JessicaRabbit: You do realize that most atheists have better things to do than to sit on their ass all day to engage in eternal rounds of "prove the existence of God" bingo? We have lives, we have careers, and we have Netflix shows to binge. Me personally, I have a work calendar that's more crowded than a wedding reception in Lagos. In past debates, I've taken up to a month to respond to my opponent, not because I was "floored" or "ran away," but because I have priorities. Nevertheless, if you want to dance, we'll dance, but under the following conditions. Logic will be our guide: No logical fallacies, no emotional appeals, no straw men. Also, and this is very important: we must stick to the rules of reason and evidence. Empirical evidence and scientific consensus will be our benchmarks for truth claims. No sentimental arguments, and no unprovoked personal attacks that don't contribute to the discussion in any way, shape or form.
For the sake of fairness and to prevent butthurt or dishonest narratives from being peddled, I would propose that we enlist at least 3 mature, intellectual and objective monikers as our referee and judge. Someone with no stakes in this argument and who can call out fallacies, ensure we stick to the rules, and declare a winner (or a stalemate, if that's where the evidence leads). So, if you're ready to put your argument through the wringer, I'm game. But don't expect any free passes or special treatment. I'm as strict as they come when it comes to upholding the rules of logic and the scientific method.
Please respond accordingly to this post, accepting the aforementioned conditions. If you accept, then give me a mention and I'll proceed to respond to the arguments presented in your OP. Thanks.
Unfortunately getting someone grounded in fallacies and with no stakes, would be difficult. I don't qualify. For some reasons, these theists don't know what fallacies are
Your questions are irrelevant. Except you can't read, you would have noticed that I covered details regarding your questions in my first post. Telling me to go read is the hight of empty pride and hypocrisy. You'll teach me what I already taught you? Or you can't see my talk about natural selection and incremental adaptive changes?
This thread is about establishing the fact that there's a Creator. I'm not here to tell you who the Creator is. Yes, I believe in Evolution but I don't believe that evolution itself was not set in motion by a Creator.
So a thread where I explained how deja vu works is where you floored me? Lol 😆 Ahahahahahahahaha Did you learn that word 'floored' today and maybe want to use it in a sentence? Cos the only thing I saw in that thread was me schooling you on how the brain works. Please how did u floor me? Hahahahahaha And please what did you teach me? Be specific
FxMasterz: How many times would I have to tell you that imperfection does not in anyway disprove the existence of a Creator? If a car has some defects, would that mean the car has no manufacturer?
You said an 'intelligent design'. And I just showed you those 'designs' aren't intelligent at all. So whats your point?
StillDtruth: Boo hoo! Lady, You're fleeing because you now see and know that i will spot every invalid and fallacious argument you ever make and your Lies and deflections and twistings won't ever work on me
What the good lady is tryna say is get some psyche management
FxMasterz: Please you need to cover yourself in shame.
Openly denying what atheists are known for? Atheists argue delay in favour of evolution against Creationism with a tone that suggests that since there's no Creator, then there's no God. Who doesn't know this?
Our argument today is that there's a Creator. Atheists believe that there's no Creator. Do you believe there's a Creator? I'm asking you this question for the umpteenth time tonight.
Evolution doesn't explain how we got here. It simply says we moved from Point A to Point B.And evolution is a proven fact in science. There are even evolutionary biologists. Science is yet to prove anything beyond the Big Bang
FxMasterz: I have used the Eye as an example in my argument above. There are many examples of other complex and purposeful designs in the earth and universe that support the argument for Creationism. Here are a few:
1. DNA and Genetic Code: The intricate structure and function of DNA, as well as the genetic code that dictates protein synthesis, demonstrate remarkable complexity and purposefulness.
2. Cellular Machinery: The inner workings of cells, including molecular motors, pumps, and factories, exhibit remarkable complexity and functional design.
3. Planetary Fine-Tuning: The precise calibration of physical constants and planetary conditions that allow for life on Earth, such as the distance from the Sun and atmospheric composition.
4. The Brain and Nervous System: The human brain's intricate structure, functionality, and ability to process information and generate consciousness.
