₦airaland Forum

JackBizzle:
I didnt shove anything down anyones throat. I gave a lot of criteria for judging a good life and showed you how those things have nothing to do with the meaning of life.

Stop arguing for arguing sake. I gave different criteria without recommending anyone. People have the choice of choosing what works for them in life.




You keep confusing yourself. "Purpose" doesnt apply to life but to only human made constructs.

You didnt create it, so how can you know its purpose.

The reason we can apply a purpose to things like tables or cars is that we humans made those things. We know that cars are made for transportation because they were built with the need to move things from one place to the other. The purpose of a car is for transportation!!!!!!

You didn't create life, so how can you be sure it has no purpose?

Who defines "good life?" You?

JackBizzle:
Now, you are starting to see my logic and what I have been trying to tell you.

Humans have defined hunting. We know what is and why we hunt. Knowing the meaning/purpose of hunting allows us to define an effective hunt or hunter.

If we define Tigers as "hunters", an effective tiger must be a good hunter. (for argument sake only)


The point here is that human constructs give rise to meaning and purpose.


Since we didnt create tigers or human life, the purpose/meaning of them is beyond us. We create human constructs and in turn, give purpose to things.


Remember, we didnt create life.

Then YOU cannot know what a good or better human life is.

JackBizzle:
The problem you are having is that you can not see that "purpose/meaning" can not apply to life but only to man-made constructs.

Where do you get that law from?

You are formulating again...and trying to force down everyone's throats.

You're bereft of ideas.

JackBizzle:
The very medium and technology you are using to tell me about christ were created by people who do not believe or care about Jesus Christ.


Most of the things you use in your everyday life are created by atheists. Think about that.

Now it is obvious that you're a baby Atheist who has been poorly educated.

Science was invented by the Catholic Church.

But, all scientists were Atheists, what would that mean in the context of this thread?

Would that be your proof that life is meaningless?

JackBizzle:
The difference of course is that doctors (the title) and bottles are human made constructs.

Life is not created by humans and we do not know the purpose. This is why I used a tiger to illustrate the point- it is a living thing

Then you cannot know what a good or better life is...

Just like you cannot know who is a good doctor without knowing the purpose of doctors.

Whether it is a human construct or not is inconsequential. It is logic.

Logic that seems to be beyond your mental capacity.

JackBizzle:
@ bold.

You just nullified your own point-

The purpose of hunting and the purpose of the tiger's life are two different things.

You know why the tiger hunts and how good it is as an effectiver hunter but you dont know the tiger's purpose for being on earth.

======================================================

Now this is delusion. I did not nullify my point.

The tiger is an effective hunter, but that doesn't make him an effective tiger.

To know if it's an effective tiger, you'd have to know why tigers exist.

JackBizzle:

A good life can be measured on many terms
-a long life of 100 years
-a rich life
-a healthy life
-an accomplished life (with many titles)

But all these things do not explain the meaning of life.


Italo, try and be realistic

Whose definition is the above?

You are formulating a definition for "good life" and trying to shove it down everyone's throat?

A poor, short, unhealthy life without titles cannot be a good life?

A long, rich, healthy life with many titles cannot be a bad life?

See how much confusion Atheism brings?

Kay17:
The purpose of a Christian is either to sin or to go to heaven. Christians, very simpleminded set of people.

How convenient to argue against your own view of the Christian faith.

It makes you look intelligent and broad minded.

It guarantees that you win the argument.

Clap clap.

JackBizzle:
effectiveness and purpose are two different things.


We do not know the purpose of a tiger but we do know that it is effective at hunting smaller prey. One of the best hunters in the jungle.


A man with a purposeless or meaningless life might be a very wealthy and healthy man. Yet, he still feels empty on the inside.

How can you judge the effectiveness of something without knowing the purpose of that thing?

You know a tiger is an effective hunter because you know the purpose of hunting (to catch prey, mainly for food).

But you don't know if the tiger has an effective or good life because you don't know the meaning or purpose of its life.

