₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Faith has evidence but since some people have taught you otherwise it will be difficult for you to see that Faith comes with EVIDENCE!

Hebrews 11
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for

John 20:29
Jesus said unto him, “Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed

Obviously you don't even read your Bible. Faith is based on what is not factual or evident. The Bible says Yahweh wants those that believe without any evidence. So you should believe the Chosen testimonies even if it seems far-fetched, false and have no facts. Just believe

Kingsempires:
so your point is that the woman met a lion that waved her goodbye is a true in event so my question;

1)was the lion from the zoo
2)is it that the person went to the zoo and Saw Lion with it demonstration that he/she brought the testimony

I guess she was trying to narrate a film

so the woman is the second Moses


nonsense, do is only lord chosen that miracle is happening all this their testimony is it not to bring members that is making them to make all this their dream testimony

But u believe in talking donkeys, snakes, bushes etc. You also believe people lived inside whales, and people mass resurrected from the dead.

Zonefree:
OGSSIANS can relate. You must cut a substantial amount of grass before you register for WAEC. It's the tradition.

Well, the late Iwuanyanwu's son was the first student to break the tradition. His father hired labourers to help him cut grass. Principal wan craze.

So u r an Ogssian? What yr?

CyrusVI:


One has to be mentally dumb and very dishonest to conclude that PBAT isnt and hasnt been doing much

Evidence full everywhere, Proofs full ground, na just these Economic reforms make the whole thing be like this

We are almost there tho. A peep into the future will give you a wide smile

God Bless PBAT

Its not the seriously stupid post I'm worried about, its the cretards that liked your post. Truly, this corntree is doomed

Ken4Christ:
God didn't go to Satan. Read the encounter below;

Job 1:6-12
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and SATAN CAME ALSO AMONG THEM.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. note

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. note

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. SO SATAN WENT FORTH FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD.

Verse 6 says, 'SATAN CAME ALSO AMONG THEM'.
While verse 12 said, 'SO SATAN WENT FORTH FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD'.

So, let's agree on this first before I go further to debunk your other claims.

Whether he came to Satan or Satan came to him, you know the point we made. Stop dancing around it

Ken4Christ:
Response to Point No 1.

First, the communication language of centuries back and now are not the same.

Second, God couldn't stop Satan from afflicting Job because Satan was legally the god of this world. This is why God told Satan, "..all that he hath is in thy power..(Job 1:12).

The only way God could have stopped Satan is if there was a covenant between Him and Job.

Third, it was Job himself who opened the door for attack on his life through fear:

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Digest this one first.

WTF DID I JUST READ?
1. What do you mean the communication language changed? Be explicit
2. So satan is the god of this world and not Yahweh again? I hopes your fellow Christians won't stone you for this heresy. So Yahweh created Satan, gave him power, and lost control over him?
Btw, wasn't is Yahweh that actually told Satan to attack Job? It was clearly written there he taunted Satan to attack Job
3. Which fear? The verse you quoted said that Job was afraid of the future. This is the complete verse
"… have no peace, no quietness;
I have no rest, but only turmoil"

So stop twisting the story to suit your narrative

Aemmyjah:
1. To believe in Jesus is a choice right?
Did everyone believe in him?
Even some who believe in him betrayed him and left him
The Bible said [b]perish or to be destroyed[/b]

2. God did not harden Pharaoh heart as that will make him share in what happened and a sadist. Pharaoh was an arrogant king and blasphemer and wicked and saw himself as a god. Why would he want yield to an invisible God of his semitic slaves? God allowed his heart to be stubborn
Poor Bible translations say God hardened his heart

3. Be reasonable. It was not God's plan in the begining. But he allowed it as was common among the orientals but slaves were never mistreated. If we were to equate it, even your househelp, your nanny, your cook, your drive, your gatekeeper is a slave. The army is a slave, etc


4. God does not torture anyone in hellfire. Hellfire is not a Bible teaching

5. Science says that the universe and life came by chance, or by chaos or by evolution or by mindless process or accident. Religious people believe that life and the universe is a product or the mind. Can anything that came by chaos have a purpose?
God evidence of his existence is clearer than sunlight but blind minded people like you will not see

