₦airaland Forum

Goke7:
But because as usual just like here in the uk folks are generally ignorant of visas and their requirements and how they truly impact the economy they just lump every immigrant into the same category and blame them for their woes. H1b is one of the most regulated visa category in America and just about a 100,000 scale through yearly for an economy of the size of America. So much lies out there about h1b.

Thanks for shedding more light on this. As we've seen with the UK, when most citizens talk about migration, it's largely embedded with ignorance.

lavida001:
White folks are thesame in uk and America. You don’t want to work, your government brought in people that wants to do the work, you still dey complain say de want to replace you. Has anyone got a link to the great replacement paper they keep hollering about?

Na that replacement theory dey tire them.


We are just living our lives. No one is looking to replicate the replacement of indigenous folks as was the case in Australia e.t.c.

The story of man is that of migration. Change is also inevitable.

Fertility rates and economic productivity are dropping. Yet folks want increasingly more freebies (undersandable) without taxing the very rich. Wish them luck in solving this trilema.

I can only hope Africa begins to flourish just like China did so that most of our resources taken as dearth cheap prices to fund western opulence can have value added to them and be priced correctly.

missjekyll:
.....

These companies will employ a lot of staff and buy materials for these. The staff ll spend their salaries paying tax as they do, tax ll be paid on the materials and services. Voila ,growth!

I m just perking up my ears for the increase in visas for builders. I have a couple of able-bodied relatives in Nigeria who ll be delighted to help.

Hehe.. I can picture Baba Farouk... able-bodied carpenter arriving Heathrow with his hammer to help build great British homes

lavida001:
How are labour going to raise capital to build these houses, don’t we have 20 billion black hole anymore?

It's builders that'd build and there's private capital to support this.

The main issue is curtailing NIMBYs and freeing up regulation

Builders would build so far as they can sell for a good profit (i.e not drop prices). Most builders are sitting on land and not willing to proceed as they're either delaying planning or don't want to cause an oversupply. For the right market, builders would easily find the money to build- private equity, sales e.t.c. After the interest rate hike, many developers curtailed new buildings to the numbers of buyers they had.

On a final note, it's quite funny how quickly things went full circle. Elon wants numbers increased, Vivek wants wider national quotas eliminated. Its clear where this is headed and MAGAs knowing their capitalists well are having none of it.

They said is they want to increase it to 0.1 % of 'top talent'. What percentage is it now- 0.001?

Same Twitter/X and co that have laid off thousands of 'top-talent' workers

I also gather some of that 'top engineering talent' worked on Trumps properties - perhaps as an 'tech receptionist'

The good thing is North America favours family migration and also have citizenship by birth. Can't wait for top 0.1% of engineers, farmers, carers and even hookup staff to arrive. I wish Elon well in this fight

Goke7:
😂 so much for ‘You’re now the media’ and all the ‘protection of free speech’ partygoers. I have always said all those free speech jargons is smooth to talk when the narrative is on your side. The moment it turns against you it will be your turn to go against free speech itself. Good luck to bro Elon o!

Hehe.. Where were MAGAs when he spent billions to buy Twitter and gave Trump a platform after he had been culled from other major media platforms?

President Musk is now threatening to excommunicate the hardcore MAGAs from the republican party. I wish him luck in his war

.

Goodenoch:
...

Vivek and co participated in the denigration of migrants in the name of “objectivity” and “speaking hard truths”, thinking their own status would protect them.

I wish Kemi well- her own supporters are still enduring a B-Jo induced post-Brexit PTSD. She would do well to be guarded in her statements as British politics is much more unforgiving.

For Vivek, its quite sad how his support base who hailed him for 'speaking the truth' are now debasing him. Unlike Elon who is threatening war, he can't even take it up to them. He's rather deleting posts.

Elon has already started curtailing some on Twitter. They should migrate to Truth Social.

