₦airaland Forum

rvp2018:
I know subliminally you blame the black ANC for South Africa mess. South Africa can grow as fast it did before but is that growth broad base; or you'll have 10% white population owning 90% of the country wealth.

We don't just need growth - we need a broad-based growth that lift many out of poverty by creating jobs and improving well-being of everyone including poor rural south africans who need motorbikes like yesterday.

Again refer to LATAM versus East Asia.

I don't subliminally blame "black" ANC.... I 100% fully blame the ANC.

No evidence that motorcycles would lift SAns out of poverty..... What will 100% lift SA out of poverty is fixing Eskom(and expansion of IPPs) and implementing policies that will grow the economy and create jobs... Simple.

There is only one pro poor policy that actually works and that is the policy that creates jobs.... Minimum wage, BEE, AA ect ect don't work.

rvp20182:
You need a peer reviewed academic paper demonstrating the obvious benefits of vehicles.You may have roads but you don't have enough vehicles for them.. enough to serve your transportation needs..if you did..you won't be trapped in middle class but would be accelerating to becoming a developed country

where is your evidence that our economy is not growing because we don't have motorcycles?........ We just going to ignore the real problem which is corruption and Eskom?

AskiaHarem:
What part of a “legitimate description on their fact collecting method along with the algorithm they choose to run them through”. don’t you understand Troglodyte? You know I hate repeating myself.

Absolutely none of the requirements I asked for was in the link you provided clown try again; but this time without your clown nose please.

then you never even clicked on the link...besides the economist impact is a well known and reputable organisation on the subject, I don't have to post their collecting methods, the onus is on you to do so if you disagree with their ranking.

The above is just you Typically trying to dismiss the facts because it hurts your feelings

rvp2018:
Do you consider the a million or a half million jobs created by motorcycle riders in kenya transporting people and goods economic growth and jobs?
https://metropoltv.co.ke/2022/03/14/how-greatly-boda-boda-riders-have-contributed-to-kenyas-gdp/

Or what is your idea of jobs. These motor cycle riders makes at average 10 dollars per day...that is 250 dollar a month if they work 25 days a month..

Most factory jobs dont pay 250 dollars a month. In Ethiopia they pay even 50 dollars a month - in some places - even 25 dollars.

And ask yourself how long will it take to create a million factory jobs ? Maybe 20yrs.

why are you avoiding answering my questions?

And again, there is no evidence that motorcycles will increase economic activity in a country such as SA with a huge road network and massive public transport industry.

rvp2018:
I always use the latin phrase ceteris paribus in my prediction.
South Africa have to think about it's income inequality beyond useless ANC BEE - or Malema dangerous rhetorics.
Motorbikes I insist is one such policy that should encourage south africa poor to become mobile.

Personally, I don't know how to drive a motorcycle - I ride bicycles sometimes - but I know the poor love them.

South Africa and other africa gov have to PRIORITIZE PRO POOR policies - from transport to finance to tourism to name it

I don't care about Latin America or how its similar to SA... I'm asking how can you say no one can predict the future except for you?

Bru... You are to fixated on motorcycle at the moment... There is absolutely 0 evidence to suggest that more motorcycles would make any difference in the SAn economy.

We don't need more pro poor policies, we need policies that create economic growth and job creation supported by a strong education system ... Very simple concept that most politicians don't understand

rvp2018:
I am telling your motor bikes have been revolution in kenya even amongst the few hunters and gatherers. That is why their numbers have shot from mere 6,000 in 2008 to now 2,500,000. What kind of growth is that. From 6K to 2.5m. EXPONENTIAL? Last year we added 0.35m bikes. This year I bet 0.4m. These motor bikes are transforming people lives..especially the poor.

In another two years - we will be adding a million annually - and hopefully we can get to even 15 million motor bikes - meaning at leasy one in every family by 2030.

that's all very nice

rvp2018:
1) There is no formulae for any projection or prediction. Nobody can predict tomorrow. Tomorrow kenya might discover some crazy minerals and become very rich. And so may South Africa.