1. What does the highlighted mean? You have started this… gibberish
2. Every Bible translation EXCEPT your own says Yahweh hardened Pharaoh's mind. By the way, where did your sect translate your Bible from? Also what exactly did your translation say?
3. The difference is this. The slaves advocated in your Bible were abducted from their homes, often beaten, made to work against their will, cannot decide to become free, are not paid etc. Can my maid, cook decide to stop work? Yes. Are they paid ?Yes. Can I beat them without going to prison for assault? Yes. Are soldiers paid? Yes. Were they forced to become soldiers? No
See, all this dancing around you guys are doing, won't help your cause. Even the blind can see u r out of your depth in this one
4. There are many verses of hellfire in the Bible. You can twist it all you want, but its there
5. Science says that the universe and life came by chance, and by evolution. And there are evidences which I have given you several times

Aemmyjah:
Don't be ridiculous
You know the history of Santa Claus

Dont be ridiculous. Many people still believe in Santa Claus.
So please answer my question

StoryHaven:
It doesn't matter I believe or what you believe. Whether I believe in a thing or not it doesn't disprove the existence of what exists.

Argument with an atheist is a frutile effort because his mind is made up even to disagree with facts and truth.

Its a simple question. No need dancing around it.
Lemme repeat.
DO YOU BELIEVE I HAVE A RED DRAGON? Yes or no

adeniyi65:
That is false. You quoted out of context to suit your need. Now take your reasoning cap and read from the beginning of that chapter to its end. It's only 24 verses but I will personally bring the important ones here. The chapter did not say that slave traders are bound for hell. The chapter explained the annihilation of the great city of Babylon through burning of fire. The question we should ask is why did God annihilated them? The answer is down in the last 2 verses. 23 "...By your(Babylon) magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her(Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.” that's the reason while the city is pulled down.




To clear it further, the verse 11-13 you brought where slaves were mentioned was not singlehandedly outlined. It was listed with every other trades carried out in Babylon burning because of God annihilating the city. If you dodge in that verse, that means God is burning those that practice other legal trades as listed there too. Here is the verse 11- 13 again, “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves. you see now that slave is not the subject there. every other trade practiced by Babylon is mentioned. Therefore the chapter has nothing to do with slave traders burning in hell. It's dedicated to babylonians for killing God's prophets, killing holy people, slaughtering people on earth and their magic spell which is leading all their neighboring nations astray.

Very apt explanations
Sirtee15 is dishonest in removing the context of that passage. That's his modus operandi

SIRTee15:
Ok he be like say U are more honest than your colleagues.
U admitted bible spoke against slavery but also spoke for it.
So then we can have a honest debate unlike your dishonest colleagues who tore off pages of the bible they don't like and only want to talk about passages that push their sinister agenda.
They are no different from American slave masters who also removed pages of the bible they dont like;(threatens their slave business)b4 handing it to slaves.

I'm a sincere and open person, a truth seeker. I'm very much open to alternative ideology even if it antagonize my belief. The issue it whoever presenting it must equally be open and sincere.
I didn't find it in adeniyi the monicker who started this thread.

Slavery was very much established in the constitution given to Israelites and very much rampant during early Christian ministry- almost 20% of the Roman population were slaves.
The question we should ask is why was it acceptable then and not now.
I will explain later.

Who gave that constitution?

SIRTee15:
Present your argument or shut up.
Don't waste anybody's time here.
Your friend brought a so called logical argument praising abolitionist for ending slavery but couldn't explain why the same abolitionists used the bible as motivation to end slavery.

Your other colleague jaephonix claimed it was king George that ended slavery but didn't know same person was the head of the church at his time and criticized those who used the bible to justify slavery.
To make things worse, he compared war against slavery to someone beating his wife.

Bunch of illogical jokers claiming atheist. Simple and basic research U won't do.

Una saving grace be internet. None of U can stand me for 5 minutes face to face in any theological argument.

This is the 3rd page of this debate but none of them could answer any of my 2 simple questions.

Its nice when you decide to have tunnel vision and ignore all the glaring evidence in the form of copious Bible verses we have shown you. And you say you can argue in a theological argument? I hope the audience laugh you out of the argument seeing as you keep on dodging evidence that is weighed in against you.
Now u r even using my analogy. When its clearly an analogy, and I doubt u even know what an analogy is, yet u r here vomiting rubbish that u can debate
Empty headed dunderville

StillDtruth:
I believe this is your madness talking for i clearly those bibles are clearly written by devils which every normal and reasonable person knows that it means devils rewrote the bible according to their evil minds but a expectedly a mad person like you will definitely not understand what reasonable people know.