You penultimate paragraph is the reason why we need to stop caring about somethings folks think about us. Nobody wants us here. We're here because we're needed. Its also the reason why I'm unapologetic about legal migration- each should do as they see fit.

missjekyll:
...
I like that this is a very public roforofo fight. For the first time, the racists are being brought face to face with the truth namely Immigration is beneficial and indispensable to growth. Hopefully their counterparts over here are listening.

I m going back to reddit leopardeatingfaces thread.

Hehe... Trump has got what he wanted. MAGAs are still in processing mode. I just hope he doesn't do a Boris Johnson/Rishi on MAGAs cos they may not have a Reform to run too


President-elect Trump told The Post Saturday he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.

“I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,” Trump said by phone, referring to the H-1B program, which permits companies to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.

“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times.

Is Starmer running out of ideas or simply seeking varied views? Time would tell.

In addition to regulators (which can manytimes stifle rapid growth), his government needs to send similar letters to independent think-thanks and businesses who are drivers of this growth.

Already home builders are telling him what they need to deliver his 1.5m homes. Imagine the impact of 1.5m new homes in 5 yrs. All the salaries paid to build, council taxes an land, levies on construction, company tax, and most importantly the housing and wealth thatd be generated for would-be occupiers.

We know how the last conservative government engineered growth starting from liberalising certain regulations and selling post-graduate education internationally. Kier is still enjoying some of the dividends of such moves but he needs to work harder.

Goodenoch:
As usual. Same as with the riots here in the UK. I'm sure things are becoming clearer to Vivek and others like him.

This is where critical mass becomes important. They now chorus he's Indian and America is for European migrants. Just typing his name in the search bar brings up alot of abuse.

I wonder how many here actually think Vivek was saying the inconvenient truth.
Hope Kemi is learning- for the inevitable day she's forced to say the 'truth'

Goke7:
True but you see those Latinos no try them o just wait and see when those deportations go start na there yawa go gas 😜

Hehe..
With human nature, sometimes its good to wander in the wilderness. Though Democrats could have gone about their activities better, there's not very much they'd have done to convince folks not to try and 'find out'
Brexit continues to be a good example.

Another banger!

Starmer should listen to those who'd build his 1.5m houses - they need more workers

It's easy to compare and contrast migration policy across the west and also guestimate where one nation could be headed by looking at others.
Canada aimed to build several million homes by 2030 and had to open a special draw for tradesmen. Is UK looking to follow suit?

https://archive.is/1YFCj
https://archive.is/ERUud

Goke7:
This was a campaign rhetoric but alas na wetin dem go use hook Trump be this.

Politics is brutal as you have to say all manner of things to get the required numbers. The MAGA base couldn’t have delivered Trump back to the White House without huge support from other minorities like the Latinos, Arabs and black males. That mandate is not a MAGA mandate but a huge coalition of all varied aligned interests and with Trump aligning with Musk views on the h1b now that tells you it may be a different game now from his first tenure and remember the democrats are there to pick up from any slips as the republicans don’t really have that overwhelming numbers in the congress.

As Trump just has a single tenure- all supporting factions know there's no time to waste.

True- Trump was able to galvanise support across board. However, its the strong financial backers that would determine most decisions. They may simply see the rest as numbers only useful as workers or in an election.

With time, all this would morph more into a class war. With owners of capital subtly favouring migration and workers against it.

Oops!
Green card to those who graduate from U.S colleges from day 1? Fingers crossed.

Did Trump actually say this? Why are MAGAs complaining then? The statement from their oga was clear.

This is not good news for the U.K. if the U.S starts a PSW-esque pathway or something better (bearing in mind they still have citizenship by birth), that would be a big blow to UKs education market. All said we need more competition in the post-graduate education market. Western nations should come forward with their A-game.

Trump gets it.

Donald Trump: “If you graduate from a U.S. college—two-year, four-year, or doctoral—you should automatically get a green card to stay.

Too often, talented grads are forced to leave and start billion-dollar companies in India or China instead of here.