2) It goes without saying that motor cycles are more efficient than any public transport - at least as last mile. That is why they are catching fire in east africa and are crazy in Asia.

3) No they dont choose to be poor. They would love to own custom made sprinter like you and go everywhere anywhere.

4. South Africa gov has failed its poor by promoting elitist model of development. You're okay driving BMW 500C motor bike with your 5000CC SUV hunting. They are not okay.

5. And they will resort to killing, maiming, raping and robing you.

6. It upon you to realize you cannot continue like this - leaving millions poor and destitute - and declaring Malema a mad man.

1. Another monumentally hypocritical statement from you, first you say Kenya Will overtake SA by 2030 100% now you say nobody can predict the future? So what is it then? How come you can predict the future but the IMF, WB, PWC can't?

2. They are also astronomically more dangerous, also no data to back up that claim wrt South Africa

3. Of course they would, I would love to own a bugatti.... Unfortunately the world don't work like that.

4. Cheap bikes are readily available, nobody is stopping people from buying them.

5. Cool story bru....

6. What's Kenya's excuse?

rvp2018:
So daily groceries - they can't - they have to wait for make or break monthly shopping. Look like your road network and your economy vibrancy needs lot of work.

Yes, and nothing to do with the road network, the fact that paved roads exists in such remote places is testament to our transport infrastructure which is ranked 33rd in the world.

My bru there are Kenyans that still need to hunt for food to survive that's how far away they are from any infrastructure in your country ....and you want to say that only being able to go to the shop once a month means our transport efficency needs work? You good bro?

rvp2018:
1. As for long argument - just go back to Kenya 10yrs ago - South Africa 10yrs ago - you answer lies there. Dont engage in maths your protein lacking body cannot digest. You rather hunt for wild pigs.

2.Anyway, economies grow fast when they figure out how to make people more productive. Literally the velocity of money is directly related to mobility directly related to growth in gdp.

3.You may want your rural population moving a lot faster and a lot more than they are doing so they can contribute. Economy is about exchanging money very fast. That is the trick. It's about efficiency and productivity. Produce more and efficiently exchange.

1. Not how growth projections work...but what ever makes you sleep at night

2. OK and? Some countries use more motorcycles than others, others use more public transport... Very simple

3. People live like that out of choice, those that don't move to the city

rvp2018:
Okay let me just process this. Shops in rural south africa are 50-80km away - are we serious here?

Yes I'm serious, there might be small tuck shops and convenience stores but not places where you can legit do a months shopping

rvp2018:
1) Give the same choice to poor - to want or need a vehicle - and that mean south africa gov encourages the ownership of dirty cheap motorbikes. I dont think it has done enough on that front.

2) Taiwan is developed and has world class public trasport system - yet there is space for motor bikes - even Europe with its development has space for motor bikes. You cannot find easy replacemtn for motorbikes esp for last mile. The train or bus or van will never drop you in your house. It either a personal car or motor bike or bicycle.

3) The poor are poor exactly for that - they cant shop as frequently as they want - they have to do it monthly - they cant visit people as much as they want - heck they cant even go have beer in local market because it's far - they cant even go to hospital as much as they want - because transport is expensive or not convenient or not available. They remain poor. They literally have no economic mobility. Now imagine if they own small 50 cc motorbike that can take them to pretty much everywhere very very cheaply. They can shop daily. They can drink daily. They can take their farm produce to market daily. They can go hospital daily if need be. They are able to move almost any minute anyhow cheaply. These plus stuff like mobile money increase the velocity of money leading to economic growth...the bar is able to restock daily, brewery can brew daily...etc,

4) Kenya has grown compared to many other Africa countries - you say it's midget - yet as we speak it only 1/3 less than south africa in gdp per capita. I think Boer you're struggling to keep up with facts.