Blah blah blah
See a shrink!

ShoeGetSize:
"Belief without evidence" means superstition.

Christianity is based on Faith, not superstition.

Actually, belief without evidence is faith. Christianity is based on this faith, as explained in Hebrews
Read your Bible, bro

SIRTee15:
This is the most idiotic analogy I have ever seen.
That's why I hate debating U.
Is beating your wife a good cause to start with.

Lol. Obviously the fact that I used the word analogy flew over your head. Maybe u can use the dictionary once in your life.
So check up the meaning and revert.
Okay, for peace to reign, lemme use the analogy of cooking a sweet soup.
A woman cooks sweet soup and tells you its because someone looked at her, thats why she was able to do it
Do you now understand?

StillDtruth:
Clearly you are describing what is happening to you because you have nothing reasonable to say after my response and you just reporting that you have gone mad because you see you have nothing to valid to say on this issue at all.

And the bottomline is that we see God establishing Labour Laws because man needs Labour as a factor of production, contract and employment.

So Yahweh established labor laws for people that have been kidnapped and made to work against their will?
You keep twisting and turning to escape the truth

StillDtruth:
Of course. It is from an evil mind that wicked perversions come from.

And of course devils love changing Truths into a Lie, so.this is expected.

Really? So Yahweh allowed the devil, his own creation to lie in his book, thereby deceiving his people?
By the way, how do you know the lies and the truthful bibles, since there is no standard to compare to?
You see

SIRTee15:
Yapping yapping yapping.
Tell me what God the bible said about the type of slavery the op is talking about- enforced slavery.

Did God approve of kidnapping people and forcing them into slavery.
Would God have approved of the trans Atlantic slave trade and the trans Sahara slave trade. This is the one the op brought up here.

I expected you to read at least one passage out of those I quoted , but you obviously didn't read one, if you did, you would have seen where Yahweh clearly instructed Israelites to raid cities and capture their citizens for slavery, and take their virgins for themselves. That is forced labor and sexual assault same exact thing Boko Haram and other terrorists do. So Yahweh is a terrorist god
Keep dodging the truth

StillDtruth:
Only bibles made by devils say "raid" arid "slaves".

And the bottomline is that we see God establishing Labour Laws because man needs Labour as a factor of production, contract and employment.

You keep on alluding that versions of the Bible is written by the devil. This is not the first time you're making this claim. I'm sure you don't know the implications of that narrative

StillDtruth:
Is there any need to be obtained from idols? No.

Or are you not crying because your politicians steal the communual resources and defile your wives and bethrothed with fornications and adultery?

Wheras, you have need for Labour as a factor of production, contract, service and delivery of goods hence why till the world ends Labour, Employment and Labour Law would always be relevant.

And even as at yesterday you people are still crying out to be slaves employed up to the point that it is now you people who are slave trading yourselves to go to foreign lands so that they could inslave you.

https://www.nairaland.com/8221937/nigerias-unemployment-rate-rises-5.3#132146738

So clearly, you have nothing reasonable to say .

Wtf are you talking about? Looks like your psychosis has kicked in again
You mumble rubbish when a case against you is bad, in a bid to slip off. I can see through your bullshit, psycho

SIRTee15:
Seriously U not making sense. What has alcohol and beating your wife got to do with the bible.
U comparing a good cause with someone beating his wife.

Mr Man, if U don't have answer to my question, keep quiet or at best read my answer. I already replied.

IF BIBLE CONDONE SLAVERY, WHY WERE THE ABOLITIONISTS MOTIVATED BY THE SAME BIBLE.

Since you have a brain of a 5 yo and don't understand the analogy, lemme break it down.
A man(Lincoln) said he beat his wife(abolition of slavery) after he took water(read the bible) even though water is not alcoholic (the Bible doesn't hate slavery)
Do you need more explanation, Junior?

SIRTee15:
Philemon is a book in the bible. It doesn't matter the number of chapters!!!

You expect me to read the whole book of Philemon in a bid to hunt down the verse that is anti-slavery?

SIRTee15:
Book of philemon

the whole book or chapter?

