₦airaland Forum

GreenandGold:
Exactly, that is why I would not accuse the white US and SA Left of racism.... In fact I do not accuse any white person of racism unless they stand as the Right...



Go read my statement, over and over again, maybe with understanding this time..... if you want me to draw illustrations for you, I could easily do that as well.... maybe, just maybe it would dawn.




Thank you for moving towards the Center..... it's the right direction, for a start...

-You can be on the right and you can be conservative and not be racist....in fact most Africans including SAns are socially Conservative and economically liberal(personally I am more economically Conservative)

- still not dawning on me my bru still don't see how black men who impregnated women and then leave them high and dry today has anything to do with black men working(forced or not) away from home yet still providing for their families 100 years ago.

I've never thought of myself as right or left, my views are based on individuality, equality of opportunity and logic....

GreenandGold:
the Left being dangerous?

Meanwhile the Right...

this is exactly your problem bru, you look at it like a pissing contest between far left and far right...you think because I'm against the far left that I must be pro far right, I'm against all forms of oppression, fascism and Marxism.... Any ideology that exalts the group above the individual is dangerous both on the right and the left

GreenandGold:
You may not need to continue, you definitely do not know what you are talking about... it's a subject foreign to you, you are regurgitating what the Far-Right tells you....



A poor attempt to manipulate the debate into an emotional corner.... stay sober bro



I think you deliberately ignored the social engineering explanation... no one impregnated a woman and vanished, until.....(let's say it out loud) Conservatives forced the African fathers to do that from 1910 until 1991.... So, don't pretend to care about black women raising kids on their own.



What's with the collective guilt now?.... you don't need to apologise bro..




I will repost this cartoon, especially for you....

- oh the irony

- nothing emotional, quite the opposite actually ..... I believe Martin Luther King once said " judge a man on his character and not his skin colour" ... Or something like that,well anyway that's basically how I live my life

Ok so black fathers disappear today because that's what their forefathers did 100 years ago?..... That's some fantastic logic right there my man ...... I must probably do some farming and practice some apartheid because that's what my forefathers did

Your cartoon isn't entirely relevant since I literally stated racism ad racial inequality still exist

GreenandGold:
- You're goal shifting towards the Center to sound moderate..... I see...



- BLM is not an organisation, it's a movement born from the systematic targeted murder of Black-Americans by US Police, even when the victims were not armed.... There is no part where you say "it's bad for the blacks", if you did then we need to inspect your motives, inspect your position in society, and if you say it from the comforts of your "white" suburbia, then we know your motives, we need not to argue with such.

- Systematic racism is not a law, otherwise it would be called "legal racism".... Systematic racism is when racism is practiced without being announced at institutional level, eg, black workers being overlooked in opportunities that are supposed to be for everyone. I will not go into details, you know it well.

You won't discuss it because it doesn't exist, I can probably make a better argument that there is systematic racism against whites since there are literally laws like BEE and AA in South Africa, personally I don't think it has really had an impact on white people but it certainly and ironically led to greater poverty and unemployed under the black community



This was not a father going to town to work for his family, this was a black father being forced from his family to work in the Witwatersrand hundreds of kms from home, forced to stay in a male-only compound, not allowed to see his family for months to years, while white males had access to their families... it forced black mothers to raise kids on their own, it was social engineering meant to destroy the black family who's effects would be felt to this day.... so Conservatives cannot talk about family values and all that rubbish when they went all out to destroy African ones.



- Really? Do you know what open racism does.... in 1991, one of my uncles got a learnership from Sasol to study Mining Engineering at Vaal Triangle College (now Vaal University), literally becoming the first black person to study there .... the open racists tried to get him out of the institution in every possible way with harassments from students and parents. He was nearly killed during practicals, they plotted to kill him using TNT and made it look like an accident....... He left the Varsity.

- I personally don't care if you are secret racist in your heart, it's your choice, you can discuss your racist ideologies under a lappa while listening to Steve Hofmeyer, I don't give a care because I cannot stop you........ however, if you're open about it, stand in my way, then your have become a problem.