To know what a good (or better) life is, you must know the meaning and purpose of life...and you know neither.

Let me break it down further to see if you can successfully wrap your brain around it.

A bottle might be effective in a fight (as a weapon) but that doesn't make it an effective or good bottle. To know if it's a good bottle we'd have to check how well it does what bottles are made to.

A doctor might also be an effective orator, yet be a poor doctor if he can't do what doctors are meant to do.

A human being might be effective in making money (wealthy), taking care of his body (healthy)...

But to know if he is a good human being, or living a good/effective life, we must know what human life is meant for.

Hiswordxray:
The Church does not live by doctrine but as the body of Christ she expresses the life within her. The body is meant to express the life inside of it and that is what the Church does, she does not need doctrines or religious practices she simply expresses the life of Christ deposited in her through the word of God.

Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching (doctrine) and fellowship, to the breaking of bread (religious practice) and the prayers.

Obviously, you are not a part of the Church of the apostles.

It is safe to call you a false teacher. No?

Cc PastorAIO

Other verses:

Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what is consistent with sound doctrine

2 John 1:9 Everyone who does not abide in the teaching of Christ, but goes beyond it, does not have God; whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 Do not receive into the house or welcome anyone who comes to you and does not bring this teaching;

Then read Acts 15 to see how seriously the early Church took disputes in doctrine.

plaetton:
It's not about this particular story, Italo, Mr Angel, for me, my attention is on the new emerging memes we are hearing from motherchurch and the holy sea.
Just stay tuned.
And BTW, Satan is usually invoked when a faith suffers an episode of cognitive dissonance.
Did you just suffer one
Ndo o.

Story is false, Satan.

Try another day.

plaetton:
Why are you calling me Satan?
Do I pose a threat to you?

Satan, the story is fake.

Move to other things.

plaetton:
What if the story turns out to be true?
Would that cause you mental distress?
How would you handle it?
That is what I am interested.

As an observer, I have no doubts where the Pope heading. He has flown the kite a couple of times that we need to open our minds to new understandings of the scriptures.

I am just tickled and eager to see the faces of African Catholics and evangelicals as this Vatican 3.0 social engineering project rolls along.

Satan, no market today.

The story is fake. It didn't happen.

sunnshyn:
I'm trying to get back to the catholic faith...
I remember as a little girl, I was in the choir, I was in block rosary, I was in legion of Mary, and life was easier...till I got into the university and started going to 'opee-pee' church...
Fast forwrd when I left Nigera and started Winners Chapel fully, life became something else...kai!!
Tracing my steps back...I need God's mercies and grace, I need to start saying my rosary again, I want to be able to talk to my mother blessed virgin Mary...
What prayers do I say for forgiveness?

Just go to confession, sweetheart.

Don't be ashamed to make it known to the Priest if your are confused about how to confess.

Do not be ashamed or afraid. Look at the story of the prodigal son.

His Father wasn't waiting arrogantly for him to come and apologize...but immediately his Father saw him coming, he went out to meet him.

Jesus is waiting for you...just go, he will rush out to meet you.

He will absolve you of your sins your relationship with him and his Church will be fully restored.

Pls join us here...https://www.nairaland.com/1464338/thread-catholics/257#down Perhaps, it will help you a great deal.

God bless you.

An2elect2:
Hmmm nawa o! catholics always defending their mother church. Am yet to see a catholic stand by and for the scriptures they claim to have preserved.

Hater, the story is fake. Nobody in the Vatican said anything like the above.

No market today, come tomorrow.

JackBizzle:


Who said that?

You love strawmen, dont you?

I guess logic and reasoning came from you then.

Or could they be from God?

JackBizzle:
How do you know that life transcends earth?
Have you been beyond earth?
You ascribe meaning to things which are not there.

Yet you know life doesn't transcend earth...because you have been beyond earth?

JackBizzle:
lol.....


A man in a coma is alive but is he really "living"?


Learn to appreciate the difference

No. A man in a coma is really dead, #ConfusedAtheist.

