₦airaland Forum

Forget about this. Any hypocrite can use to to hide from the truth.

Image123:
Hopefully you got the point, Jesus Himself was asked some seemingly 'yes or no' questions, He wasn't gullible to tempters. Not every yes or no question would get a yes or no answer.

You would consider anyone who disagrees with you on any of those points above, not a member of the Church. Yes or no?

You're saying only disagreement with Image123's understanding of the "salient issues" disqualifies one from being part of The Church.

Because you still cant show where the Bible says what issues are "salient" and can keep you out ofthe Church and which issues cannot keep you out. Even the example you gave of Jesus rubbishes your position. Jesus says love of God and neighbour are the greatest commandments, yet you omitted these in your list of salient issues. Paul and Barnabas had no disagreement a doctrinal issue.

You are saying The Church can teach falsehood on non-salient issues? Yes or no.

4.

Image123:
You are putting words in my mouth as it were. i did not say they were at liberty to disagree. The point i make is that their disagreement foesn't mean they are not part of the body or church. just like family members may have disagreements and different likes and understandings. It is the will of God that there be no schisms or disunity but that is not happening yet as it were.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
This passage talks about God giving the church gifts for perfection till/UNTIL we ALL come in the unity of faith and of knowledge. We do not all have unity of faith and knowledge. Some are weaker in faith than others, some do not have the same knowledge or understanding. Paul for instance had some knowledge and understanding that some other believers did not have. And he had his disagreements, like for instance with his friend Barnabas on ministry decisions.
The Bible refers to some teachings as milk and some as meat, hence showing that all teachings are not on the same level. Even in the law, Jesus was asked which is the greatest. He didn't say they were all equal teachings. there are weightier matters than the others. Anyone who does not think Jesus is Lord is not a member of the church.

What "proofs" made sense?

But you said it is impossible to prove or disprove God.

How can "proofs" make sense when there cannot be proofs?

#ConfusedAtheist

zeemahn:
But ops proofs made sense. Your the one that should be addressing it cos I align with him

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging

Read about INVERTED HANGING here.

Now you know you're the liar, cheat and ignoramus.

Weah96:
Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying, you shameless person. You don't have a conscience, after all. You're a liar, a cheat, and a liar.

Ukutsgp:
i just came here to debunk the claim that u people compiled the bible and i have done just that. Cos i hate hearing that. The bible had been compiled before your so called roman catholic came into existence. They are all in the post. U can read it up.

I dnt hv to reply u on the other matters. That is for another day. I have other business to attend to.

I dnt have ur time.

Compiled by who? Who told the compiler to compile? When did the Catholic Church come into existence?

lilcutie8916:
.Christians should please reply to this.

What about it?

I do not know the number that was killed.

What point are you making and will you be able to reply my own questions too...or will you start beating around the bush when the heat is on?

Ukutsgp:
Did The Catholic
Church Give Us The
Bible?


Catholics contend that the whole world is
indebted to the Roman Catholic church
for the existence of the Bible. This is
another of their attempts to exalt the
church as an authority in addition to the
Bible.


Please notice the following
from Catholic sources:

"If she had not scrutinized carefully the
writings of her children, rejecting some
and approving others as worthy of
inclusion in the canon of the New
Testament, there would be no New
Testament today.

"If she had not declared the books
composing the New Testament to be
inspired word of God, we would not know
it.

"The only authority which non-Catholics
have for the inspiration of the Scriptures
is the authority of the Catholic

Church." (The Faith of Millions , p. 145)
"It is only by the divine authority of the
Catholic Church that Christians know
that the scripture is the word of God, and
what books certainly belong to the
Bible." (The Question Box , p. 46)

"It was the Catholic Church and no other
which selected and listed the inspired
books of both the Old Testament and the
New Testament...If you can accept the
Bible or any part of it as inspired Word
of God, you can do so only because the
Catholic Church says it is." (The Bible is a
Catholic Book , p. 4).