-Bru I ain't goal shifting, I'm am telling you my views on the subject.

- BLM is most definitely a organisation with actual leadership structures and ideological views.

Calling for single parent households, defunding of police, CRT, the fact that it's a totally Marxist movement... all are bad for the black community .... I could continue.....

Also I ain't an apologists I will air my opinion and say things as they are...... I don't believe in group identity like you do, hence Im not effected by statements such as "white privilege" and I don't suffer from group guilt or group blame.....if you want to believe you are a victim and I am an oppressor because of my skin colour alone then you do you bro

-you don't want to talk about it because it doesn't exist anymore, in fact I could make a better argument that there is systematic racism against white people since there are actual systems in place like bee and AA that are supposed to favour black people..... However ironically the opposite has happened, BEE and AA has led to the collapse of SOEs(cadre deployment) and led to a rise in racial inequality and unemployment

-You are having an argument with yourself, I never said fathers weren't forced to work away from home, there is a difference between working away from home and sending money back to support your family and fvcking a chick, getting her pregnant and disappearing, you obviously don't understand what is meant by single parent households

-I'm sorry to hear about what your uncle experienced, apartheid was a crime against humanity and is entirely against my views of individuality and equality 9f opportunity

-typical of wokies, when your views are challenged you call the other a racist, the fact is what you said is racially prejudice in itself and by extention you are the racist.... However I'm almost certain you are one of those that believe only white people can be racist.

GreenandGold:
- These are not leftish ideologies... they are human advancement ideologies.... if you as a person gets mad that a "male" person is calling himself a "her" then you have serious problems.... If you as a person in the 21st century have a problem with someone deciding to live with a person of the same sex THEN you have a serious problem.... we are adults now, we worry about paying rent than people who call themselves "it", as it's none of our concern.

- If you utter racist rubbish, you need to be canceled... utter sexist rubbish, you need to be canceled, we don't have time to be entertaining such rubbish in the 21st century.

- Single-parent homes were created by the Conservatives in South Africa... For about 80 years, Black males were forced out from their homes to work in Transvaal and Orange Free State mines without going back home for months and got to the point where the fathers became permanently absent and homes led by mothers generation-after-generation until it became a norm.

- "Defunding Police" is a term created to address social issues in American ghettos...US police get more money than schools or social programs in the ghettos.... if you fund more social programs and schools to address the ghetto decay, you won't need to fund Police with a lot of money, hence "Defunding the Police".

- As for being openly racist and being proud of it.... well, it's disgusting.

- I don't have a problem with adults deciding what they want to wear or how they identify, I've personally employed not less than 3 transgenders at my businesses ... I have a problem with prescribed pronouns like in Canada, I have a problem with children as young as 8 taking hormone(or suppressors) because they supposedly identify as the opposite sex and their parents support this nonsense, I have a problem with biological men competing against biological women in sport, I have a problem with people thinking that I should pretend that there are more than 2 genders, I have a problem with people claiming there is a gender pay gap when in fact their isn't(you are welcome to argue that there is however ill end that debate very quick).

- Yes racist should be cancelled however me saying BLM is a terrible organisation who's ideologies will cause more suffering in the black community in the US isn't racist its a fact(or at worst just my opinion) , me saying there isn't any systematic racism today in the USA or SA for that matter isn't racism(maybe you could argue their is, however Ive yet to see a single law or system that suggests that there is systematic racism today) .... However if I lived in the US I would be cancelled and banned on social media for the above.

- a father going out to work to support his family isn't a single parent household.... A dude fathering a child and disappearing is..... Massive difference!! Also it isn't just black fathers that will be away from home because of work... My father worked abroad for months at a time.

- you can increase social spending without decreasing police funding, gang culture and gang crime is a massive problem that needs to be addressed, you can have as many schools and social programs as you want but none of that will work if crime is still rampant. I would rather say increase police funding to properly train them and get rid of these trigger happy motherfvckers

- never said its something to be proud of, I said at least you know the openly racist people.... Its the closet racists that are the real dangerous ones.