So define "really living" and show us where you got the definition from.

JackBizzle:
"life is meaningless"

^^^
"Life" in the above sentence means "living", "consciousness", "being alive".


If I asked you to describe consciousness and why we are conscious, you wont be able to answer.

But if I asked you what a table is and why tables are made, it is answerable.



The difference here is that man made constructs have meaning because we humans give it meaning. We can put a purpose to many things because we made them- we did them for a reason.


You did not create yourself and no one knows how life came about. If we did, we wouldnt be here debating the meaning of life or the purpose of life.



Logic on the other hand is a tool only humans can use. Many aspects (but not all) of logic are human constructs. In that sense we can apply purpose to some logic.


See the difference?

1. You falsely assume I don't know why we are conscious. I do.

2. You falsely assume you can be sure of why a table was made. You cannot know, except you made it. Even if you made it, you still might not know. Almost all of us have said at some point, "I dunno why I did it."

3. You falsely assume that no one knows how life came about. I do.

4. You assume that only humans can use logic. No scientific proof.

5. Logic itself was not invented by man. Where did it come from? Chemical reaction?

JackBizzle:
You are free to be illogical.


The point here is that a well reasoned life is a better life.

We can all see how delusional people end up.

The choice is yours to be sensible

How can you be the one to define what a "better life" is when you think life has no meaning?

How do delusional people end up and what could be wrong with their ending, in a meaningless life?

davien:
There is a difference between "life" and "living"...

And one is meaningless while the other has meaning?

Atheistic gymnastics!

JackBizzle:
Seriously?

If we are here for no reason or purpose, why must everyone conform to idea of reasoning logically?

Is that their purpose in life?

JackBizzle:
It is refreshing to see a christian use logic.

Now, logic and reasoning are the only effective ways of acquiring knowledge. They limit bias in our research.

And it is logical to believe that logic and reasoning just emerged from nowhere...from a chemical reaction?

JackBizzle:
I fail to see your point.

My point?

Your point that life is meaningless...is meaningless.

If life were meaningless, reason, logic, would be meaningless.

You believe there is a purpose you are having this meaningful discussion in a purposeless and meaningless life?

You a joker.

davien:
The only meaning that life shows is simply to pass on your genetic code....and it even messes up at that......
any other meaning while you are alive is up to you.
If you were meant to serve "god" you'd know about it....not be indoctrinated on it...
If you were meant to serve "yahweh" then everyone ever born since antiquity would be christian...
As you can see anyone that serves "god/gods" did so out of indoctrination,influence or "dreams"...not because it is true or anything demonstrate-able..
That is why to the theist,a "fo0l" is anyone that doesn't agree with them..........
Like a child that decides that anyone that doesn't agree with him is "stup1d"

If meaning of life is up to each individual, why are you here trying to teach us the meaning of life.

Why don't you leave each individual with his own meaning?

JackBizzle:
Life itself has no innate meaning.

That doesnt necessarily mean that it applies to everything we see.

Oh! So life has begun to have meaning that is not innate afterall.

Honour to Mary!

Oduduwaboy:
I love the catholic church; its ever so pragmatic & realistic!

The story is fake.

Nothing like that was said.

1. Does the visible Church hold on to millions of contradictory doctrines, as is seen today among those who claim to be Christians and claim to partake in the sacraments you mentioned?


2. Does the invisible Church hold on to millions of contradictory doctrines?

JackBizzle:
Death and Meaning

In the next 100 years, none of you reading this post will be alive.

Life is so fleeting when one considers how short it can be.

Also consider that our galaxy is over 10 billion years old. We never get to even live a quarter of that time frame.


What really is the point of life if it ends all in death?


One lives all his or her life struggling to survive ie struggling to avoid death which will inevitably occur.


A medical student who was the best in his class throughout university died on his first day as a doctor.


You can work hard all your life and die the moment you want to reap what you have sowed.

