₦airaland Forum

Ymodulus:
You believe everything the bible say without seeing it?

Yes, because I have faith in the Church that gave me the Bible.

Now can you answer me?

You believe everything the archeologists are reported to have said about the Enuma elish and its age without ever seeing it...or the archeologists. Yes or no?

You have faith in the reporters. Yes or no?

plaetton:
Organized Christianity started with nicean council.
Call it the hostile takeover of the Christian message by an imperial power, who then repackaged it for mass consumption.

1. You admit Christianity existed before the council. That makes dapo777 ignorant.

2. Christianity was organized from inception.

3. What you suggested seems to be what the Soviet Union, China, N Korea etc do/did with the Atheist Religion. They took it, institutionalized it and tried to force it down everyone's throat.

North Korea and China continue it to this day.

datopdlink:
Well!I don't know what you're implying,but I'm not.I wonder how you arrived at your assertions.Anyway,just for the record,I know the intelligence I see on this forum very well,and it has nothing to do with "big" words,or its use.Thank you.

The keyword in my post is "seem."

Kay17:
What a magnanimous duty you place in my hands! That duty is best achieved by showing how overgeneralized your standard for religion is.

The English dictionaries overgeneralized, then. Not me.

Can you show evidence that Christianity started in the Council of Nicea.

*Pls dont mention this again.

It reveals just how ignorant and clueless you are to all and sundry.

Dapo777:
It started at the council of nicea . So stop lying

Just to add...there is only one Church founded by Jesus on St Peter 2000 years ago.

Those things you call denominations aren't churches.

Image123:
Why are you permitted to hold differing opinions in your one denomination, but have a problem with other denominations having differing opinions/doctrines? Dodge not.


Teaching is doctrine. Other denominations hold differing views on gay marriage as well, and abortion, and cigarettes, and alcohol, and wearing of necklaces etc. These are the things that make up your so called million contradictions. So, do well to apply them to your denomination as well instead of separating them as opinion or teaching when it affects you. Your church's doctrine on gay marriage is inconsistent. FACT. What is the Roman Catholic position on gay marriage? Does it not differ from person to person, and priest to priest, and pope to pope? Show me two Mountain of Fire doctrines that are contradictory, that is one denomination. i have shown you the Roman Catholic denomination's.


Oh spare me this madness. If you were a priest or Bishop or a teacher in any capacity in the Catholic church, would you not give out your views?


My point exactly, teaching is doctrine. But in the Roman catholic church, you are insisting that they are opinions and everyone can have them. Methodist is one denomination, Roman catholic is one denomination, Anglican is another, so also deeper Life.


Are you soliloquizing here or what? Whatever you teach in the Catholic church can be called Church doctrine, it is not personal view. What you teach on gay marriage, holy Mary, evolution, priest marriage, is all DOCTRINE. That is obvious i suppose.


Let us call it THE video. It's not mine or yours, its just there on the internet and anyone can verify its content. The video truly shows contradictory and contradicting popes. Your popes, from the same denomination, having differing doctrines. It is not FULL of lies. Please point out the lies, talk is cheap.If you call it HALF truth, then it cannot be FULL of lies BTW. Tell us the half that is truth and the half that is lies. Its just about 5mins, the video. Quickly from the video for my dear fellows without MB.
FACT 1. Pope Honorious was condemned as an heretic at the Sixth General Council. Obviously, he must have had some differing views/doctrines in the same Catholic denomination.
FACT 2.Pope Eugenius IV condemned Joan of Arc, while another Pope Benedict XV canonized the same Joan of Arc as a saint. Is this contradictory?
FACT 3. Pope Paul V and another Pope condemned and KILLED Galileo because of his knowledge and teaching about planets and the shape of the earth etc. i'm sure you and your present Pope now agree with Galileo.
FACT 4. Pope Innocent III or IV forbad Bible reading in common languages. i want to believe it is not still so today.
Another infallible Pope sanctioned the Inquisition. pope Leo XII condemned and battled with Bible societies and translations. Pope Gregory XII pope Benedict XIII and pope John XXIII were all claiming to be the pope at the same time in 1415. These are historical facts.You should not open mouth when people are talking about contradictions. Your one denomination is full of them. It is not my desire or plan to talk down anybody or church, but if you are insisting and making false claims, i might have to show or remind about one or two things. The church is not any particular denomination or building but the Body of Christ. It is comprising of those that are saved and washed in the blood of the Lamb, having faith in the Lord Jesus. It is not about doctrine, as important and good as they may be.


