Can't be proven while one is alive, lady. But if you are insistent on proof of this then die and you will see proof. All you have to do is just die.

JeSoul: Prove it- as our 'scienticians' would say.

From eternal life we came and to eternal life we return. There is nothing that can change that. We are merely on a stage acting out plays here, buddy.

Sorry, but these points you put forward are not true. Christianity became a religion when followers were asked to worship and praise a deity in order to gain eternal life that they already possess.

100% all true, plaetton. Well written submission.

plaetton: I am still of the opinion that jesus teachings might have seemed revolutionary to the Judaic traditons, but in a global perspective, even for that era, his teachings were not in any way unique against the prevailing and competing philosophical ideals that were already established by many teachers long before him, and also contemporary to him in other parts of the known world.

This would greatly account for why there is a dearth of written material, other than the religious gospels, on the man jesus and his great socialist revolution in that era by the writers and historical chroniclers of that era.

Ii would be an exageration to say that because his teachings were gaining wide acceptance in Palestine, therefore it was revolutionary.
The teachings of Jesus were mere reminders of age-long philosophical and perhaps, mystical ethos.
There was nothing particularly new or revolutionary about them in the broader sense.
Plato had come and gone, Pythogoras had come and gone, Socrates had come and gone, Buddhaism had firmly established itself, Zoroastrianism was dominant in Persian and elsewhere.

As an analogy, the efcc can be said to revolutionary in the Nigerian context only because it was the first of its kind in Nigeria and will be so in the annals of Nigerian History only because corruption and economic sabotage are endemic in Nigeria.
Whereas, in places like Britain, fighting corruption and jailing people for corruption is nothing new or revolutionary to them.

Not true! There is no power in worship for the one who is doing the worship. But there is a lot of power for the ONE who is being worshiped. The one doing the worship gives up, hands over, submits and transfers his own creative powers to the one he/she is worshiping. The act of worship is nothing more or nothing less than creative energy transfer from one being to another that goes on indefinitely. Energy sucking, if you will.

Only malevolent entities demand worship because in order to perpetrate their malevolence(evil deeds), they need a lot of creative energies which they do not have, so they get them from the worshipers. The more worshipers they have, the more creative power is available to them to suck, the more power they have to perpetrate their evil. Why is this planet awash with wars and evil deeds even though people worship and pray to gods, they know nothing about, to give them peace on earth?

Benevolent entities(positive entities) already have creative powers in abundance (by vitue of their benevolent nature) so they don't need to draw from others via worship. Besides, it does not cost much energy to use creative powers in creating positive things in the universe. Benevolent entities help us humans use our creative powers in making a better, more peaceful, more harmonious world for ourselves to exist in.

Therefore, whenever you are asked to worship an entity, be well assured that that entity is malevolent or evil and is sucking your creative energies from you which will leave you drained and powerless and dependent on that which you worship, as well as, will use the energy which you give it to cause chaos in the world in which you live.

Freethinkers are free to take their thoughts wherever they wish. They see the world from a much broader perspective than being in a religion could ever give them. This does not apply to JWs.

Your own english is even more messed up than the OP's.

CAPTAIN T: ur english is even messed up, how can u find ur place on d surface of the heart, men shun all these believe stuff, if u be leaf, goat go chop u

But you, sir, can imagine GOD as a HE, a MAN, a MALE. That is a self-contradiction. And cosmic energy is anything but inert, man. It is full of life. You don't even know what you are saying here. You don't have a clue.

dattaswami: The absolute God is unimaginable

The absolute God is unimaginable and if you introduce Him in the pure original status, no body can understand anything about Him and even His existence may be doubted. To avoid this danger mediated God can be only introduced and the best medium is cosmic energy. Cosmic energy is not God because it is inert. The soul is not God because it is limited and not omniscient. You have to eliminate every medium by the defects and finally conclude that the absolute God is unimaginable to any soul except Himself as said in Veda(Brahamavit Brahamaiva..). This means that knower of God is God is alone. Gita says that no body other than God knows God (Mamtuveda nakaschana…).
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

But by using the pronoun "HE" you have imagined this god as a MAN, MALE or MASCULINE entity. Could that be because you are a MAN? What if a woman imagined the creator as a SHE, FEMALE or a FEMININE entity just because she is a woman? Would that be okay also?