===================================================

An animal life

What is the purpose of a fish? To be eaten by sharks and human beings? Just to live and die as food for other animals?
What is the purpose of a cat? To beg for milk and fish from humans?

We can all agree that assigning a purpose to an animals life is ridiculous. Why then are humans exempt?

We think we are special because we can reason. A dog looking at the moon can not understand the significance of the lunar cycle. The same way we can never understand the universe in its entirety. So how are we really different?

Our reasoning has limits. What if the purpose of life is truly beyond our reasoning abilities? What if the minds of the gods were meant for more evolved beings?


========================================================================


Purpose and Religion

To the religious people claiming that our purpose as humans to serve and worship God, they should understand that it is not just true logically if you consider the death of babies.

Babies who die in the womb due to natural/spontaneous abortions never get to worship God or even develop the reasoning ability to understand any concept of God. Natural abortions are the most common abortions that occur in millions every year.

Those babies that die in the millions do not get to worship God in their brief life. So, I ask again; what is the purpose of life? What exactly is God's purpose for babies dying natural deaths in the womb?


What is even the essence of religion? The way religion was practised in the 7th century is different from the one practised today. It all seems arbitrary- religious doctrines sway to the interpretations of whichever religious leaders are in power or the most vocal.

Buddhism promises some inner peace, Islam promises a total way of life for peace, Christianity promises salvation, Paganism promises oneness with the earth. But all these do not guarantee a better life on earth. You could die the same day you convert to any of these religions. One can live a fulfilled life without any of these religions.


====================================================================

So what is your purpose in this life?


What exactly is your purpose?
1) To leave a legacy?
All legacies get bastardized after a while. Jesus Christ is now popularly known as a white Italian hippie. Whereas, in reality Jesus would have been a dark skinned radical Jew.

Worse, only few people get to leave legacies. If you dont have money or power, you will die a nobody. Afterall, even the few people that will remember you will die eventually.

2) To enjoy life to the fullest?
Hedonists usually die quicker. What if you were born without legs or as a Siamese twin? What then? You wouldnt be able to enjoy most sports. Most people will treat you as a freak. Se.x or marriage partners would be harder to come by. And so on.


3) Religious devotion (to the afterlife)
Yes, the afterlife. A life after death that you have never seen and cannot prove. A haven that you have been promised by religion but with crazy standards to fulfil.
If preparing for heaven is the purpose of life then, life is truly pointless. Why not just send us to heaven directly? Why would we need to be tried and tested if God knows our inclinations? What is the point in putting us in such a world where the only the fittest survive? This life is such an unnecessary test if one adheres to an all-knowing God. We are nothing but pawns in an eternal chess game.


4) I was born to be a leader/accountant/doctor
Hitler could also claim that he was born to lead the Aryan race and exterminate "rats" like the Jews. No one is born to be anything. We can only prepare ourselves and our talents for a brighter future.
Wayne Rooney was also a talented boxer. Man chooses his destiny (at the discretion of fate).

===================================================

What do I believe as the purpose of meaning of life?

Life has no meaning. We only ascribe meaning to it because it is our human nature to see patterns even where there are no patterns.

The best we can do is give our lives meanings ourselves through the one factor that distinguishes us from animals- reasoning.

As arbitrary as that sounds, reason and logic are the only effective tools for understanding our universe and navigating it. A well reasoned life is a better life.

If life truly has no meaning, then all the above is meaningless.

No?

And Atheists are the ones mourning the 47 children?

Foooools!

mumumugu:
am not a satanist or atheist but curious mumu catholic

But I never said you were a satanist or Atheist...

Mzflexydeeva:
italo papi how u dey?

I full ground o...

PastorAIO:
Well, I believe we can all agree that dead saints can pray sha. Good!

So Saints can pray to God and they can carry our prayers to God (Rev 5: but they cannot pray for us (according to vfactor). Imagine such level of reasoning.

PastorAIO:
Forget Celibacy. We have jumped to Saintly intercessions. You have to keep up. This kind of somersaulting is not for the faint hearted.

Lol.