i'm being factual, not confused. Peter was an integral part of the church, yet he made mistakes. Same too with James and john and any other believer there is. We are all pressing TOWARDS perfection as it were. So, there might be room for varied understanding in some matters.


i do not worship my mother, neither do i pray to her or through her. i do not kneel in front of her picture either or any other such things that you do to the virgin Mary.


Peter was one moment declaring Jesus as messiah, and in the next moment being used by the devil. Is Peter a part of the church?


Duhh, that is the very basis of most of the epistles and New testament books. Churches were not living right or teaching right, and they were corrected by the epistles. Some churches have Jezebels teaching them.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.



oh, i supposed this was what these was all about but you just confirmed it. my Roman Catholic denomination is better than all other denominations. Suit yourself, make sure you see me in heaven though.

It is clear you are scared of truth.

That is why you keep dodging my questions.

And since you cannot fault Catholic doctrine, you go about forcing your own definition of Catholic doctrine & Catholic Church.

If you will argue against the Church, argue against what it believes or teaches, not what you wish it teaches or believes.

But then, how else can you mask your confusion?

Image123:
Was there any opposition recorded?

It is clear you are scared of something. You cannot answer my question.

Ymodulus:
Are you trying to be AGNOSTIC about the whole issue? Let me let you know that these have been verified by source ( s ), credible and worthy enough

Who are the sources?

What makes them credible and infallible?

Ymodulus:
Proofs that Genesis 1 is nothing but a text-book photocopied version of Ancient Myths are numerous and cannot be over captioned.

https://biologos.org/uploads/static-content/enumaelish.jpg

Ma the above is called Enumaelish found by some archealogists and when examined the most striking thing about this piece is that a lot of stories in Genesis 1 were copied from this Piece. Ma do not say its the other way round( the text on the piece were copied from Genesis 1) No it can never be, as the piece as ben subjected to series of carbon - dating test and its age is over 200yeas older than the bible.

Italo is this a coincidence?



That been said, now to the poster. Jesus coming had no relevance. Christians and Religionist will say he came to save the world or die for me and you. These are pure lies. Jesus was just a Pseudo- Comic character, what amazes me is why he isnt used in heroic cartoons likes of BatMan, Superman etc

First things first, you believe everything the archeologists are reported to have said about the Enuma elish and its age without ever seeing it...or the archeologists. Yes or no?

datopdlink:
After reading some comments
Lawd!!!
But man,this forum is filled with really intelligent people.It reinforces my hope for Nigeria.Great Thread.

You seem to be equating the use of big words with intelligence.

Kay17:
@italo

To be truthful, your definition of religion is too broad and broad enough to cover "centralized atheism or state atheism" however it covers ideologies. It can cover the Nazis and the Communists as well as the Democrats, Social Liberals and PDP/APC. Worse you didn't even mention the type of beliefs necessary to form a religion. And in any case, can political beliefs form religions?

In a sense, they can.

I thought you would show why Atheism cannot be considered a religion. But you didn't.

Dapo777:
Who told you Christianity started from nothing. How? Explain

It wasn't in existence at a point in time, then it came into existence at a point in time. That's what I mean by "Christianity started from nothing."

If you disagree, tell us how it started.

EvilBrain1:
People who don't play golf have nothing in common except that they don't play golf. People who don't believe the unsupported claims of religion have nothing in common except that they don't believe the unsupported claims of religion. Atheists are not a natural group. You don't describe a group using properties its members don't share, you use what they have in common.