5.The facts are clear - kenya is pulling almost 7% economic growth - that mean it will definitely double it GDP and GDP per capita to 4,000 in a decade - reaching South Africa level in 2030 (Upper middle income). South Africa by their own ministry of treasury projection is to growing btw 0-1% for the medium term - meaning it remain there - as pop growth is 0-1% - if we dont factor illegal immigrants. If we add 10M illegal immigrants - South Africa population is 70m...South Africa gdp per capita...drops to 6,000 usd.

6. Now you are about to understand why South Africa is going nowhere while Asia countries are moving to developed world.

Africa has two models to copy - LATAM model aka south africa - latin america - or the South or East Asian model.

LATAM (Latin America) - end results middle class trap, income inequality, drugs, crime, hopelessness. Asian model - end results is to become developed in great numbers..as economic growth is BROAD, and nobody is left behind. LATAM...growth become uneven...leading to South Africa, Brazil, Mexico...few super rich...and many poor people resort to crime and drugs.

1) I want to own a private jet....but I can't, people buy what they need and what they can afford....if they wanted to they can buy a dirt cheap bike... But why would they? Its a waste of money because they don't need it.

2. There are near 300 000 min minibus taxis, 60 000 ubers/bolt, 20 000 meter taxis......we don't need bikes for public transport..

3) it's not about "wants" it's about "needs" ......tell me how a little 50cc bike is going to travel 50-80km(one way) to the nearest shop everyday? Remember we are talking rural!! There are no shops or clinics nearby, you can't go shopping every day because it isn't economically feasible, you also can't buy a bike because you might need to go to the clinic 2-3 times a year? How are you going to visit your friends and ride around town when the nearest fuel station is 80km away?

4) 1/3 is massive...... SA is 300% bigger.... We done the math, we already know you ain't catching SA gdp wise in our lifetime.....and most likely never catching SA per capita wise.

5) if Kenya grew by 6% and SA stood completely still it would take Kenya 22 years to reach SA... But let's make it more realistic and say SA continues to grow by 1%.....then it will take Kenya 27 years.... 2023+27 = 2050 and that's for total GDP.... Your population is going to be much bigger than SAs.... So please explain how you are going to reach SA by 2030?

6)your entire argument revolves around the fact if the ANC governs for the foreseeable future.... However they are polling at less than 40%, all experts agree that the ANC will lose the next election....after the ANC is gone, SA will easily grow at 4-5 % within 3 years of the new government taking control.

rvp20182:
1.why do you need a vehicle or vehicles but the poor especially in rural south Africa don't. 2.Taiwan is very developed yet has how many motor bikes.its public transportation beat south Africa senseless.Taipei look like next world compared to Joburg. You actually need evidence that improving transportation services improve economy? Seriously. 2.You also want to convince me that public taxis in rural south Africa beat motorbikes...the same for congested urban streets in slums. 4.You continue mark timming as east Africa economies pull 7 percent growth consistently without minerals probably driven by motorbikes while Asians are lifting billions out poverty.. meanwhile your poor are killing,robbing,raping and maiming the rich because of inequality.Start to think pro poor reforms..you urgently need them.They are not fancy sprinters..heck the public taxi you now tout are mainly illegal gang infested vans

1. I don't need a car,I just want one....see the difference?

2. Taiwan only rank 6 places higher than SA wrt transport infrastructure and all our major cities have much much less congestion than Taiwan cities.... Basically we are close to par with Taiwan

3. Yes....explain to me how a person who needs to go buy the months groceries for an entire family will use a bike to transport those goods... Also remember they live in rural areas, meaning they are far away from any shops and only shop once a month..... Tell me how a bike is better than a taxi for the above person.

4. Kenya has a little midget economy with a massive population.....not even a brain dead president can't manage at least 5-6% growth because those factors

Nemesis4you:
You willing to test the relics potency while being in the cockpit

depends... Am I in a cold war era fighter? Or modern 4+ gen fighter.