I put it to you that you do not know what you speak. You keep saying that GOD is not imaginable, that GOD in not a MAN, but you kept referring to GOD as a he every time you write. I think male written religion that you are in has put you in such total confusion that you do not know how to extricate yourself. If you really believe that GOD is neither a MALE, MAN nor MASCULINE, then quit using the masculine pronoun to refer to the CREATOR right now.

dattaswami:

God is unimaginable in the sense He is neither He or She. Just for our understanding purpose God is treated as He. God is unimaginble it means that GOD is not like any created item. We say table, tree etc which are created items and possesses spatial coordinates and can be defined. God is not a created item. He cannot be defined.

The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam… Veda).

But such unimaginable GOd comes to this world in human form that time we can see Him by seeing such God in human form (Son of God) of our time.

Let me expand on your analogy, anony. A man rapes a woman and the judge punishes the rapist when he is caught. But the judge does not stop there. He goes on to punish every male in that city for the negative deed of one man. The judge even goes further to punish every male in that country, on that continent, heck even ion the whole planet for the bad deed of one rapist. Does that make any sense to you? What does that say of that judge? Answer that, anony.

And it gets even better.. The judge now offers himself as his own son to go and die(?) to cleanse the bad deed of the rapist and that of the falsely condemned population of men on the planet. In short, this is so stupid i gotta stop. That is the ludicrous story of the bible god.

Mr_Anony:
Justice and mercy are mutually exclusive: To forgive means to withhold justice.

Let me make this a bit more personal:
If someone rapes your sister and when he comes before a judge, all he has to do is say he is sorry and then he goes scot-free only to rape your sister again and another person's sister and appear before the same judge, say sorry and go scot-free,
then maybe at this point you get fed up and kill the man and when you are brought before the same judge, you say sorry and go free,
then the man's brother takes revenge and kills your mother and appears before the judge, says sorry and goes scot-free.

What does this say of the judge?

What good would this do when everyone have dug their heels in very deeply on both sides?

MacDaddy01: I am thinking of organising a christian debate with a rev. father or some big time pastor in Lagos next year.


Do you guyz think it will be something that people would like to see?

True true.

plaetton: ^^^^^
Jesus can be seen as a revolutionary in the context of Judaism. Without the Roman adoption of Christianity as a state reliogion, and the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church, it is very doubtful that we would have heard of or be discussing Jesus 2000yrs later, especially given the odd fact that he did not himself write any religious or philosophical treatise for posterity.

There is a mechanism that delivers consequences for every action or deeds, positive or negative, of every being existing in this reality already built into this physical existence that works well and sidesteps the necessity of a punishing deity. It is called KARMA. What you sow you reap.

Mr_Anony:
You missed the point of my question. It is not about Adam and Eve. My question is simply: If there was no bad consequences for sin, would sin be wrong generally?

Every mystery school religion, bro. That was where Jesus got his ideas from to begin with. Most, if not all, of the eastern spiritual schools already have these teachings embedded in them long before Jesus. They taught(and still teach) holarchy instead of hierarchical societal structure as the middle-eastern schools from which christian teachings arose do.

The teachings of Jesus is quite quite different from what is taught after he left the scene, that i very much agree on, though. But that his revolutionary teachings were unprecendented in the world is complete falsehood. Perhaps this is so in his own part of the world at that time. That i might agree with.

wirinet:
You made a claim without providing us with any example. Why not give us an example of a prior religion that taught the worship of God by the common man without going through any priest or intermediary. Which other teachings made no distinction between classes, sexes, races in regard of closeness to God.

Please add value to the debate as had been done by others by providing us with concrete examples.

