposhags:
The "You" in question is not you. I meant all tribalist.I did not Eyigbemi was an oba's child in benin Kingdom.But I have a simple question for You. Are Benin and Yoruba related or not ?

I don't know.

Do you know?

laudate:
So because his name is not on Google, it means he does not exist?? I don't get it oh! Does it mean that every human being's name has to be listed on Google?

I didn't say that. There's no need to distort what I said.

I said 'you' can't prove to me that Eyigbemi, if that's the spelling is Akenzua's child's name.

"He was my classmate" is no proof.

The name not on Google could be an indication that the name is not used by anybody of note.

2sex:
This is an Anambra son dude... I don't by most of the lies peddled by you lots. Come to Benin and tell them the rubbish you are peddling on here na.

I know the Benin history more than you can think off. Formerly, Benin king was called Ogiso. Dude, get your history right. Even the Binis know how they got the name Oba.

Lmao! Bros, how can you know Bini history when you don't even know your Yoruba history.

For starters:

Who is Oduduwa?

What does Oduduwa mean?

Where did he come from?

When did he come?

otr1:
I can get you tens of thousands of full blooded Bini natives who bear Yoruba names like Bose, Ayo, Temi, Toyin, Bola etc.
And if nothing else, Oba is a yoruba word as It is obvious the morphemes of the word, O (the one) and ba (rules) are non-existent among them.
You know where to go if you want to hear Bini incantations, but I doubt a flaathead like you- who doesn't even understand "wa kin pa e"- will comprehend anything.

Why are you calling me Igbo just because I ask you which names and incantations you speak about. I know truth hurts but try to control yourself.

If there are Bini people that bear Yoruba names, what does it prove?

Also, please look at this website and tell me if it is fake or that of Lagos State Govt.

http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/pagelinks.php?p=8

If it is real, can you please advise your Yoruba brother wytecat to accept the truth and stop being a liar?

Thanks.

spencerwilliams:
when the bible said "honour your fada and moda" and u are made to beleive the mother there is mary,who now becomes the father? is it Joseph? is your biological father? or any man that is a father?. The summary is that ALL catholics are idol worshipers and should repent.God bless u

So we are idol worshippers because we honour Mary who God honored abi?

Let the Yorubas tell us the Yoruba meanings of:

Eko, Idumagbo, Idumota, Eletu Odibo, Oduduwa.

Let them tell us exactly where Oduduwa came from.

Let them tell us when he came to Ileife.

2sex, wytecat, otr1 put heads together and tell us.

2sex:
LOL... how did the Binis get the name OBA for their king? You guys are damn shameful...

They probably got it from Oranmiyan who was the son of Ekaladerhan who you call Oduduwa and falsely claim fell from heaven, trekked from Mecca, trekked from Egypt, born by Lamurudu etc.

Lies! Oduduwa was a Bini Prince who was banished. He trekked to Ileife and single handedly subdued your people and ruled them and was their god.

ByfireByfire:
.
Honor your father and mother doesn't mean you should idolize them or give them a god status or pray through them instead of through Christ.

It doesn't mean you should make a god out of them as Catholics do Mary. It doesn't mean you should reverence or glorify them with reverence and glory only meant for God as Catholics clearly do with Mary.

They clearly accord her reverence that God alone should have.

Catholics don't do these things.

wytecat:
What an easy way out Only people who have nothing to say or back up their claims call other liars. Back up your claims and stop being a nuisance.

Lagos state government doesn't put out trash, it's one of the fruits of your inferiority complex. How many false stories do you never do well post around only for them to turn out to be false.
There are many Yoruba with different accounts of how they got to be where they are today Most Yoruba don't even know they are cos we were all known by our different dialects first.

Bini never conquered anything, it's all myth, or what do you see today to suggest that they ever conquered even a poultry farm? The rumour probably started from one drunk Ogiso who was a Joseph the dreamer for a day.

All those area mean ANNEXES.

Ido = settlement

Idumota = Ido Imota
Idumagbo = Ido Imagbo
Eletu = Eletu

Worry about your origin, every Yoruba known where they came from.