That… pic.twitter.com/ElpR8PFk7h

— Ian Miles Cheong (@ianmiles) December 27, 2024

Goke7:
Am not surprised, that’s what happens in a forced marriage between two strangers. Musk with huge business in China, Una wan run am street? Just like our Brexit folks I hope MAGA has not been played. When they collected huge sums and goodwill from Musk what were they expecting? freebies? o wrong na Dude no gree for anybody.

It all buttressed all we say here that after all the huff and puff reality will always set in. Perhaps they need an independent body too to tell them what the data really says and where things stand but as usual it’s what people want to hear they will hear.

Capitalism is brutal as human greed is predictable.
What's Elon/Vivek asking for- an expansion/reform of the H1B visa or do they just want it to remain in its current form and not be scrapped?

Elon and tech companies would ask for top engineering talent, farmers for top farming talent, hospitals for top medical talent, haulage companies for top driver talent... etc.. hehehe.. MAGAs know how e dey start and arent buying it.

Conservstism tends to promote a free market economy. In decades past they were able to do this without relying on migration as native population and productivity was still growing. There was also lots of low-hanging anti-migrant policies that have mostly since been adopted.

Let's watch and see. Wouldn't be surprised Canada has their own Boris Johnson moment with a new conservative leadership next year.

lavida001:
Vivek and Musk are just social media politicians like their counterpart Farage. No real policy just sensation and emotions.

Vivex is still upcoming but Musk carries clout.
He typifies the American dream. He oversees a string of successful businesses, bought and converted a whole Twitter to a right wing media, he's extremely wealthy and is still pushing to frontiers of science. I'm not his fan but its clear why alot of young people like him. Chap was literally given folks $1m to galvanise support for Trump. Imagine giving folks £500k - £1m to support NF

Take this falout for example though Vivek is a natural born U.S citizen and Elon a south African immigrant, however most of the abuse (sometimes racist) has been focused on Vivek.

Cyberknight:
Watching in 3D.
Let's see what Trump does as that will guide Farage accordingly.
I think that Trump will come in and do some initial gra-gra, pluck some low-hanging fruit, then pay close attention to the business leaders who are telling him in no uncertain terms him to remember that the US functions on the back of low-paid labour.

Finally. Trump is a business man so should be measured in his approach.

Already farmers have started lobbying to exempt illegal farm workers from deportations. Who'd have thought Elon would threaten war to keep the migrant visa pathway open? MAGAs were not expecting this.

Why I keep saying just like Brexit, Farage might be a blessing in disguise afterall. I've looked at Reforms policies and it's quite clear they'd be undone by any attempt to implement their promised freebies. Their low hanging fruut might be extending time to ILR, further increasing fees and blaming migrants.

Musk carry the matter for head.... even to the last drop of his blood..hehe

As Tech bros are looking to protect a pathway for those they'd employ, so also everyday companies including farms go dey reason a way to lobby for those without papers.

Who is witnessing the fistcuffs between the MAGA and DOGE crew?

MAGAs can't believe that so soon after an election, pillars of Trumps win are advocating for migration. Of couse, na small small e dey start. I love capitalism

https://x.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status/1872312139945234507?t=qNvpzVFele9NMm3CLhrT8A&s=19

P.S.
MAGA = traditional Trump supporters i.e far right
DOGE = Department of Government efficiency led by Vivek + Musk i.e Tech Bros

Talking about businesses... encountered this a while back and found it helpful. https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/s/ZEXLQXT9ts

Although not investments, two other advantages worth adding
1. The electric car scheme- nice one as the full cost of the car could be expensible before paying corporation tax. Also need to factor benefit in kind which is a token for electric cars. Of course this may change with time but does demonstrate certain benefits which are usually topical

2. Entrepreneurs relief/Business Asset disposal relief - on closing a business, a nominal tax can be paid

zichien:
I agree. His post lacks substance. Lots of grammar no substance. He is yet to actually explain what his business does. So i am still very skeptic. It reads like one of those top 10 under 10 people, next thing we start to hear stories. He needs to explain it to use like we are 7 year old, without words like ecosystem. Give actionable items. Eg read cyber security.. learn how to use so and so software? Be specific. He employed the students to do what? To answer the phone? As coders? Lol.. I am looking at him with my side eye because I know his type, and where his post is headed to.