5. The Immune System: The complex and highly specialized defense mechanisms that protect living organisms from pathogens and diseases.
6. The Water Cycle: The intricate process by which water circulates through the environment, sustaining life and regulating Earth's climate.
7. The Earth's Magnetic Field: The protective shield that deflects harmful solar and cosmic radiation, allowing life to thrive.
8. The Universe's Large-Scale Structure: The organized distribution of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and superclusters, suggesting a purposeful design.
These examples above and several other such examples that we see in the universe further destroy atheism and support the existence of a Creator.
There are so many individual complex and well organized systems working together for a common purpose - to make the world livable for living organisms.
Ok. So those structures and phenomena are interesting… If you suggest they were designed, then you have a problem. The problem is they were poorly designed. The immune system for example attacks some body organs, and there are no fail-safe mechanisms to curtail such attacks. So we end up with autoimmune diseases caused by the body itself. Then you have cellular diseases due to inborn error in metabolism, carcinogenic processes etc. These were products of this 'intelligent design'. Also human birth is a messy process. You have an anus sited about 10cm from the vagina, thus you see a baby popping out and covered with feces. Even the DNA is easily corrupted to code diseases like sickle cell, thalassemia etc. I can go on and on about the errors in this very 'intelligent design' but my point is there is no intelligence in all these
FxMasterz: The Existence of a Creator: A Challenge to Atheists
I had an argument with Jaephoenix a few days ago. He was completely floored and ran away from the discussion. I observed that unlike what used to be the norm, none of his fellow atheists came to his rescue. I have presented the argument in a more organized way and hereby table it as an open challenge to all atheists worldwide.
Now, let's begin:
Atheism posits that complex designs and functionality in the natural world can be explained without the need for a Creator. However, I argue that certain features of the natural world demonstrate intelligent design, purposefulness, and complexity, necessitating the existence of a Creator.
Key Points:
1. Intelligent Design: Complex structures like the eye exhibit intelligent design, with multiple components working together to achieve a specific purpose (sight).
2. Purposefulness: The eye's design serves a clear purpose, unlike natural processes that may create complex but purposeless structures.
3. Complexity: The eye's complexity and functionality cannot be explained by random natural processes alone.
4. Universality: The eye is a common feature across many living organisms, suggesting a deliberate design rather than a random occurrence.
5. Variety: The existence of different types of eyes (e.g., human, insect, octopus) implies a Creator who adapted designs for specific purposes.
6. Creator vs. Intelligent: The argument focuses on the existence of a Creator, not necessarily an intelligent or supernatural one.
7. Natural Processes: While natural processes can create complex structures, they lack purposefulness and intentionality, unlike the eye's design.
8. Emergence: Complex systems can exhibit emergent properties, but these do not necessarily explain the eye's purposeful design.
9. Evolutionary Explanations: Incremental adaptive changes may contribute to the eye's development, but they do not fully account for its complexity and purposefulness.
Conclusion:
The existence of complex, purposeful designs like the eye necessitates the existence of a Creator. This challenges atheistic views that rely solely on natural processes to explain the natural world. While the nature and identity of this Creator are open to discussion, the evidence from intelligent design, purposefulness, and complexity demands consideration of a Creator's role in shaping the world around us.
I know being a theist makes one to be dishonest but you, my friend, have taken this dishonesty to a whole new level. Please can you post the thread you floored me? The last thread we collided was this https://www.nairaland.com/8183255/check-it-98-atheists-poor
And it was on Elon Musk's religion(or non -religion), where we didn't agree which it was. And I didn't run. And no, atheists don't just rush into arguments cos another atheist is there. There are some debates here I just don't fancy, or I'm not interested in, or its too boring. I won't just jump into it cos another atheist is there(especially now I want to start limiting my 'social media out-time') So where did the flooring come into this?
Back to the topic, I wanna ask some questions before I commence. Do you believe in evolution? I highlighted the question so you won't say you didn't see it.
Do you believe a fetus is a complex design? If you do, then who created it?