Omo Ale is exactly what it says and more, you have to be Yoruba to know more, heck, you have to really understand Yoruba to know that, even we young Yoruba don't really understand deep Yoruba like our elders do, let alone some strangers who happen to hear and speak broken Yoruba.

The bottom line is you don't have Eko meaning in any language except Yoruba.

Shut up. Either you listen to the Lagos State Govt...or you take up your fight with them.

Prior to the Portuguese name of Lagos being adopted, Lagos was originally called Eko, which stems from either Oko (Yoruba: "cassava farm" or Eko ("war camp", by its Bini conquerors. History has it that the Oba of Bini sent various trade expeditions to Ghana where spices were traded and one of his traders complained about the way she was being treated by the Awori's. The Oba of Bini then sent a trade expedition by sea. Ironically, the leader of the expedition arrived in the evening at a time when the people who were predominantly fishermen were either wading into the water or getting into their boats to gather their catch. He declined to engage them further and returned to what is now called Benin City where he reported to the Oba of Bini that they were attacked. This prompted the Oba of Bini to constitute a war expedition led by Ado, a Bini Prince to go to Lagos and demand an explanation. This was over 650 years ago. However, on getting there, they were well received. The people were so enamored with Ado they asked him to stay and lead them. He agreed on the condition that they surrendered their sovereignty to the Oba of Bini to which they agreed. The Oba of Bini was told this and he gave his permission for the expedition to remain. The Oba of Bini later sent some of his chiefs including the Eletu Odibo, Obanikoro and others to assist Ado in the running of Eko. Till today, the Oba of Lagos is the head of all the Kings in Lagos State and his status is different from other Oba's most of whom were later given back their crowns and staff of office only within the last 40 years and have various classifications.

http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/pagelinks.php?p=8

bossOD:
it is wrong to worship anything other than God, Catholicism was an idea that was brought in christendom by a king Called Constantin, and it is not biblical at all.

Yet St Ignatius said: "where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church" around 110AD...more than 200 years after Constantine was born.

Catholicism existed from Pentecost in Jerusalem 33AD. There is an unbroken line of Popes front St. Peter to Pope Francis.

Arise from ignorance.

otr1:
Since you know so much about Bini kingdom, your ignorance of their use of yoruba words in their incantations and bearing of yoruba names can not be excused.

Which names?

Which words?

Which incantations?

wytecat:
You guys need to bury yourselves cos you make claims you can't back up.

We Yoruba have "Eko" in every word relating to Lagos, be it "bush strip, everglades, or island. What do you have to suggest that you have EKO as a word, NOTHING! I asked again what these words are in Bini, "Camp" and "War" you can't say cos they can't spell or mean Eko whichever way you put them. Btw, "ok" in Ereko is "oko" get it.

Next time, come with something convincing if you want to steal from others cos your case would be face down now if you were to be in ICC. Yoruba have every name Eko sounding for Eko, you have NOTHING again!

You guys are just lucky that my people have some MUMU traits that make others want to lay claim to the clothes on their backs.

Even the Lagos State Govt calls you a liar so I don't need to argue with you.

Very soon you will lie that Prince Ado of Bini did not conquer and colonize lagos...and that idumagbo, Idumota, Eletu Odibo are Yoruba names.

Afterall, Oduduwa, your god has five contradictory origins.

Omo-ale means bastard in English.

Does that mean we should start to say that omo means child And Ale means concubine so omo ale is not bastard?

Olodo.

Ask anyone you know who went to University of Ekosodin Village.

Another question for you ignorant hypocrites:

Did Jesus know the date and time that God wills for his return to earth?

*wrestle with that.