I'd have liked to see him continue and give more detail as it seemed he was up to something. 300k go good for my body. Though it crossed my mind, I'd have been disappointed if he ended up selling a course. I'm all for business ownership but appreciate the hurdles most of us face. Most on PSW or those working in care wouldn't be in a position to pitch ideas to venture firms. Even at that, most businesses/start-up by default would fail and would do so within their first 5 yrs.

Building wealth as a immigrant community does take time except if such immigrants arrived as colonisers. Hence the basics of a strong economic footing still largely hold true- good education for kids, getting on the property ladder early, building ones career + venturing out, taking advantage of tax-sheltered wrappers e.g pensions e.t.c. Some small businesses pick up with the right numbers e.g restaurant chains, Afroshops e.t.c

Not against folks aiming large- its very important. I hope to see a top-100 global company founded and largely owned by Nigerians. But we should appreciate everyones contribution and denigrating hardworking folks because they don't live in a top-20 city (whatever that means), have '£300k to take risk' or '£1m to escape poverty' which is downright myopic.

motymop:
you guys are using internet data which is different from real life

to earn 43k pounds in a year as a doctor, you need years of expereince

most doctors especially those from africa and other countries are tied to an agency(who employs them)

They are signed to a contract and these contract can sometimes pay them lower than their expected salaries

so you will meet many foreign born doctors earning lower than a home born doctor in the same field and the same number of years of expereince

You're mostly wrong. I know as I am a doctor.

Most doctors coming from abroad would be fully licensed and would start on a fulltime salary higher than that.

The NHS rightly has a banded pay for reasons of equity. Doctors coming straight from anywhere would be paid same rate as anyone doing the job. The main things that matter are role and years of experience. In some instances, years of foreign experience might also be taken into cognisance to put them on a higher scale than a local graduate doing thesame job (but without same experience)

Most agencies do not offer sponsorships and as such a doctor working adhoc via agencies needs to have a fulltime role except they've been in the country long enough to have a settled status. Also, agency or locums pay much higher than full-time salaried role.

There are a few unscrupulous agencies but these are few and far between.
Also, there are some bottlenecks international graduates might face in the system but they are not of the type you describe.

Ashirioluwa:
The current minimum wage for those whose ages are 21 and over is £11.44.

Therefore, £21 an hour (£43,680 per year) is considered a decent salary in the UK because that's what most skilled workers are making, especially the entry-level ones with 0 to 5 years of experience.

Some pharmacists and senior nurses are in this category because they are making around that amount per year.

Yeah. It's decent and above the median but that person would not class a high earner by virtually any metric.
At the very least, a high-earner would have some income in the higher rate tax band

RayRay06677:
Hope you are feeling it

Yes I am oo and happy for it though I'm on the receving end this time as I'm handling a project back home. The good thing is that most rates have almost merged

It's mainly just the first hurdle. The government needs to bring down inflation quickly. At 33%, a sum of naira loses half of its value in 2yrs plus. When directly exchanging with other economies who have a much lower inflation rate, it's only a matter of time before the naira loses further value except our economy is growing at an alarming rate (which its not).

The government should aim to bring inflation below 12% by the end of their current tenure.

Congrats @Kunleop and @Pretypacy
2 yrs was quick.

Good news to end the year.

Cyberknight:
Increasing taxes is independent of increasing the minimum wage. Similarly, pay in selected industries can be increased without increasing the national minimum wage.

And increasing the NMW itself will not necessarily lead to higher food prices; other factors come into play. For instance Germany is a higher-tax country than the UK but the cost of groceries there is lower than the UK. It's minimum wage has always been higher than that of the UK as well.