AskiaHarem:
The Far Right-Winger Americans have always been dangerous and down right demonic at times.

True, however they don't control the law, education and media like they used to, in fact it's now the other way around, the left are now in control of all that, and we can see the spread of leftist ideology like, cancel culture, prescribed pronouns, LGBTQ, Defunding of police, single parent homes, CRT ect ect

At least back in the they right wingers were openly racist, todays lefties are much more subtle.

Faithful007:
Liberals? No. Progressives? Yes.

Progressives bring up scary ideas all the time.

I said Leftists not Liberals however Leftists in Africa and Leftists in the US are totally different.....In Africa being on the left is more an economic ideology where as in the US it is also a social ideology.

Socially Africans including myself are conservative.

GreenandGold:
American Right-wing scare propaganda.... very irrelevant to Africa.

To be fair the left wing propaganda has gotten down right dangerous in the US

GreenandGold:
***Agububu opens ChatGTP***

Agububu: Type me a 500-word essay that makes no sense

ChatGTP:

my sides

GreenandGold:
but do you have 7 waterfalls?

I haven't counted

GreenandGold:
What's more glorious than the Big 5, the Drankesburg escarpment, the Lowveld and 7 waterfalls

the only thing we don't have is the bloody ocean.... but it's nothing invading Moza wouldn't fix

We got that though

rvp2018:
That lots of assumption. What we know for sure until ANC loses election, until Eskom is fixed, until whatever else has stalled south africa economy the last 15yrs - all economist agree - that medium term projection for south africa is grim. South Africa own treasury project 1-2 percent growth for next 5yrs - below 2 percent plus pop growth rate.

I am not crossing my fingers that black south africans will let go of their party soon. welcome to africa mr Afrikaan. africa time is the best time. TIA - this is africa. There is no hurry in Africa.

The ANC got 46% in 2021, since then loadshedding has skyrocketed......and you seriously think that the ANC will still win when literally every single poll puts them far under 50%??..........It's not out the realms of possibility that the ANC could even get less than 40% thanks to loadshedding

rvp2018:
Smell the coffee...since 2010...South Africa economy has been dead. I think per capita has been on decline - as pop growth exceeded gdp growth rate.

Sounds like there is strong correlation with Eskom troubles and South Africa economic nosedive.

2010s were lost. Now the 2020s look definitely gone - 2023 - your best bet is 1% --- and I dont see quick resolution to Eskom - so we are looking at medium term - next five years of 0-1%

The above is why you talk nonsense on nairaland and don't do economics for a living....And eskom is a blessing in disguise , it will be the main reason why the ANC will lose next years election and why SOEs will be privatised.

rvp2018:
Do you still believe in PWC projections I bet they never saw Eskom shutting down your economy - after Covid - then Ukraine war.

Load shedding existed since 2008 and Covid and Ukraine war effected everybody, so yes I believe PWC projections to still be accurate.

Also our economy has been much more resilient than economist predicted despite loadshedding

rvp2018:
Yet another misplaced aggression. Your problem is not us - it's Eskom.

Look like we have another lost decade in RSA...and kenya is just merely 5yr to economic take off.

This year - Kenya likely to pull off 6% - South Africa will be lucky not to recess.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2023-01-16-south-africa-has-a-45-chance-of-a-recession-in-2023-economists/

This post is misplaced since I wasn't even talking about South Africa, Kenya or Eskom for that matter.........What this does prove is how obsessed you are with SA

Saddamochieng00:
Rvp and Kikuyu1 have been passing you around like a spliff all these years and you're still talking trash.

A flat earther telling me that a dude that believes in unicorns and another dude that doesn't know how to calculate basic GDP has been passing me like a spliff?? maybe it's just that you ret@rds have been smoking to much spliffs

Shma2023:
NOOOOOOOOO

$64 642 IS NOT IT.

drop your methodology. Let's see how you arrived at that.

70B(1+0.10r)^ 100yrs
964,642, 863, 800,000

The correct answer after it has been compounded should be this, 964,642, 863, 800,000 and not 600T.