SIRTee15:
So then why did he mention the bible motivated him.
That's the question I've been asking all U and I can't get any response.

Abolitionists claimed they were motivated by the bible. Why the bible if it condones slavery.

Anyway I already answered the question.
Check my other posts.

Lol 😆
If someone said he beat his wife up and it was the water he took that intoxicated him, would you believe him? Especially if the said water has been tested for alcohol and none found?
That is the point you're making. The Bible was at most soft on slavery, but hard on other sins, even listed them in his 10 commandments

SIRTee15:
adeniyi65 and Lucifyre

U now see why the slave masters in America had to give a different bible to the slaves.
because if the slaves were given the REAL BIBLE, they will know that they were being enslaved against their will and the bible condemned such practice.
If anything bible commands such slave masters to be killed and sent straight to hell. Anyone who forces someone into slavery should be killed.
This will provide the slaves a justifiable and valid reason to rebel against their present status.

When Haitian slaves successfully rebelled, they killed their slaves masters who enslaved them against their will.
The American counterparts realise this and quickly produce an alternate bible for their own slaves and removed evidence that could be used against them from the bible.

So this issue has been thrashed. It's let for U just to embrace the truth or reject it.

Now what does the bible say about those who choose to enter slavery voluntarily. I will explain later.

Where is this 'real Bible' you have been masturbating about since?

SIRTee15:
Since adeniyi65 and his advocate Lucifyre failed to answer my question, I will provide the answer.
Where did the abolitionist receive the inspiration to end slavery- THE BIBLE

The bible makes it clear SLAVE TRADE is evil and rightfully condemned it.


APOSTLE PAUL BANNED SLAVE TRADERS FROM THE CHURCH.

1 Timothy 1
9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

THE BOOK OF REVELATION REVEALS SLAVE TRADERS ARE BOUND FOR HELL.
Revelation 18
When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10 Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
you mighty city of Babylon!
In one hour your doom has come!’

11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves.

GOD INSTRUCTED TO PUT DEATH ANY SLAVE KIDNAPPER OR WHOEVER FORCEFULLY ENSLAVE SOMEONE.
Exodus 21
16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

From the above its pretty clear the whole atlantic slave trade and the transaharan slave trade was evil IN THE EYES OF GOD and all those who partook in it are bound for hell.
100% of slaves taken out of Africa were kidnapped, forcefully enslaved, beaten to submission and traded in open market as cargoes.

BIBLE CONDEMNED IT AND MAKES IT CLEAR ABOVE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE. THE ABOLITIONIST WERE THUS RIGHT TO USE THE BIBLE TO JUSTIFY THE END TO SLAVE TRADE.

adeniyi and Lucifyre, this is the answer u fail to provide.

Now that we know enforced slavery is wrong, what about voluntary slavery- people who choose to be slaves. This is where the issue of bondservant comes in. I will explain later, time to go to work.

1.
Same Paul that made below quotes…

Titus 2:9-10
New International Version
9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive

1 Timothy 6:1-2
New International Version
6 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves

Colossians 3:22-24
New International Version
22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving

In Ephesians 6:5–8, Paul states "Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ".[96] Similar statements regarding obedient slaves can be found in Colossians 3:22–24, 1 Timothy 6:1–2, and Titus 2:9–10.[

2.
There are at least seven passages in the Bible where God is depicted as directly permitting or endorsing slavery. Two of these are in the Law of Moses: God permitted the Israelites to take slaves from conquered peoples permanently, and the Israelites could sell themselves into slavery temporarily to pay off debts (Exod 21:2-11; Lev 25:44-46). The other five passages are in the New Testament, where slavery as a social institution is endorsed and slaves are called to obey their masters “in everything” (Eph 6:5-9; Col 3:22-4:1; 1 Tim 6:1-2; Tit 2:9-10; 1 Pet 2:18-20).

Owning slaves was seen as a sign of God’s blessing (Gen 12:16; 24:35; Isa 14:1-2), and there are literally dozens of passages in the Bible that speak of slavery in passing, without comment. Slavery was simply part of life, and most people saw it as just the way things always were, even the divinely ordained order of things.And yes, in case there is any doubt, this was real slavery: “the slave is the owner’s property” (Exod 21:21). The Law of Moses in particular called for better treatment of fellow Israelites as slaves and poorly treatment of non-Israelite slaves. But slaves could be beaten (Exod 21:20-21; 1 Pet 2:18-20), and slaves could be taken as concubines (Gen 16:3-4; Exod 21:8-11) or even raped without serious consequence (Lev 19:20-22).