The Catholic writers quoted above state
that one can accept the Bible as being
inspired and as having authority only on
the basis of the Catholic Church. In
reality, the Bible is inspired and has
authority, not because a church declared
it so, but because God made it so. God
delivered it by the inspiration of the
Holy Spirit and declared that it would
abide forever. "All scripture is inspired
of God..." (2 Tim. 3:16). "...Holy men of
God spoke as they were moved by the
Holy Spirit." (2 Pet. 1:21). "Heaven and
earth will pass away, but my words will
not pass away." (Matt. 24:35). "The grass
withered, and the flower has fallen--but
the word of the Lord endures
forever." (1 Pet. 1:24-25). The Catholics
are wrong, therefore, in their
assumption that the Bible is authoritative
only because of the Catholic Church. The
Bible does not owe its existence to the
Catholic Church, but to the authority,
power and providence of God.


this is to italo, vest and craziebone

The only reason you are quoting those verses is because the Catholic Church included them in the Bible in 382.

If they had included Goodluck Jonathan's Independence Day speech, you would be quoting it too.

So the Bible derives its authority from the authority of the body that created it.

Weah96:
Sure, that's as good a way to kill oneself as any, right? #BRAIN DISEASE#

Are you saying it is impossible he hung himself from the feet...or there is nothing like "inverted hanging?"

Hiswordxray:
I do not disagree with those verses and I know what am saying. Yes Christians have doctrines and churches have doctrines but the Church does not have doctrines for she is a body.
It like John saying, yes we sin (1John 1:but the child of God can't sin (1John 3:9). If you don't understand these statement it shows you are still a Spiritual baby and you need to grow up to understand our language.
Like Paul said " not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words." (1Cor 2:13).
And I can't explain it to you because if I do you won't understand me. Concerning this Paul said " 6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory," (1Cor 2:6-7).

It has been said by someone that you have a mental problem. I think that person was being nice to you.

Sweetrosa:
My roommate is always fond of criticizing catholics,well,yesternight,she woke me up and told me about a dream that she had.she said that she saw herself in the catholic church with a stone in her hand to stone the blessed sacrament.she said suddenly,she heard a voice saying I am the 'I am that I am',drop that stone.she said that she was shivering and asking God to forgive her.Pls let us cherish what we have.#proudly a catholic#

It is your duty now to bring your roommate closer and closer to the Church...or at least to try.

Image123, did the apostles also tolerate any opposition to Church doctrine (salient or not) as you do?

Or could it be that you are a part of another "church," not theirs. A new "church" that teaches a new doctrine. A new doctrine which the apostles warned us would come from the evil one?

Hiswordxray:
If you want an answer so badly here it is:
But first I didn't mention anything about the visible and invisible Church. I only talked about the Church.
The Church am talking about is a living body. A body does not need doctrine. Or do you need doctrine for your body to function?
All the body does is to express the person or the life in it. All the Church does is to express the life in it. The Church is not an organization that needs law but a body that expresses Christ.

Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching (doctrine) and fellowship, to the breaking of bread (religious practice) and the prayers.

Obviously, you are not a part of the Church of the apostles.

It is safe to call you a false teacher. No?

Other verses:

Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what is consistent with sound doctrine

2 John 1:9 Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching;

Then read Acts 15 to see how seriously the early Church took disputes in doctrine.

Image123:
Where are the hypocrites and what are their hypocrisies?


Good to see you remove the erroneous, exaggerated 'millions'. The visible church, which i guess to be every church building or denomination, is not necessarily the true church. For instance, the Roman Catholic church is currently confused and contradictory on whether gays should be priests or not, and on even evolution. Do you think this makes the Catholic church a false church?
i cannot see the invisible church, but like i explained to AIO, members of the body of Christ might be different in outlook and function, and may even share differing perspectives and understandings in some teachings. But when it comes to the weighty, major, salient issues, there is no contradiction. Jesus is Lord.

1. There are millions of contradictory so-called Christian doctrines. It is not an exaggeration. I removed it just to prevent you from having any excuses to dodge the questions. If you think, there aren't up to millions of contradictory doctrines, (I) show me another Christian who agrees with the totality of your own doctrine. (II) tell me how many contradictory doctrines there are.