You talked about the eye. Are you aware it was a simple structure before it gradually evolved into the complex structure we are now using? If you don't know, please read up. I can't teach you everything. Same with many structures in the body. In fact some structures like pineal body, appendix, coccyx have evolved into completely useless structures. Now there exists different types of eyes due to adaptation or evolution, like I pointed above. Example, the dominant preserved group among the early Cambrian arthropods, however, was the trilobites, which were well equipped with compound eyes from their very beginning. Humans didn’t have complex eyes at first. Also can you point out those purposeless designs stemming natural processes ? Also while we are at it, please can you tell us who created such an intelligent, purposeful creator? I mean such complex and powerful creature can't be a product of purposeless natural design(according to your logic)
triplechoice: I will gladly stay off your mention since I don't enjoy engaging those who derive pleasure in being dishonest by pretending not to remember the question they reframed and asked in the page before this one.
Good, ignorant dolt. Since you're so brain dead you cannot remember this question I asked that is fungating in your brain. Take care
Wilgrea7: I wouldn't recommend any agnostic or atheist, or anyone else with a "controversial" opinion on religion, having public discussions in an environment like Nigeria.
Even if the debating theist is civil, there are more than enough nutjobs who are itching to murder in the name of their non-existent god.
It reminds me of the atheist association of Nigeria and how they got relentlessly attacked till they all went into hiding.
It's just sad. Online would be the best
Yeah, even your own family would attack you. If you are broke, then your won don finish. I'm only relevant in my family cos I'm well to do, they remember me when there's a family contribution, or one of my siblings is broke. If I was the one asking,… In the general society, being an atheist is a taboo. I remember when my former boss said in the hospital whatsapp group that atheists aren't welcome. They didn't know I was one. Folks would go out of their way to mistreat and harm you. So yeah, online would be fine
triplechoice: I'm not Aemmmyjah whom you asked "several questions". The initial question you asked, which I even screenshot , and posted here has been read by you .
And just yesterday on the previous page, you reframed it and I have answered again,yet you want to pretend. You're deceiving yourself, not me.
Being evasive is dishonesty.
I'm not being evasive. I have told you I don't know the particular question youre referring to. Please if you have nothing else to say concerning the question , stay off my mention. Thank you
Wilgrea7: Atheism started flirting with me.. i merely flirted back
Nah but seriously.. I've become more comfortable with being called an atheist, as long as people understand what it means.
A lot of people still think atheism claims that a god/gods cannot exist.. which isn't really the case.. so as long as people understand the definition... I'm game
Right. So i officially welcome you to the hellfire club
MaxInDHouse: The highlighted is what you need to ask that's a better way to present the matter. Bad reports will not make most people think straight but just say a "friendly neighbor" and leave religion out of it.
If the same should go with Atheists, Agnostics, Judaists, Hindus, Buddhists, Traditionalists, Muslims and others most people will say "NO" because of bad reports.
Oga, whether friendly or not, folks don't welcome strangers knocking on their doors
Desusi: God bless you my brother. If the dead goitre Carrier and hunchback persons can received instantaneous healing, tell me what else? Jesus is on the throne and alive,still doing wonders
Please where is the videos of the goiter and hunchbacks
Wilgrea7: I would genuinely be interested in seeing how a debate between atheists and theists would look like in Nigeria.. especially online.
If you guys fix something please mention me
The guy was saying I should do it offline. Told him in my line of work, religion weighs in heavily. I may lose patients. So I'd rather do an anonymous online thingy, probably Twitter Spaces, where folks or guest can chip in questions
Wilgrea7: None of the things you said here makes any sense.. so i will ignore it and focus on other things.
Words vs actions was not the point here and you know it. I gave the definition of the word atheism, which describes the lack of belief in a god.
What people say vs what people do was not the point. Stop shifting the goalpost.
If you make a claim and are unwilling to provide more information or clarifications.. then I'm not obliged to take you seriously.
Great work Einstein. Was that the only one of my threads you could find?
What about the one regarding holy books.. or questioning gods.. or the ones involving theists defending their god? You're just cherry picking what suits your narrative.
Also.. if you want to know why i sometimes raise topics about the Abrahamic god, then do yourself a favor and re-read my "why i as an atheist debate religion" thread.