But that is not what I wanted to achieve here.

Are you blind, Dyslexic or just ret@rded?

Go back and read my post again and you'll see I literally said the answer is 964642 bn or nine hundred sixty-four trillion six hundred forty-two billion

Saddamochieng00:
Foolish old man. Go feed your butterflies. The only person in here with a clue on anything economics is RVP. The rest of you don't know sh*t. Why not be like me and keep quiet on topics you don't understand.

I've taught RVP so many Econ101 lessons that if he had to pay me he'd be bankrupted

Also when you climbing in a plane to see for yourself that the earth is round?

Saddamochieng00:
Boy you are too pained. It's not our fault that you live in a shanty and didn't have anything to eat for breakfast.

Also not his fault that Kenyans don't understand basic economics

Team SA does it again at Dakar!!

Nassar al attiyah has won his second consecutive Dakar behind the wheel of his Toyota Gazoo South Africa Hilux, this is also his third Dakar title with the team, his first win coming in 2019.

All three Toyota Gazoo racing SA cars finished in the top 5 with Geniel de Villiers in 4th and Henk Lategan in 5th.

Shma2023:
I left because you're extremely obtuse! I am degrading my intelligence just by engaging you.

But if you want me to tolerate you, I can do that.

Lemme introduce another logic.:

GDP growth rate is calculated as follows.
(Final GDP - initial GDP ) ÷ initial GDP
Meaning,( $770B - $70B) ÷ $70B

Work out and give us the growth rate.

If you don't get 10% don't Quote me.

My sides!!!!

AfriqueDuZuid:
It will take approximately 25yrs at 10% per anum to reach $700b....

correct

Shma2023:
If you want to help me, write well. Express yourself with readable English. Embrace a write-up that portrays intelligence.

That being said, You're not entirely spot on. Also, your message is misplaced. I didn't say anything contrary to your train of thought - or unless you were indirectly passing a word for shack man.

Now, lemme school you:
Most Projections are based on the static flow of current trends, Some adjust the trend based on other supporting factors; eg for the economy; trends can be adjusted based on the manufacturing growth rate, or population growth rate. Projection by itself is:
an estimate or forecast of a future situation based on a study of present trends.
Mark the word, STUDY OF PRESENT TRENDS.

Long-term projection is incapable of foreseeing calamities and war. Inflation and hyperinflation are not factored in either; unless the forecast is short-term.

So, if your $70B GDP is growing by 10% each year; then it will be ideal to calculate the growth for 100years with that 10% growth rate - $7B growth yearly - which gives us a rate for 100 years to be $700B; Meaning TZ in the next century will be up there with a whopping $770B GDP.

We cannot overlook Pandemics, calamities, epidemics, wars, and other impromptu occurrences Notwithstanding the statistical trend. Now that makes it hard for any long-term projection to come to pass; making your point to be somehow relevant.

Actually the correct answer is $964 642 Bn(nine hundred sixty-four trillion six hundred forty-two billion) not $770 bn............You forgot that growth rate is compounded.

Stormtrooper11:
Regardless, SA is still the AIDS capital of the world

And Nigeria is the AIDS death capital of the world

Stormtrooper11:
White South African leadership coordinated, organized and laid the foundations of modern south Africa. Labour can be found anywhere but only the ones with the will uses it. The present ANC led government is lucky to have inherited a country with all those infrastructure and industrialization set in place already . Without those, the ANC government won't have had the means to sustain the country and the nation would had plunged into anarchy.

I will list some notable indices like you asked, by listing some achievements of the apartheid government and show you how they've fared under the current dispensation:

1. "Denel SOC Ltd is a South African state-owned aerospace and military technology conglomerate established in 1992. It was created when the manufacturing subsidiaries of Armscor were split off in order for Armscor to become the procurement agency for South African Defence Force (SADF), now known as the South African National Defence Force (SANDF), and the manufacturing divisions were grouped together under Denel as divisions. It is the largest of South Africa's state owned arms companies. The company had been experiencing major financial problems since 2015 and in 2021 it was announced in Parliament that Denel was on the brink of insolvency. The company stated that its woes were due to declining local defence budgets, weakened relationships with key customers and suppliers, the inability to retain or attract skilled personnel, ongoing salary disputes and a Fitch ratings downgrade."