Thanks to the bigotry and intolerance of religious people many of us never got to interact with other atheists during our deconversion process. Most of us became fully formed skeptics and atheists by our own reasoning with little or no external guidance. Dapo777 above is an athiest and he's never read Dawkins. (Note to honeychild: Not having read one particular author does not make a person unenlightened you simpleton!) If atheism is just another religion, why don't we see people deducing Christianity and Islam from first principles without having been brainwashed by others or reading religious books. You people are just parroting what you've been told, there is no rational chain of logic that leads to Christianity or Islam or any other religion.

If you kill all Christians destroy all their writings, Christianity will be wiped out forever never to return. If you did the same with atheism, it'll be back the moment the next generation turn 10 or 12 and start noticing that the religion they were taught doesn't agree with reality.

Also even if we were to form an Atheism Legion of Doom and select a prophet, it wouldn't be Dawkins. All respect to the great scientist, but with the quality of candidates we have to pick from he wouldn't make the top 200. Who is Dawkins when we have great writers and thinkers like Bertrand Russell and Robert G.Ingersoll, people like Thomas Paine, Baruch Spinoza, Arthur Schopenhauer; men like Jean Meslier, people like Pythagoras and Diogenes and Epicurus who had destroyed your best arguments arguments before 300B.C.E. Even if we had to pick a scientist, what happened to Hawkins and Einstein and Darwin and Rosalind Franklin and the dozens of others who have contributed as much or more than Dawkins?

Fallacy!

If Christianity could start from nothing once, it can start from nothing again.

BossTtdiamonds:
Do you believe in abiogenesis...??
There goes your answer...

Dont go that far. This one is one of the less intelligent ones.

If you task his brain too much and he gets confused, he will start insulting God...thinking the insults will make God cease to exist.

He did it last week.

Weah96:
Virgins don't give birth, dead people stay DEAD. There goes the entire STORY of Jesus.

I call that unequivocal proof. Show me a recent resurrection anywhere, or a pregnant virgin without a human baby daddy, and then you got me.

That is no proof that Jesus wasn't born of a virgin and his story was copied from other stories.

It's you who has things to "show," not me.

You're the one backing a claim.

Mologi:
The blessed sacrament has been and always will be shield for me and my family against evil....

As a consistent mass server my story of the blessed sacrament is just too long

my brother just believe and the
wonders(of holy communion) shall never end in your life


AMEN

Brother, I've always imagined how much you mass servers must be experiencing that the rest of us probably dont.

Do you mind sharing a story or two concerning the Blessed Sacrament.

I too have numerous testimonies so I can understand if you dunno where to start from.

samflexx:
Its only for those who believe..We work by faith and not by sight..Non catholics that believes have recieved alot from him ever present in the blessed sacrament..while lazy yori yori catholics that dont believe keeps running un and down for fake miracle..

Very very true.

frank317:
lol... you just want atheists to be as delusioned as you are by fire by force... well try harder.

yea right the atheists in your neigbourhood always go to a place of worship on thursdays to worship science or wealth. they sing praises to the things you mentioned above and kneel down to them in adoration. they believe if they dont pay their tithe to science science will be mad at them and punish them. they go about on the tv and in cars asking people to worship science, threatening them of severe consequences if they dont.

lol

I have shown you how Atheism can be seen as a religion.

You havent refuted anything I said.

johnydon22:
What we know today is that the creation story in genesis is just a jewish myth copied from that of mesopothomia, and genetics have proved the story to be impossible. . . so if adam and eve are not real, then their was never an original sin, and if their was no original sin, remind me again why Jesus came?

First things first, prove the bold.

Maamin:
Where is [size=18pt]Theirs?[/size]

I too want to know.

They foolishly believe anything their fellow Atheists put on the internet...then accuse others of blind faith.

cedric24:
They all copied. Even the ancient Egyptian religion that Christianity copied heavily from is also a lie. Man always has this inkling that there has to be a God, powers, ghosts or something. The quest for power over fellow humans, fear and all sorts of avarice, and also for some good reasons too led our ancestors to take what they do no understand as sacred and holy. Clever writers, performers, poets, monarchies and other authorities created gods, angels and deities giving them story lines that have come to sound plausible and miraculous to people that will read about them later. They are simply myths that the unscientific mind fail to question and accepted as truth. Lies repeated over many years often become truth. The only way to know the truth is to subject them to rigorous test. This requires well and thoroughly educated and liberated minds.