The teaching of direct connection to the creator is hardly a christian revolutionary teaching, hardly. This teaching was being taught around the world by other spiritual schools of thought long long long before the existence of Christianity. Your claim is made out of complete ignorance hence totally untrue. Read history of the world more properly, please.

wirinet: Christianity (teachings of Christ) was supposed to be a social, economic and spiritual revolution. before Christ, philosophy of life centred around exploitative capitalism and despotic monarchy - both socially and religiously. God was at the apex of the herarchy, then you had a pyramid of priest in order of importance until you get to the common man at the base of the pyramid. So for the common man to reach God, he has to go through his local priest or religious leader, who takes his prayers to higher authorities until it gets to the supreme priest who then takes your supplications to God. The governments was also modeled in this way. To reach Caesar, you have to pass through a pyramid of representatives. That was how the pharisees and saduccees were structured.

But Christ's revolutionary teachings knocked down the structure, he teached that you do not need any intermediary to connect to God, that as far as God is concerned, no one is closer to God and everybody is at the same level.

This was a revolutionary teaching never seen before in the history of the world. The religious leaders were in an uproar for fear of losing power, privilege and control. The political leaders were afraid of such revolutionary thinking entering the political sphere: something had to be done to maintain the status quo. The new movement was first brutally suppressed, but when the revolution seemed to powerful to contain, Rome decided to modify, assimilate and adopt it, but in a control manner. Gradually they were able to kill the Christ revolution and build a new pyramid of new heirarchies. This became the new template for the Christian religion. The pope, bishop or G.O is said to be closest to God, while those under him derives authority for the head, while the masses at the base of the pyramid needs to go through the heirachy to get to the G.O to be able to reach God.

That is why I call Christianity the first socialist revolution that never was.

Well haven't you just imagined that which you say is unimaginable? You just imagined the unimaginable as a HE, a masculine, male or a MAN.

dattaswami: Oneness of God of different religions

Every religion says that its God created the entire earth and entire humanity. But, unfortunately there is only one earth containing this humanity. Due to one earth, there must be one God only and hence all the religions are calling the same God by different names. Since the God is unimaginable and nobody can even imagine Him, all the names are indicating that unseen and unimaginable God only.[size=11pt][/size] This unimaginable God is mediated by energy. Such mediated God is also one and the same because energy is also one and the same for all religions. This mediated God is called as Brahman by Hinduism, Jehovah by Christianity and Allah by Islam. The absolute unimaginable God as well as the medium [Energy] are one and the same and hence there is no difference between these three names.

Of course, when the absolute God gets mediated by human bodies, there may be minute difference in the form, culture and language of the external human form as in the case of Krishna of Hinduism, Jesus of Christianity and Mohammad of Islam. Even here the material of the human body is one and the same except slight variation in the external form. From the point of absolute God, here also there is no trace of difference and hence all these three human forms are also one and the same.

This is no prophecy, bro. It is just the logical flow of things. One day age old bullshyte will die and give rise to new ones. The bible BS has been found out and it is about to die and be replaced.

obadiah777: another scoffer fulfilling prophesy.

That is because the biblical scribes of that time knew that in the future the BS written in the bible will finally be seen as that, bullshyte. They knew that in the distant future the human spirit will rise and reject all the lies and the ridiculous in that book. You can bullshyte some people some of the time but you can't bullshyte all the people all the time. That sort of thing. Very perceptive folks those bible scribes.

obadiah777: scripture do say in the last days there will be scoffers. thanks for fulfilling prophesy. now i know we are in the last days

Daddy yahweh, then? Lol!

ijawkid: Even Jesus refused to bear d name PAPA,rather he said we all ncluding HIM have 1 Father.....no other person than YAHWEH......

When I hear religious folks call there pastors and there wives papa and mama or mummy and daddy it gets me so annoyed....

I ask:::::do this people read d bible @ all??

The mechanics of how having to die for the sins of others make things better work is still to be explained by christians. Perhaps that is because it makes no sense to them either and they can't explain it. I am still waiting for some clearance, though.

Very simple to explain. Having giving us life, we gave "him" life by acknowledging "his" existence and maintaining that acknowledgement in our minds where "he" survives and lives. Without this acknowledgement of "his" existence by us, "he" dies, vanishes, disappears, seizes to exist. No praise for him; no worship for him; no name giving to him; no pronoun apportioning to "him"; no "HIM". "He" just won't exist. He dies. Get it?

seriallink: ^^^^ By giving us life, He has given Himself life too? Could you please explain more?