2. The Catholic Church is not confused or contradictory because Catholic doctrine is explicitly spelt out in the Catechism and Canon law. If the Catholic Church has definitively taught on an issue, then no Catholic is at liberty to disagree with it. We are only at liberty to hold personal opinions where the Catholic Church has not taught definitively on an issue.

3. Again, who defines what is "weighty" and "salient?" You?

4. The visible Church can be a false Church?

Image123:
Jesus Himself was asked some seemingly 'yes or no' questions, He wasn't gullible to tempters. Not every yes or no question would get a yes or no answer. Take that as moral lesson from the story.

Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

Luk 20:22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?

The Pharisees also dodged questions because they were afraid to come out into the light...just like you hypocrites.

Image123:
So at least in this instance, there are only two contradictory views or understandings, not millions.




We are not referring to false teachers and co. We are talking about the church. People who are MEMBERS of the church and the possibility or reason for having different understandings on some issues.





Yes and No. Like i said earlier, there are different aspects of life, and different perspectives and understandings to life. We can both be in the same class, taught by the same person, and not write the exact same thing in a test, even though we were told the exact same thing. We may both pass that test and be certified as professors and masters in that course. Very possible. The point is that there CAN BE differences and we still belong in the same class. Same thing with a family. You might not agree with your brother, your mother, your sister, your mother on everything. That doesn't mean you are not family. In fact, you might actually be contradictory on some issues, don't mean you're not blood.Your blood is thicker than your water as it were. In the church(the body of Christ), there exists something similar. Individuals and groups might have different and differing viewpoints and understanding on some issues. However, you would hardly find disagreement on salient issues of the faith.
Jesus is Lord from yesterday till forever, anybody with a different view to that is NOT a member of the body of Christ. Jesus died for our sins. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. these are fundamental truths. You cannot have millions of contradictory opinions about these.

So for you, members of the Church are at liberty to disagree on any doctrines of the faith (teachings), except the "salient issues of the faith."

1. Where do you get that teaching from? The Bible or your personal tradition? If it is the Bible, show me the verse that says that.

2. Who defines which Christian doctrine is a "salient issue" and which Christian doctrine is not? The Bible or you? If it is the Bible, please show me the verse.

3. You would consider anyone who disagrees with you on any of those points above, not a member of the Church. Yes or no?

JackBizzle:
Says the person who claims that catholicism came before the bible

Never said so. No need to tell lies. If your mind is empty, sleep.

JackBizzle:
You are lucky that I wasnt the one that caught you in this lie.


When someone hangs himself, is it not death by strangulation (of the rope)?

Also how did Judas manage to fall head-long while trying to hang himself?

If he did hang himself, he would be dead in a standing (floating normally) position.





Guy, your lies are not confusing anyone

He could have hung himself from the feet.

I have always advised you to educate yourself, rather than rant on nairaland...Unfortunately, you'd rather be ignorant and useless.

urheme:
That is why the bible is trash,

I don't know how the idea of uprooting dead bodies from their graves, all for purpose of worship got into heads of catholics.

Italo, you should advise them to review the bible so they can religiously include grave vandalism.

Clap clap!

You actually thought with your brain before typing this. Wow!

debbie:
Let me officially inform the house dat I hv bn blessed with a beautiful baby girl two days ago! It was indeed a miracle only God could explain.
Gather together let me share NZU and de rest. SalC nnem thanks for your great work...
My prayer for all is this............May that blessing which u hv bn carrying be born into a glorious testimony.AMEN

We thank God for his blessings.

tchigofigo:
to b christians means.,to follow and examplify christ's life and teachings..sadly, hw many christians and denominations can boast of being 'like Christ'? Vry few indeed! So, pple shld stop pointn fingers at catholics alone

Forget it. They wont stop.

Jesus foretold it to his Church 2000 years ago and for all 2000 years, we've experienced it...yet we flourish under the stewardship of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, be aware that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If you belonged to the world,[a] the world would love you as its own. Because you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world—therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘Servants[b] are not greater than their master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also."

Chiechezonam:
Read
Mark 7 :7-9.

They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. '

You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men. "

And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD . . .

That verse is referring to you who sets aside the commands of God through his Church...and obey the traditions of Martin Luther.

tchigofigo:
praying 4 d dead is nt biblical n my bible does nt av macca-wateva in it..after death comes judgement..as 4 d early christians praying 4 d dead, where's it xpressly stated in d bible?

Your "Bible" is an adulteration of the Bible.

Here's where the Bible expressly supports praying for the dead:

2 Maccabees 12:38-46

38 - So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the place.

39 - And the day following Judas cam with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.

40 - And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth the Jews: so that all plainly saw, for this cause they were slain.

41 - Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.

42 - And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.

43 - And making a gathering, he twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

44 - (For if he had not hoped that the that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

45 - And because he considered that the who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

46 - It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Martin Luther removed it because it disagrees with his heresy in the 16th century.

Bidam:
A circular argument you have been parading for years will lead you nowhere, if you really are a honest seeker for the truth. Refer: https://www.nairaland.com/1478018/why-churches-different-doctrines-denominations/2

I haven't made any arguments. I only asked you a question which neither you, nor the essay you posted, answered.

My direct question to you, Bidam, not Enigmar was:

You seem to believe that Catholic doctrine is false, so is the Catholic Church a part of the Church?

Yes or No.

Weah96:
LOL. Let your conscience be the judge.

My conscience? You finally renounce the Judgement seat?

You have momentarily come to your senses. Kudos.

Weah96:
The bible says he went out and "hanged himself." Please describe another scenario besides the constriction of the trachea.

Weah96:
The bible says he went out and "hanged himself." Please describe another scenario besides the constriction of the trachea.

What purpose does it serve?

Judas hanged himself...and Judas fell head-long and burst open.

You cannot prove that to be impossible.

Chiechezonam:
Roman Catholic is satanic and evil.
Beware the saint's!

That's off-topic.

It is biblical to pray for the dead.

zeemahn:
Who created the thread?
Op merely attempted to prove something
It is actually impossible to prove or disprove the existence of a supernatural being.

You should be addressing this to the op who claimed "100% proof."

It seems you're very biased...as a result, not arguing sensibly.

zeemahn:
You made claims
Op has attempted to prove something. Did you read ops post at all? Guess it was too long fpr you

Stop lying against me because OP cant prove my religion to be a sham. I never made claims.

sukkot:
the bible

Ukutsgp:
this is the nonsense i hate. u claim that u people compiled the bible yet u people go against its teaching the most.

The Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church in 382 in Rome.

PastorAIO:
There are only 2 beliefs on the subject of hell. 1, there is no hell. and 2, there is hell. That one is not rocket science.



apparently so. Of course there are many that bandy the name Jesus about, but that does not mean that they are talking about the same thing. 'In Jesus name' is now just a formula that people tag on to the end of prayers to give the prayer more oomph!

Doctrine, the word, can be used loosely to mean any number of things. For example you yourself are now using it to mean opinions and understanding, and to be fair to you, such usage has precedents. But I believe that the way that it is used in Church history and in this present case is in it's original etymological sense of TEACHING (from Latin docere, to teach).

Can the church have different contradictory teachings?

These crafty people who are finding it difficult to face up to such simple questions sincerely...do you think they are being Christ like?

It seems to me that their hearts are shaded with deceit.

Just saying.

Bidam:
Good, in addition the catholic believes there are many ways to God in far contrast to the orthodox doctrine of ONE way TO THE Father through Jesus Christ.

You seem to believe that Catholic doctrine is false, so is the Catholic Church a part of the Church?

Yes or No.

Image123:
italo referred specifically to MILLIONS of contradictory doctrines. The word 'doctrine' itself is used loosely. On difference in opinions, i think even family members have different opinions and understanding on several issues, it doesn't mean they are not family. The same thing with church. You may want to consider what is major and what is minor. Are there millions of contradictory doctrines on who is the way to eternal life? Etc. It's either one believes there is hell or there's no hell. There are no million beliefs in that, just about two or so.

There is nothing hypocrites wont do.

Ok,



1. Does the visible Church hold on to contradictory doctrines (teachings), as is seen today among those who claim to be Christians and claim to partake in the sacraments mentioned?


2. Does the invisible Church hold on to contradictory doctrines (teachings)?