Or you can just keep being dishonest and I'll humor you till I get bored of your antics as usual
Btw, Willy, I thought u r agnostic. Why are you flirting with atheism, my guy?
MaxInDHouse: You can just tactfully say: "i'm busy now maybe some other time"
Do you relate with people around you? Of course you do because that's the reason why God gave you the gift of speech to enjoy talking to people around you.
One thing is certain: You love chatting with neighbors that's why you're always here on Nairaland but it's the topic of discussion that may not interest you not that you don't want to hear about what could lead to happy moments.
So if you feel bored with the presence of some random neighbors coming to say "hello there" it's the condition of your heart at that moment not that you won't like to talk to others at all!
Point of correction: I chat on Nairaland when I'm at work and no patient arrives in the consulting room. I'm not 'always' here. And I don't appreciate strangers knocking on my door or pressing the bell. That sound alone distracts me. So take your distraction elsewhere. Take a poll on Nairaland and ask if folks would welcome a JW on their door.
BrighterSyde: If it can be explained logically, scientifically or socially then it’s not likely a miracle. Even you can take that position and then I lay hands on you, you fall and then wake up running and talking. So what’s the miracle there? Do you want to know what an undisputable miracle will look like? A limb that was cut off by disease or accident restored with verifiable picture of before and after and also done right there on the pulpit in the eyes of the congregation. Have you seen such from any of our big pastors in Nigeria or anywhere in the world?
Samuelson06 what do you think? Have you seen such a miracle before?
Lailai. That one never happen and would not happen. Cos miracles are faked
Glimpsetv: This video has gotten a lot of people talking online. In the video, a supposedly sick man with a twisted mouth and closed eyes was brought in like a mannequin by some men in white. A man in a black suit then laid his hand on him, and the man suddenly fell to the ground. A few moments later, he woke up, spoke, and demonstrated his healing while the people cheered. Well, it's important to know that for anything called fake, there must have been an original.
Let me leave you to watch the full video, drop your thoughts in the comments.
I just wasted my data and time watching rubbish. Look how the man twisted his mouth. And some supposedly smart folks would believe this. If you wanna heal someone, please check amputees
You just found a way to escape after so many back- and- forth.
Why did you not ask me exactly the same question you're now asking before this time?
I never explained anything suggesting that the various forms of oxygen being discussed here aren't of the same element. So , why questioning me about what I never announced to you?
You thought I wanted to challenge or prove you wromg at the very beginning . That was never my intention . I also directed the same explanation to the JW , and I'm sure he later understood me , but you ,no way and now want to turn it into a fight.
My friend. I not here to support the person who wanted to use Oxygen has evidence for spirit. It's not what you think..
Ok then, they're all the same element.
What next? Tell me
I'm waiting
Then I will ask you my own too and hope you reciprocate.
FRANCISTOWN: Exactly. They and their Muslim brothers. I was at Marina one day awaiting a guy fixing my car tyre when one lady came unto me and offered me a winners' chapel leaflet and went like "Jesus is inviting you".
I looked at the lady dead in the eyes with a very cold gaze and politely asked "Who is Jesus?". The next thing she said was "You don't know Jesus?"
I said I don't know him, then the lady left to meet the rest of the team feeling embarrassed. These guys are idiots, they clearly can't receive what they give.
I usually don't have time for those cretards. But the few times I have agreed to engage them, they back off
MaxInDHouse: Everyone loves sharing happy moments with their neighbors most importantly when we chat about how to live peaceful and friendly as well meaning neighbors so it's evildoers around us that makes you and i to start suspecting others. For your information out of 1,000 people you come across in life its 800+ among them who knows you well that often plan evil against you it's less than 200 that are strangers who may think of hurting you and trust me that such ones always feel bad doing so because their conscience will continue to disturb them for hurting you when you never offended them but your own blood relation will do the worst without feeling remorseful.
So stop being afraid of strangers because 98% of them have a free mind with no evil whatsoever against you!
What if I don't want to hear such 'happy moment'? Must you disturb me?
Christianity Etc › Re: This Completely Destroys Atheism and Renders Atheists Speechless by jaephoenix(m): 1:34pm On Aug 23, 2024