The main pay the govt has direct power over is the NMW and public service pay. We've seen how the public sector pay disputes have gone. At 100% debt to gdp- the fund for any further rise has to come from somewhere. Private sector employees (some of who have seen the NMW slowly catch up to their pay) are not willing to pay higher taxes so the civil sevice can be paid more. Also, lower and higher rate payers are not ready to forgo the relatively generous tax free allowance to achieve that. It's been hammered that the tax burden is already at historical high - further increases have to be measured.
How many people are willing to give up their tax free allowance so a consultants base pay could be increased to 200k?

Any 'radical' change has to be gradual and sustained not to upset market forces. The UK minimum wage is higher than that of Germany and theres not much difference between groceries. Also with nominal prices, one has to consider vat, competition e.t.c. The main driver of the economy is also another factor with the UK being largely service driven where costs can filter through quickly.

The simple question is what the deductions were on.

Cos even if this was in the highest tax treshold for someone earning super bucks (which this person is not close to), the deductions would still be much lower.

The payslip owner who is earning £21/hr is not a high earner. That person should cumulatively pay circa 20% of income in tax (both income and national insurance)

Merry Christmas and happy holidays my people- here's to higher highs in the new year

Cyberknight:
They can actually, if they put their minds to it. Nothing actually stops the UK from becoming a sort of Singapore-on-Thames if they so wished - just the political will to do so.

Britain's always had the fantasy that they could continue to have a mix of low[ish] taxes and first-world public services, straddling the ideological gap between the US and western Europe. Increasingly impossible to do in an increasingly financialised economy. The US functions largely on cheap immigrant labour. Healthcare and social care in the UK would break down without constant infusions of people at the lower end willing to work for the pay that's on offer which simply doesn't go very far.

The UK could decide to experiment with the model in most of western Europe, whack up taxes, increase pay, provide better public services, introduce health insurance for the better off, etc., but hasn't, with all the main parties hewing tightly to the status quo and just tinkering around the edges. It was basically the Tories, out of self-interest, who brought in this immigration increase with the aim of keeping wages and taxes low.

Singapore-on-Thames hehe. Stuff they like to tell themselves. With the way PMs are ditched, its difficult for a PM to make needed unpopular decisions and stick to them until the benefits come thru. UK can't tolerate a leader in the mold of Lee Kuan Yew today.

I agree- they're trying to be as capitalist as the U.S while still being as socialist as the Europe.
The 'afford' here is hardly the decision - which frankly is easy. It mainly dealing with whatever the aftermath is while sticking with the initial decision longterm.

Take the NHS for example- when Singapore set up theirs, they made specific decisions to avoid potential flaws of the U.K styled NHS (which wasn't that obvious then)- there is a co-pay/insurance component and while the basics are equalised, the level of care one gets might be dependent on how much is being paid. Result is that they spend about 6% of their gdp on healthcare as against the UK which spends almost 12%. How many Brits would tolerate the Singapore style?. 'Free' items are prone to misuse. Weve seen this even with supermarket carrier bags. We've not even considered higher taxes. Also, increasing taxes simply to increase pay would boomerang except costs of everyday items are kept low which again is the difficult part. If minimum wage overnight became £20, the cost of groceries would easily double.
To me, the easiest of all difficult decisions is getting the rising number if folks (esp young ones) who are NEET (not in employment, education or training) to sustainable levels. Its those same people that would be needed to fill the skill gaps. But we see how the government has dilly-dallied with this given the usual British talk without making firm macroeconomic decisions.

directonpc:
The report kind of shows signs that the recent changes by Rishi will really cut down immigration in the next 5 years. Hopefully, that makes the anti-immigration gang happy.

Hehe... yes, it would, and given the current political climate, the government is unlikely to make significant changes until either the heat settles, labour shortages hit hard, or they start chasing growth.

These things come in ebbs and flows, and, as with most things, it's important to be decisive when a legal opportunity arises. We've seen the peak; we should soon see the lows.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone here.

Hoping for a more vibrant new year