Do you have proof that the story of Jesus never happened and was copied from other false stories? Then present it.

Otherwise, you'd pass for an unscientific mind that fails to question what you hold as true. An uneducated and unliberated mind.

AllNaijaBlogger:
Are you joking? You don't seem serious.

Is science a god?

Yes. For people who worship it.

AllNaijaBlogger:
As a christian with many muslim co-workers, I have to ask how atheism is a religion?

What do they worship?

self, science, wealth, their prophets e.g Dawkins, late Hitchens.

AllNaijaBlogger:
Do they have a god?

self, science, wealth, their prophets

AllNaijaBlogger:
What are their religious practices?

Worshipping the above, evangelizing on internet, praising the above, persecuting people of other faiths, celebration of Darwin's birth.

AllNaijaBlogger:
What are their religious symbols?

See symbols attached.

Mzflexydeeva:
Good morning great & beautiful people.

morning dear

woky:
Shebi he don arrive.

Brother, e don tay wey we talk to each other o...

How body?

Image123:
you are calling my views on this thread doctrine, but when i call the catholic views out, you will say they are opinions and catholics can have personal opinion. you are one funny little Roman Catholic.

Image123:
No, why should i? It's not my duty to be considering who is a member and who is not a member.

Image123:
Again NO, i have never said that.

But that's the meaning of what you said in the quote below. Members of the church cannot contradict one another on the salient issues. So if anyone contradicts you on a salient issue, either you or him or both of you are not members of the Church.

Why are you denying your own position now?

Good to see you remove the erroneous, exaggerated 'millions'. The visible church, which i guess to be every church building or denomination, is not necessarily the true church. For instance, the Roman Catholic church is currently confused and contradictory on whether gays should be priests or not, and on even evolution. Do you think this makes the Catholic church a false church?
i cannot see the invisible church, but like i explained to AIO, members of the body of Christ might be different in outlook and function, and may even share differing perspectives and understandings in some teachings. But when it comes to the weighty, major, salient issues, there is no contradiction. Jesus is Lord.

Image123:
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Stop twisting the words of St. Paul to fit your heresies. Nowhere did he say some Church doctrines are salient while others arent.

And nowhere does the Bible give a list of salient and non salient doctrines.

Image123:
No, i am saying two people might have differing understanding of the same issue. Do you have the same understanding that Ronaldo has about soccer? Is your position falsehood or his? Do you have the same opinion with Obama on health policies? Whose is the falsehood?

If church A teaches that abortion always sinful and church b teaches that abortion (in the way church A defines it) is not always sinful...

Those are contradictory doctrines.

At least one of them is a false doctrine...from the evil one.

These two doctrines are found in your protestant "churches."

Image123:
i'm not avoiding your question, i have answered it already. i have only tried and laboured to show you the big beam in your eye. The Catholics have different doctrines and teachings which you call opinions and which you claim that you are permitted to hold. Why are you permitted to hold differing opinions in your one denomination, but have a problem with other denominations having differing opinions/doctrines?

Still dodging my question because you fear truth.

The hundreds of thousands of Protestant communities and the millions of "non-denominational Christians" in the world have different contradictory doctrines. Yes or no?

Image123:
i just did. The teaching on gay marriage. Different catholics hold different views on it and hence would teach differently on it.

We are discussing Church doctrine. The Catholic Church doesn't recognize individual teachings as part of its doctrine. So you are in no position to force individual teachings into Catholic doctrine because you are desperate to equate it to the quagmire you have in your protestant communities.

Catholic doctrine is determined by the Catholic Church, not you. You attempt to put what you like into Catholic doctrine only demonstrates your dishonesty.

You still cant show me two Catholic doctrines that are contradictory.