Then he would be a very very poor deity, indeed. A complete loser of a deity who feels he has to be worshiped to have any value. I personally do not believe that the CREATOR is such. Therefore, all deities who demand worship are FAKE.

seriallink: What if His purpose for creating us is to worship Him?

To the true CREATOR, every action of it's creations must be to further evolution at every level possible and the act of worshiping is not, imo, such and act. To the true CREATOR, it's not about itself and it's own EGO, but about the evolution of the all. The true CREATOR is, in my view, an EGO-LESS entity and not the egomaniac on the Judaic, biblical and Koranic scriptures. Nothing is about itself only.

seriallink: Would you still say NO because you feel it's slavery? Thankx for your contribution though

Yes, you did. I firmly believe that the CREATOR is a neutral force of nature that is neither male nor female. Neither is it to be described as masculine nor feminine by nature, and does not belong to any one people. So the only pronoun that best represent such a neutral force of nature, in my view, is "IT".

ijawkid:
Did I just hear u call GOD an it??

I don't do labels apart from the fact that i am a human being just like you.

ijawkid:
What are u??
An agnostic??

I don't know whether that term "perfect" is appropriate here but we once had a vastly more expanded state of being and now we have a dramatically narrower and more limited one, yes.

ijawkid:

And falling state means we had a perfect beginning ,but now imperfect.....

I have explained that already. I do not desire to repeat myself any longer.

ijawkid:

So u cling to the subnatural and natural theory,why u refute the super-natural??...

When i evolve to the natural state that will enable me to levitate naturally, i will. Till then, i am still evolving out of the sub-natural state like everyone else.

ijawkid:

So I wanna ask u.....when are u going to levitate to the NATURAL state of existence since there aint no supernaturals.......

Nope. It is by my own observations and conviction. And Yahweh is just a tribal god of the jews, nothing more. Different tribes the world over have different gods.

ijawkid:
What u believe as I knw is what u've heard 1 scientist or an agnostic say somewhere..mayb a theory propounded by one who definitly doubts the existence of the spirit being called Yahweh.....

Okay.

ijawkid:
I believe in the supernaturals.....

Why worship "him" for giving life? Don't you know that by "his" giving of life, "he" has also given himself life? Should he be worshiping the creations who gave "him" and are still giving "him" life, then? I say nobody has to worship anybody because that is just ego tripping and nothing more. All we need to do, including the creator, is to EVOLVE. That is all that is required of all creations and the creator included, EVOLVE.

Worshiping of any sort or of anything is time wasting endeavor. Unless we want to term natural evolution, both physical and spiritual, as the true worship.

seriallink: I'm a Christ follower but this thing has been bothering me for a while now. Christians believe in the existence of God through faith while Atheists believe God doesn't exist; but my question is, what if God evolved during or after the big s.lam, created universal laws, Angels in Heaven & gave life to the Earth? Doesn't it mean that God is an advanved scientist? If it's true then why not worship Him for giving you life? My Christian brothers & sisters I do not mean to blaspheme God's name & all but comprehensive opinions & clarifications from both Christians & Atheists would be appreciated. Thank you

Did you even understand what i am trying to explain here? I doubt you do. So let me try for the last time. But before i begin, let me disappoint you a lil bit. I am not part of the science vs religion/spiritual dichotomy because i don't believe in dichotomies that excites the religionist/atheist communities. My worldview is holarchical. To me, everything is one. Multiple sides to the same thing. Everything is connected. All is one. Hope that is clear and removes your thinking that you are dealing with a materialist atheist 'cos you are not.

I am not denying that those events that you term as miracles don't exist or happen. What i am saying here is that they are NATURAL OCCURRENCES that follow the laws of the natural universe. The reason why they appear as miracles to us humans is because we, humans, live in a state below the natural state(sub-natural state) and hence, the natural state of existence has become supernatural to us.

Now, there are two states in existence, The NATURAL STATE and the SUB-NATURAL STATE. We humans are existing in a sub-natural state so everything that happens naturally in front of us we think is super-natural and a miracle. There is no such thing as the "super-natural". The sub-natural state we humans find ourselves us term makes every natural events as super-natural and miracles.