The establishment of Denel sealed South Africa place in the defense world as a major producer of arms. However, as you can see from the write up above, the corporation is declining due to economic downturns and ineffective policies of the ANC government. Its now a shadow of itself.

2. "Eskom Hld SOC Ltd or Eskom is a South African electricity public utility. It was established in 1923 as the Electricity Supply Commission (ESCOM) and was also known by its Afrikaans name Elektrisiteitsvoorsieningskommissie (EVKOM). Eskom represents South Africa in the Southern African Power Pool. The utility is the largest producer of electricity in Africa, and was among the top utilities in the world in terms of generation capacity and sales, but due to the ANC and incompetence has since slipped in both categories."

This energy company which had thrived through the apartheid leadership is facing its worst times of existence, and again due to the ANC mismanagement.

3. The SANDF, formerly the SADF was once a fighting force to be reckoned with in the entire African continent and the world at large but its now fighting for its survival against budgetary cuts by the ANC government. Led by a defense minister , Mrs. Thandi Modise , with clearly no military experience or experience with defense matters, the glaring incompetence of the ANC government is alarming and the ability of the ANC to coordinate south African affairs should be questioned.

Other Major indices that reflects worsening situation in the rainbow nation are;

4. Murder rates during apartheid peaked at 11,000 in the year 1990 however as of present, South Africa has one of the highest murder rate in the world with Cape Town alone having 68.28 homicides per 100,000 people as of 2019 and 19,846 in the entire country according to Statista.
Murder rates has been on the steady increase from the year 1997.

5. The country has one of the highest rates of rape in the world, with some 65,000 rapes and other sexual assaults reported for the year ending in March 2012, or 127.6 per 100,000 people in the country according to the South African Police. These highs had never been reached at the apartheid era and obviously show the high rate of crime condoned by the ANC government.

6. "From 1994 to 2020 South Africa experienced 13,000 farm attacks, during which 2,000 commercial farmers were killed besides others who were injured or wounded. Since 2014 black farmers have also become victims. Residents of farms have a four times greater chance to be murdered than the average South African, and the elderly constitute a large proportion of victims. These crimes against farmers and their black or white staff have gained notable press, given the country's past racial tensions." Fun Fact? This was unpopular and unheard of during the aprtheid era.

7. "Outbreaks of xenophobic violence have become a regular occurrence in South Africa. These acts are perpetrated by the poorest of the poor, and have been ascribed to a combination of socio-economic issues relating to immigration, migration, lack of economic opportunity, and the ineffective administration of these. The 2019 spate of attacks in Gauteng were in part ascribed to premeditated criminality. Hundreds of foreigners had to seek safety, while twelve people were killed and dozens of small businesses belonging to foreigners were looted or completely destroyed." Again, nobody heard of xenophobia during the apartheid.

8. In as much as the ANC government claims to ensure the black people in south Africa achieve first citizens status, however, according to a 2017 government audit, 72 percent of the nation's private farmland is owned by white people, who make up 9 percent of the population. This shows how the "remnants" of the apartheid era is still holding and funding the economy of the country.

My point and Summary.

In as much i hate typing on the internet to debate something irrelevant to me as a Nigerian, the facts must be set. What facts? The facts that South Africa without apartheid or white leadership was gonna be an oversized Malawi. The industrialization and technological advancement won't have been there. Human advancement shouldn't be measured by the volume of melanin they say, but South Africa has proven to be unable to take control of their fate and write their destiny under the ANC leadership.

Today, majority of the black South Africans make up the 33.56 percent unemployment rate and people living below the poverty line, while their natural resources are plundered by white owned diamond mining multi nationals. According to world bank in the year 2022, South Africa is still the world most unequal country . Nothing has changed. It only got worse.