Image123:
You call yours views and opinions, but other denominations own are doctrines. Its all the same. Your doctrine is basically your teaching, your view on a subject. i prefer to dwell on the unity, while you choose to enlarge the separation. i'm not interested in tearing down the Catholic church or pointing out your doctrines. However, even a casual search would show differing doctrines and views. Watch this video for instance, it's short about 5mins. It shows contradictory and contradicting popes. Your popes, from the same denomination, hving differing doctrines. Yet, you are all over because different denomination A has different opinion/doctrine from denomination

1. My views or teachings (if they are different from that of the Catholic Church) are only my teachings, not Catholic doctrine. Stop the dishonest attempt to equate them.

2. The teachings of each Protestant "church" can be termed "church" doctrines. Here are just a few of the multitude of examples known all over the world: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_Confession

http://www.deeperlife.ca/bibledoctrines/

http://www.methodist.org.uk/who-we-are/doctrine-of-the-methodist-church

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_doctrine

Also, there are many protestants so called christians who believe that anyone can interpret the Bible and come up with their own teachings, those who say they are their own Church, they also call themselves "nondenominational"...and there are millions of them. Whatever they teach can be called Church doctrine because "they are their own church." That is obvious.

I dont know why you insist on lying/playing dumb just because you fear the truth.

3. Your video is full of lies, half truths, misconceptions and deliberate manipulation. Can I take the contents as your views or do I assume you just latched unto anything you thought disproved the Church without doing an honest investigation yourself?

Image123:
Why not? The church is made up of BRETHREN. Brethren can hold different understanding, likes and dislikes. It doesn't make them not of the same blood. i may never in my life marry the kind of wife my brother married or do the kind of career or treat my money the way he treats his etc. He is still my brother. God is not asking for uniformity on paper but for unity.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Eph 4:13 This will continue until we are united by our faith and by our understanding of the Son of God. Then we will be mature, just as Christ is, and we will be completely like him.

There is not yet unity of the faith, understanding, or knowledge. We do not all know the same thing or have equal revelation. If you cannot understand this simple and straight fact, i might need to pray for you, and perhaps wash you at the river or something.

You are saying the Church of God can teach error...falsehood. You're saying the New Testament, the written teachings of the Church leaders could be erroneous.

You're just totally confused.

Image123:
On paper. What is your relationship with the virgin Mary. Do you worship Virgin Mary?

On paper and in Spirit, Catholic teaching is one.

In a sense, I worship her a little like you worship your mother...but I dont worship her as God.

Image123:
Not everything is done by Spirit, else there would be no point exhorting people to Walk in the Spirit or not be carnal.

So your "church" teachings are not of the Spirit...thats why there are contradictions.

Image123:
So, should women cover their heads then? If they don't, are they endangering their eternal life status?

I dont know. I dont think they endanger it directly. But since it is mentioned in the Bible that they should, there might be some graces or advantages it offers in their walk with God. This can indirectly affect their salvation journey.
[quote author=Image123 post=28349719]Phi 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
The Philippians would have to grow to that stage. In that period of growth, there will still be a gap or difference.

Doesn't mean the Church was at anytime teaching the Philippians error on any issue (salient or non salient)

Image123:
It is not your duty to go about identifying the true church. Do the best you can with the help of God's Spirit. You may never find the true church(if what you seem to refer to is denomination).

Speak for yourself.

As for me, I have found it. It is not a denomination. It is the Catholic Church...which gave you the Bible and told you about Jesus Christ.

If it is false, then the Jesus story could well be false. But they are both true.

Image123:
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Was Timothy told no further burden than the essentials?

You keep dodging my questions only because you are afraid of truth.

Was any opposition to the Church teaching in Acts 15 tolerated?

SalC, you fit gimme your email, make me sef fire u msg?

Dis one wey INTERNETPOlice dey find you, you don commit?

jnrbayano:
Already on my mat waiting for Italo to arrive.

Syncan, did you see Italo? Woky, did he come to that side?

Hmm... I no know how d guy take know my age o...

Abi I don talk am b4? I know say I b basket mouth sometimes...

My oga Striktlymi,

Happy birthday in arrears. May God pour down his blessings upon you all the days of your life.