StillDtruth:
No, it is not. God's mind and Law already shows that He does not want any evil done at all.

But since man loves doing evil and will always do it, then the best thing is for Him to reduce the amount of evil that an evil man would have done.

For slavery comes out from the fact and natural need that man needs his fellow man to accomplish a thing which is why people employ people and will always need to employ people. What is called Labour and a big factor of of Production!

And you already know that there are good employers and their are evil employers, but no reasonable person would say it is right to wipe out employment because of evil employers.

So God issued what is now known today as Labour Laws to regulate the wickedness which employers can do without having to stop Lawful and good Labour and employment, as you see, employment is another necessary need of man equal to food, clothes and shelter

So this is you seeing God laying down Labour Laws!.

But he said a clear NO to idolatry, fornication, stealing etc. Hr even made 10 commandments about them, listing the punishments for each of them, with death sentence featuring in the punishments, but when it came to slavery he 'reduce the amount of evil that an evil man would have done' according to you.
You apologists should just stop already. Y'all making a bad scenario worse by your predilations

StillDtruth:
And it did not say "raid neighbors for slaves" as you had Lied.

Some Bible passages use raid, some use buy. The takeaway is that Yahweh wants Israelites to pick slaves from their neighbors. EOD

NNTR:
Mark 10:5
But Jesus said to them,
“Because of your hardness of hearts
[your callousness and insensitivity toward your wives and the provision of God]
he wrote you this precept.
(i.e. “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied)

Matthew 19:8
Jesus replied,
“Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts,
but it was not what God had originally intended.

Beloved, just because everybody did/does slavery, didnt/doesnt mean slavery's right nor does it mean that, God had slavery originally intended or planned.

Now, my right honourable gentleman, it will be very, very intellectually dishonest of you, to try to take away the credit from God, that God came on board the slavery scene, by proxy Moses, not to negatively ordain slavery, but to sanitise, humanise and moralise slavery, and all trio undisputedly done with specific and unequivocally reforms

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Where in this post was any anti-slavery posture seen?

SIRTee15:
We are both saying the same thing.
Yank off the pages of the bible u don't like and push an agenda with the rest.
Is that not what adeniyi was trying to do here until he started convulsing on the 2 questions I asked him and couldn't go any further.
He came here and started yarping bible condone slavery conveniently ignoring passages that clearly condemns it including a whole book in the bible dedicated to emancipation of slaves

Dishonest people abound on both sides of every argument.

Since some think slaves are not worth to decide for themselves if slavery is wrong or not if they read the whole bible.
So I guess some dishonest creatures choose to decide for them.

What book was that, and can you quote it

SIRTee15:
I agree with U 100%.
What the slave masters did definitely wasn't Christianity. It was religious fraud.

No Christian will mutilate the bible and them preach from a bible that has only half it's pages intact.
No true Christian will yank off half of the bible pages and then preach from the remaining half.

Slaves masters were not Christians. QED.

Same shit I hear when I accuse Muslims that they are terrorists.
All I hear is those terrorists are not true Muslims.
Classical No True Scotsman Fallacy.
OWN UP YOUR OWN SHIT, BRO

SIRTee15:
THE OPINION OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE HE ENDED SLAVERY IN AMERICA. HE DECLARED THE PROCLAMATION OF EMANCIPATION WHICH CRIMINALISE SLAVERY AND MADE IT ILLEGAL TO TRADE IN SLAVES.

IF U THINK I SHOULD IGNORE THE OPINION OF SUCH INDIVIDUAL AND FOLLOW YOURS, THEN SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN.

WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT MOTIVATED ABRAHAM LINCOLN TO END SLAVERY EVEN IF IT MEANT GOING TO WAR. WHAT BOOK INSPIRED HIM TO FIGHT AGAINST SLAVERY TO THE END.

WE NEED TO KNOW. DONT TELL ME OTHERWISE.

So what motivated Lincoln? His conscience? Please don't say the Bible cos there was nothing written in it that could have made Lincoln change