... Also im I just regular jl115 or a trained pilot?

rvp2018:
1.I rather listen to data saying 85% of household living in rural south africa do not own any vehicle.
These people lifes would dramatically improve if they owned two-wheel vehicles.
2. I am not convinced any public transport can efficient services such rural population spread over large areas.
3. Also large slum population in urban areas cannot afford to own four wheel vehicles.

4. You must accept that motor bikes have contributed to Asian economic growth.
And we are seeing the same effect in East Africa.

5.I think culture and lack of government incentive/intervention is responsible - because you see it right from Zambia, Zimbwabwe, Malawi - which are poor countries - them drying up. Perhaps East Africa fast growth the last two decades could be linked to motor bikes

I believe Africa should copy Asian - encourage the manufacture and use of two-wheel vehicles - motor bikes - that it's poor people can afford.
This will improve the wellbeing of Africans and finally lead to economic growth - until it reaches a position they can afford four -wheel vehicles.

6.I find this ostracization of two-wheel over four-wheel vehicles based on nothing but useless pride.

1. That's because most people don't need a vehicle...they are self sufficient.

2. South Africa has 800 000km road network, public transport is available even at the remotest villages

3. They don't need to own a car, they can take a taxi which is cheap.

4. You've not posted one source that says Asian economies grew because people ride motorcycles.

5. We have more than sufficient public transport... Bikes are for countries that don't have proper road networks and/or sufficient public transport

6. Its because it isn't needed

rvp2018:
Maybe it culture - maybe South African blacks see motorbikes as white boy thing - akin to US of A.

or maybe like you've been told several times that South Africans just don't need bikes

rvp2018:
https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/south-africa#unit-sales
From the brands - it appears it expensive BMWs - which dominate the market.
Are cheap Asian motor bikes really available.
I am talking bikes less than 150cc.

asian bike are available yes.... And it was R16500 for a 150cc....im pretty sure you could get smaller bikes for even less

rvp2018:
Do you think if motor bikes were dirty cheap in South Africa people will not buy them or not?
South Africa that we know is world most inequal country.
There are very rich people - and very poor people.

bikes are dirt cheap in SA.. You can buy a 150cc for R16500... Which is less than a $1000 and second hand you can even get them for a couple hundred rand

rvp2018:
And those poor people dont deserve to own a vehicle?
It's only the rich who deserve to own cars?
The poor deserve to own a vehicle - and in this case - cheap motorcycle would make their travel and business easy
Therefore South Africa should put incentive to increase motor cycle ownership by those who cannot afford cars.

In kenya there were few motor bikes - until gov decided to zero rate import taxes for any motor bikes of less than 120 cc - the cheap chinese & indians motorbikes became very affordable and poor now owns them. It cost less than 1,000 usd to buy a new one - a second one - some buy with 150usd. This has transformed the lives of the poor while creating a million job - for motor cycle taxis and deliveries.

They don't need a vehicle, if they want they can buy a bike.... There isn't any laws prohibiting anyone from buying a cheap bike.... However for the most part they don't need one.

rvp2018:
Rural unemployment in South Africa is almost 60%. Motor bikes could transform their fortunes like it done in Asia and East Africa. In urban areas - again low income could benefit greatly from motor bikes.

Quick google -

As of 2022, around 18.2 million people in South Africa lived in extreme poverty, with the poverty threshold at 1.90 U.S. dollars daily.

Those 20 million people need close to 5 million motor bikes to provide them cheap and affordable transport - and change their lives.

Most people in rural areas live of subsistence farming and are self sufficient

Poverty figure is 19.6% or 11.7 million people.

In Kenya the poverty figures is over 31%

AskiaHarem:
“but before you do make sure it comes with a legitimate description on there fact collecting method along with the algorithm they choose to run them through”.

You can’t listen to save your life.
Pathetic but predictable.
I gave you a chance to not make a clown of yourself but you applied the makeup anyway.

Now….