MuttleyLaff:
@Jeromejnr, @CaptainJune, @michaelwestern LOL, welcome to the world of my very dear friend and good brother italo :-)

I am not surprised, italo says ''Jesus didn't know God's will''
SYNCAN, one of italo's brothers in the faith, earlier before I rebutted him with the below, implied Jesus was forsaken

- EXERPT -

Stop playing the victim card here Oga
Can you please not be daft, no one is picking a quarrel with you
but what so far has been said, is that, Jesus for the benefit of the disciples uttered in Aramaic the purpose
(i.e. the reason all those things were happening, the reason why He was created or the reason why He came to exist)
He then after declaring that the purpose (i.e. the process for salvation) is finished or accomplished
excused Himself with the "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" last word

Jesus chose His word very carefully and didnt speak impetuously when He used "Eli, Eli, lama, Sabachthani"
He actually was paraphrasing the begining of Psalm 22 (i.e. Psalm 22:1) just like He paraphrased the end of Psalm 22 (i.e Psalm 22:31)
There are a bunch of other scriptures and messianic psalms Jesus paraphrases.
Paul Peter et al also display this behaviour

Jesus deliberating DID NOT quote Psalms 22:1 verbatim or directly
but consciously changed or switched language and used the Aramaic "sabachthani",
so as to make the distinction from the Aramaic "nashatani"

"nashatani" and "sabachthani" are both Aramaic
"Nashatani" is the Aramaic word for the Hebrew word "azabtani", where in Psalms 22:1 it is correctly translated as the English word "forsaken"

Since "Eli, Eli, lama, Sabachthani" is Aramaic, if Jesus meant "forsaken", He would have uttered "Eli, Eli, lama, Nashatani"
where "Eli, Eli, lama, Nashatani" would mean "My God, My God, why hath Thou forsaken Me"
but He used "Eli, Eli, lama, Sabachthani"
which means:
"My God, My God, this is why You kept me"
or "My God, My God, this is My destiny" (i.e. I was born to do this)
or "My God, My God, this is what You permitted"
or "My God, My God, this is what You allowed"

Unlike some like you, specifically saying or insisting on "forsaken", the Aramaic speaking disciples and others in the crowd who were from Galilee never for a moment thought that Jesus had said God had forsaken Him.
How can that possibly be? God, forsaking Jesus? Nah, no, no, no.

Those words:
"My God, My God, for this I was kept"
or "My God, My God, this is why You kept me"
or "My God, My God, this is My destiny" (i.e. I was born for this)
or "My God, My God, this is what You permitted"
or "My God, My God, this is what You allowed"

was deliberated spoken in Aramaic by Jesus to God the Father and He spoke it loud and clear enough for the benefit and hearing of the disciples and others who understood Aramaic. He confirmed the plan, confirmed the reason for His crucifixion, and confirmed the execution of the plan
He did all this to the hearing of the disciples et al, made it publicly official, so that the beautiful message be known and be passed on to the entire world by the hearers of those unforgetable last words.

If you dont get it, if you refuse to admit that it is about the "forsaken" word, if you want to bury head in sand etcetera, so be it.

I wasnt quarrelling with you or having a tiff with you. I have a thousand one, better, and more attentive things to do than quarrel with you.
I was compelled to share this and my spirit or conscience wouldn't be at peace or stay at rest without sharing the knowledge
and besides that, I am lover, not a "quarreller", not a fighter.

I've done my bit bro. Have a great week.
I should have given up long time because for all it's worth, I've had my posts hidden and got banned twice by the finicky antispam bot,
Seun or one of the moderators came to the rescue and unhid the post, only to get slayed again by the antispam bot and hide my post again when trying to clean and tidy up the typos etcetera with another post before cancelling my original post which is no longer hidden.
I thought I have edited out what is triggering or setting off the antispam bot
but no, I havent, as I still had my post hidden and got banned again hence the muttleylaff2 ID

READ MORE or access the ENTIRE thread from here
https://www.nairaland.com/2423726/no-pastor-ever-answered-questions/1#35536119

-/EXERPT -

See how many words it takes when trying to twist the gospel?

Take this and twist it too:

Luke22:42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

Also, you miraculously failed to notice that Jeromejnr said the Bible is from the satanic Talmud.

Also you didn't mention to your fellow ignorant hypocrites that you teach that water baptism is obsolete and Jesus led his apostles to do it in error.

If Jesus' body could be incorruptible, why do so-called "christians" believe that a Christian's body cannot be incorruptible?

Why do these "christians" limit God's power?