Below are pics on the land ownership and murder rate in SA

So scanning through this post I came across the bolded, now this alone makes me question the validity of your entire post since Modise is a trained soldier with decades of experience.

Then also the land issue, the figure of 72% you are quoting is only for individually owned private agricultural land and does not include land held in trusts or company owned land, in totality Whites only own around 25% of the total land in SA, also Land isn't a major concern for the majority of South Africans, its just used as a political scape goat by the EFF and RET faction of the ANC......Also Im not just saying this but there are polls and statistics to back it up

Stormtrooper11:
What is the range tho? The pzh 2000 actually hit 67km last year with RAP. The Chinese claims the plz 45 has an RAP ammunition with a 100km range even though it is debatable.

This one:

https://defense-update.com/20191127_long_range_artillery.html

Also can't compare the plz 45 with the G6..........the G6 fires a standard shell as far as the PLZ can fire an extended range base bleed

The coolest vid I've seen in a very long time.

Col William Dixon is a living legend:

https://www.facebook.com/100062597106710/videos/3429663550691945/

kabe1:
Pardon, how has liberal policies been beneficial to Nigeria or Africa?

It hasn't....I think that's the point

GreenandGold:
For 40 years now.... Once the longest-range SPG in the world for 30 years, we wrote the doctrine on wheeled artillery.

Below is the Denel T5-52

The G6-52 is still the longest firing 155mm howitzer in the world it set a new record just before covid hit i believe

rvp2018:
Show me rating for quality of education...that put South Africa ahead of kenya outside higher education in few universities

I just did.... Do you want the link?

rvp2018:
Rated by who...your basic education that affect 90 percent of kids...and you're talking about few universities you got..where only 5 percent of students. Your middle class trap is firmly and deeply routed in your poor education.That I can predict with lots of confidence that Kenya will eventually catch up and beat South Africa unless our education as whole fails.

UNDP's Human Development Report, now stop crying.... Only Seychelles and Mauritius ranked higher than SA in Africa and only by 1 spot

rvp2018:
The boarding schools and its unrest are directly linked to high education expectations on poor kids - some of who are mentally stunted anyway.

Canning is now banned - after many serious assault cases - but during our time - the whipping kids endured.

https://workingwiththegrain.com/2018/02/28/better-education-kenyas-history-lesson-for-south-africa/

In the 2007 standardized tests for sixth graders conducted by the Southern (and East?) African Consortium for Monitoring Educational Quality (SACMEQ), Kenya’s average score was 557 points – well above South Africa’s average of 495 points, and only marginally below the Western Cape (the top performing province) score of 560 points; at the poorer 25th percentile, Kenya (with a score of 509 points) outperformed the Western Cape (496 points). These results were achieved notwithstanding higher levels of poverty, average per pupil expenditures which were one fifth of South Africa’s, a cadre of teachers who were no better trained, and (when compared with the Western Cape) a relatively messy bureaucracy.

Once the socio-economic influences on educational outcomes are taken into account, Kenya’s 2007 (and earlier) outperformance is even more remarkable. South Africa is among the countries below and to the right of the 45 degree line in the figure, which underperformed in SACMEQ relative to their socio-economic characteristics. Countries above and to the left of the line are over-achievers; Kenya stands out in the figure as far and away the most over-achieving of the countries participating in the 2007 SACMEQ assessments.

What seems to have made the key difference in Kenya are the ‘softer’ dimensions of governance. Dr. Ben Piper, a seasoned educational specialist, and long-term resident in Nairobi, put it this way:

“What one sees in rural Kenya is an expectation for kids to learn and be able to have basic skills….Exam results are far more readily available in Kenya than other countries in the region. The ‘mean scores’ for the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) and equivalent KCSE at secondary school are posted in every school and over time so that trends can be seen. Head teachers are held accountable for those results to the extent of being paraded around the community if they did well, or literally banned from school and kicked out of the community if they did badly.”

The role of the highly-visible KCPE test is striking, but is not the focus of this piece. Rather, my interest here is on the active engagement of communities.

all this rambling and yet our education system is rated much higher than that of kenya