That why I included a link...everything you want to know including how the rankings were formulated are on the link

Also facts don't care about your feelings

AskiaHarem:
Funniest crap I’ve read on here today. The nonsense people post on the internet.

I know your going to rage post some graph/photo you dug up from the backwaters of the internet or some western narrative agenda propagating site; but before you do make sure it comes with a legitimate description on there fact collecting method along with the algorithm they choose to run them through.

If you can’t provide that then don’t bother.

Yes because the West cares about Nigeria so much that it wants it to look bad ....... For no particular reason!

Fantastic rebuttal!

But for normal functioning humans here is the index:

https://impact.economist.com/sustainability/project/food-security-index/

rvp20182:
The myth that Russia was at most a military superpower has been shattered.Now they are back to the exact spot they were before the war... behind their own eastern rebels trenches..the rebels they started financing in 2014.At this point Putin stay in power is no longer tenable.His own military will finish him and negotiate.Russia will pay heavy reparations to repair Ukraine and will be lucky to keep Crimea

it boggles my mind that people think the Russian military is even close to the US....in every conflict that Russia has been involved in, it is clear as day that their doctrine isn't close to Western countries.... They have some decent systems but strategically and tactically they are shit.

AskiaHarem:
Lagos, Imota Rice Mill ready to help feed the Continent and beyond.

Nigeria is 107th out of 113th wrt food security... I think its better to say that Mill should feed Nigeria first before we talk about the continent

Obaaderemi2:
You are the one who has been massively shamed here, stupidd liar. What do you gain from lying? I thought you said you were here for the laughs.

bru believe what you like

Obaaderemi2:
Next time don't come here typing lies and half-truths and thinking everyone here is stupidd like you. Once again, this is an open forum.

if you read my first post and understood the context of it, you wouldn't be embarrassing yourself right now.

Obaaderemi2:
Modafvcker, I referred to your first post. That's where the argument started. Not the subsequent ones which were just you being in your dubious element.

next time know your role before sticking your nose in a conversation that 1. You know nothing about and 2. Doesn't concern you.

rvp20182:
yes..it supposed to professional course but in Kenya it taken as vocational skill...many CPA in our time were 20 yr olds.So it's not considered special...maybe CFAs are hard to get..but CPAs are offered in backstreet

CFA is relatively hard but imo CA is much harder although I prefer a CFA since its in line with what i do for a living.... I'm contemplating doing my CFA next year since I've already completed my 3 year work experience in investment management.

rvp20182:
Check KASNEB website for requirements.. before we joined university..we either did CPAs or imis.. international diploma on information systems...CPAs in Kenya is standalone

so I just read, if you want to become an external auditor in Kenya you also need to complete all ASA exams as well as 2 years experience if you are already hold a ICPAK Practising Certificate.... 3 years if you don't.

The above seems to be the equivalent of a CA in South Africa.

I see now where the confusion came

rvp20182:
In Kenya CPA is easy to get...that difference..most CPAs have no other qualifications..my sister is CPA..she didn't even quality to join university..during those days.

sounds sus.... Very sus

PROVERBZ:
What is the white man even doing on this thread ?

the same as a black man on this thread

Obaaderemi2:
You are reta.rd.ed. Your first post was what I quoted. Who's talking about your subsequent posts? You make nonsensical claims and when your bullshit is pointed out, you start twisting things. Do you think you are dealing with babies here?

Bottomline: you don't need an accounting degree or CPA to work in a consulting firm. Ignorant people usually think the only job consulting firms do is auditing. You seem to belong among such.

because it gives context muthafvcker!!!

Also I never said you need an accounting degree or CPA to work in a consulting firm.... I said you need a CPA or CA if you want to be an Auditor

Obaaderemi2:
Stop lying. Attached below was your first comment on the issue.

There's no staying in one's lane here. You talk nonsense, I call you out on it.

and?.... I didn't say my previous post was my first post....

Don't go full ret@rd...never go full ret@rd