God is a natural entity not supernatural one and everything it does is natural. When we humans, with our science, have evolved high enough to leave the subnatural state of existence and return back to the natural state of being that we once were in, we would be able to understand and resonate better with the creator. But right now, we understand very little about the creator and the nature of reality we live in because of the sub-natural state of our existence.

Didn't the bible also mention the sub-natural state we humans live in by the term "FALLING STATE"? From what state did we fall? Ask yourself that question. When we do finally return back to our true natural state, to us, there will be no more miracles but natural occurrences.

ijawkid:

Soon u'll know..

No need tryin to convince u..

Soon my bro

I hope ur also carrying out ur own experiments to refute d fact miracles did. And do happen.......

It will take science forever to find answers to perplexing happenings.......

And its only one who does believe there is a God who performs miracles that can live forever to learn about it......

There are no miracles, mate. Just unknown scientific phenomena. The less you know scientifically the more phenomena you term as "miracles". The more you know, the less phenomena you will term as "miracles". That is how things work. Every phenomenon is a scientifically supported natural occurrence. The only reason why it will be seen as a miracle is simply because the human scientific knowledge haven't reach that level yet to explain them away properly. Even a man/woman levitating in the air, for example, is no miracle. It is just an occurrence that we have no explanation for because we do not yet possess the required level of scientific knowledge to do so. Simples.

ijawkid: Any1 who denies miracles don't happen and exist isn't a realist.........

You are talking about nuts and bolts science, mate. That is what is taught in schools and higher institutions. There is far more to science than the nuts and bolts Newtonian science that you have been taught..

joe4christ:

Are u kidding me? For how can u identify this belief with science when we all know that science refute the existance of any spiritual force, world or existance, including the existance of any terristerial body.
Even the founding fathers of science would'nt want to be associated with your assertion...

And as soon as you finished describing God as not being a HE or a SHE you go ahead and still describe the creator with the same masculine pronoun that you say the CREATOR can't be described with. You are confused just like all the other fellow religionists. If God is neither he nor she why are you still using the HE pronoun to refer to the CREATOR,then?

If GOD is indescribable and/or unimaginable as you said, then the pronoun IT is what is most suitable for such an entity not HE or SHE. Because IT maintains the CREATOR'S neutrality as an entity.

dattaswami:

God is unimaginable, GOd is neitgher He or She. You cannot define Him. He is beyond creation. Any created item in this world can be defined using spatical coordinates. But GOd is not like that God has no spatial coordinates, and no body can define Him but He exists. He comes to this world in Human form by entering a devoted soul called Son of God. By seeing such alive Son of God of your time you have seen the invisible unimaginable GOd in Him. This is the only way to see God. Once you meet the present Son of GOd you have met the very invisible God.

God has nothing to do with religions being made unintelligible. That was the handiwork of man and man alone. And that was purposefully done to keep the believers confused and split apart amongst themselves to cause the chaos we see today in the religious communities worldwide. Divide and conquer, that sort of thing.

The OP: Thoughts,opinions.

Of course there is science behind all the so-called miracles. Everything is science but we always think that we know all that is needed to know about science. That is our problem. We think we know how science should be. We don't. There is far more to science than what we know now. Far far more.

diluminati: we cant deny there have been some events we may have termed miracles because they happen out of the ordinary, events we dont understand. Apart from miracles there are also some voodoo and juju events like the infamous odeshi - bulletproof. i'm asking all these miracles, there must be some science behind it, maybe we havent understood it yet or found it out. do you agree?

The CREATOR has never ever hindered science which is just a method of investigating the world around us humans. It is the ignorance and the prejudice of men of religion who seek to own all knowledge that needs to free science.

saintvc: D question shud b HAS GOD FREED SCIENCE?

Well since you think God is a HE, you must have seen HIM with your own eyes as being a MALE being to think HIM as a
HE. No?

numo86: Hmmmmm$$.......

God cannot be seen with physical eyes....get that....

He is a SPIRIT.....

So... what's the point of the Christian religion, then?

vislabraye: Religion is the way of man to God.
Xtianity is not a religion. Going to church on Sunday is not what makes a person a "christian" (God did not call his followers christians). Its the lifestyle ie Godliness.
God won't defend what he didn't create.